Zaz Animation Pack V8.0 plus

[Musje]

19 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Quick question, please

 

Is this something that will apply to furniture too?  Or just worn restraints?

Worn restraints only (and T.ara said he wanted to make it optional with an MCM switch).

Keeping someone in furniture requires a bit more stuff that tends to make things script heavy. If you lock yourself in a restraint, you can free yourself if you have the key (and presumably you can go out and find one). But once you lock yourself in furniture, you'll need an NPC to get you out. Interactive BDSM does some of that but that's a mod in its own right, a bit beyond the scope of ZAP.

[DonQuiWho]

37 minutes ago, Musje said:

Worn restraints only (and T.ara said he wanted to make it optional with an MCM switch).

Keeping someone in furniture requires a bit more stuff that tends to make things script heavy. If you lock yourself in a restraint, you can free yourself if you have the key (and presumably you can go out and find one). But once you lock yourself in furniture, you'll need an NPC to get you out. Interactive BDSM does some of that but that's a mod in its own right, a bit beyond the scope of ZAP.

OK, that's clear, thank you

 

t.ara does a lot of really nice stuff, and the quality seems to have improved immensely over the last 12 months, but just prancing around looking pretty doesn't really cut it for a lot of people, which is one reason why I fear that once DD gets its act in gear on proper furniture and related mechanics which modders can use to properly create interactive events, ZAP may eventually fall by the wayside, and all his effort might be reduced in value.  It will be a real pity if that happens and I wish he had been more willing to make the assets he created available to the DD folk to do their type of magic on, instead of having to recreate it from ground up.  But that's life...

 

Otherwise, I have been using your Interactive BDSM with HSH/AYGAS - it's rather nice - and I'll try it on its own with just the player, in a new game, to see how it goes

 

Thanks again

[worik]

7 hours ago, t.ara said:

I had a mod in the past with a cute tunnel-system-maybe I can find that again

? not sure what you are looking for .. cells ready to copy? or some inspiration?

 

• Skyrim Sewers adds huge underground constructions https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14351
• Solitude reborn has some nice extensions in the underground  https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/63685

They can serve at least for inspriration , though I have no idea if copying would be finde with the authors. ?

[t.ara]

9 hours ago, worik said:

? not sure what you are looking for .. cells ready to copy? or some inspiration?

 

• Skyrim Sewers adds huge underground constructions https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14351
• Solitude reborn has some nice extensions in the underground  https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/63685

They can serve at least for inspriration , though I have no idea if copying would be finde with the authors. ?

Doesn´t matter at all- not hard to use some little fantasy-anyway-fantasy is one of my strongest modding-weapon.

The items and parts of the game are exactly use-able without ending-: 1.000.000 possibilities left. It´s like to have an orchestra, which is performing your composition! 

I´ll have a look today on an older partition. Then I will mindfully merge the idea to the actual existing mod. No copy-paste.

Other author´s ideas are always interesting, but under a church it has to look different, imo.

 

Anyway, thank you!

 

 

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

31 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Donkey,

Not attacking you, as I know you are a serious follower of my work and therefore I thank you very much, but let me give some statements again:

 

First of all you please don´t forget that i work for myself, my personal interest-this you please have to understand. Of course has the quality of items changed because i made my experiences, seems to be normal for a beginner, isn´t it??? -and that´s why it will take longer time to release the pack again, because the older items will of course get also an improvement.

But I would not compare this work anymore with DDxyzf. 

ZAP is not like DD, really not.

My "effort is surely not reducing somehow" as this of your "states" is obsolete in itself. It is of course no pity to obtain an alternative mod beside DD and to keep zap interesting for the future. ZAP will in every aspect raise the wish to play a sexy skyrim, also if it´s mechanics and items are "low" quality, are they really?? This wish to play ZAP, depends on different other aspects, one of those aspects is the "cult" of the mod, which can´t be topped by any other resource mod, depending on the "basic furnitures of the past". I take care that zap is offering also lot of new objects and sets, which can be used in new mods (like new coloured light-BEAMS, trees and other new clutter). The pack is a "helper" in different aspects, which are very useful and interesting, if you create new locations, which are made for BDSM-gaming. I do not imagine, that DD will ever be doing such a step - but maybe, in the past year, such accessoires came also with DD-idk.

 

The "fall on the wayside" may be existing in your personal opinion, I personally feel the opposite. 

 

Sadly you did not carefully follow to the threads of the past. I´ll not again and again repeat, what happened in the past, but ok-here we go again:

 

I suggested in the past to open DD for my work but there has been no interest (depending on my person or low-poly-work-quality-)-and btw. are the DD items not in my focus-that´s why I prefer to work into zap-that´s it.

 

Because the DD-authors are sponsored and make money with the mods, I don´t like to have my stuff going into there, maybe you now please accept that ?

 

As consequence, i await to keep the items of zap8 and higher inside only of this resource and everybody please use the stuff as a resouce dependency.

 

Zap´s furniture always were exactly the most interesting items, which have been working with a lot of mods-and all those furnitures did their job quite well, also in version 6.

ZAP is a common reason for a lot of people, to play SKYRIM. You think that DD is changing that?-I´m sure that it´s (a) a not interesting statement and (b) not the reality, not true.

 

 

MUSJE

The Modding-Queen of LoversLab...that´s more better suiting.

 

p.s. zap gameplay is always "computer-gaming-lifestyle for all people, who like kinky stuff"

 

@t.ara

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to write such a long reply

 

I can appreciate the different style and environment you create for yourself, even though I tend to play in the rougher parts of Tamriel, that don't have quite the look and feel of a holiday in the Bahamas or Caribbean 

 

I also take the point about cash, but no-one is forced to pay for the DD stuff.  Anything anyone contributes is given is a voluntary expression of appreciation,  If you do things differently, fine

 

But, overall, I don't think that you really understand what I wrote.  Just let's leave it at that, as the 'why' probably doesn't matter  

 

=================

 

Leaving that aside, a quick question, if I may

 

As to ZAP mechanics, Musje mentioned some sort of 'key' system. 

 

One of the main things missing from ZAP (while being both first, and good for its time, its now quite old and dated) is the lack of 'realisticaly' playable B&D.  Just 'looking nice' isn't quite as inspiring as 'looking nice and working properly' 

 

So what might this key system be?  If we run both DD and ZAP, and mods dependent on both, as I can do quite comfortably, are we going to end up with two different sets of 'keys' and related mechanics for the assets used by different mods?  

 

Because that sounds daft.  Is there any way you could maybe ask the DD people to let you use theirs, so we get some compatibility?

 

Maybe you and/or Musje could give us some more info on this?

 

 

[t.ara]

25 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

 

 

Leaving that aside, a quick question, if I may

 

As to ZAP mechanics, Musje mentioned some sort of 'key' system. 

 

One of the main things missing from ZAP (while being both first, and good for its time, its now quite old and dated) is the lack of 'realisticaly' playable B&D.  Just 'looking nice' isn't quite as inspiring as 'looking nice and working properly' 

 

So what might this key system be?  If we run both DD and ZAP, and mods dependent on both, as I can do quite comfortably, are we going to end up with two different sets of 'keys' and related mechanics for the assets used by different mods?  

 

Because that sounds daft.  Is there any way you could maybe ask the DD people to let you use theirs, so we get some compatibility?

 

Maybe you and/or Musje could give us some more info on this?

 

Musje is testing some functions-I personally want an easy working and skyrim-friendly function, which is not damaging the gameplay and works like the vanilla doors-key-stuff. On characters, this may work different-but I like to have it most simple.

You can´t make DD and zap compatible. And I don´t want the locking code of DD. This would not mean to be compatible...!!

Compatibility is coming with keywords and with sexLab integration, which is both not necessary, if a quester is using both, DD and ZAP side by side...which will be btw. very problematic because of the available idle-animation-amount...I told that both mods won´t run anymore side by side...some pages back-it´s inside of this thread.

[worik]

16 minutes ago, t.ara said:

DD and ZAP side by side...which will be btw. very problematic because of the available idle-animation-amount...I told that both mods won´t run anymore side by side

I have the "old" ZAP7 and DD and some SLAL packages in my main game setup. So far I am not even half near the famously discussed danger zone ..

So if the animation limit is the only limitation between DD and ZAP9 ? .. ?

 

At least I (* pointing repeatedly to my own stomach *) can live perfectly fine with that

[t.ara]

10 hours ago, worik said:

I have the "old" ZAP7 and DD and some SLAL packages in my main game setup. So far I am not even half near the famously discussed danger zone ..

So if the animation limit is the only limitation between DD and ZAP9 ? .. ?

 

At least I (* pointing repeatedly to my own stomach *) can live perfectly fine with that

ZAP 9 is in between a very beautiful resource pack. And some (about 20) new "beams"....you can also use for special furniture-lightning-I did not start with light-directoring-it´s all zero for now.

 

[Musje]

2 hours ago, donkeywho said:

So what might this key system be?  If we run both DD and ZAP, and mods dependent on both, as I can do quite comfortably, are we going to end up with two different sets of 'keys' and related mechanics for the assets used by different mods?  

 

Because that sounds daft.  Is there any way you could maybe ask the DD people to let you use theirs, so we get some compatibility?

 

Maybe you and/or Musje could give us some more info on this?

The problem of integrating with DD's code is that their locking mechanism (and underlying code) is quite elaborate. There's also a fundamental difference in the way DD handles locking items, and how ZAP will do it. If we adopt the DD mechanism, ZAP will become dependent on DD, or we'd have to borrow much of their code. Neither is an attractive option. So instead we'll have a simple, lightweight option that is also easy for other mods to interact with. Modders will have to code for DD and ZAP separately... but I promise that interacting with ZAP lockable items will almost be the same as working with regular Skyrim items, the only exception being if the mod needs to remove an item and the actor doesnt have the key.

 

How it works:

- NPCs can be given items to wear. You cannot remove these if you do not have the right key.

- The player can don items. These cannot be removed if the player does not have the key, or if the player's hands are bound.

- The key will be a miscelaneous item rather than a key item. So that you can drop the key if you want (key items cannot be dropped)

- If your hands are tied, you can ask friendly NPCs (not just anyone) for help.

 

It's basic but it works and is script-light, maybe open for refinement at a later stage.

 

 

As for the position of ZAP and DD: I hope that the game will let us have both running together. If not, I personally will choose ZAP and its mediaeval and more or less lore friendly devices and furniture, over DD with its more modern devices. But Aygas and HSH will continue to support both.

[DonQuiWho]

27 minutes ago, Musje said:

The problem of integrating with DD's code is that their locking mechanism (and underlying code) is quite elaborate. There's also a fundamental difference in the way DD handles locking items, and how ZAP will do it. If we adopt the DD mechanism, ZAP will become dependent on DD, or we'd have to borrow much of their code. Neither is an attractive option. So instead we'll have a simple, lightweight option that is also easy for other mods to interact with. Modders will have to code for DD and ZAP separately... but I promise that interacting with ZAP lockable items will almost be the same as working with regular Skyrim items, the only exception being if the mod needs to remove an item and the actor doesnt have the key.

 

How it works:

- NPCs can be given items to wear. You cannot remove these if you do not have the right key.

- The player can don items. These cannot be removed if the player does not have the key, or if the player's hands are bound.

- The key will be a miscelaneous item rather than a key item. So that you can drop the key if you want (key items cannot be dropped)

- If your hands are tied, you can ask friendly NPCs (not just anyone) for help.

 

It's basic but it works and is script-light, maybe open for refinement at a later stage.

 

 

As for the position of ZAP and DD: I hope that the game will let us have both running together. If not, I personally will choose ZAP and its mediaeval and more or less lore friendly devices and furniture, over DD with its more modern devices. But Aygas and HSH will continue to support both.

@Musje

 

Thanks for that. 

 

I think that that might make a lot of people happier that we might not end up as being able to use 'only one or the other' of the basic Frameworks.  That would be utterly insane

 

If the key mechanism is that simple and doesn't interfere with the DD ones, good.  However, you don't say how you would get keys      Any clues as to how that might happen, please? 

 

Glad to hear that HSH and AYGAS will support both Frameworks.  Changing that would be a HUGE step backwards, so all good there

 

I'm then left with my main fear being that ZAP will include so many animations, that cover so many things that lots of users might never use, that then adding in DD and some of the bigger SLAL packs will kill the FNIS limits.  But that's another issue completely ... ?

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

 

[worik]

8 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

However, you don't say how you would get keys

I guess we have three options

• player.additem
• write a quest mod around ZAP9 ressources
• convince t.ara to add the "LIBRARY OF ALL KEYS" in his little valley where all keys of the world have a copy.... something like good old Hermaeus Mora does  it with books

[DonQuiWho]

13 minutes ago, worik said:

I guess we have three options

• player.additem
• write a quest mod around ZAP9 ressources
• convince t.ara to add the "LIBRARY OF ALL KEYS" in his little valley where all keys of the world have a copy.... something like good old Hermaeus Mora does  it with books

So if dressed lower half in, say a DD Hobble dress. upper half in a ZAP gag and blindfold, the keys for one lot are in Ivarstead, the keys for the others in Solitude, the player is in Windhelm, Fast Travel is disabled, and your main quest requires you to be in Markarth...  

 

If we were in 1170 or so, I'd feel like I might be saying "Will no one rid me of these turbulent modders?"

[Musje]

A quest would be somewhat beyond the remit of a framework like ZAP. Maybe they could be made craft able. If a mod building on ZAP wanted more difficult to get keys, or have them only obtainable by quest, then they could duplicate or modify ZAP items and specify their own hard to get key for the locks. 

[Nymra]

I would love to see more controlable Zap features. Often things happen irregulary without any chance to find out.

 

One furniture locks camera, the other dont. One has "fall out" animation, the other dont. 
Sometimes gag sounds play, sometimes not. At the moment I have a weird problem with Zap and Shout like a Virgin, because something something always disables fast travel, but I cannot track it down (and I got the same devices as before). Maybe a DD 4.2 incompatibility? while the "fast travel - no" is from ZAP... 

There are also alot of functions in zap that seem to be nice to have but at the same time do not work at all. 
Devious Devices might be more modern, but it is also a lot of content that is regarded too "chaste" for many and also too immersion breaking. I love DDs, but my personal favourite is always furnitures and stuff like heretic ressources/more immersive devices. Virtually anything ZAP would offer, but comes with beeing old... 
Taras furnitures are awesome, but I would like to have them as a separate mod like it was with Zap 7. Animation limit is really plagueing me at the moment, especially with many mods require both ZAP 8+ and DD 4 or later. Its getting messy

I even started to look for Zap patches and workarounds, but had no luck yet  

And patreon is really nothing people should be annoyed. I m so thankfull of all the work I see here, I wish I could send a little money to all of you. But it would be too many people that would get  a dollar each

[kziitd]

English is not my native language, so I use Google translation.

----

I personally prefer zap,

just because I prefer to use the restraint on NPC rather than myself.

The furniture created by zap fits this well, just like mod like dm2.

Because DD is basically only suitable for female players, and zap, whether you are a male or a female player, you can put others on the furniture.

I really don't like playing female players just because I want to see what happens to DD on female players.

I prefer to play NPC with male players.

so zap is more suitable for me, just like mod like DM2.

[Musje]

10 hours ago, Nymra said:

Animation limit is really plagueing me at the moment, especially with many mods require both ZAP 8+ and DD 4 or later. Its getting messy

 

Are there many such mods?  DD4.1+ no longer requires ZAP. If a mod requires both, it's time to have a chat with the author At least my philosophy is to have as few required dependencies as possible, while supporting as many optional ones as possible.

[Nymra]

2 hours ago, Musje said:

 

Are there many such mods?  DD4.1+ no longer requires ZAP. If a mod requires both, it's time to have a chat with the author At least my philosophy is to have as few required dependencies as possible, while supporting as many optional ones as possible.

Might be good in theory, but practically I really have to do research to even come up with one mod that does not require both.

Plus, many use a lot of mods together, so even when you reduce the number of mods that uses DD and ZAP together, it is very likely that there will always be an important mod that cannot be changed at all because the author does not want it or is no longer around. 

The conflict between zap and DD is really annoying and unnecessary, too. Patreon is not "making money with mods" nor is it a paywall in case of DD. I read complaints about tara with zaz or kimy with DD same as often in this forums, so I really dont think there is much of a difference there. Both mods are centerpieces of loverslab and there can be no world peace before they both play together. 
And from what I see, ZAZ is way more dated and in dire need of an in depth update that is not only furniture related but would provide both DD compatibility and an improvement of Zaz core mechanics. It could even provide and alternative for DD handling. 

Example: if Zaz would also allow DD keywords and handling of DD devices, it could add a full "cheat" menu that allows removing and modifying of DD Devices. DD is way too restrictive in that regard (unnecessarily,. if I want to cheat I just get additem menu and spawn keys, but it is annoying. - Slaverun mod allows an elaborate removing or changing of worn devices which comes in very handy indeed. Just need to have the whole slaverun mod installed for it...)

But from what I see tara made no single change to zaz itself instead just added our beloved furnitures. Why they were integrated in zap 8+ is something I will never understand, even tho  I really love furnitures and use them alot. For example Whiterun Brothel Mod (which is the only major mod that uses Zap 8+ at the moment) is also DD dependent and therefor reduces the SLAL animations to a minimum, which is sad. 
 

Also there is no mod that works well with interactive scenes with furnitures. That is something that would also be Zaz territory. I outlined an idea about what would be required that goes way beyond that here.

Well, one can dream
I would just love to see a kind of a peace council to sort out the problems between zaz and DD forever and work together on a zaz update. More than one mod is currently working on removing zaz, while the other half is removing DD. But I doubt it will really happen and as I said above, it will never happen for a majority of mods.

 

 

[Psalam]

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Might be good in theory, but practically I really have to come up with a mod that does not require both.

Plus, many of them use a lot of mods together, so even if they reduce the number of mods that DD and ZAP use, it is very likely that there will always be an important mod that can not be changed it or is no longer around. 

The conflict between zap and DD is really annoying and unnecessary, too. Patreon is not "making money with mods" nor is it a paywall in case of DD. I read complaints about tara with zaz or kimy with DD same as often in these forums, so I really dont think there is much of a difference there. Both mods are centerpieces of loverslab and there can not be a world peace before they both play together. 
And from what I see, ZAZ is now in the process of completing the ZAZ core mechanics. It could provide and alternative for DD handling. 

For example, if Zaz would allow DD devices to be used, DD devices could be removed and modified. Slaverun mod allows an elaborate removing or changing of worn devices which comes in very handy. Just need to have the whole slaverun mod installed for it ...)

But from what I have seen is no change to zaz itself instead of just our beloved furnitures. I really do not understand, even tho I really love furnitures and use them alot. For example Whiterun Brothel Mod (which is the only major mod that uses Zap 8+ at the moment) is also DD dependent and therefor reduces the SLAL animations to a minimum, which is sad. 
 

So there is no mod that works well with interactive scenes with furnitures. That's something that would be Zaz territory. I outlined an idea about what would be required.

Well, one can dream
I would just love to see the zaz and DD forever and work together on a zaz update. More than one mod is currently working on removing zaz, while the other half is removing DD. But I doubt it will really happen and as I said above, it will never happen for a majority of mods.

 

 

 

 

You know, I was tired of this topic back in May:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/?do=findComment&comment=2256166

 

and I'm still tired of it. I will repeat my analogy from that period. It's like having friends that you go out with after a football game. Two of your close friends can't decide which bar/restaurant to go to. One wants the usual Italian fare and the other wants to try out the new Thai place. You are caught in the middle. Yes, I wish that they could solve it but it clearly isn't going to happen. Can we really drop it now? As my post has indicated it's been over 6 months already!

 

And I have to say that I spend time on the various DD and DD-derived mod threads also. While I have seen this once or twice on those threads I still believe that T.ara is singled out for most of this "persuasion." But you can go back and read my posts from May if you want to hear my feelings about THAT. Needless to say, I have seen nothing to change my mind in the interim.

 

As for me I REALLY wish that someone would figure out a workaround for the limit on animations which is the REAL basis for this issue. It is NOT T.ara, and it is NOT the DD team that is "at fault." Ultimately it is the limit of Bugthesda's engine. 

 

And since I haven't been posting here and telling T.ara (and now Musje) what a splendid job they're doing let me do so now. I am REALLY excited by the pictures T.ara is posting. The new system sounds great. The idea of making a "key" a miscellaneous item is inspired and long overdue. Now that I have some basics in modding I know that it will solve at least one issue that I was looking at. So, keep up the good work!!!  ? ?

 

[t.ara]

Please don´t worry about my action of deleting some past pic-series, I need new place for more actual stuff.

I have worked on lightning, which I did without an ENB, because ENB is not showing the correct lightning which I add by using Creation-Kit.

So I swiched back to a Creation-Kit-Compatible lightning environment with zero Climatic-modding.-thats it!

 

 

 

[t.ara]

This animation pack will come with all new trees animated.

[OddPillow4]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:03 AM, bluring said:

It's likely memory related issue. If it's regular RAM, most time Crash Fixes can address. Make sure you enable UseOSAllocators, CustomMemoryBlock, and set CustomMemoryBlockTotalSizeMb to sufficient value. If it's VRAM related, you will need to install ENBOOST and configure its memory fix (no need to enable the full ENB if you don't want to use it).

 

A few helpful guides:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/74427/ (don't just copy his enblocal.ini, you need to understand those settings and play with them)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/82860/ (same thing on enblocal.ini)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/76373// (look under How to Start & Stability section)

I did what you said and installed crash fixes and holy shit it worked!!! Thank you so much you are my hero dude it was a huge help. I just can't thank you enough now.

[OddPillow4]

On 10/29/2018 at 7:49 AM, YourFriendlyDragonborn said:

use crashfix plugin and enboost.

I installed crash fixes and it worked! Thank you for the big help.

[zzlaq1]

Hi, friend, why not published zap9 earlier, looked in the picture and video, water comes out from my mouth, I can understand you want to make it perfect and released, but mod is just without limit, every day we want add or delete somthing in it, why not release some part for teast, don't be afraid for people complain, friend like it will always give your suggestion, like add this or like this will be better, insteafd of complaining this or that not work.

 

Hope to see ZAP9 come to us earlier.

 

Just for kidding, not like bethada, always delaied in the new game publishing?.

[t.ara]

new:

 

-pillory-static: - skeleton-height correction

-new pillory made of old wood

-massive x-cross made of old wood

-punishment-torture-pole with two very uncomfortable "seats" (dual-furniture for two npcs with two different animations, one is asymetric)

[worik]

39 minutes ago, t.ara said:

-punishment-torture-pole with two very uncomfortable "seats" (dual-furniture for two npcs with two different animations, one is asymetric)

veeeery uncomfortable