Sexlab Survival

[Lupine00]

Is it possible that the cause of some players experiencing dialog conditions that do not operate properly ... and AI packages that perhaps also have condition issues ... is upgrade related?

 

i.e. It varies depending on whether you have a new game, or an upgraded game, and if you do have an upgraded game, whether you skipped updates or not.

 

 

Such bugs can easily occur, due to Skyrim only working reliably with completely new dialogs.

 

If the topic or dialog already exists and you edit it ... it seems to sort of work in cases where you create a completely new record in the ESP structure, but otherwise doesn't.

 

So, if you add a condition on the end, it works. But if you re-order conditions, and add a new condition at the start, it doesn't. The existing records are retained and not reloaded, based on index in the ESP, even though they've changed ... but condition records appended on the end are added into the save as you'd hope.

 

I'm not very sure of how dialog loading works on upgrade, but it seems plausible it's going to have some quirk like this.

 

If anyone has better information on how dialog updates are processed into an existing game, please share!

 

 

I could see (something like) this in DFC, where dialogs I knew to be deleted from my ESP were still showing up in the test game.

In any case, it does seem fragile. The consequence is that it's easy to make an edit and forget it won't work in an updated game.

 

I think this explains the editing pattern you sometimes see in mods, where a dialog gains a condition on the end that is always false (effectively stopping it showing) and a new, similar, dialog is added with variant conditions. Failing to follow this pattern is easily done, especially if you forget which dialogs are completely new to a version and which are not. The consequence is problems in old games, and new games that behave differently to old ones.

 

 

It gets five times more complex where you introduce a new dialog in version X, edit it in X+1, and some users update directly from X to X+2 and some go to X, X+1, then X+2, and some other users go from X-1 to X+2 and miss all the intervening versions, and finally, some are installing X+2 clean in a new game. In this case, I think this variance in upgrade steps could be causing the different outcomes.

 

 

I know Monoman has some understanding of this; quite likely better than mine, but I'm pretty sure it's easy to make a mistake with it, even if you know the rules. It's full of traps.

[genericlogin]

I've noticed that if you're also using Sanguine's Debauchery and get pulled into the dreamworld, the guards think your evading the toll. This doesn't make sense because Sanguine can send you back where you started. Would it be possible to add an exemption to the toll evasion check for the dreamworld, so you only get the guards after you if you come out someplace other than were you went in?

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, kupa11 said:

That would be pretty nice.

SL Approach can make guards nice. Sometimes.

This creates some problems with SLS, because they, and others, exhibit a split personality.

 

As I've had so many reliability issues with SL Approach, and the not-quite-in-English translations don't really work, I'm removing it from my game. A pity, as I like the concept a great deal. The execution is patchy though.

 

My relationship to the HH 3.0 is even more conflicted. You can struggle, but not in a way I like, and the control conditions are very limited compared to SL Adventures, but the latter offers no way to struggle, but you can run... Not that running is any use with SLS installed, as they can easily catch you. There are no rape mods I am totally happy with right now.

[Lupine00]

Just now, genericlogin said:

I've noticed that if you're also using Sanguine's Debauchery and get pulled into the dreamworld, the guards think your evading the toll. This doesn't make sense because Sanguine can send you back where you started. Would it be possible to add an exemption to the toll evasion check for the dreamworld, so you only get the guards after you if you come out someplace other than were you went in?

You can do this yourself in the MCM.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

If anyone has better information on how dialog updates are processed into an existing game, please share!

Can't say I've noticed anything I couldn't explain except for:

1. The recent debacle with guard dialogue being blocked with the exclusive flag even though the quest was stopped.

2. Forgetting to build (or for some reason sometimes just re-building) the seq file.

 

In the case of the recent trouble with guard behaviours, I have found some issues and think I have them fixed so I think it's just a case of the quest start/stop logic being a bit silly.

I'd post an update but I'm in the middle of bolting something onto the side. 

49 minutes ago, genericlogin said:

I've noticed that if you're also using Sanguine's Debauchery and get pulled into the dreamworld, the guards think your evading the toll. This doesn't make sense because Sanguine can send you back where you started. Would it be possible to add an exemption to the toll evasion check for the dreamworld, so you only get the guards after you if you come out someplace other than were you went in?

You can 'undodge' the toll by clicking on the town in the stats Mcm. 

The grace period needs to have expired first though. 

[John Calumnus]

5 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Can't say I've noticed anything I couldn't explain except for:

1. The recent debacle with guard dialogue being blocked with the exclusive flag even though the quest was stopped.

2. Forgetting to build (or for some reason sometimes just re-building) the seq file.

 

In the case of the recent trouble with guard behaviours, I have found some issues and think I have them fixed so I think it's just a case of the quest start/stop logic being a bit silly.

I'd post an update but I'm in the middle of bolting something onto the side. 

You can 'undodge' the toll by clicking on the town in the stats Mcm. 

The grace period needs to have expired first though. 

Ran into a similar problem with the Weapon Drawn detection quest. I accidentally drew my weapon near Whiterun's gate on the way down to pay the toll. Guard spotted me, "punished" me, then as soon as punishment was finished and long before I had a chance to draw my weapon again he started harping on me for having a drawn weapon. It must be some kind of interaction with another mod but I'll be blessed if I know what it is.

[blarghxxx]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before but here goes:

As I'm playing without tattoos for curses (partly because I'm not a fan of tattoos and partly because I didn't get it to work), it's fairly easy for my mage to comply with the rules and still be able to use magic outside of towns. As soon as  I get the first key, I unlock the collar. Then when I get back to town I put it back on, but manipulate the locks so I can reliably remove it once I leave. I actually like this mechanic but I feel there should be some punishment possibilities:

- If you get back to town without a collar you should receive some sort of punishment and not just have the collar be put back on (maybe an exception for the first time ever visiting a city)

- If the guard finds out that you manipulated the locks (if this is detectable) the punishment should be more severe. Maybe have them collect the price of the magic license (like with toll evasion) or lock on a manipulation-proof collar or something similar. This should maybe only have a small chance of beeing detected (maybe depending on your lockping skill as a measure of how well you were able to manipulate the locks?) and only be possible if you're being controlled at all (higher chance if you took of your collar).

 

As I said just a suggestion for an otherwise great mod. Thank you very much for the effort you put into this!

 

[John Calumnus]

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Can't say I've noticed anything I couldn't explain except for:

1. The recent debacle with guard dialogue being blocked with the exclusive flag even though the quest was stopped.

2. Forgetting to build (or for some reason sometimes just re-building) the seq file.

 

In the case of the recent trouble with guard behaviours, I have found some issues and think I have them fixed so I think it's just a case of the quest start/stop logic being a bit silly.

I'd post an update but I'm in the middle of bolting something onto the side. 

You can 'undodge' the toll by clicking on the town in the stats Mcm. 

The grace period needs to have expired first though. 

Is there a reason the mod is telling me "The guards notice I'm missing" even though I've payed the toll? Recent problem just cropped up.

 

EDIT: The Ledger says I owe the toll, Click on the box to pay the toll, it says I already paid the toll. Waiting 24 hours doesn't solve the issue.

[Monoman1]

3 hours ago, John Calumnus said:

Ran into a similar problem with the Weapon Drawn detection quest. I accidentally drew my weapon near Whiterun's gate on the way down to pay the toll. Guard spotted me, "punished" me, then as soon as punishment was finished and long before I had a chance to draw my weapon again he started harping on me for having a drawn weapon. It must be some kind of interaction with another mod but I'll be blessed if I know what it is.

If it didn't loop it sounds more like a problem with the cooldown than what others are having. 

16 minutes ago, blarghxxx said:

As I'm playing without tattoos for curses (partly because I'm not a fan of tattoos and partly because I didn't get it to work), it's fairly easy for my mage to comply with the rules and still be able to use magic outside of towns. As soon as  I get the first key, I unlock the collar. Then when I get back to town I put it back on, but manipulate the locks so I can reliably remove it once I leave. I actually like this mechanic but I feel there should be some punishment possibilities:

Never thought of that. I'm not sure what the purpose of that manipulate lock mechanic is. Seems to fly in the face of everything DD stands for. I think the best thing I can do is 'The collar disintegrates to dust as it's removed' ala SD.

18 minutes ago, blarghxxx said:

If you get back to town without a collar you should receive some sort of punishment and not just have the collar be put back on (maybe an exception for the first time ever visiting a city)

Won't work I'd say. Too many mods just replace collars at will without consideration and SLS collars are not blocking/quest devices. Would be a pain in the ass to get punished for something that is out of your control right?

19 minutes ago, blarghxxx said:

If the guard finds out that you manipulated the locks (if this is detectable)

Don't know off-hand that it is detectable. I have a sneaky feeling that it isn't which just adds to the problem and why I suggested disintegration. 

Also definitely can not add a non-manipulatable device without a hard dependency on DD I reckon. 

18 minutes ago, John Calumnus said:

Is there a reason the mod is telling me "The guards notice I'm missing" even though I've payed the toll? Recent problem just cropped up.

I think it's just a false positive. 

To test save and just wait whatever your grace period is. If you don't get the follow-up message 'The guards will have noticed I'm gone' then you're ok. 

[Lupine00]

23 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Don't know off-hand that it is detectable.

You can set the device so it can't have manipulated locks very easily.

Just change the DisableLockManipulation property on the item script override.

Obviously, only practical for items specific to SLS.

 

Could you also make the HDT collars something that has to be explicitly enabled by not adding them to the config file (at all) by default?

So, they can only be added by explicit player edit?

 

 

 

For reasons that baffle me, the isLockManipulated flag is a local variable, not a property, so you can't inspect it, or modify it easily.

The only practical way to get at it is to inherit the equip script you want to use into a derived script, then set that derived script as the script on your custom item. You can now create a property that exposes the local variable and allows you to read and modify it via scripts that merely reference the object.

 

The downside of this is that swapping the script requires you to copy all of its property assignments.

This is what killed CD and it bugged Inte too.

 

I think there is a cheesy way around this though... In Tes5Edit, I think you can manipulate the VMAD to keep all the properties, but change the script, so  your derived script has all the right property defaults, which are otherwise hellish to set up.

 

Ah, I see a little bug in LockAccessDifficulty ... 

[Monoman1]

23 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

you can set the device so it can't have manipulated locks very easily.

:Squints:

This is doable without a dependency?

My method would seem a lot easier if a bit cheap.

23 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Could you also make the HDT collars something that has to be explicitly enabled by not adding them to the config file (at all) by default?

I could but I like the chain collars. Generally speaking. Until they bug out. 

[kupa11]

14 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

No underscores _

_SLS_GuardWarnWeapEquippedQuest

See in red above. 

All one word,

Still nothing. I tried without them and slsguardwarn and still nothing. In which version it is added? I'll just download older version.

[blarghxxx]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Never thought of that. I'm not sure what the purpose of that manipulate lock mechanic is. Seems to fly in the face of everything DD stands for. I think the best thing I can do is 'The collar disintegrates to dust as it's removed' ala SD.

Well as I said, I actually enjoy the "manipulate locks" mechanic quite a bit. It allows for pretending to be an obedient slave while still retaining some defiance (works with DF deals as well)). It just would be more interesting, if it was detectable. Disintegrating the collar upon removal would be fun the first time around and then definately keep you from removing the collar because you're guaranteed to be found out. Might be fun, too, but not what I would want.

 

Quote

Won't work I'd say. Too many mods just replace collars at will without consideration and SLS collars are not blocking/quest devices. Would be a pain in the ass to get punished for something that is out of your control right?

Well so far in my game the mods seem to respect, that there's already a device in that slot. Also if some bad guy forcefully removed my mandatory device and replaced it with one of their own (in a defeat scenario, e.g.) I wouldn't mind being punished for that (after all, my character is being punished for being female all the time). In a similar vein I wouldn't mind being punished because some trapped chest added a collar while I had mine removed as mentioned above. I guess this would definately need to be optional, depending on the other mods used.

Quote

Don't know off-hand that it is detectable. I have a sneaky feeling that it isn't which just adds to the problem and why I suggested disintegration. 

Also definitely can not add a non-manipulatable device without a hard dependency on DD I reckon. 

That's too bad, then. 

Anyway, as I said I just wanted to mention an idea that popped into my had and see if it would be doable. 

[Lupine00]

13 minutes ago, blarghxxx said:

Well as I said, I actually enjoy the "manipulate locks" mechanic quite a bit.

If you are able to modify the DD source, it's rather easy to expose the variable via a non-auto property, with minimal code changes there.

The state could be put in StorageUtil for per-device uniqueness (placing the state on the wearer). 

DD has an assumption that only the player triggers those remove dialogs anyway.

There are several aspects of it that fail to properly handle being on an NPC.

 

A function to manipulate the "manipulated" bool could then be added to the main library, so it could be flicked on and off without recourse to removing and re-fitting the item.

The variable is really only important at the point that the player interacts with the device.

 

 

Kimy suggested it would be rather awkward to add an ability to manipulate that value on a per-device application basis, but I don't see why.

Perhaps the difficulty for her was in finding the motivation to want to do it? Which is certainly a difficulty, but not of a technical kind.

She didn't propose I produce a patch, though I suppose I could have volunteered one.

[mercplatypus]

I think the purpose of lock manipulation was for people who wanted to wear the devices casually without using mods like dcl or any of the other common enslavement/bdsm mods going on.  That way they'd be able to dress up sexy at certain times and switch to adventuring gear when ready.

[Monoman1]

Fairly random additions this update. Just things I thought would be interesting or simple quality of life improvements. I still have to implement DFC severity in STA so proximity spanks still won't 'bottom out' your will right now. 

Since nobody seems to have noticed the guard punishment added last update requires - spoilers

Spoiler

Milk Addict and involves being sent to the middle of town and forced into a bound milking machine which fills the player with lactacid. Afterwards the guard will take all your milk and send you on your way. 

Town cow punishment

 

- Swapped to using DCLs cover animation. It still has the footstep sound bug but it's far less frequent and annoying. As a result Cursed Loot is now required for Cover Mechanics and not Zaz.

- Added SLSO interface. 

- Added Sex Experience (Requires SLSO) - Gain experience when you fuck different races. As your experience increases you'll gain large bonuses to stamina and stamina rate making it easier to make the same race cum. Helps offset inequality and encourages prostitution.

- Added Sex Experience sub option - Creature corruption. Gain corruption anytime you orgasm while being fucked by a creature. Increased corruption makes it harder for the player character to cum when fucking human races the more corrupted she becomes, until eventually only creature cocks will make her cum. Does not affect your human sex partner, only the player, which means you can still service normal cocks but they just won't do it for you anymore. Priests can remove your corruption but the price is high (5,000 gold). 

- Added bonus enjoyment based on creature cock size. Bonus enjoyment is still heavily influenced by your arousal but if the player is highly aroused and is getting impaled on a large beast cock then she'll find it very difficult not to cum her brains out. Huge cocks may make not orgasming virtually impossible. Encourages corruption. 

- Added chance to get forced to consume skooma BEFORE sex starts. Most mods drug the player after sex ends which is backwards IMO. Skooma will give you the stamina you need to hump like a rabbit.

- Added minimum arousal slider for rapists. SLS will check the arousal of any rape scene started with the player and bump the rapist's arousal up to the minimum value. Why would anyone rape you if they weren't horny? Stops rape scenes from going on for ages because your rapist wasn't really in the mood to begin with.

- Fixed some bugs in Guard Behaviours. 
- Added crime gold bounty slider for getting caught pickpocketing.
- Added PapyrusUtil version check and annoying message spam if incorrect version is found! 
- Disable follower contraband handling when licences are disabled. 
- Implemented DFC resistance loss severity - More severe events can drag your willpower lower than less severe events.

- Fixed unknown race load size not saving load size. 

- Fixed sleeping pickpocket perk not being added automatically on new games.
- Fixed Cover quest would still start if cover mechanics was disabled in the Mcm. 
- Removed cover animation break debug messagebox. 

[Clea Strange]

can you prevent the cover animation, like turning it off? When I used to use DCL I would always turn off the Cover Animation since I didn't want it to be on

[Monoman1]

13 minutes ago, Hiderius said:

can you prevent the cover animation, like turning it off? When I used to use DCL I would always turn off the Cover Animation since I didn't want it to be on

Yes. Theres a toggle. But cover is manual not automatic like DCL.

You'll only cover yourself when you press the key. 

[Vuzzar]

55 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Since nobody seems to have noticed the guard punishment added last update requires - spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Milk Addict and involves being sent to the middle of town and forced into a bound milking machine which fills the player with lactacid. Afterwards the guard will take all your milk and send you on your way. 

Town cow punishment

 

I did find it but I cheated ?

Still, my character had a nice suprise when she got stopped by a guard in Markarth for shouting in the streets. He told her to follow him and she did. They got next to some sort of dwarven machine and the guard told her to hop in. Being a good girl and a bit curious as well, she obeyed. A tube was forced into her mouth, a liquid pouring through it directly to her stomach and then the cups around her breast started to milk her. She was a bit scared at first, but she quickly started to enjoy it. When the machine couldn't suck anymore milk, the guard let the dirty cow out of the milker, took her fresh milk and went on his way. The dragonborn liked it so much that she would find herself misbehaving just to have a chance to get another ride! ? She quickly got addicted to lactacid and now that she is a junkie, guards won't put her in the machine anymore... ?

Spoiler

 

[Vuzzar]

I have just upgraded to the latest version and SLS is now called Devious Device - Expansion.esm in the MCM menu

[Monoman1]

20 minutes ago, Antaufein said:

I have just upgraded to the latest version and SLS is now called Devious Device - Expansion.esm in the MCM menu

Someone else had that before this version. Haven't seen it myself. 

It's interesting that it always seems to be DDx for some reason....

Do you use a SkyUi mod of some kind?

 

Spoiler

 

[Vuzzar]

14 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Someone else had that before this version. Haven't seen it myself. 

It's interesting that it always seems to be DDx for some reason....

Do you use a SkyUi mod of some kind?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I only use SkyUI and ElSopa's colored icons and widget. It's the first time that happens to me.

[V3rius]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

- Swapped to using DCLs cover animation. It still has the footstep sound bug but it's far less frequent and annoying. As a result Cursed Loot is now required for Cover Mechanics and not Zaz.

Is it possible to disable the ESP from cursed loot and still have the cover mechanic? Since animations and everything else required is there without the esp.

[Monoman1]

7 minutes ago, V3rius said:

Is it possible to disable the ESP from cursed loot and still have the cover mechanic? Since animations and everything else required is there without the esp.

Yes I think it's just the files need to be present. 

[Lenore]

I tried your instructions from the first page but nothing I do stops the guards from literally chasing me around and forcing a conversation. (ahh nm, i restarted the game and it was fine)