Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

So the next deal will have elements of that but it's not gonna be overwhelming so don't get your hopes up too much but the idea is fun ^^. There is potential I may expand upon it at a future date but I need to make it first.

Sounds sexy, looking forward to what you come up with. 

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

Deals.....

6, 3 stage deals

Have some deals have alternate level 3 outcomes (if possible all 6 have alternate stage 3s) 

Add a few 1 stage deals (like the time extension deal)

Rework/polish some of the older deals.

 

Meaning players will able to pick and chose the kind of slave they want to be or have everything on and enjoy you random spiral into slavedom.

This will also fix the deals people don't like since there should be enough choice ^^.

That sounds like a pretty awesome goal - and I especially love the idea of alternate level 3 outcomes.  I definitely like some deals more than others (especially at level 3), and with this level of choice it would be really easy to adjust deals to individual preference and still have lots of deals available to take.

 

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

I never feel... damn the mod breaks my game or this mod gets in the way so I need to uninstall it.

I second this feeling - one of the reasons DF has been great for my game so far because it was *very* easy to adapt to my playstyle without it actually changing the way I play my game much.  It also works just fine in almost all content, as I've been dragging my devious follower through major mod-added quests, the entirety of the Dawnguard expansion, and countless vanilla dungeons and quests.  The only time I ever feel the need to pause it is if I'm going to play a dedicated adult quest mod like Whiterun Brothel where I'll spend a lot of time with little to no control of my character, and a follower just wouldn't make sense (much less one asking for money).

 

Thanks for the big plans post, looks great to me!

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Lozeak said:

I have spent a lot of time playing overwatch and relaxing. I did spend like a day trying to work out FNIS/Animations because I really miss the crawling animation and I may have a solution without making ZEP a hard requirement but I 100% can't use the crawling animation from the nexus because it just doesn't seem to play ball when using it with FNIS without messing with the animation it's self and having 0 knowledge on that.

If you think about it, there's another mod that you do depend on, that has a crawling animation...

 

Crawling is used in DD4.1 now, so you can reference that asset and look at the code they use to do it.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Lozeak said:

It could be a super strong troll so that you can be in a ton of bondage and have to let it do all the work for you and stuff basically you end up leading a troll round and carry the loot for to sell and being it's plaything when it's bored.

I'll repeat my "joke" about how SLAV already exists. It is already the premier, "your follower makes you redundant" mod out there, and does also heap tons on bondage on you, even if it has no meaningful effect. I didn't enjoy that part of SLAV because it made your ability to play the actual "game of Skyrim" all but irrelevant. You could equip prisoner's rags and Nettlebane, and still win the game.

 

The fan idea sounds more interesting to me. Forced follower is one thing, but making player actions irrelevant is another.

Vending stuff is the most boring part of the game. Personally, I don't want it to be the most important as well.

 

My preference for forced follower is that you nominate the follower and the mod makes up the reason.

Then you could pick whoever you want, Ben Doon, Succubus San, Bora ... whoever you like.

 

However, when I first mentioned forced follower as a desired feature, it was as something that would only trigger under certain circumstances, such as a combat defeat outcome, but softer than a simple slavery start - maybe the follower is your rescuer after a defeat or Frostfall hypothermia...

 

 

This leads to something that's puzzled me for ages... The option to make it so that when the follower is assaulted, it costs you lives...

 

If you have DCL, this is disabled completely, even if you have other ways to get assaulted.

 

But I don't understand it. If you have DCL, you don't even need to detect follower rapes!

All you need to do is detect the MCM setting that determines that follower gets handled by DCL, and then if the player is in a rape scene the follower must have been in one too.

You don't need to know anything about what happened to the follower, you just trust DCL to work as intended.

 

Or am I wrong?

[Krazyone]

Idea... various followers have various attributes.

 

Lydia... your starter follower, and most beloved. She is strong, so she favours dominating you.

- Wake up more often than not to her playing with you in your sleep, sexually or equipping stuff onto you for an hour or two.

 

Various types...

 

- Strong followers... Dominant styles. Strong follower, like dominating you, adding devious items to you for a couple of hours each morning. Wake up to suprises, sex, bondage gear for a short while, dressing you up, stripping off your clothing as you sleep and refusing to give you them back for a few hours.

 

- Kinky... May sell your ass on the street, whoring you out with a Prostitute collar each morning. Non compliance strips your clothing 9am to 11am, increasing arousal to all around you to full.

 

- Money grabber... They'll do anything to get you to give them more money. Whore you out with a Prostitute collar each morning and evening 9 - 11 am, and 9 - 11 pm. Force you into random sex acts with strangers for money, whipping your ass.

 

- Passive nymphomaniac... They want to be dominated, and are a funny follower to have. They will do stuff to get you to have sex with them, change clothes, strip off their clothes, dress in bondage gear they find in chests. Find them having sex with you, when you wake up after sleeping.

 

 

Prostitute collar... opens with 3 sex acts.

 

Just some ideas... 

[Lozeak]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I'll repeat my "joke" about how SLAV already exists. It is already the premier, "your follower makes you redundant" mod out there, and does also heap tons on bondage on you, even if it has no meaningful effect. I didn't enjoy that part of SLAV because it made your ability to play the actual "game of Skyrim" all but irrelevant. You could equip prisoner's rags and Nettlebane, and still win the game.

 

The fan idea sounds more interesting to me. Forced follower is one thing, but making player actions irrelevant is another.

Vending stuff is the most boring part of the game. Personally, I don't want it to be the most important as well.

 

My preference for forced follower is that you nominate the follower and the mod makes up the reason.

Then you could pick whoever you want, Ben Doon, Succubus San, Bora ... whoever you like.

 

However, when I first mentioned forced follower as a desired feature, it was as something that would only trigger under certain circumstances, such as a combat defeat outcome, but softer than a simple slavery start - maybe the follower is your rescuer after a defeat or Frostfall hypothermia...

 

 

This leads to something that's puzzled me for ages... The option to make it so that when the follower is assaulted, it costs you lives...

 

If you have DCL, this is disabled completely, even if you have other ways to get assaulted.

 

But I don't understand it. If you have DCL, you don't even need to detect follower rapes!

All you need to do is detect the MCM setting that determines that follower gets handled by DCL, and then if the player is in a rape scene the follower must have been in one too.

You don't need to know anything about what happened to the follower, you just trust DCL to work as intended.

 

Or am I wrong?

 

So like i said the troll thing would be an enslavement outcome so it can do things that are ment to be undesirable for the player so not being able to do much ect is the price for you not making deals to keep you debt down and not making deals and like I said if you don't like the alternate enslave outcome then just disable it. Regardless, it's not gonna be added anytime soon.

 

You can select the forced follower you get sent to in the MCM when you are sent there by simple slavery.

 

So no you can't just make it so when you get raped the follower loses life, if the follower rapes you I'd need to detect that, I'd need to detect if the player is getting raped via another mod (not DCL) ect.

 

At the end of the day, in sexlab you can flag an NPC or player as victim and my mod detects that, if a mod does not do this I'm not putting time in to fixing/working out solutions for specific mods, mainly cause I consider it a minor feature of the mod. I'll ask Kimy on the DCL post when I get a chance to add that flag but if the post gets missed or it's too much effort then, that's just the way it is.

 

Edit: Is there a crawling animation in DCL or do you mean the pet suit animation cause that is not the same thing?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

Edit: Is there a crawling animation in DCL or do you mean the pet suit animation cause that is not the same thing?

The pet suit animation is not the crawling animation that keeps cropping up over and over (and SLAV also pulled it out and used it by itself, so there's an example of how you do it, SD+ being the other obvious one) ... but it is a crawling animation. Obviously, it has arms and legs bent in pet-suit position. The main problem with it is that it's painfully slow at the rate DD plays it.

 

I don't think DCL has a crawl feature anywhere, but I suppose it might get one.

 

Yes, it's nice you can set the SS target follower, but I was talking about situations that aren't SS that could be detected (one day, maybe), like Frostfall rescues.

 

With the troll, my objection isn't that it makes you do painful and annoying things, my objection is that it is super-tough so your fighting gets downplayed and your only important job is to loot and vend to shopkeepers. Making looting and vending to shopkeepers your main job is essentially what SLAV does, because nothing else matters once you've enabled Nocturnal. Typically you get a bunch of punishments that further cripple you, and it doesn't matter, because ... Nocturnal.

 

Don't replicate that, it's been done already

 

I'm sure there's a way to have the troll and keep the player relevant as something other than a janitor.

 

 

Krazyone's ideas for different follower personalities are interesting, especially the ones likes Passive Nympho that would make the follower do more interesting things.

 

 

With the lives thing, it's one thing to not want to struggle with supporting lame mods, but DCL is a special case... Though it's certainly worth asking why it doesn't set the victim flag; but I'd imagine there's a reason.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

 

So like i said the troll thing would be an enslavement outcome so it can do things that are ment to be undesirable for the player so not being able to do much ect is the price for you not making deals to keep you debt down and not making deals and like I said if you don't like the alternate enslave outcome then just disable it. Regardless, it's not gonna be added anytime soon.

I personally really like the idea of the "super troll" being your forced guardian while you try to make good on all your enslavement debts.  I'd welcome it as an alternate slavery scenario outcome, especially if it could be directly tied into Simple Slavery.  Obviously the hope would be that you wouldn't be in that situation for very long assuming you applied yourself to making money.  If your debts did not increase while under the troll's control the situation would have a finite end, assuming the player doesn't decide they like that playstyle and keeps the troll ala Untamed (but that's player choice at that point).  As an alternate enslavement outcome, it could also be disabled by people who really don't like the idea of an OP follower doing everything (or constant troll sex ).

 

It might be tough to scale the troll properly to be a competent guardian at higher levels - IMO for a "helpless PC" scenario it would be better to err on the side of overpowering the troll.  The fact it may be a one-shot murder machine may make up for the fact it would have zero ranged ability which definitely matters in some scenarios.

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Edit: Is there a crawling animation in DCL or do you mean the pet suit animation cause that is not the same thing?

I'm pretty sure the petsuit animation is the only crawling animation in DD4.1 - since the animation includes the folding arms/legs I think it could only be really used as an example of how you might be able to implement a crawling animation like ZEP does.

 

That being said, I'd recommend asking a fellow modder like Kimy or others or Zaira for help to create a Devious Followers stand-alone item that uses the Nexus crawl animation rather than try to figure out FNIS and alternate animations cold-turkey.  Especially if you really just want the one animation, if one of them can either put it together for you or walk you through making the item it may make your life much easier. 

 

Then you wouldn't have to worry about using assets from other mods like ZEP, and could use the crawling animation whenever you wanted in your mod - for example the player could be forced to crawl in a small scene like a game, or a deal could require that the player crawl in town (pet play deal?  level 3 lets the follower make you "play" with other pets of the canine variety when they want? ).  The crawling animation could even be set up like the new DD pony play animations and work off a simple keyword - meaning you could "hide" the item used to trigger the animations with something like an invisible ring, and not necessarily require an actual Devious Device slot making the animations much easier to use.

[Reesewow]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

With the lives thing, it's one thing to not want to struggle with supporting lame mods, but DCL is a special case... Though it's certainly worth asking why it doesn't set the victim flag; but I'd imagine there's a reason.

It's likely just an oversight IMO, I believe the victim flag is set properly for most player-npc interactions in DCL and mods like Defeat/Aroused Creatures have NPC-NPC victim flags set properly without issue. 

 

In my game my followers are almost never "used" in DCL scenes - the only scene I run in DCL that picks them up is the flashbang trap because I have follower detection turned off (a Devious Follower getting stuck in DD while having an infinite supply of keys is a bit too much suspension of disbelief for me, plus they are a pain to remove constantly from followers).  Instead my followers are "victims" through several other great mods - namely Defeat and Aroused Creatures. 

 

While I haven't done extensive testing on the setting itself, I like the idea that if I let my follower be horny dogbait in town too often without helping them or screw up and get the team worked over by horny bandits, I better find them a bed soon or they are gonna get cranky.  Hopefully the victim flag can be added to DCL events as well, especially since the next version of that mod is being worked on.

[Lupine00]

You don't have to figure out the FNIS, it's already been done over and over for the crawl - though the documentation for FNIS for modders is fairly transparent.

 

Another place you can see it being used is in Slaverun 3.X - and it was my adding the FNIS for an early version of Slaverun 3.X that caused all the grief I had with ZEP conflicting on FNIS build. That said, it would be possible to have multiple versions without conflicts, but Slaverun used the same name as the ZEP one. (Made it impossible to find the mod that was the cause of the conflict because it was a manual edit to the animation list that I'd made myself. Doh).

[Lupine00]

It's one thing for DCL victim flags not to be set, but why block even turning the option on if DCL is installed?

 

After all, you don't know if rape is even enabled in DCL (unless you check the mcm value, which you can).

[Lozeak]

17 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

You don't have to figure out the FNIS, it's already been done over and over for the crawl - though the documentation for FNIS for modders is fairly transparent.

 

Another place you can see it being used is in Slaverun 3.X - and it was my adding the FNIS for an early version of Slaverun 3.X that caused all the grief I had with ZEP conflicting on FNIS build. That said, it would be possible to have multiple versions without conflicts, but Slaverun used the same name as the ZEP one. (Made it impossible to find the mod that was the cause of the conflict because it was a manual edit to the animation list that I'd made myself. Doh).

 

When you say You don't have to figure out the FNIS then say he documentation for FNIS for modders is fairly transparent.

You do understand reading the documentation is figuring out FNIS.

 

13 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

It's one thing for DCL victim flags not to be set, but why block even turning the option on if DCL is installed?

 

After all, you don't know if rape is even enabled in DCL (unless you check the mcm value, which you can).

 

I don't block the option.

 

It's DCL choice not to flag the follower as a victim so my mod can't react to it simple as. I'm not gonna be working on patching things like this, it's backward and a waste of time.

[Corsayr]

1 minute ago, Lozeak said:

It's DCL choice not to flag the follower as a victim so my mod can't react to it simple as. I'm not gonna be working on patching things like this, it's backward and a waste of time.

So just to be clear. If you have DCL installed the life loss when victim works but not for DCL rape? Other rapes do work? Or is the feature fully off if DCL is loaded?

[Lozeak]

4 minutes ago, Corsayr said:

So just to be clear. If you have DCL installed the life loss when victim works but not for DCL rape? Other rapes do work? Or is the feature fully off if DCL is loaded?

 

Yes if enabled in the MCM it works every time a mod flags a follower as a Victim regardless of what is installed.

 

[Polonium]

What are the current games and their requirements? I get the game in the jarls palace fairly often, but the other games are elusive.

[Reesewow]

7 minutes ago, Polonium said:

What are the current games and their requirements? I get the game in the jarls palace fairly often, but the other games are elusive.

Most of the other games generally trigger on having a specific type of device equipped while at low willpower or high debt while in certain types of locations.  There are some hints in the FAQ on the download page: 

 

Spoiler

Games? (or I just want to see the porn)
Games/events are mini events when your follower catchs you off guard it is based on what you are wearing device wise/willpower/debt.
List of em.
w/ low will or over half enslavement debt. 

Inn- sleep in a inn with a gag 
Jacket - in a dungeon with a blindfold
Stables- Bondage boots in the wilderness (maybe dungeon) (blocked by bondage gloves)
Enslaved (babe2) - It's just on a timer.
They can be blocked by other devices (getting in the way) or quest devices. 

 

Biggest thing to note is that games require certain DD slots to be free, and won't trigger if you already have devices filling those slots.  For example the boots game won't trigger while wearing bondage gloves, otherwise the boots/gloves deal would constantly be triggering it.  I've found Cursed Loot is a great way to trigger some of these games, as I'll often get "played with" at low willpower directly after getting a cursed loot event that puts the correct item on my PC unless I remove it immediately. 

[cailic]

Perhaps you could make it so we select what followers charge you.  Or make is so we select either male or female followers charge you.  Or perhaps be able select certain followers as not "hired". 

 

Here's the issue, I'm starting out as a vagrant, trying to make money whoring out female npcs.  They don't earn much and they take their part of the profits after each job.  It's slow going as it is.  After affording a house and better equipment, I would like to hire a male bodyguard to do some dungeon expeditions. 

 

For now I have to uninstall your mod and re-install it when I'm ready.  I'd rather not do that since Skyrim is flaky about scripts and load order and just about everything else. 

 

This may or may not be beneficial to other players and I don't want to "siderail" the job you are already doing.  This just a suggestion for if you have the time or the inclination.

 

Thanks so much for this mod. 

[Cock Sucker]

just started the mod, doing the settings and the following happened (pixx)

 

what causes this error?

 

[Reesewow]

35 minutes ago, cailic said:

For now I have to uninstall your mod and re-install it when I'm ready.  I'd rather not do that since Skyrim is flaky about scripts and load order and just about everything else. 

 

This may or may not be beneficial to other players and I don't want to "siderail" the job you are already doing.  This just a suggestion for if you have the time or the inclination.

 

Thanks so much for this mod. 

Um, why not just use the "Pause" option in the debug menu?  That will keep the mod in an deactivated state for the most part until you are ready to start paying.

 

There is also already a "ignore this NPC" option in the debug menu, so even when not paused you can mark NPCs that you don't want charging you before you ask them to follow.

 

@KM100z that looks like you are missing the localized string files - you can try CGI's version here just incase the file you need is missing on the main download.

 

 

[Corsayr]

30 minutes ago, KM100z said:

just started the mod, doing the settings and the following happened (pixx)

 

what causes this error?

 

Just looks like a text lookup issue. All that box should say is that you need to exit the MCM menu for it to process that request. When you exited it should have scanned for the nearest NPC and set that as the one you will be sold to in the event of a simple slavery outcome. Did that happen correctly?

 

A lot of reason for that to fail though. Which version are you using? Do you use the file from the download page or CGI's FOMOD version? Did you do a clean save to install on your last upgrade? 

[Lozeak]

49 minutes ago, cailic said:

Perhaps you could make it so we select what followers charge you.  Or make is so we select either male or female followers charge you.  Or perhaps be able select certain followers as not "hired". 

 

Here's the issue, I'm starting out as a vagrant, trying to make money whoring out female npcs.  They don't earn much and they take their part of the profits after each job.  It's slow going as it is.  After affording a house and better equipment, I would like to hire a male bodyguard to do some dungeon expeditions. 

 

For now I have to uninstall your mod and re-install it when I'm ready.  I'd rather not do that since Skyrim is flaky about scripts and load order and just about everything else. 

 

This may or may not be beneficial to other players and I don't want to "siderail" the job you are already doing.  This just a suggestion for if you have the time or the inclination.

 

Thanks so much for this mod. 

There is a way to disable certain NPCs in the menu.

There is also a pause function in the mod when you don't want it to run.

46 minutes ago, KM100z said:

just started the mod, doing the settings and the following happened (pixx)

 

what causes this error?

 

It ment to say please exit MCM, I'll have it fixed next version.

[Cock Sucker]

52 minutes ago, Corsayr said:

Just looks like a text lookup issue. All that box should say is that you need to exit the MCM menu for it to process that request. When you exited it should have scanned for the nearest NPC and set that as the one you will be sold to in the event of a simple slavery outcome. Did that happen correctly?

 

A lot of reason for that to fail though. Which version are you using? Do you use the file from the download page or CGI's FOMOD version? Did you do a clean save to install on your last upgrade? 

 

the current on the DL page 1.56 then the 1.56a patch. its a new game and fresh mod install ie 1st time using mod and I was using Lydia as a test and seemed to work (pixx)

 

[cailic]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Um, why not just use the "Pause" option in the debug menu?  That will keep the mod in an deactivated state for the most part until you are ready to start paying.

 

There is also already a "ignore this NPC" option in the debug menu, so even when not paused you can mark NPCs that you don't want charging you before you ask them to follow.

 

@KM100z that looks like you are missing the localized string files - you can try CGI's version here just incase the file you need is missing on the main download.

 

 

Ya, I thought about the pause option a little while ago.  Didn't see the ignore npc option.  Thanks for that. And thank you Lozeak as well.

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, Lozeak said:

When you say You don't have to figure out the FNIS then say he documentation for FNIS for modders is fairly transparent.

You do understand reading the documentation is figuring out FNIS.

Sometimes it's hard to be clear on the internet.

 

What I mean is that:

(a) crawling is done, it's a solved problem, you don't have to understand anything in FNIS, you just copy SD+ or SLAV, or ZEP, or Slaverun's use of the assets.

(b) but if you had to work it out, the FNIS part it is not a big obstacle, because FNIS is actually well documented, unlike most Skyrim mods.

 

But I'm just saying not to get intimidated by it. Crawling in DF would be ok I guess, but I think it's a feature that works best when used highly selectively. SLAV makes it into a bit of a joke (on purpose I guess, because SLAV is like that). I think it kind of spoiled crawling for me after that.

 

As for...

19 hours ago, Lozeak said:

19 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's one thing for DCL victim flags not to be set, but why block even turning the option on if DCL is installed?

 

After all, you don't know if rape is even enabled in DCL (unless you check the mcm value, which you can).

 

I don't block the option.

I guess you might not be aware, or maybe it was fixed in a fairly recent version, but in 1.56a when I click on the box to enable it, nothing happens, the box does not 'tick'.

And this was the same in every other version of DF I've installed, going back to 1.15, maybe further.

 

So this tickbox not responding to input ... I just assumed it was working as intended because I have DCL installed, so it wouldn't let me enable it...

 

Is that incorrect? Am I supposed to be able to tick the box for follower lives lost when victim, even if I have DCL installed?

Because I can't, and I haven't been able to in four or five completely different LO builds.

 

I didn't try removing DCL to see it if got enabled, but as the hover info tells me it doesn't work with DCL ... didn't even question it.

 

Can other people, who have DCL installed, tick that box?

[Tenri]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I guess you might not be aware, or maybe it was fixed in a fairly recent version, but in 1.56a when I click on the box to enable it, nothing happens, the box does not 'tick'.

And this was the same in every other version of DF I've installed, going back to 1.15, maybe further.

 

So this tickbox not responding to input ... I just assumed it was working as intended because I have DCL installed, so it wouldn't let me enable it...

 

Is that incorrect? Am I supposed to be able to tick the box for follower lives lost when victim, even if I have DCL installed?

Because I can't, and I haven't been able to in four or five completely different LO builds.

 

I didn't try removing DCL to see it if got enabled, but as the hover info tells me it doesn't work with DCL ... didn't even question it.

 

Can other people, who have DCL installed, tick that box?

I can confirm the the checkbox does function with DCL installed, can not confirm that the feature works as I haven't really tested it. The checkbox is a bit off in that after you click it once, change page then back it should check/uncheck. It doesn't update while on the page.

[bubba999]

Pardon my ignance: What is SLAV?