Zaz Animation Pack V8.0 plus

[t.ara]

17 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Two quick questions , pls, t.ara?

 

I'm not trying to cover old ground with this, or start any arguments.  It may be that your orriginal answers got lost when your old threads were deleted

 

1

 

Are you still saying that you will leave the current functionlity of ZAP 7.0 'untouched', so that mods that were built to be dependent on that, and their authors, will also be able to be certain that they can depend on ZAP 8 upwards NOT to mess with their work?  I've seen it suggested very recently that you were saying that you would NOT do that, ie say that the base functionality of ZAP 7 would remain.  I had actually thought that you had already said, some time ago, that Zap 7 WOULD continue to be the base part of whatever you did, remaining 'untouched' to ensure future compatibility  ie, whatever you do yourself will be added on top of ZAP 7 as an addition, not as a replacement or as a fundamental change.  It would be helpful if you could make this absolutely clear one way or the other

 

2

 

If you are going to be further developing your grand 'castle' as a showcase for the additions, can you please please please release it as a separate mod?  Or at least make it optional?  Around Whiterun, where you seemed to want to place itm there is just far too much chance of it bumping into other buildings and structures that are significant parts of major Nexus etc mods, and some people will be put off upgrading and adding your shiny new toys if they feel that they are going to lose out on major infrastructures that they regularly use in their games

 

 

TIA for some help on these

hi donkey;-)

 

1. the zap7 inside of my work and will work as usually, all new elements are added and use the same framework. Because all new things are registered like usually, there´s no reason, why mods that work with zap7 should not also work with all following versions. The only thing what will harm the zap 8 is an overwriting of another mod by exchanging some or one of the main-frame-scripts. In this case, the zap8 installation is obsolete and the pack melts down to zap7.0 with no access to the new items anymore. If you install ZEP for zap 7.0 over zap8, then you have this problem. Otherwise can you implement sep also into zap8.0, but it´s of course some work to do and the zep supporting - mod won´t take any advance on the new stuff, so it doesn´t make sense to install zap8. Every time, if your mod organizer shows you to overwrite data from a mod, you should be carefully participating, what is therewith happening and which results it will cause.

ZAP7=ZAP8 (with new stuff) = ZAP8PLUS (with again new stuff + double time animation possibilities)

 

 

2. I don´t know what castle you mean?! The castle of TUFPack is no real "castle" and it should be a test zone with access to the sky rim world with a door. That castle I don´t like to overtake to a new mod, because I have other imaginations, how a castle has to look like. If i would create a castle mod on a place, where other stuff is, the user must decide what to prefer. I will of course TRY to have a FREE space and area, that is NOT be used by famous existing mods - I think that is logical. I have finally all oblivion meshes READY to go for sky rim and I can choose from the whole stuff of oblivion, what to build in into the game. The castle will have the surrounding walls, like you know from oblivion and the interior will be also like that. Maybe I will overtake a complete city like it has been done with BRUMA into sky rim. The castle is in that case one part, and the houses and the church will stand inside the city-wall area...A castle WITHOUT a city but looks different. And this will be before I create such a "city". The castle will have walls like the city, but will be much more smaller and I have to create NEW meshes for it. But I am sure that you will like it very much, because I ´ll put there my fantasy of "secret places" and secret doors, a dungeon like I think it has to look and again some areas, how I want it to look like (jail, wells in the deep, real round stairs down, torture-rooms, cage areas, slave areas, ....... I´ll merge the oblivion stuff with my ideas and I´m sure it will be much more beautiful, like the castle of TUFP. I mean, nobody will discuss the tufp-castle after that anymore;-))

 

 

 

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, t.ara said:

hi donkey;-)

 

1. the zap7 inside of my work and will work as usually, all new elements are added and use the same framework. Because all new things are registered like usually, there´s no reason, why mods that work with zap7 should not also work with all following versions. The only thing what will harm the zap 8 is an overwriting of another mod by exchanging some or one of the main-frame-scripts. In this case, the zap8 installation is obsolete and the pack melts down to zap7.0 with no access to the new items anymore. If you install ZEP for zap 7.0 over zap8, then you have this problem. Otherwise can you implement sep also into zap8.0, but it´s of course some work to do and the zep supporting - mod won´t take any advance on the new stuff, so it doesn´t make sense to install zap8. Every time, if your mod organizer shows you to overwrite data from a mod, you should be carefully participating, what is therewith happening and which results it will cause.

ZAP7=ZAP8 (with new stuff) = ZAP8PLUS (with again new stuff + double time animation possibilities)

 

 

2. I don´t know what castle you mean?! The castle of TUFPack is no real "castle" and it should be a test zone with access to the sky rim world with a door. That castle I don´t like to overtake to a new mod, because I have other imaginations, how a castle has to look like. If i would create a castle mod on a place, where other stuff is, the user must decide what to prefer. I will of course TRY to have a FREE space and area, that is NOT be used by famous existing mods - I think that is logical. I have finally all oblivion meshes READY to go for sky rim and I can choose from the whole stuff of oblivion, what to build in into the game. The castle will have the surrounding walls, like you know from oblivion and the interior will be also like that. Maybe I will overtake a complete city like it has been done with BRUMA into sky rim. The castle is in that case one part, and the houses and the church will stand inside the city-wall area...A castle WITHOUT a city but looks different. And this will be before I create such a "city". The castle will have walls like the city, but will be much more smaller and I have to create NEW meshes for it. But I am sure that you will like it very much, because I ´ll put there my fantasy of "secret places" and secret doors, a dungeon like I think it has to look and again some areas, how I want it to look like (jail, wells in the deep, real round stairs down, torture-rooms, cage areas, slave areas, ....... I´ll merge the oblivion stuff with my ideas and I´m sure it will be much more beautiful, like the castle of TUFP. I mean, nobody will discuss the tufp-castle after that anymore;-))

 

 

 

 

 

OK, thanks for being so helpful.  I appreciate that your English is very much better than my non existent German(?), but can I please just make absolutely sure that we are really agreeing on the same thing?

 

I understand how MO, and presumably NMM, can let other mods overwrite files from any version of ZAP and cause problems with ZAP functionality.  If you are saying that nothing you will do will overwrite the ZAP 7 files and their functionality, that is good,  and it should help others to have confidence in using later versions eg ZAP8, ZAP8+, as well as whatever you produce next

 

As for the 'castle', I had not assumed that you were going to include any previous versions, eg that in TUFP, in any version of ZAP 8 upwards.  However I do remember seeing a picture on one of the threads, now deleted, that showed some sort of large construction, like a castle, or even a fortified city, near Whiterun(?), which I thought you said would be included in a future ZAP.  That's what I'm worried about.  It would spoil the 'general' nature of the ZAP framework to include in it any non optional town, city, castle, etc which might create a major conflict with people's game setups, or anything that affects the game's infrastructure, especially if they have no choice on its appearing.  People would then not upgrade - I certainly could not put something like that into some of my existing MO game profiles -  and that would mean that your new toys did not then get the use they merit, and reduce the widespread use of your work, by users or other mod authors.  That would be a really bad thing 

 

So please, you may be making the best ever player castle, including everything that most of us have ever dreamed of, but please keep anything like that as a separate entity, outside of the ZAP 'framework', and let it be something we can install or not as suits our games 

 

Hope that's clear, and helpful

 

[t.ara]

13 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

OK, thanks for being so helpful.  I appreciate that your English is very much better than my non existent German(?), but can I please just make absolutely sure that we are really agreeing on the same thing?

 

I understand how MO, and presumably NMM, can let other mods overwrite files from any version of ZAP and cause problems with ZAP functionality.  If you are saying that nothing you will do will overwrite the ZAP 7 files and their functionality, that is good,  and it should help others to have confidence in using later versions eg ZAP8, ZAP8+, as well as whatever you produce next

 

As for the 'castle', I had not assumed that you were going to include any previous versions, eg that in TUFP, in any version of ZAP 8 upwards.  However I do remember seeing a picture on one of the threads, now deleted, that showed some sort of large construction, like a castle, or even a fortified city, near Whiterun(?), which I thought you said would be included in a future ZAP.  That's what I'm worried about.  It would spoil the 'general' nature of the ZAP framework to include in it any non optional town, city, castle, etc which might create a major conflict with people's game setups, or anything that affects the game's infrastructure, especially if they have no choice on it's appearing.  People would then not upgrade - I certainly could not put something like that into some of my existing MO game profiles -  and that would mean that your new toys did not then get the use they merit, and reduce the widespread use of your work, by users or other mod authors.  That would be a really bad thing 

 

So please, you may be making the best ever player castle, including everything that most of us have ever dreamed of, but please keep anything like that as a separate entity, outside of the ZAP 'framework', and let it be something we can install or not as suits our games 

 

Hope that's clear, and helpful

 

ggg...a landscape mod is a no go inside a resource:-)

BUT, you have in ZAP in between a resource, with which you can build up the OBLIVION prisons, it´s inside the folder ZaZ - PrisonPack with all it´s nessessary textures inside of zap. This has been a suiting attribute because it´s quite fine, to have alternative stuff running out of the zap with such a theme. A castle-resource won´t be inside of zap. It can happen, that I build specific furnitures, but they will always belong to zap and will have also the possibility, to be used universal, like the "shipbed" has this animation - which is also with the pillows available. So you can choose, what you want to take - if you build a ship-mod with the stuff of "the lost ships", you can use the ready made bed, if you want that furniture for a camp, you simply put the pillows somewhere down. With TES5EDIT you can delete the complete mod "secret-ships" and take full advance of the resource then - so you can offer alternative mods with that material, same will come with other resource stuff. I want, that other modders maybe also enjoy to create stuff from that "new" stuff. In that case TES5edit is your friend:-)  ...I could later also offer a "full pack" with all the created oblivion stuff as resource only: - ship theme, castle theme, city theme, cathedral theme, something like: "best of oblivion".

[Pfiffy]

8 hours ago, t.ara said:

ggg...a landscape mod is a no go inside a resource:-)

BUT, you have in ZAP in between a resource, with which you can build up the OBLIVION prisons, it´s inside the folder ZaZ - PrisonPack with all it´s nessessary textures inside of zap. This has been a suiting attribute because it´s quite fine, to have alternative stuff running out of the zap with such a theme. A castle-resource won´t be inside of zap. It can happen, that I build specific furnitures, but they will always belong to zap and will have also the possibility, to be used universal, like the "shipbed" has this animation - which is also with the pillows available. So you can choose, what you want to take - if you build a ship-mod with the stuff of "the lost ships", you can use the ready made bed, if you want that furniture for a camp, you simply put the pillows somewhere down. With TES5EDIT you can delete the complete mod "secret-ships" and take full advance of the resource then - so you can offer alternative mods with that material, same will come with other resource stuff. I want, that other modders maybe also enjoy to create stuff from that "new" stuff. In that case TES5edit is your friend:-)  ...I could later also offer a "full pack" with all the created oblivion stuff as resource only: - ship theme, castle theme, city theme, cathedral theme, something like: "best of oblivion".

I just wonder, what it takes to replace all vanilla cages, racks, chairs and beds with the ZAP models and make them 'interactive'...

 

Hm.. I thing replacing the Hearthfire Stuff would be a bit easier...

[DonQuiWho]

8 hours ago, t.ara said:

ggg...a landscape mod is a no go inside a resource:-)

BUT, you have in ZAP in between a resource, with which you can build up the OBLIVION prisons, it´s inside the folder ZaZ - PrisonPack with all it´s nessessary textures inside of zap. This has been a suiting attribute because it´s quite fine, to have alternative stuff running out of the zap with such a theme. A castle-resource won´t be inside of zap. It can happen, that I build specific furnitures, but they will always belong to zap and will have also the possibility, to be used universal, like the "shipbed" has this animation - which is also with the pillows available. So you can choose, what you want to take - if you build a ship-mod with the stuff of "the lost ships", you can use the ready made bed, if you want that furniture for a camp, you simply put the pillows somewhere down. With TES5EDIT you can delete the complete mod "secret-ships" and take full advance of the resource then - so you can offer alternative mods with that material, same will come with other resource stuff. I want, that other modders maybe also enjoy to create stuff from that "new" stuff. In that case TES5edit is your friend:-)  ...I could later also offer a "full pack" with all the created oblivion stuff as resource only: - ship theme, castle theme, city theme, cathedral theme, something like: "best of oblivion".

Thanks!  Especially for this bit!    'ggg...a landscape mod is a no go inside a resource:-)' 

 

FWIW, it might be worth making that a bit clearer on the 'Front Page' of the file download.  If you set all that out very explicitly, ie the Framework's 'operating content, its furniture assets content, and additional buildings and textures content, it might help overcome some of the fears that other users occasionally mention, and help people understand better what content is actually there for them to use as they build their own mods

 

Anyway, I am glad that you cleared that up for me, and I hope it helps others better understand the direction in which you are going

 

Again, too, thanks for all your efforts and interesting content   

 

 

[worik]

16 hours ago, t.ara said:

I will of course TRY to have a FREE space and area, that is NOT be used by famous existing mods - I think that is logical.

Not really belonging in here, but only to trigger the train of thought:

After oh-so-much years of busy modding, I guess the best approach is an exit point into a new (your own) worldspace. Similar as Fort Dawnguard is done (a hidden valley), or Moonpath to Elsewyre (a cart).

I advise against an island/ship ensamble, because too many mods already use ships and they occupy almost every free space in the docks

 

[jigwigigx]

For future refrence, If you run Devious Devices Integrated and you get the warping in space issue when using the coc zbftestzone command to teleport to the zaz test zone, here is how to fix it:

Download TESVedit from nexus and open DDi, then look for the zbftestzone reference (see screenshot), highlight it and press delete, then simply close the program and it will backup and save automatically. You should now be able to teleport to test zone.

[hodni]

when I go to ZbfTestzone I just end up in a blue place and just falling forever. When i checked console command for "help Zbftestzone" .. two of them appeared
How do I fix this?
Thank you

[t.ara]

24 minutes ago, hodni said:

when I go to ZbfTestzone I just end up in a blue place and just falling forever. When i checked console command for "help Zbftestzone" .. two of them appeared
How do I fix this?
Thank you

Clean the DD mod (read some lines backward inside of this thread)

[Andarus]

I absolutely can't get ZAZ8(+) to work. 7.0 runs fine but with 8.0 or Plus I always crash when I trying to start a Game.

[worik]

4 hours ago, Andarus said:

I absolutely can't get ZAZ8(+) to work. 7.0 runs fine but with 8.0 or Plus I always crash when I trying to start a Game.

Sounds like a missing dependency. Can you tell when exactly you CTD? Before or while the Skyrim main menu appears? Later?

And your load order might be a thing. Especially everything before ZAP8

[Andarus]

3 hours ago, worik said:

Sounds like a missing dependency. Can you tell when exactly you CTD? Before or while the Skyrim main menu appears? Later?

And your load order might be a thing. Especially everything before ZAP8

Nope, its something with the FNIS Behaviors. I disabled the Meshes folder and it works. The Plugins aren't the problem. I deleted the complete ZAZ 7.0 Folder before I updated, so its no old Files fucking stuff up.

I crash when I try to COC, New Game or load a existing Game. Its when it loads the Animations/FNIS.

 

It looks like something goes wrong when I run FNIS 7.0XXL with ZAZ 8.0. I tried using 6.3 again but with a little over 12k Animations I get a ERROR there.

[Huili]

3 hours ago, Andarus said:

It looks like something goes wrong when I run FNIS 7.0XXL with ZAZ 8.0. I tried using 6.3 again but with a little over 12k Animations I get a ERROR there.

Hey. I have a similar problem, but it seems that it does not depend on the version of Zaz, I just get CTD when there are more than 11400 animations. Crash Fixes and Load Game CTD Fix also does not solve the problem, I get the same error in the Crash Fixes log . Game has crashed with exception address 0xBE6DD3!

[t.ara]

3 hours ago, Andarus said:

Nope, its something with the FNIS Behaviors. I disabled the Meshes folder and it works. The Plugins aren't the problem. I deleted the complete ZAZ 7.0 Folder before I updated, so its no old Files fucking stuff up.

I crash when I try to COC, New Game or load a existing Game. Its when it loads the Animations/FNIS.

 

It looks like something goes wrong when I run FNIS 7.0XXL with ZAZ 8.0. I tried using 6.3 again but with a little over 12k Animations I get a ERROR there.

Maybe you reached simply the limit of fnis. My Version 6.3xxl yesterday was also not working anymore, collapsing at 3450+ animations for 10 mods, including 608 alternate animations (fnis-& XPMSE mods only), 290 furnitures and 50 Offsets....normally it should Support 12000 animations.

So I took v.7 and now I have the next headroom.

I´m summing 1 and 1 together: a Special constellation of mods maybe has a negative impact on the fnis-performance. And if people use over 10000 animations and try to use zap 8.0 plus too , the chance of a fnis collapse is quickly increasing. In my opinion you can only begin to melt down the Animation amount and choose that stuff, what is really making you happy Ingame.

Be happy, if you can get over 10000 beside the zap8 with fnis 6.3xxl !!! I can´t.

 

p.s. maybe the Version 6.3xxl has little bugs that create this error in specific circumstances

p.s. I would be lucky if I could now install over 16000 animations beside the zap 8.0 plus - (FNIS 7.0XXL)

 

 

[Andarus]

1 hour ago, Huili said:

Hey. I have a similar problem, but it seems that it does not depend on the version of Zaz, I just get CTD when there are more than 11400 animations. Crash Fixes and Load Game CTD Fix also does not solve the problem, I get the same error in the Crash Fixes log . Game has crashed with exception address 0xBE6DD3!

That could be it. I reduced my Animations to 10600 and it worked. I dont even know where I got so many animations from. I bet I dont use 50% of them.

[t.ara]

Some mods are not using their whole amount of animations and I did not use some stuff for 100%...in such a case I am deleting the mod and start alternative sollutions: PCEA2 is really nice, but the most stuff is not used at the same time, as I Play for a lot of time ALWAYS with the same idles-content   with my character, I deleted that mod, created again the <<FEMALE>>  Folder inside of "animations" and now skyrim picks up the idles for the females from there, filled it with my prefered idles and my game works like before. Another interesting stuff is a random idle-mod, that can spread over every npc another idle randomly. But for the start today and before I will check out that random-stuff , I´ll create my own beloved idle (LL-Gamers do want maybe a different sort of idlles to watch at) and it will be much more longer as a standard-idle and should show the character in various - standing poses - this may also lead to more immersive gameplay. If you have access to different idles (sexy idles...), you can use that random-idle mod  to expand the stereotype "idling" of npcs as well, but you must "feed" it! -with suitiing animations.

[Andarus]

7 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Some mods are not using their whole amount of animations and I did not use some stuff for 100%...in such a case I am deleting the mod and start alternative sollutions: PCEA2 is really nice, but the most stuff is not used at the same time, as I Play ALWAYS with the same idle and the same idle- animations for my character, I screwed that mod again down, created the FEMALE Folder inside of "animations" and now skyrim picks up the idles for the females from there again. Another interesting stuff is a random idle-mod, that can spread over every npc another idle randomly. Today, I´ll create my own beloved idle and it will be LITTLE longer and Show the character in various -Standing poses. If you have acces on different idles, you can use that random-idle mod to expand the stereotype "idling" of npcs as well.

Yep I use both of them. But I think my Random Idle only works on my PC and not on NPCs. I thought about removing it since the Male Idles from Realistic Animation Project are kinda boring and I mostly play Males. But with my 450 Mods I can't even remember what Mods I installed that add Animations. I just removed a SLAL Pack, that should be enough for now.

 

I really hope Bethesdas next Game does not suck and has a new Engine with less limiations. Most of Modding nowadays is to fix workarounds for the Engine-Limitations. How much time I have to spend with Merging Plugins or fixing HDT/Animation problems. T.T

[FeuerPsycho]

Hey i get the CTD with V8 too using FNIS 7 XXL on a fresh installation(added Sexlab stuff and DD). Before i purged my setup yesterday the game would run with FNIS 7XXL  V7 Pack and over 13000 animations(FNIS 7XXL allows 20k animations if I read the nexusmod page correctly) :-(

[Piiska]

1 hour ago, FeuerPsycho said:

Hey i get the CTD with V8 too using FNIS 7 XXL on a fresh installation(added Sexlab stuff and DD). Before i purged my setup yesterday the game would run with FNIS 7XXL  V7 Pack and over 13000 animations(FNIS 7XXL allows 20k animations if I read the nexusmod page correctly) :-(

First make sure you didn't miss any requirements for the mods you installed and if you didn't, I'd suggest disabling couple animation packs and see if it works then. There may be a limit the game can handle but I know that V8 works for me with FNIS 7 XXL and I have over 11k animations.

[t.ara]

31 minutes ago, Piiska said:

First make sure you didn't miss any requirements for the mods you installed and if you didn't, I'd suggest disabling couple animation packs and see if it works then. There may be a limit the game can handle but I know that V8 works for me with FNIS 7 XXL and I have over 11k animations.

So this is a good news.

[FeuerPsycho]

2 hours ago, Piiska said:

First make sure you didn't miss any requirements for the mods you installed and if you didn't, I'd suggest disabling couple animation packs and see if it works then. There may be a limit the game can handle but I know that V8 works for me with FNIS 7 XXL and I have over 11k animations.

Thanks for giving me hope. I was starting to second guessing myself if it ever worked with that many animations or I imagined it. Gonna try to get there again.

[Andarus]

3 hours ago, Piiska said:

First make sure you didn't miss any requirements for the mods you installed and if you didn't, I'd suggest disabling couple animation packs and see if it works then. There may be a limit the game can handle but I know that V8 works for me with FNIS 7 XXL and I have over 11k animations.

The limit seems to be 12.000 for some reason. I enabled a few more animations and at 12057 it crashed and at 11870 it worked. Not sure why FNIS XXL than offers up to 20.000?

 

3 hours ago, t.ara said:

I have seen the online game of bethesda (as a further development) and it is.......:-((((((

I would not expect something very more innovative coming...and if, you will not have any access as modder like on skyrim, or you don´t like the title or the genre.

Compare Skyrim-modding with Skyrim SE-modding (also in the next years).

 

Bethesda is not retarded. They know they need to offer Modsupport or their Games wont succeed. There will be a new Engine and BGS can't be that stupid to make the same mistakes again. Best case would be a GameBryo 2.0 basically build from the ground up using the same meshes and maybe even the same plugin format. But most likely its something completely new. But the Engine will be made with Modding in mind from the start.

But StarField (2018 Release?) will probably still use the FO4 Engine.

But TESVI (2021 at best?) will 100% have a new Engine.

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Andarus said:

The limit seems to be 12.000 for some reason. I enabled a few more animations and at 12057 it crashed and at 11870 it worked. Not sure why FNIS XXL than offers up to 20.000?

 

FNIS XXL offers 20,000 because people kept begging for a version with a higher maximum.  It says right on the download page that using the XXL version may cause load CTDs, because having too many animations is a known factor for crashes like that. 

 

It is probably also setup and type of animation dependent, since some people can get 14k+ animations no problem while others add one more SLAL pack and can no longer load the game.  Basically, the game engine can only take so much and we shouldn't blame the tools available for letting us break it.

[Pfiffy]

can we get some cuffs on the wheels, too?

[Pfiffy]

21 minutes ago, t.ara said:

"Riverwood Handcart Bondage Thrill" ................

a "slave dealer" and his handcart-caravan had been killed by a dragon, now the handcarts are left behind, standing around with their slaves inside....

 

Do you want to add some follower to ZAP?

Instead of placing it somewhere in the worldspace I would prefer to replace the existing ones. The first thing for me would be to replace the bed, chairs and tables. But first I will take a look at hearthfire. The homes need some chages in decoration. I'm thinking of large testing area...