Weight Challenge:  I like this one.  It's simple and irksome.  For flavor, depending on follower personality the dead weight might be described as extra sets of clothing, booze, books on an obscure topic, etc.

Follower types could include a former noble who lost his/her fortune but still wants to be treated as nobility.  PC must wear a maid/butler outfit in town (it need not be slutty, that's up to the player).  This works well with the weight challenge, carrying a lot of stuff to maintain the noble's status.  PC might have to pay, negotiate, or provide favors to secure the very best room in the inn or the follower will be unhappy.

An obsessive or yandere follower type might want frequent reassurance of your devotion in the form of gifts.  As I'm writing this it sounds a lot like "greedy" but my thought is that it could be more interesting than a simple desire for gold.

Cages in inns seem a bit extreme, and they take up a fair amount of space.  Perhaps sleeping on the floor or on a bedroll would also suffice?  If the follower really doesn't want you to run away, chaining you to the bed seems far simpler than expecting an inn to have a slave cage.  Inns cater to decent folk.  Slaves can sleep on the floor, or in the stable, or in the kennel.

I'm trying to bring back a little of Lozeak's aborted Devious World with the cages.

Putting the cage outside the inn is possible, though it makes determining a "runner" a bit different, but I don't want to over-design that right now, as it's possible I may never get to implement it anyway, but I am moderately serious about it. If that's the path, adding varieties of cage might spice it up a little.

I'm confident that practical rules for running away can be devised, including a way to actually "get free", which would need to be suitably tricky and time consuming that it would be an approach of last resort when you've run up debt beyond all reason - possibly involving a bit of face-crafting so you can dump your old identity.

Something like an obscure androgynous woman who travels from town to town (making her hard to locate) and who will demand you perform various services before she will solve your little problem. I guess it doesn't make sense when all the NPCs still recognize you, but that defect is in vanilla too. I can imagine it being a feature you could only use once per month too, to ensure it doesn't become too convenient if you are good at completing the tasks.

Fleshing out the personality types into specific characters probably no more sophisticated than three drop-downs where you either pick a quirk, or nothing. I can imagine adding more quirks if it were well received.

I also want to make the "boss follower" mod, and this stands in the way of doing that. Will be interesting to see how that works out.

If I can make the prostitution deal meaningfully more fun - for me - than existing prostitution mods that would be a good motivator.

RP is lacking perils and challenges. SWL is kind of bland and doesn't lead anywhere outside an inn, and TDF is more for NPCs than players. DCL is ... cursory ... like a lot of Kimy features it was done well to a point, but never explored beyond the basics. ME ... I guess that might work one day, if you are using SE, and old ME is incompatible with DD in any practical way, so useless with DF.

It looks like there's a good link between many follower types/quirks and some of the deals and games, as in certain quirks cause specific deals to be more likely to be offered.  Or it might make sense to just have a way to mark some deals as favorites for that follower.  You'd still have other ones enabled for variety, but maybe you've got a milk-happy follower who really likes making your breasts grow and frequently offers you a milking deal, while still sometimes offering the other ones.

I'm not familiar with Lozeak's work with Devious World.  It will be interesting to see how that works out; could be fun.  As a thought, to save having to modify inns and nav meshes, perhaps a sleeping cage can be virtual.  When you go to sleep, there's a message about your crawling into a cage under the bed, so there's flavor without having to actually change the inn.

Lozeak used a gibbet type cage and hung it in a spot where it wouldn't cause a problem.

Inte's SD+ Cages demonstrates some sneaky ways to fit cages into areas without creating a nav-mesh problem.

I imagined using a gibbet cage inside. Outside a more conventional cage might do.

There are models for cages that aren't much bigger than a dog carrier, but I doubt I could fit a bedroll in one.

If the situation was that awkward, simply adding a door to a "kennel" area also works. Inside an inn, a trapdoor down to a slave area can fit almost anywhere without impacting navmeshes or taking up space.

IIRC Mia's Lair / Sex Slaves has some trap-door additions like this.

I like a lot of this. Given the allowed/disabled aspect of DF and now DFC, there would be an enormous range of possibilities within the mod. As for primary concepts and new ways to pay the follower, I'd naturally look at a barter system. Soul gems, enchanted objects, gems, etc could all be fair game as they're reasonably common. You can hand-wave inconsistencies through follower manipulation:

"I'm offering you a grand soul gem that contains a giant's soul!"

"I'm not interested in negotiating prices, I said a filled soul gem is worth 200 septims! I don't care what you want for it, I'm offering a fixed price. Still interested?"

The Introductary deal is real cool where the follower is asking much more. but wouldn't be the sex thing to fast as being level 2, especially for being an introductary deal?

Like:

Level 1: Follower asks to wear you specific clothe (a bit skimpy)

Level 2: Follower asks to wear another specific cloth (even more skimpy)

Level 3: Follower asks to wear ultra skimpy clothes (Bikini or skimpier)

Level 4: Follower asks keys

Level 5: Follower asks periodic sex

It feels more progressive.

Anyways definitely looking forward to the updates!!

I was wondering, would it be possible for us (PC) to make deal with the greedy follower to enslave them back too? Like, these greedy bastards charge us with a lot of money, so we could pay them to make deal until there is no way back for them... After all, we spoil them well enough to trap them with their own games, no?

On 2/10/2020 at 4:57 AM, Claire Farron said:

wondering, would it be possible for us (PC) to make deal with the greedy follower to enslave them back too?

That feels like a whole new mod. It could be done in a way that interoperates nicely with DF, so the follower enslavement would be something you installed or didn't.

I probably wouldn't be the person to write such a mod though, as I have only a passing interest in the idea.

I think the temptation would be to try and create some all-encompassing slavery framework, with followers "stealing" the loyalty of your slaves and turning them against you etc, and that sort of thing tends to gets stuck in its own hubris. It would need a light touch to succeed.

On 2/10/2020 at 12:24 AM, Tempy said:

Level 1: Follower asks to wear you specific clothe (a bit skimpy)

Level 2: Follower asks to wear another specific cloth (even more skimpy)

Level 3: Follower asks to wear ultra skimpy clothes (Bikini or skimpier)

Level 4: Follower asks keys

Level 5: Follower asks periodic sex

Maybe three stages of clothes is a bit much in terms of "easy" deals, maybe two though?

The reason I suggest only one, is to leave room to keep it distinct from the whore armor.

If it were simply a "clothes" deal, three stages of clothes makes sense, but it's really more of a "foundation" deal, that sets the stage for the more serious deals that follow.

But putting sex after keys... I guess it could go either way around.

However, the idea is that you quickly consume all these deals to offset follower boredom, so the exact order isn't as critical as it might seem.

There are no other five stage deals in DF now though. There are really only three stage deals. Some have a choice of final stage, so any deal number above 2 is a final stage deal.

The simplicity of three stages per deal has a certain appeal.

How about:

1: clothes

2: keys

Final stage choices (only one will apply at a time)

3: sex, but based on follower quirks there is a preference for (oral, anal, vaginal, solo)

4: minimum contract continually reset while you have this deal (minimum contract only starts to tick down while you don't have this deal)

Maybe make 2/3/4 "modular" so you could get in any order?

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

minimum contract continually reset while you have this deal (minimum contract only starts to tick down while you don't have this deal)

This could almost be its own deal tree. Maybe a "long term contract deal" 

1. agree to a long term contract

2. agree to higher base pay

3. faster boredom decay?

As for the introductory Idea,

-I like the the concept of just a uniform, whether it be "just not armor clothes" or something mildly sexy. 

-start with just "any clothes" and then go to a specific outfit? tavern clothes maybe? somethign simple that just shows the escalating control but doesn't need to be overtly sexual

-I'm not sure I like a 'give away keys deal'.  That kind of just removes a gameplay element.  Searching for/stealing keys is kind of fun. Maybe just make it come last? I guess maybe ultimately it doesn't matter that much since the DF devices aren't really locked on by the locks.

2 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

-I'm not sure I like a 'give away keys deal'.  That kind of just removes a gameplay element.  Searching for/stealing keys is kind of fun. Maybe just make it come last? I guess maybe ultimately it doesn't matter that much since the DF devices aren't really locked on by the locks.

You can still get your keys, just not in the dungeon.

They really are kept safe until you get to a cozy inn, or player home.

DCL can't even blow them up if you aren't carrying them!

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You can still get your keys, just not in the dungeon.

They really are kept safe until you get to a cozy inn, or player home.

DCL can't even blow them up if you aren't carrying them!

I like this idea much better!

I also think this is a great fit for an introductory deal.  Especially if you find some ways to leverage the DF holding the PC's keys. 

-an alternate barter object with the DF

-you encounter a bound girl on the road. The DF asks to use a key/saves them without asking and you/your DF get a reward from the freed girl or you and the bound girl get to put on a show for the DF. Depending on your willpower.

14 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

-you encounter a bound girl on the road. The DF asks to use a key/saves them without asking and you/your DF get a reward from the freed girl or you and the bound girl get to put on a show for the DF. Depending on your willpower.

Maybe if it interacted with the woefully undeveloped Bound Girls idea in DCL...

On 2/12/2020 at 9:43 AM, Lupine00 said:

Maybe three stages of clothes is a bit much in terms of "easy" deals, maybe two though?

The reason I suggest only one, is to leave room to keep it distinct from the whore armor.

If it were simply a "clothes" deal, three stages of clothes makes sense, but it's really more of a "foundation" deal, that sets the stage for the more serious deals that follow.

 

But putting sex after keys... I guess it could go either way around.

 

However, the idea is that you quickly consume all these deals to offset follower boredom, so the exact order isn't as critical as it might seem.

There are no other five stage deals in DF now though. There are really only three stage deals. Some have a choice of final stage, so any deal number above 2 is a final stage deal.

The simplicity of three stages per deal has a certain appeal.

 

How about:

 

1: clothes

2: keys

 

Final stage choices (only one will apply at a time)

3: sex, but based on follower quirks there is a preference for (oral, anal, vaginal, solo)

4: minimum contract continually reset while you have this deal (minimum contract only starts to tick down while you don't have this deal)

 

Maybe make 2/3/4 "modular" so you could get in any order?

That sounds like a neat idea and makes it more exciting to not know which will come. I get your point that the deals will go pretty quickly. But making it like you just said Clothes, Key and then random 3/4 seems optimal, It makes it look like: first owns your clothes, then everything you own, then the PC entirely. I like it!

As noted on the main forum, I intend to add some features so that forced devious followers are more easily acquired at low willpower.

Currently, you can be forced into having a follower if your willpower is extremely low and you wear a collar.

The new features will add:

NPCs that patrol around outside, near shop entrances and market stalls.

Those NPCs will go to the tavern at night, and attempt to sleep in the inn when it's late.

Even moderately low willpower (< 6) will allow those NPCs to trigger force-greet conversations with you - if enabled.

You will also be able to talk with them on purpose.

If you talk with them, there will be a willpower related chance (non-zero even at willpower 5), that they will join as devious followers.

The chance will depend somewhat on your conversation choices.

Currently, I'm thinking that you will be able to disable the force-greets, but if you talk to them on purpose, then you can still trigger the forced following.

If you gain one of these followers, they will set a minimum contract of around a week.

If gold control is enabled, they will force gold-control mode, and give you credit equal to a week of standard fees with no interest.

Their intent is not immediately malicious - they think they are helping you. If you run up a huge debt with them, that's your fault  

That was the first draft of this idea.

I've had some more thoughts on this since then, and am considering adding some NPCs that are a little less helpful.

These NPCs would be slavers, and they would lurk or patrol in wilderness areas.

Slavers near to the player will have a chance to make an approach (force greet) based on:

• player level (higher means less likely)
• devices worn
• body nodes (big breasts => more likely)

If a slaver approaches, they will enter a dialogue, like a bandit toll demand.

Stop there and get down on your knees bitch!

> Back off before I have to hurt you.

> You'll have to take all of us. (If you have followers)

> Bastard. [Kneel reluctantly]

> Yes sir. [Kneel obediently]

If your willpower is < 7, there's a chance that the resist options may be missing.

If your willpower is < 3, even the reluctant option may be missing.

If you resist, and are alone, there is a willpower related chance that there will be a fight (less willpower, fight more likely).

It's a straightforward to the death fight. Any defeat mod you have may kick in as a result. If you wanted to surrender you could have done that already!

If you resist and have followers, there's a much higher chance (all but certain) that the slaver will back off and not fight.

If you are reluctant but surrender, there will be some difference, not sure what yet.

If you surrender, the slaver becomes your DF.

They will automatically enable enslavement mode.

If you have Simple Slavery, you will get a radiant quest to go to Riften.

If you got to Riften quickly enough, you will be sold via SS.

If you delay, your enslavement debt will increase.

If you don't have SS (or just anyway), you can beg any potential DF to buy you. The slaver will sell you without question.

This will be possible even if you have SS and are supposed to go to Riften. In this case enslavement debt will increase until you are sold, so getting sold quickly is best.

This is a highly hazardous encounter if you're in devices and alone.

If you have followers, you will usually be able to ignore it, unless you are in a lot of devices.

In that case, the followers may opt to sell you to the slaver if you are helpless or your willpower is low!

I'm not sure yet whether the slaver functionality will be done in an add-on mod. It might.

I might build it on top of Hydra's Slave Girls as a patch for that (you would need DFC and SG by Hydragorgon).

I don't know the rights situation for Slave Girls, otherwise I'd just made a continuation of it.

I think I can do a hack for defeat mods, so if the slaver rapes you, after the rape, enslavement will kick in.

I really don't know how that would work with DiD, but DCL and Defeat should be fine.

A lot of these seem to hinge on you having low willpower but not a follower.  Are there going to be enough ways to lose willpower to make these low willpower event relevant?

SLS has bumping and some dialogue that hits your resistance/willpower

STA I've never used but I think that has a lot

Even DF I'm not 100% sure all the willpower hitters, does just having devices on drain willpower? Even that doesn't seem like much to rely on as without a DF how are you getting put in these devices?  I always use DCL, but does this make it kind of non-optional?

Of the two ideas I think I am more excited for the slavers.  Skyrim needs more stuff wandering around the roadways.  The Taverns get a little bit overcrowded at times betwen the regular npcs, guards, bound girls and so on.  I'm not too keen on simple slavery as a mod, but I like the idea of "begging" a new follower to buy you.  One of my biggest concerns with with forced followers and slavers in general is the problem of "I don't find this NPC attractive."  I think the begging for purchase idea is a good work around where the player essentialy get's to still pick the follower but it still feels slavery-y.

If anything maybe you should consider making your followers also just wandering the roadways.  I had a great experience the other day where a "mercenary" wandering NPC charged in to join a battle I was having with some bandits. I was fighting the four bandits then suddenly a few fireballs went off killing the bandits and in walked the mercenary.  What a great forced follower that would have been. "hey it looked like you needed help with those bandits, good thing I came along"

Maybe an option for "forced" followers it to make them a little more rewarding in some ways? Go for a forced/baited approach rather than just forced.  Come up with a assortment of hiring bonuses for the player to encourage them to take the DF's steeper starting contract.

-Free me from a device

-offer better amounts/rates on gold control

-gift me items

Maybe some of these bonuses are locked behind the high willpower dialogue? or even the low willpower dialogue?

I really really like the body node/breast size attracting slavers (maybe it should attract followers too?).  Would it be possible to make this detect YPS fashion as well?

With all the recent changes to WP I really feel like I have hit a nice balance, I wake up in the morning usually feeling pretty good about myself, and for the most part by the end of the day my WP is tanked or near tanked. ?

So now all I need is more things to be impacted by my will power. 

1 hour ago, Corsayr said:

With all the recent changes to WP I really feel like I have hit a nice balance, I wake up in the morning usually feeling pretty good about myself, and for the most part by the end of the day my WP is tanked or near tanked. ?

 

So now all I need is more things to be impacted by my will power. 

WHAT?

Aren't you suffering from STA and SLS enough? ?

(That was a rhetorical question ?)

On 2/26/2020 at 2:42 PM, Corsayr said:

So now all I need is more things to be impacted by my will power. 

I feel the same.

Tainted Potion - A different potion game

I might be inspired to add this as a game in DFC. Will see... It quite easy, so I might do it early on. OTOH, the other forced follower effects would be more useful in my own game.

As this is a harsh, game disrupting event, that occurs somewhat randomly in a dungeon setting, it is disabled by default in the MCM, and requires the follower to exceed a (secret) boredom threshold.

It will never occur twice for the same follower.

It provides an incentive to keep follower boredom down, so you are safe from it.

It has the benefit of resetting follower boredom completely.

@Crota proposed a fun "Troubles of Heroine" style scenario on the SLS dev blog:
 

I'm thinking of how it could work as a DFC game...

Triggered by sufficient follower boredom, when using a potion in combat...

Text appears:

That last potion tasted off. You feel dizzy but manage to remain standing.

(Slightly blurry image-space added).

Follower says, "You don't look well. Did somebody spike your potion?"

Quest Objective Appears:

"Find a Cure for the Tainted Potion"

You can talk to the follower and ask about the potion.

"Why did you mention my potion? What do you know?"

> "I've heard that that some tricksters will add something to a girl's drink so that she will do anything they want."

>> (male PC) "But I'm a man."

>>> "Maybe it works on men too, if they're girly enough?"

>> (female PC) "Why would you mention that? Did you do it?"

>>> "Of course not. I just saw the look on your face after you drank that potion. How do you feel?"

>>>> "I'm fine. Just dizzy. It will pass. I think..."

Meanwhile, PC's Willpower is pinned to a max of 2.

Any dose of the potion will immediately set arousal to 100.

The willpower pinning cannot be released without completing the game/quest.

At any point, eating the correct alchemy ingredient will cure the effect and fulfill the quest objective.

This will immediately reset willpower to the normal limit, but with a non-trivial amount of resistance fatigue added.

However, the actual correct ingredient is chosen randomly from a set of candidates, some of which are hard to find or expensive.

If the "quest" is already completed and the follower doses the PC, there are no further quest objectives, but the effects of the potion will be re-imposed.

The quest itself is just a helper mechanic, and not critical to the enslavement or escape process.

After dosing...

Events (should) proceed much as described in Crota's post, with the PC agreeing to the absurd proposals due to the potion and low willpower.

Once the PC is in a full-set of bondage, the follower will periodically feed more tainted potions, maintaining the effect.

If the PC finds the cure, but doesn't escape promptly by removing at least one of the required devices, the follower will simply re-dose them, applying the effect again, then gag them, to block further antidote consumption.

If you can drag the bondage process out until you sleep in an inn, without totally submitting, you escape immediately on awaking without having to find the ingredient.

(The quest ends, of course, but as a failure).

If the PC eats the antidote before getting gagged, the game ends, willpower is restored, and the PC can get the devices removed by normal mechanics.

But as noted above, if they do not remove at least one device somehow (deal with follower, key, escapology, etc) then the follower will re-dose them and then gag them.

While bound in a full set of devices (gag optional), the PC can ask the follower to release them, which they will do only if the PC agrees to be their slave with a regular sized debt.

Alternatively, the PC can just stay bound, but as that will include a food/drink blocking gag, it's not a practical plan for long.

PC can try to escape solo, which is fine, but will just restart the follower on the dialog binding track again unless they eat the antidote.

PC can use incompletely bound time to try and find the antidote.

While the full set is worn, the follower will, on occasion, re-dose with the potion, pinning willpower at 2, though probably that makes little difference at this point.

They will remove the gag to do this, and may take a little while to re-add it, giving a chance to eat the antidote.

The PC cannot buy out of slavery while under the effect of the potion.

The PC cannot eat an antidote while gagged, and must find a way to remove the gag to do so.

This is probably impossible, as the PC will be in an armbinder.

An enslaved PC will have normal enslavement gear, and will usually not be gagged (though there are exceptions).

i.e. To escape, the PC must have discovered the cure, and have some of it available, and have the slavery buyout cash available at the same time.

While under the effect of the potion, the follower will have some fun random dialogs.

While under the effect of the potion, the PC can beg the follower for sex.

Note that if you keep eating the antidote and then not escaping, you will rack up resistance fatigue, which may create another problem.

Final full set for the purposes of being eligible to plead for release through slavery:

• arm cuffs
• leg cuffs
• slave boots
• gloves (or mittens, should you acquire them by other means)
• armbinder or equivalent
• blindfold
• hobble-dress or equivalent

If wearing at least the above devices, the PC can beg for release and get the enslavement "deal".

If wearing at least the above devices, and the PC is not under the potion effect, the follower may dose them at random.

Even if wearing the above devices, if the PC sleeps, and is not gagged, the follower will stop trying to dose them.

If the PC sleeps while gagged, there is no free escape.

Once the PC accepts the enslavement deal, the follower will continue to dose at random, if the PC is not gagged.

If the PC eats an antidote, the follower will dose after a minute or so, real time.

If PC is enslaved and sold, new owner will not dose.

I was thinking of using Hydra's Slavegirls as a base for the forced followers and some other mechanics.

Alas, the permissions/rights for Slave Girls won't allow further development (there are no permissions), so that's a non-starter.

I'm probably going to put all the followers required for the forced follower mechanics into DFC, so they won't have fancy skins or high-res face overlays.

Maybe add some kind of patch to fix that up later.

Then I will make a new world mod, that adds something like the dairy from Hydra's, plus more NPCs. It will likely require MME and probably Zap 7.

I like the potion Idea a lot i think it ties the two ideas together well.

Looking forward to seeing what becomes of it. Thanks for your interest in the idea as well.

18 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Tainted Potion - A different potion game

I like this idea less than some of the other ones you've posted.  

DF's use mainly 3 things to coerce the PC

-money

-browbeating/insults/verbal stuff

-sexual frustration (and actually maybe not even much of this)

This potion feels a lot like a "magic collar" of instant sex slavery. The search for a alchemy ingredient is basicly a search for a key.  It's just been done to death in other mods and frankly the "instant sex slave collar" was always a pretty boring mechanic.  What makes DF so great is that it doesn't do instant transformations.

I do think the bones of the idea are good though.  The DF tricking the PC into drinking a potion is a good idea.  The searching for an academical ingredient as a cure is also a good idea.  I just think it's do direct of a link to willpower, and it's definitely too big of an impact.  An instant drop to willpower 2 kind of invalidates everything else the mod is doing.

On 3/2/2020 at 1:02 PM, Darkwing241 said:

An instant drop to willpower 2 kind of invalidates everything else the mod is doing.

Sort of. Though you can get it back.

This is probably behind the things already on the map, or at least some number of them.

It would be off by default, and if you enable it, then the goal is to keep follower boredom low enough by other means.

And of course, once it's happened, it doesn't repeat - it's more of a one-off experience than a mechanic.

My priority when I return to working on DFC is perils for low willpower, and SLS is already quite good at reducing willpower.

I can get a low willpower, but it currently doesn't cause me many problems unless I have debt issues.

Well... a priority anyway. I'm also adding more ways to lose willpower. DF traditionally only touched it if you had sex while wearing devices, though there were a few other spots where you could lose some.

Now, taking deals also impacts it a little, and I think most follower interactions where you come out badly should cost you -some- resistance.

In your additional notes section you mention that there are follower quirks.  Will we be able to chose them in the MCM on a follower per follower basis?