SkyrimLL mods open beta thread

[foreveraloneguy]

10 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

With the tentacle monster, I suspect that as it replaces the body, it doesn't matter whether it's CBBE or UUNP, but I think Aradia stuff was all UNP originally.

A body replacer armor like this is usually easy to do; it's tight fitting armors without a body in that I find a PITA, because they'll clip one way when skinny, and another with huge inflated boobs. I'll probably have time to do it next week.

It matters a lot, because the UV maps are not the same.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Depends on the Alicia. If it is the one to the side by the river, you can probably ignore her.

 

The most important ones are the one next to the landing site and the redguard one next to the bridge.

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, foreveraloneguy said:

It matters a lot, because the UV maps are not the same.

I think you misunderstand - I'm well aware of the distinction between UNP and CBBE UV mappings - I make my own skin textures.

 

But in this case, as it may have had its own texture. It would not matter whether your main body is mapped UNP or CBBE.

Many 'naked' body replacers do this. It has its up and its down sides. Up side is your armor is body agnostic.

 

However, I've inspected tentacle monster, and it uses the standard body texture, so unfortunately, it does matter. I was trying to be optimistic.

 

Progress below...
 

Spoiler

 

Moving on with this, the original DixiePig assets were for CBBE and Manga body (which is also CBBE family), which makes conversion to bodyslide with CBBE mapping a no-brainer

 

This raises the interesting question of where the UNP asset came from. Both DBF and Kimy sourced one from somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.

Googling this, found so many great conversions of armors I want to try now!

 

Seems Kimy is using the Dianne UUNP and CBBE conversions - file names are a giveaway really - and Dianne specifies no use restrictions or even claims rights to the files, probably because they are conversions in the first place. Meanwhile, DixiePig allows free use, so I guess the Tentacle Armor UNP Bodyslide is a done job. So, the bodyslide conversions already exists and can be used without explicit permission - they aren't a special DCL deal - contact DixiePig and Dianne as a courtesy - I'm guessing DixiePig is already aware it's used in Parasites. What's still puzzling me is where the basic UNP mesh in Parasites came from (though I'm guessing it was made from the Dianne Bodyslide). But maybe not? Did somebody do a static UNP conversion at some point?

 

Archaeology!

 

I really want to retexture this with a Giger vibe when I have time; if it turns out good I'll worry about permissions and what to do with it then.

 

So, short version... You can use the already existing Dianne Bodyslide conversions, which can be found on LL here:

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2335-diannes-bodyslide-conversions-cbbeuunp/

or more specifically:

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2320-tentacle-parasite-cbbe-uunp-bodyslide-hdt/

 

The "living armor" is a different story, but I just finished up with this ... haven't started digging into that properly yet ... but I think that I'll probably find Bodyslides exist already, and it just needs HDT HH removing and replacing.

 

On another topic ... you need to put this in ... Parasites? SD+? Doesn't matter... Reminds me of the spriggan armor, but on nightmare fuel steroids.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/54930

Use permissions are not restrictive. There's a UNP bodyslide made by Slash197, that I assume at least functions mostly, and my first look suggests that there are already CBBE and UNP meshes. OK, the textures look muddy, blurred and low-res, but that can be fixed.

[Bane Master]

Hi,

 

I don't know if you are interested but here are versions of the  071beta SLP_playeralias and slp_fcts_parasites scripts with native (dependency free) Sexlab Inflation Framework support.

 

It's only one line in the playeralias script and a few more in slp_fcts_parasites so if you have made any further edits at your end I would be happy to add the code to the updated versions.

 

slp_fcts_parasites.psc

slp_playeralias.psc

[Lupine00]

It would also be neat if Hormones and Parasites communicated to each what inflation levels they were aiming for in StorageUtil items, so they can automatically 'add' their combined inflations in a smart way.

 

e.g.

If you've got boobs of 1.8 from parasites, and boobs of 1.6 from hormones, that's 0.8 + 0.6 delta boob growth, so they could club together and set a boob size of 2.4

 

Probably if Hormones detects parasites installed, it should take over all the node modifications for it, and just read the deltas from storage util items set by parasites (because the MCM for nodes is way nicer in Hormones).

...

in the absence of SLIF that is.

 

 

Personally, I don't use SLIF. I set my NiOverride options to "Maximum" for scales and morphs. It's not perfect, but nothing terribly bad happens.

Spoiler

But between SLIF and various "SLIF compatible" mods, I've had to abandon several games. I put that in "" quotes, because clearly they weren't as compatible as they were supposed to be. There comes a point where you think, "this is not helping me."

 

Or SLIF went bad. Or stack dumps all around broke something and SLIF was an innocent victim? Three times.

Who knows?

 

What I do know is that I never had an unrecoverable problem in games without SLIF, but with it, I got boob-size-fighting every time, and it achieved (whether it was my fault, or SLIF's) the exact opposite of its perfectly reasonable intention.

 

It seems many people happily use SLIF, and even understand what they are doing when they pick options in its MCM.

But my requests for any kind of explanation of how to use it correctly with this or that mod typically results in a lot of silence.

 

I've never pressed this, because when something goes wrong, and five or six mods are involved, how do you know what forum to go to? Or is it your fault? You just don't know.

 

There remains, to this date, no user guide on how to properly use SLIF with any mod, let alone on a mod-by-mod basis. You basically have to read the source if you want to know what half the things are supposed to do, or whether a particular mod needs a patch, or a plugin, or just works, or doesn't work at all. For me, for the time being, easier just not to use it. It's a thing that maybe, one day, I'll get around to.

 

 

With SLIF, it's a case where a couple of thousand explanatory words, a table of supported mods, and what patches or FOMOD options are required for them, stands between me and wobbly-bits nirvana I'm afraid.

[Bane Master]

29 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

It would also be neat if Hormones and Parasites communicated to each what inflation levels they were aiming for in StorageUtil items, so they can automatically 'add' their combined inflations in a smart way.

 

e.g.

If you've got boobs of 1.8 from parasites, and boobs of 1.6 from hormones, that's 0.8 + 0.6 delta boob growth, so they could club together and set a boob size of 2.4

...

in the absence of SLIF that is.

 

 

Personally, I don't use SLIF. I set my NiOverride options to "Maximum" for scales and morphs. It's not perfect, but nothing terribly bad happens.

  Reveal hidden contents

But between SLIF and various "SLIF compatible" mods, I've had to abandon several games. I put that in "" quotes, because clearly they weren't as compatible as they were supposed to be. There comes a point where you think, "this is not helping me."

 

Or SLIF went bad. Or stack dumps all around broke something and SLIF was an innocent victim? Three times.

Who knows?

 

What I do know is that I never had an unrecoverable problem in games without SLIF, but with it, I got boob-size-fighting every time, and it achieved (whether it was my fault, or SLIF's) the exact opposite of its perfectly reasonable intention.

 

It seems many people happily use SLIF, and even understand what they are doing when they pick options in its MCM.

But my requests for any kind of explanation of how to use it correctly with this or that mod typically results in a lot of silence.

 

I've never pressed this, because when something goes wrong, and five or six mods are involved, how do you know what forum to go to? Or is it your fault? You just don't know.

 

There remains, to this date, no user guide on how to properly use SLIF with any mod, let alone on a mod-by-mod basis. You basically have to read the source if you want to know what half the things are supposed to do, or whether a particular mod needs a patch, or a plugin, or just works, or doesn't work at all. For me, for the time being, easier just not to use it. It's a thing that maybe, one day, I'll get around to.

 

 

With SLIF, it's a case where a couple of thousand explanatory words, a table of supported mods, and what patches or FOMOD options are required for them, stands between me and wobbly-bits nirvana I'm afraid.

SLIF is simple - particularly with native support mods and I find it means I don't have constant battles between mods over node size

 

The best thing is that f native SLIF support is added, non-SLIF users such as yourself will be completely unaffected

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Bane Master said:

SLIF is simple - particularly with native support mods and I find it means I don't have constant battles between mods over node size

No. No it isn't simple. Why on earth would I need to bring this up if it was, in fact simple?

 

When it doesn't work, and you have no idea what it was supposed to do to start with, and no idea what is properly integrating and what isn't. It's not simple.

Maybe if you get lucky, and it works with the mod you installed the way it's supposed to, experimentation can teach you what to expect, and then you have some chance of dealing with a problem. But if you have zero reference point to work from, it's just a bunch of vaguely named sliders and selects that appear to do nothing, or make your body start to pop from one value to another, which is clearly broken.

 

There is copious documentation... On how to integrate a mod with SLIF.

 

Yet not a word on how to use it, or how to tell whether a mod is integrating properly, or what you should see when mods register properly and how to tell if they haven't.

 

You can reassure yourself that I'm an idiot who simply can't penetrate the user-friendly genius of SLIF, or who simply too dumb to install it properly. Even if that were true, shouldn't there be some kind of help for poor dummies like me?

 

You could fix this with a single page user guide. Instead there are half a dozen links to programmer documentation that the vast majority who download SLIF - end-users - don't need. There are three lines of instructions for users, which tell you to install it, and install the support patches for mods you use. Oddly, I could figure that bit out. It's once it's installed, and I'm in the MCM, and it seems a lot like it's fighting the very same mod it's supposed to be patched for. And then there's native vs non-native support and what it's supposed to look like to the user in the MCM. And the scary messages like "do you want to totally de-register mod XXX from SLIF and <insert threatening consequences here>" and so on.

 

But we've had this conversation before. This is deja vu for me.

[Lupine00]

I completed the rose section.

 

Cave has some collision problems, also a large hole with an invisible wall.

You can get stuck in the pond with the water lillies and have to tcl to escape.

 

There's another spot where there are some visibility issues that make you, or the world disappear.

 

The rose didn't function in an ideal manner. Seems you have to stand by the rose in question (which I am led to believe is random) for quite some time before it triggers.

 

I believe others have had problems activating roses in the past, so perhaps a more straightforward mechanism would be more reliable?

Why even make the rose random? The level would feel more dramatic if it was a strategically placed rose, and the level specifically led to the rose in question. It would simplify support questions too. 

 

I'm not sure if the guardians are supposed to be hostile, but as they would over time turn hostile and attack, I had to kill them all. Fortunately, I had gear so I could do that. It felt a bit arbitrary that they behaved that way, instead of some particular action triggering each one. Again, I feel designed-in pacing, and a climactic confrontation would be better than "sort-of-random". But that could just be me.

 

The copy of me had rendering issues. Her skin would keep turning black. She also had boobs that looked more like the right size, there seems to be something lingering from the bimbo curse messing with mine still.

 

See images below...

Spoiler

I shrank these a lot, but I think you can get the gist of it.

 

Body turns black like this, feed, head and hands do not.

 

Clone has large sized boobs, like PC used to have before bimbo curse made them tiny.

I've reset every visible stat in race menu, but they don't return to their regular size. Possibly, bimbo script that keeps applying makeup and nails (despite being cured) is also resetting boobs.

 

 

I completed the choice part after that. I made a choice, but after that there was nothing more from Sanguine. Is there any quest beyond this point?

[Bane Master]

22 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

No. No it isn't simple. Why on earth would I need to bring this up if it was, in fact simple?

 

When it doesn't work, and you have no idea what it was supposed to do to start with, and no idea what is properly integrating and what isn't. It's not simple.

Maybe if you get lucky, and it works with the mod you installed the way it's supposed to, experimentation can teach you what to expect, and then you have some chance of dealing with a problem. But if you have zero reference point to work from, it's just a bunch of vaguely named sliders and selects that appear to do nothing, or make your body start to pop from one value to another, which is clearly broken.

 

There is copious documentation... On how to integrate a mod with SLIF.

 

Yet not a word on how to use it, or how to tell whether a mod is integrating properly, or what you should see when mods register properly and how to tell if they haven't.

 

You can reassure yourself that I'm an idiot who simply can't penetrate the user-friendly genius of SLIF, or who simply too dumb to install it properly. Even if that were true, shouldn't there be some kind of help for poor dummies like me?

 

You could fix this with a single page user guide. Instead there are half a dozen links to programmer documentation that the vast majority who download SLIF - end-users - don't need.

 

But we've had this conversation before. This is deja vu for me.

As I'm not the author of SLIF I can't comment on documentation or the lack of it.

 

All I can say is it works for me and native support has been added to EC+ and the Beeing Female patch (both of which I am the author of) without any issues arising for those who don't use SLIF. 

 

 

[Fuzzy_Fox]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I completed the rose section.

 

Cave has some collision problems, also a large hole with an invisible wall.

You can get stuck in the pond with the water lillies and have to tcl to escape.

 

There's another spot where there are some visibility issues that make you, or the world disappear.

 

The rose didn't function in an ideal manner. Seems you have to stand by the rose in question (which I am led to believe is random) for quite some time before it triggers.

 

I believe others have had problems activating roses in the past, so perhaps a more straightforward mechanism would be more reliable?

Why even make the rose random? The level would feel more dramatic if it was a strategically placed rose, and the level specifically led to the rose in question. It would simplify support questions too. 

 

I'm not sure if the guardians are supposed to be hostile, but as they would over time turn hostile and attack, I had to kill them all. Fortunately, I had gear so I could do that. It felt a bit arbitrary that they behaved that way, instead of some particular action triggering each one. Again, I feel designed-in pacing, and a climactic confrontation would be better than "sort-of-random". But that could just be me.

 

The copy of me had rendering issues. Her skin would keep turning black. She also had boobs that looked more like the right size, there seems to be something lingering from the bimbo curse messing with mine still.

 

See images below...

  Hide contents

I shrank these a lot, but I think you can get the gist of it.

 

Body turns black like this, feed, head and hands do not.

 

Clone has large sized boobs, like PC used to have before bimbo curse made them tiny.

I've reset every visible stat in race menu, but they don't return to their regular size. Possibly, bimbo script that keeps applying makeup and nails (despite being cured) is also resetting boobs.

 

 

I completed the choice part after that. I made a choice, but after that there was nothing more from Sanguine. Is there any quest beyond this point?

The guardians only agro you if you stand next to the wrong rose they are linked to, this is what I found when I missed all the roses and stood next to them. 

As for anything after the choice. No that is it for now. 

[Lupine00]

I guess I've been through the SD+ beta fairly comprehensively then. I wasn't able to test travelling masters in any meaningful way, due to the combat bug.

Hormones has also had a workout. Parasites, not so much.

 

To recap the major points:

 

• The combat save inflation bug is a serious blocker that walls off a large part of the slavery content.

 

• The sleep bug is also fairly serious, and can easily leave you with no way out of slavery besides the MCM. (If you sleep through a daily rollover, you can never buyout, also displays days wrong that rollover, though corrects when you next see it).

 

• There are some Hormones issues with long term spoiling effects: can't ever get rid of makeup/nails, and breast shrinkage that's hard to compensate for.
• Annoyances, but then hormones is somewhat oriented towards superficial effects, so superficial issues are thus of more consequence.

 

• Bimbo curse cure did not return stats to correct levels on three different attempts. In some cases points were lost, in others, possibly gained.
• Also, the speech perks remained, so you could sell anything to any vendor, including stolen items and DD gear.

Not sure if leaving the perks was by design or not.

 

 

Lesser but still relevant:

• Cages still not working in any useful way.
• Sex animations with followers don't play about half the time.
• Sex animations between followers and creature masters don't play very often at all.
• Sex animations triggers at unexpected times and (probably) lock controls.
• Buyout cash remaining mis-reported (either in daily reports, or in quest journal, not sure which is the source of truth).
• Alicias can enslave you.
• Slave-master creatures, such as trolls, wolves, really shouldn't be friendly with humans, as this leaves no workable way to escape them, and is just plain weird.
• Roses a bit unreliable.
• Duplicate of PC has graphical problems.
• NPCs don't give gold, food or water when you beg.
• Slavery rank keeps increasing even if you aren't enslaved (may require bimbo curse, not sure).
• Automatic equip of unwanted items constantly occurring when enslaved after hands bound (even if unbound) in some (frequent) cases.

 

Really minor:

• Characters saying things that seem silly. Crassius says he can't touch anybody, then has sex with you, Sanguine refuses to have sex with you in case he catches a disease.
• Hormones front-page / forum documentation on weight changes doesn't match actual configuration or the wiki/git page.
• Your follower shows up in Sanguine's secret room in the dream world.
• Bandit masters can often act like abstinent monks.
• All masters produce bogus messages on enslavement about being too far away to recollar you.
• Numerous other scrolling messages like the empty failed task messages, weapon unequipped messages, etc.
• Bimbo skill loss happens all at once, up front, not when you get message boxes about fading skills.
• You need to "see into the future" to know how to investigate Honningbrew Meadery.
• Wild edits in ESP, also conflicting edits with Immersive NPCs - AI Overhaul that are likely avoidable.

• When I was forced to kill the Alicia that enslaved me, I got 1000 bounty ... in Whiterun!? That was ... unexpected.
• Changing zone when master sleeping not considered an escape attempt.

[Lupine00]

On the main quest...

 

There is one thing that puzzled me, and seemed like an opportunity was missed...

 

1)  SD+ has some fairly important faction mechanics, essential to enslavement. But you get to keep factions when you buyout of slavery, if you choose to.

This seems to serve no obvious purpose, and can even cause problems in your game.

 

2)  When you leave the dreamworld you are ported to "random" places that are mostly just places you might come across a Sexlab Story scenario.

I kept thinking it would make sense if these locations were somehow vital to progressing the main quest, but apart from the bunkhouse, they aren't.

 

 

Why not combine these two things, and have Sanguine set tasks for you as part of the main quest? Maybe two or three times, you are ported to a spot where you have to surrender into slavery and buy your way out to earn the faction, because it is the only way to obtain some maguffin item.

 

This would significantly extend the main quest without requiring much work, and make the faction mechanics totally integral and useful to the quest.

 

 

Also, to tide us over, and bridge the gap between making the choice and the ultimate completion of quest development, how about two simple repeatable quests? One for each alternative.

 

This could be as simple as you need to earn five levels, or amass 20,000 gold. At least the latter would be a nice cash sink. Those are just throwaway examples, could be multi-step, or multi-objective, or require being enslaved, or anything really, as long as it is repeatable and fits the general character of the choice the player made.

 

 

It's a bit of a tired refrain, but the basic enslavement tasks are a weak spot. Success is often beyond player control. If there's no food you can't bring it, no ingredients, nothing you can do will make them appear, and so on. This is one area where DF scores highly: it ensures you're in a place that makes some kind of sense for a task, and all the tasks are based around sex, with money as a constant undercurrent - but you can get money.

 

That said, the looting in SD+ can be awesome ... when you have a master who can fight (alas the save bug prevents this right now). Get a strong master into a dungeon, and you're reduced to a loot lackey, fetching him his treasure. But you need a mobile master who can fight and who will do the dungeon (it's not easy). If they just die ... well that's an over-easy escape. DF solved that with immortality for followers, but it's a blunt instrument.

 

 

Adding more sex tasks, and setting them if the player fails fetch tasks could improve things substantially. There are already some sex tasks, but often you never see them. Maybe just steal the customer mechanics from Red Wave, and have people show up to use you for sex, no matter where you are? Probably not possible as RW is a location with markers and such, but still theoretically possible to make generic bandit, tavern, or miner customers just appear.

 

Adding more DD training items ... perhaps with long term effects ... would also be another way to get away from the constant demand for gold. I've had bandit masters who demand almost nothing else, and if it wasn't gold, it was food.

 

For example, (and this is just a throwaway example, don't read too much into it) after wearing the training boots for a few days, your master removes them and you find you can't stand without them. You have to beg for the boots back. Master takes boots away to punish you if you're bad! Boot dependence could then be cured by Sanguine, if he feels like it, or an alchemist, for a high price, or perhaps some parasite infections could mysteriously cure it? (Or consuming about 20 chaurus eggs, which you'd have to harvest somehow, haha).

 

 

An anecdote of no great import:

Spoiler

At one point, I got into a really difficult situation in the testing playthrough at one point. I was using Barefoot Realism, and you can't just walk between cities in bare feet with it. You end up with bleeding feet and can hardly move. It takes a long time to toughen your feet up. Poor PC ended up in the middle of nowhere, naked, in some bondage items, including a tentacle harness that cripples speech and makes you very, very horny, fast. And I had beg for sex enabled.

 

When the PC arrived in Windhelm, feet bleeding, she tried to use solicitation to raise money for boots, and to pay the 1000 bounty from killing the Alicia. It took forever, as she would more often give sex for free than make them pay for it. Then, a generous customer left her in an armbinder that she couldn't remove at all despite having the right key (couldn't reach locks, realistic for once). Then PoP bounty hunters showed up. She was able to pay them off, but had no way at all to escape the binder, no way to buy boots (as nobody would sell to her), and no way to walk anywhere else. She couldn't even crawl, or take a carriage in the armbinder.  Solicitation was producing money very, very slowly, and it wasn't clear what use it was even if she had it. If she'd been able to travel, Sanguine's Shrine was the only logical destination.

Notably, the binder couldn't be unlocked. I tried about 20 times. Couldn't be struggled out of. Was basically inescapable without a Devious Helper, which I didn't have installed anyway.

 

Eventually, she got slept enough times to get taken to Sanguine, and he removed it.

 

What does this teach us? Nothing really. Or maybe, Barefoot Realism is a hardcore mod combined with SD+. It also locks the player object far too much, so I don't advise using it, unless you like sluggish script responses. However, there was a point where I wondered if it would ever be possible to escape the armbinder before the situation got even worse. Such situations are the best and the worst. I knew if I tried to walk to the shrine, it would take many real hours, and I'd probably die, even with a follower.

 

 

That's me done. I'll sort out that tentacle monster asset and then onto something else, until there are some new changes to try.

[Fuzzy_Fox]

Spoiler

 

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

On the main quest...

 

There is one thing that puzzled me, and seemed like an opportunity was missed...

 

1)  SD+ has some fairly important faction mechanics, essential to enslavement. But you get to keep factions when you buyout of slavery, if you choose to.

This seems to serve no obvious purpose, and can even cause problems in your game.

 

2)  When you leave the dreamworld you are ported to "random" places that are mostly just places you might come across a Sexlab Story scenario.

I kept thinking it would make sense if these locations were somehow vital to progressing the main quest, but apart from the bunkhouse, they aren't.

 

 

Why not combine these two things, and have Sanguine set tasks for you as part of the main quest? Maybe two or three times, you are ported to a spot where you have to surrender into slavery and buy your way out to earn the faction, because it is the only way to obtain some maguffin item.

 

This would significantly extend the main quest without requiring much work, and make the faction mechanics totally integral and useful to the quest.

 

 

Also, to tide us over, and bridge the gap between making the choice and the ultimate completion of quest development, how about two simple repeatable quests? One for each alternative.

 

This could be as simple as you need to earn five levels, or amass 20,000 gold. At least the latter would be a nice cash sink. Those are just throwaway examples, could be multi-step, or multi-objective, or require being enslaved, or anything really, as long as it is repeatable and fits the general character of the choice the player made.

 

 

It's a bit of a tired refrain, but the basic enslavement tasks are a weak spot. Success is often beyond player control. If there's no food you can't bring it, no ingredients, nothing you can do will make them appear, and so on. This is one area where DF scores highly: it ensures you're in a place that makes some kind of sense for a task, and all the tasks are based around sex, with money as a constant undercurrent - but you can get money.

 

That said, the looting in SD+ can be awesome ... when you have a master who can fight (alas the save bug prevents this right now). Get a strong master into a dungeon, and you're reduced to a loot lackey, fetching him his treasure. But you need a mobile master who can fight and who will do the dungeon (it's not easy). If they just die ... well that's an over-easy escape. DF solved that with immortality for followers, but it's a blunt instrument.

 

 

Adding more sex tasks, and setting them if the player fails fetch tasks could improve things substantially. There are already some sex tasks, but often you never see them. Maybe just steal the customer mechanics from Red Wave, and have people show up to use you for sex, no matter where you are? Probably not possible as RW is a location with markers and such, but still theoretically possible to make generic bandit, tavern, or miner customers just appear.

 

Adding more DD training items ... perhaps with long term effects ... would also be another way to get away from the constant demand for gold. I've had bandit masters who demand almost nothing else, and if it wasn't gold, it was food.

 

For example, (and this is just a throwaway example, don't read too much into it) after wearing the training boots for a few days, your master removes them and you find you can't stand without them. You have to beg for the boots back. Master takes boots away to punish you if you're bad! Boot dependence could then be cured by Sanguine, if he feels like it, or an alchemist, for a high price, or perhaps some parasite infections could mysteriously cure it? (Or consuming about 20 chaurus eggs, which you'd have to harvest somehow, haha).

 

 

An anecdote of no great import:

  Hide contents

At one point, I got into a really difficult situation in the testing playthrough at one point. I was using Barefoot Realism, and you can't just walk between cities in bare feet with it. You end up with bleeding feet and can hardly move. It takes a long time to toughen your feet up. Poor PC ended up in the middle of nowhere, naked, in some bondage items, including a tentacle harness that cripples speech and makes you very, very horny, fast. And I had beg for sex enabled.

 

When the PC arrived in Windhelm, feet bleeding, she tried to use solicitation to raise money for boots, and to pay the 1000 bounty from killing the Alicia. It took forever, as she would more often give sex for free than make them pay for it. Then, a generous customer left her in an armbinder that she couldn't remove at all despite having the right key (couldn't reach locks, realistic for once). Then PoP bounty hunters showed up. She was able to pay them off, but had no way at all to escape the binder, no way to buy boots (as nobody would sell to her), and no way to walk anywhere else. She couldn't even crawl, or take a carriage in the armbinder.  Solicitation was producing money very, very slowly, and it wasn't clear what use it was even if she had it. If she'd been able to travel, Sanguine's Shrine was the only logical destination.

Notably, the binder couldn't be unlocked. I tried about 20 times. Couldn't be struggled out of. Was basically inescapable without a Devious Helper, which I didn't have installed anyway.

 

Eventually, she got slept enough times to get taken to Sanguine, and he removed it.

 

What does this teach us? Nothing really. Or maybe, Barefoot Realism is a hardcore mod combined with SD+. It also locks the player object far too much, so I don't advise using it, unless you like sluggish script responses. However, there was a point where I wondered if it would ever be possible to escape the armbinder before the situation got even worse. Such situations are the best and the worst. I knew if I tried to walk to the shrine, it would take many real hours, and I'd probably die, even with a follower.

 

 

That's me done. I'll sort out that tentacle monster asset and then onto something else, until there are some new changes to try.

 

 

 

There is already a mod that will make your feet train into bondage boots. You will stumble and fall down till they are trained, then you can run and walk normally, problem is if you remove them you will have to train your feet back to being normal. The mod can be found here 

I seem to think that DeepBlueFrog also mentioned this mod as being an optional immersion mod. 

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, Fuzzy_Fox said:

There is already a mod that will make your feet train into bondage boots. You will stumble and fall down till they are trained, then you can run and walk normally, problem is if you remove them you will have to train your feet back to being normal. The mod can be found here 

I know.

 

In fact, IIRC, we had some interactions on the Devious Training forum, and you posted the dev beta for me?

 

But it isn't what I described, though it is superficially similar:

• There are no cures for deviously trained feet. It can wear off, but only if you enable that.
• You can't beg an SD+ master to wear boots, even if you have DTII installed.
• SD+ master doesn't take boots away if you're trained and need to be punished, he always sees boots as punishment. DTII changes nothing about that.
• DTII's training implementation (even in the dev-beta), like Barefoot Realism, locks the player object far, far, far, too much, with stack-dumpy consequences.
• DTII requires you to walk in the boots to be trained; and in SD+ you spend your time on your back, not walking  
• DTII adds all that falling over and stumbling stuff, but I wasn't suggesting that. I was suggesting a very simple "cannot walk without boots if trained, must SD+ crawl." (You can be forced to crawl anyway, so it's not harsh at all).
• DTII is designed around simulationist thinking, not a design for fun gameplay.
• DTII is much more about "invisible" stat modifiers than it is about things you can immediately see and experience.
• DTII does a whole load of other things, devious training in general, but none of it is SD+ tasks, and that was what I was talking about.
• What I suggested was actually not about boots at all, it was an example template for implementing device training as tasks in SD+ in a super-lightweight and simplistic way, in the context of SD+ ... only.

 

If there was any meaningful way to use DTII as a substitute for SD+ tasks, I'd be very keen to use it. As it is, I've used it a few times, and found it, ultimately, to be a flawed gameplay design; unless you consider it as merely providing rationale to wear nothing but DCL DAMN box armors. Fun a couple of playthroughs, but then you tire of it.

 

And...

I'm certainly not recommending Barefoot Realism to anyone. Its script impact alone it intolerable; the stumbles are implemented in a way that breaks many DD animations, and the push-back stumbles make progress so difficult that it's beyond realistic penalty and into brutal. It is interesting not being able to walk places, but also highly problematic in Skyrim. I'm kind of a fan of brutally hard stuff, and it is, but it's also over complicated and implemented in a costly way. The problem is that it was written, then abandoned. It needed iterative improvement to refine it into the great mod it could potentially be.

 

Devious Training II is a more complex topic, but I think I said enough about that on the DTII forum already, but as is, the heavy script load is not proportionate to the difference it makes to your game. I keep hoping that balance will change, but as yet, no new release.

 

As for falling over. The rage I encountered on the DD dev forum for suggesting it was a better mechanic than being slowed to a shuffle was quite considerable. I think some people are somewhat invested in that slow down, and consider it the best thing in the best of all possible worlds. I'm not convinced, but there certainly are mods that will make you fall over, and they serve as a pretty good proof of concept for falling vs slowdown TBH. It is a matter of taste, I think.

 

 

In contrast to DTII, a mod like SD+ does some major things to your game. For that, a high price is acceptable. But actually, it doesn't levy such a high price. Except the current combat bug 

[Lupine00]

Tried the large cages last night.

 

Master works as you would hope, and announces you will be "put away" for the night.

 

The master paths to the cage, which has an open door.

 

Then you get a popup telling you to enter the cage.

 

As soon as you clear the popup, the cage door slams shut. Instantly.

 

However, the door wasn't locked, so I opened it and walked in. It slammed shut again, this time locked.

 

Then I was punished for not going into the cage, but it soon stopped.

 

Almost working!

 

 

Is the trigger box that detects cage entry too big, so it fires even when you're outside?

Does it fire due to actors other than the player causing confusion?

 

People mention an "alias bug", what was that all about?

[Lupine00]

I hand-merged SL Stories last night before trying the cages.

 

The amount of USLEEP stuff that gets overwritten is non-trivial. It probably took two hours to merge! A job like that is error prone.

I'm pretty sure that the USLEEP changes could be merged into Stories to bring it up-to-date; it wouldn't create a USLEEP dependency.

 

The amount of conflict with Immersive NPCs - AI Overhaul is considerable. If you don't hand merge a lot of records, you are going to have a seriously broken AI Overhaul.

 

Is it listed as an incompatible mod?

 

It probably should be, unless changes are made. There is currently no ordering you can pick that won't shaft either SL Stories or IN-AIO unless you hand merge - and that's hardly a foolproof solution - I doubt I got it perfect.

 

There's one spot where SL Stories deletes an entire house interior that is heavily modified by IN-AIO, another couple of spots where both have replaced the nav-mesh. I don't remember anything about that house in DragonBridge from playing stories, so I just had to assume Stories knew what it was doing and accepted the deletion.

 

SL Stories carries a lot of lighting changes (it probably doesn't need) and they conflict with just about every lighting overhaul you can think of. Normally those lighting mods are going to be near the tail-end of your LO, and it doesn't matter, but for anyone sticking SL Stories near the end of their LO, it would be an issue, and it made me wonder whether anything in Stories could possibly get broken by a lighting mod overwrite. I had to be careful preserving Red Wave stuff, and in that case everything was different from USLEEP, to Stories, to INAIO, to the lighting mods.

 

 

Most peculiar of all, adding SL Stories fixed the odd behaviour of the PC's breast nodes, that had been busted since the (disabled) Bimbo body swap event.

 

I didn't realise that Hormones requires Stories, but it seems it ... sort of ... does.

[PubliusNV]

Oh, that's very interesting.  I have Stories below my lighting overhaul and I've been seeing strange lighting problems.  I wonder if that's the reason.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, PubliusNV said:

Oh, that's very interesting.  I have Stories below my lighting overhaul and I've been seeing strange lighting problems.  I wonder if that's the reason.

If it's a cell that Stories touches, definitely yes.

 

But if you don't have your lighting mods near to last, almost anything that changes a cell could overwrite them, and lots of mods change cells.

IN-AIO for example, also touches a lot of cells and modifies lighting, its own way.

 

I'm guessing this is basically a consequence of how the CK works, and it can only be fixed in TES5Edit?

 

LOOT does not sort lighting mods near the bottom, instead puts them early, so chances of broken lighting from a LOOT sort are high.

I'm starting to get the impression that LOOT is by no means good at sorting. Never mind its issues with LL mods, it just gets all kinds of stuff wrong.

 

Seems like LOOT thinking is that lighting mods are low priority, so just sort them early "to be safe".

 

I'd say it's trying to minimise the risk of serious breakage rather than trying to get stuff "right", and prefers a less hazardous wrong overwrite to a correct, potentially quest breaking one (because it can't tell when overwrites are wanted, or not wanted).

 

I suspect it's mostly useful when you want to know where to put really popular mods like IN-AIO vs 3DNPC vs Bijin Wives or something.

 

I also noticed that most ENB guides say you should install Darker Dungeons to patch dungeons that have wrong fog etc.

However, it seems to be that that Enhanced Lights and FX and ELE Lite both fix this (now?) anyway. It's basically an ESP you can live without.

(Please let me know if I'm wrong about that, but in every case I saw data from Darker Dungeons, another lighting mod addressed the same issue).

 

If you make a Smashed Patch, Mator Smash will pick what lighting information to use according to some magic rules of its own, and your sort is meaningless.

It mostly picks sensible choices, so it's not all bad, but if lighting matters, probably best to leave lighting mods out of the patch, and load them after it.

 

I never saw a case where a lighting mod ruined something important, like a navmesh, a faction, a package, or a VMAD.

[TheLoverLabCriminal]

i have a bug to report i deactivate skin change and hair but idk why my body become brow and me head have same color when i choose in racemenu. i thionk you should fix the skin change or make on other mods like (addons)

[asdasd123123]

On 10/13/2018 at 2:37 PM, DeepBlueFrog said:

Depends on the Alicia. If it is the one to the side by the river, you can probably ignore her.

 

The most important ones are the one next to the landing site and the redguard one next to the bridge.

Could you release the SD+ patch that contains the bloat fix so we can test it? 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, asdasd123123 said:

Could you release the SD+ patch that contains the bloat fix so we can test it? 

There's nothing in git. Is there even a fix for this yet? Did I miss some chat on the main forum?

 

I was going to look at what was changed in new version compared to the old, where the package evals were removed to work around this issue (or something) there's a comment to that effect in the latest source.

 

I thought maybe if I could see what was changed I could at least hack my existing script (no property changes) so I could keep using my test save and have an SD+ master who doesn't have to be kept safe in a cave so they don't get in a fight.

 

That wouldn't be a proper fix though.

 

 

 

A combination of OnHit (which can occur very fast/repeatedly in some cases) and doing just about anything in the OnHit, is a recipe for suspended stacks.

 

I guess the goal of this code was to get an EVP when the combat state ends, so the master can get back to whipping you promptly without a few seconds of delay before the regular scheduled AI EVP occurs anyway.

 

So, the fix would involve setting a flag "EVP required" in OnHit, which is a cheap, fast operation, and if the flag wasn't previously set, doing something like register for single update, in about three seconds. Then after the three seconds, the update occurs, and it calls the EVP, and clears the flag.

 

Thus, if you get a bazillion OnHit ... you get one flag set, one call to register, and a bazillion read accesses and comparisons, which are cheap and hopefully don't get you suspended.

 

 

But, I guess DBF knew this when he hastily commented out the code for the previous release, and just didn't have time to mess about with it.

OR ... more importantly ... he knew something else, because he knows about more than that single source file, and was trying to get something more complicated done.

 

 

With storage util, I imagine I could hack this behaviour into the script without a single property or ESP change, so it would work for a running game and still be a solid solution.

Of course ... Skyrim ... so that's probably optimistic.

 

 

Anyway, I thought AI characters would stand around very briefly after combat, then re-evaluate packages anyway, because it's likely, even in vanilla that package conditions have changed, and combat pretty much always runs an override package. Maybe the EVP isn't needed at all, as there's no point trying to rush the AI system. I'm not really clear on what the EVP is trying to fix. If it was a situation where actor never evals, and just stands around, I think that would more likely be a condition bug anyway?

[DeepBlueFrog]

I am testing a fix right now and will post it later today if it looks like it is working.

[Lupine00]

Just had a quick run through Flowering Spriggan. I've played this several times before, and it's never worked quite right.

 

This time...

 

On quest start, when roots were applied:

• PC was shaved bald for some random reason. (SD Dialogs slave bald hair). Is this by design?
• PC weight was change from 93% down to 37% for no obvious reason, resulting in some extreme body shrinkage.

 

The husk spawned perfectly, quest completed nicely. Green stuff vanished ... after a couple of days.

 

Alas, roots did not vanish.

 

I went to Temple of Kynareth.

 

Tried shrine of "Remove unwanted visual effects."

No result from that - presumably just removes green splatters? But I didn't have them.

 

Asked the acolyte about the root problem. 

"Can you help me get out of these things?"

"Can you help me with these roots?"

He says yes, "I have an ointment for this."

 

Then a message says the ointment removes the roots.

 

But it doesn't. I'm still locked in the roots.

 

I use the DD remove quest items panic button.

This removes the roots!

Still bald, still weight 0.37

 

 

The "guardians" that show up are ... a bit confusing.

They inevitably show up while you are stuck in a masturbation scene and then attack you when the scene ends.

Are they supposed to attack? Why? Nobody ever explains why they appear, or why they attack.

 

Not sure yet if I have the lingering "People who got the green goo start showing up when you sleep or fast travel, then raping you."

 

 

Log has a clue to the device removal problem:

Roots definitely present, showing in inventory and on character (and locked on) when this ran.

[10/29/2018 - 12:55:50AM] Info: *Achievement 28 awarded - a winnar is you!*
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?

[foreveraloneguy]

Using SDPlus 3.6.2 beta 5, I get sent to dream world and speak with sanguine and all the usual dialog happens, but the enslavement sequence never fires. I've tried three times and it's the same each time. I'm also a bimbo and a succubus, but that's never mattered before that I can recall.

[DeepBlueFrog]

23 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Just had a quick run through Flowering Spriggan. I've played this several times before, and it's never worked quite right.

 

This time...

 

On quest start, when roots were applied:

• PC was shaved bald for some random reason. (SD Dialogs slave bald hair). Is this by design?
• PC weight was change from 93% down to 37% for no obvious reason, resulting in some extreme body shrinkage.

 

The husk spawned perfectly, quest completed nicely. Green stuff vanished ... after a couple of days.

 

Alas, roots did not vanish.

 

I went to Temple of Kynareth.

 

Tried shrine of "Remove unwanted visual effects."

No result from that - presumably just removes green splatters? But I didn't have them.

 

Asked the acolyte about the root problem. 

"Can you help me get out of these things?"

"Can you help me with these roots?"

He says yes, "I have an ointment for this."

 

Then a message says the ointment removes the roots.

 

But it doesn't. I'm still locked in the roots.

 

I use the DD remove quest items panic button.

This removes the roots!

Still bald, still weight 0.37

 

 

The "guardians" that show up are ... a bit confusing.

They inevitably show up while you are stuck in a masturbation scene and then attack you when the scene ends.

Are they supposed to attack? Why? Nobody ever explains why they appear, or why they attack.

 

Not sure yet if I have the lingering "People who got the green goo start showing up when you sleep or fast travel, then raping you."

 

 

Log has a clue to the device removal problem:

Roots definitely present, showing in inventory and on character (and locked on) when this ran.

[10/29/2018 - 12:55:50AM] Info: *Achievement 28 awarded - a winnar is you!*
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?
[10/29/2018 - 12:55:54AM] ERROR: Method clearDeviceSpriggan not found on _sdqs_fcts_outfit. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
    ._sdtif_release_01roots.Fragment_0() - "_sdtif_release_01roots.psc" Line ?

Thanks for sharing the log file!

 

That clued me to an old bug that I missed a while back. I just fixed it and it will be part of the next update.

 

The shaved head is hairloss due to the effect of the roots on your body.

The weight loss is due to the roots feeding on you.

I added a couple of messages to explain that part better.