SkyrimLL mods open beta thread

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

The two things in quote above should not happen.

 

SD+ does not have control locks anymore. That may be a bug or something from another mod, but it is not deliberate.

 

Dragons are explicitly prohibited from enslavement because they can fly away. Enslavement should not have happened.

Is that a vanilla dragon or a custom race from a mod?

 

Trolls, as most creatures, are dull masters by design. They only care about eating and sex. I don't have any viable idea of things to give them to do.... nothing I can implement in any practical way at least.

 

Oh and the 'taking and giving again and again' is a loophole I am aware of. I reduced by making the master equip or eat things as you give them but it is still something you can abuse if you are bored or want to cheat.

 

I will read the rest later tonight or tomorrow.

I made some minor additions to the previous report post, clarifying that I reloaded at one point, and that the Greybeards caused inappropriate spam (unless that was an apropos feature).

 

It was a completely vanilla dragon.

Trolls do not appear to eat apples or flowers/berries, so you can recycle them a lot. You consume one each time you get them, but the troll never eats any at all. This means that the more you can get together at once, the bigger the exploit. Three or four, it's minor, but if you have 25, you can exploit them into a buyout.

 

If there is a mod in the mix that might be blamed for "totally intrusive control locking" it would be Defeat; as it makes a career of that.

 

But I'm guessing you often test with Sexlab Defeat? So that makes it a puzzle.

I guess the most likely thing is that a sexlab scene was started? But why?

It would make more sense if it only happened after surrender, but it seemed highly correlated with the "collar releases its grip" message box.

 

The game was generally working OK. It was not a stack-dump-fest of failures, and there's nothing in the log for the enslavement period of any note; it's composed entirely of Wet&Cold checking for plugins over and over, redundantly. Now if ever there was a mod that needed a redux...

 

 

 

If I was doing triage on the bugs, I'd put the collar replacement on master-transfer one above everything. That is totally avoidable, easy to test and reproduce, and potentially beyond player control. There isn't even a need to add a new collar, it should be possible to "swap ownership" and leave the same device in place.

 

Yes, the control lock bug was a big deal too... I'd put that second. But I'm willing to bet that it isn't 100% repro, and will be much harder to track down and fix. However, I have saves, so I'm going to see if I can reproduce it.

 

 

 

I went into this eyes wide open. I specifically wanted to see if anything had been done to make this kind of super-dull scenario more interesting, and to what extent the lack of ability to collect anything to give the master would be a problem.

 

That is a recurring issue with SD+, and has been since the early days. Often, you're in a place, and you simply can't get anything to give the master. Even if you're on the road, probably all you can get is flowers, which the average bandit chief probably doesn't care about much. Many times, I've been stuck in the middle of a barren wilderness, without even plants to harvest, and literally zero to do.

 

 

However, some things have changed here (or seem to):

 

In older SD+, I would have watched my allowance just drop and drop and drop, with no ability to do anything about it. In this case, submitting to the troll seemed to please it, and so it wasn't just three days of watching my allowance drop to -114 or something. I don't know when this was changed, I haven't used SD+ for several months ... or whether it's just a creature master thing.

 

In older SD+, I would have lost about 40 allowance when trying to enter High Hrothgar, another 40 trying to leave, as the troll would not have followed, and would have punished. While there are some oddities with this, it works much better than it did. (Oddity, I stood at the door, not going through, and the troll went through, then ported back behind me, repeatedly. It took a while to convince myself it was actually trying to use the door).

 

The end-of-day reports seem even more numerical and opaque for creature than with humans. Maybe this hasn't changed? I can't remember the last time I was enslaved to a creature (it was months ago, wolves, up near Winterhold, again with nothing to harvest or do).

 

 

Normally with humans, you get this confusing (seemingly contradictory) word-salad of "Your master is trusting/angry. He mostly wants sex/beating you/standing around doing nothing. His star sign is Capricorn. He enjoys eating bread and doing rapes."

 

SD+ exposes just a little too much of the mechanics to the player. A lot of the numbers could just as well be hidden in a debug menu. What the player needs/wants to know is simple goals, more like this:

 

"Your master will not let you out of his sight. He thinks you need more training. Stay close or be punished."

 

And then other things could be conveyed with misc dialogue, unless it's something you really need to see and confirm.

 

"Heel bitch! I want you close by."

"Resist me again slut, and I'll whip your hide off!"

"That's a good slave, lie back and take it."

"I like it when you beg for sex, you dirty little slut."

"Go and get me something to eat. The collar will bring you back to me when I want you."

 

Masters did say things a bit like this on occasion previously, but they often seemed random and unconnected to the situation.

I haven't had a human master in this build yet, so waiting to see if any changes there.

 

 

What is the development focus for SD+ ?

Is it bug-fixes and stability? New features? Or improving immersion issues like boring masters, and tasks you can't possibly complete?

 

Some game designy thoughts below:

Spoiler

The allowance mechanic tells you your allowance on every change, so you know how much you have left (when positive), but those constant scrolling numbers are immersion destroying, and its arbitrary function "I trust you for exactly four hours, but no more" is problematic and makes for fragile gameplay. It's too easy to flip from +4 to -1 on the whim of the master, with irritating consequences if you're too far away and thought you had time to get back. The time should always be vague, never given exactly, to keep you guessing, and should "lock in" positive values, and put all penalties into "escrow" until you next get close to the master or the hours tick off naturally - then all your penalty hits you at once and the master can go berserk punishing you for "running off". 

 

DF has shown a bunch of ways to make masters more fun without any particularly sophisticated code. DF is a fraction of the size of SD+, and lacks the faction handling capabilities, but it does a good job of creating an impression of helplessness and being controlled, focusing on the erotic elements, and not feeling too repetitive. Scenes take place in appropriate locations, and when the location isn't appropriate, your first goal is to go to one that is. DF makes the player do all the pathing (which is what I've been saying makes most sense for a long long time) rather than trying to get the NPC to navigate large sections of the world. Every scene has something deliberately unfair about it, and actively pivots on that, using appropriate dialog to highlight it; very different from accidental impossibility.

 

e.g. You can ask people to remove restraints, but you're gagged, so what they do is pretend not to understand your request, rape you, rob you, laugh at you, and even add more restraints. If you ask the master for help, they will make things worse for you. If you resist, they will make things worse. It fits the genre conventions perfectly.

 

In SD+ you're asked to fetch food, where there is no food. It doesn't appear to be a joke, or deliberately designed to make you fail so the master can punish you. Rather, it seems like the mod is oblivious to your surroundings. (Which it largely is, but drawing attention to that doesn't help). When all you see is a stat going down and down that relates to your buyout chance, you think "trying to buyout is pointless, why even care?" It draws attention to a single number, and when the mechanics for that single number are sometimes flawed, that magnifies the annoyance.

 

The basic idea that a slave is supposed to fetch you things makes little sense anyway, especially if you don't want that slave to leave your side because you are afraid it will run off or make mischief. The master should feed the slave, not the other way around. It would make some sense if a travelling master gave you a heavy "pack" to carry - that you couldn't open or look in without picking a lock - that would be gameplay. But expecting you to forage? It's the single worst part of the mod, because so much depends on it (buyout, master approval, task completion) but it's so rarely practically achievable, makes little sense as an immersion booster, and ties into those endless scrolling numbers that erode immersion.

 

Newer tasks, like the leave-me-alone, are much better. But until SD+ bites the bullet and either demands the player "lead" the master to a certain kind of location, or teleports you there with some fade to black and a popup "Your master hoods you and throws you into a cart. You arrive at a new location..." there's little scope to create tasks that make sense.

 

Clearly, viable locations depend on the master. For bandits there are bandit friendly places; most conjurers and necros are considered OK in towns; if you have Dawnguard, even vampires have places they can go. With creatures, there's actually more freedom. It's no problem if SD+ just makes three or four more wolves/bears/trolls show up, right where you are to start with. Let the party games begin!

 

If "scenes" added new escape possibilities, that would really be something.

 

 

Punishment is also inconsequential. Even with apropos, the rapes will be more relevant than any whippings. This bugs me so much that I keep thinking about making a little mod that detects whipping events in a generic way, and adds suitable consequences. Maybe I will do this. It's coming up with the right consequences that is hard. Some serious debuffs would be progress, but still boring. I'd like to make the whipping so bad for the PC that you nearly cry IRL when you get one  

 

With DF, punishment can tie into will and debt, but with SD+ the stats seem less meaningful. Mostly they don't matter because you're screwed anyway.

What does it matter if my allowance is -20 or -90? If I can't raise it, it has no value to me. It's only things you can work for that have value - things you can get through hard work and then lose through mistakes. In SD+, you can't earn things reliably, and you seem to lose them randomly, or more through code quirks than design.

 

 

[Lupine00]

Onto a new topic: Hormones.

 

I'm also testing the parasites and hormones betas in the same setup.

 

 

So far, parasites hasn't fired at all ... which is weird, and I did a lot of sleeping on the ground ... but it could be normal.

 

 

Hormones however has been ticking along nicely. Doing what it says it does without many problems.

 

There is one thing that jumps out though: the initial default setting for weight delta is -1

 

This is the opposite of what is documented on the mod front page, and elsewhere.

With -1 you lose weight for having sex, not gain it.

You get a confusing message. "You have become more voluptuous" ...

 

But you haven't, you're now thin as a stick.

 

I really like the ability to set this to -1, but it shouldn't be the default.

 

 

Hormones sometimes has NiOverride locking conflicts with other mods, resulting in massive stack dumps.

I found that when Fertility Mode was allowed to modify breast size, it could sometimes upset Hormones.

One of the mods seems to be firing constant retries to set the value and couldn't get the lock. (Couldn't tell which one it was).

Also, despite NiOverride set to "largest", it seemed FM was winning a fight with Hormones to not enlarge breasts.

Once I disabled FM's breast modifications, everything went a lot better.

 

 

On the topic of Fertility Mode, Hormones doesn't recognise FM pregnancy. I'm so used to it just working with MME I didn't consider this.

Hormones doesn't support SGO, EF HP or BF either. There is code in MME that can be referenced to see how to do all of these; nothing hard or intrusive.

FP is my pick for pregnancy mods, hits the sweet spot on complexity vs simplicity just right for me, and works very reliably.

 

 

In the MCM, the "Add Ons" page doesn't contain add-ons. Maybe re-title that page to something more inclusive?

 

I noticed in the detailed status information says Succubus Curse 0, Bimbo Curse 0, Daedric 0 ... something like that.

 

What causes these values to raise? What are the circumstances for each one to go up? What is their value range?

 

I know the front-page says you need to do specific things to start the bimbo curse running, but what about Succubus and TG?

 

 

Also, what are the soft-requirements for the succubus stuff? There's information on what's needed for TG in terms of mods.

With Succubus, do you need PSQ and Deadly Drain, or are they handled individually?

How do you advance them?

(I don't have either installed, or the option enabled, I want to understand it first).

[DeepBlueFrog]

I agree on the immersion destroying allowance display - I am showing them because I want to know how the mod behaves right now. Eventually they will be more vague and leave the player to guess more where they stand. 

 

About the roadmap. I am trying to focus first on completing the stories in my mods and second, fixing bugs along the way.

In SD+, that means finishing the main quest with Sanguine and let it reach a conclusion. I have the details on paper. The difficulty is to come up with the right decision tree, quest stages and dialogue topics for the story.

 

For Hormones, FM came out after I developed Hormones and I haven't gone back to adding compatibility, but I may do that later.

Hormones is aware of SGO and BF, but it doesn't do much to improve compatibility yet.

 

For the succubus part, Deadly Drain and PSQ are optional addons to Hormones. They are handled individually.

With both in place, you get a transition to Deadly Drain powers about halfway through the corruption of the player and transformed with PSQ at the end of the corruption sequence.

 

The Succbus 0, etc .. are only values check for the quests. The value is 1 if you check the option in the menu and 0 if you leave it unchecked.

Daedric is a count of how many sex scenes you had with a dremora race character.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

For the succubus part, Deadly Drain and PSQ are optional addons to Hormones. They are handled individually.

With both in place, you get a transition to Deadly Drain powers about halfway through the corruption of the player and transformed with PSQ at the end of the corruption sequence.

Thanks.

 

How do you get corrupted? Sex with dremora + sanguine?

[Lupine00]

I tried to reproduce the dragon issue, but no dragon appeared this time. Instead I got all the way down the steps to Ivarstead.

(Additional note, I surrendered to the dragon directly with SD+ surrender key, not the defeat or DCL key).

 

Once there, I spoke to a farmer who would not help me get away from my owner.

Then I was attacked by Dragonborn cultists.

After they were dealt with by the guards and the troll, there was a period of calm.

 

After a bit, the guards suddenly went aggro on me, then my game CTD.

 

 

From an immersion perspective, if you are enslaved to a non-speaking race, I think any intelligent being should help you with them. Even evil bandits would be afraid of the troll and attack it, then steal you.

 

The idea of an intelligent (speaking race) faction going aggro on a slave seems wrong too. Unless the slave is hitting them.

 

Slaves are valuable assets, not a danger.

You don't attack assets. Especially when they aren't aggressive.

You might take them for yourself, or for the authorities, but why attack a helpless, naked slave?

 

 

If, when I arrived in Ivarstead, the guards had slain the troll, and started a new enslavement on me - or sent me to Simple Slavery - or put me in prison - or simply let me go - I would have been very happy with any of those. Instead, they either attacked me, or simply did nothing. 

 

 

I loaded and tried again. However, the guard attack and CTD was not reproducible.

 

On the following plays, the guards remained stubbornly indifferent to me and the troll.

 

I went into the inn, more indifference to the troll from all patrons.

I asked everyone in the inn to help me. No result. "Not my problem."

Finally the innkeeper agreed to let me go with him using "Can I go with you?"

 

This time the collar behaviour was different. I saw a message "your owner is too far away to recollar you", though he was pretty near, it was still half way across the room. He could have walked over and done it though.

 

Then faction changes kicked in, and the inn went aggro on the troll, or the troll went aggro on the inn - take your pick.

The troll promptly defeated everyone in the inn  creating a rather awkward situation where my new "Owner" was cowering on the floor wailing "We are routed, fall back."

I guess now it is his problem! Ha ha. Suck it up innkeeper.

 

Meanwhile, I was still able to open SD+ dialogues with the troll.

I'm not sure if this is a supported intermediate state, where I have to re-surrender to the troll or something, or just a bug?

 

 

So... loaded and tried again.

 

 

This time, to really mix things up, I gave myself some crime gold.

 

The guard arrests me via PoP. He teleports me to Riften jail. My follower is with me in the jail. The troll is not. Am I free?

 

Jailer complains she can't get my restraints off: "Crap, this one is jammed."

 

Nevertheless, she somehow fits an Inox collar. That's a PoP bug though ... it detected quest restraint and half-replaced it in a totally broken way anyway.

 

Then, countdown for SD+ collar starts ... then ends ... it starts constantly shocking me. I'm like an electric eel, lighting up the prison.

Looks like I'm still enslaved to the troll, and now it's upset at me, and some considerable distance away, I imagine.

I didn't have the patience to see if it would show up in Riften jail, though that would have been fun to watch.

 

 

At that point I quit to write this up.

 

 

I'm fairly sure that in older SD+, maybe a lot older, guards would have killed the troll and totally ignored me. I could then have looted the troll and run off.

I had that occur with bandits on occasion, and I was reasonably happy with that. Bandit masters would also fight animals or undead and die sometimes, giving you a free escape. I don't think that's too easy, because you can't rely on it. I guess bandits would walk into town just too often, so it needed a change. Bandits peacefully walking through town I can accept anyway. It's not like they carry a sign with "I am a bandit" written on it. It's fine. But trolls? Or bears? Not so much.

 

Technically, I guess the master could check the cell type, and if it's town or dwelling/shop/inn/temple, and he's a type that town people don't like, he could knock you out and magically port home or something.

 

 

In yet another attempt, I managed to get troll vs dragon again. This time the troll won, so that wasn't very helpful.

 

 

Another issue with generic spawning masters, which is highly reproducible, is if you take them far away from their spawn, then sleep for 12 hours or so, they are replaced at their spawn point. You can port back there with END, but it's not great. Often, you will spend several hours or real time dragging the reluctant master away from the back-end-of-nowhere so you have a chance at meeting the buyout, only to find you have to start all over again in a somewhat non-immersive way.

 

I'm going to abandon the troll scenario now. I don't think there's much more to learn from it.

[Lupine00]

For amusement, I SD+ surrendered to my follower. This gives you a follower who has some seriously conflicted dialogue. I put it down to too much skooma.

Now, I just need to try SD+ surrendering to a DF follower, that would be ... interesting.

[Lupine00]

An issue that was present with the troll, but not intrusive, shows up in every enslavement I try.

 

Suspended stacks and exploding save file size. Once the save gets over 48MB, it starts to get a bit unloadable.

 

Size accelerates fast once it starts to grow.

With the troll, it didn't start until I dragged it all the way down the mountain, which took a long time (over three days enslavement).

 

It seems likely that it is combat related.

It may be related to the previous combat stack dumps, possibly?

 

This is 100% reproducible for me, and ends up the end of every save long before you can complete a slavery.

 

Are others seeing it?

Or is it somehow caused by an interaction with some other mod I have?

 

I don't get bloating saves until SD+ enslavement begins, and after that, with a roving master, it happens fast.

When the master stays put, eats bread, does beatings and rapes, save doesn't seem to bloat.

 

The suspended stacks are from _sdras_master but I have nothing in my papyrus log about that script at all.

 

I have multiple instances of the active script too, and they suggest OnCombatStateChanged might be the sticking point.

 

As I'm not hitting the master, and most of the script deals with that, you're basically left with:

 

        If ( kMaster.GetCurrentScene() )
            kMaster.GetCurrentScene().Stop()
        EndIf
        kMaster.EvaluatePackage()

 

There probably isn't a current scene, so EvaluatePackage looks connected to the problem, and the stacks bear it out...

 

I'd provide a save file, as the suspended stacks are inspectable, but the saves are ... a bit big.

 

However, I have uploaded the text dump  sdras_master_stack.7z from an active instance, and there are, in this example 164 functions stacked from that script, in that instance alone. It is highly representative of the stacks I could inspect without crashing the tool.

It looks vaguely like EvaluatePackage is being called again and again while EvaluatePackage is still running. This goes on until the script overflows its stack.

 

That there are maybe sixteen instances of the same script running, and another 22 suspended (they have different IDs), seems to magnify the issue. When I try to select some running instances, it crashes my save tool. Not sure why so many instances when there is only one master ref alias?

 

If I compare to a situation where I'm indoors, and not in SD+, I have maybe three active script instances, total, none of them _sdras_master (obviously).

 

 

Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong, but if it is EvaluatePackage, I guess you could set a semaphore when you do it, and not re-enter, and also, just do it only when you know you're forcing a package change? In situations like combat end, the package will re-evaluate by itself anyway ... I think? But it's being called regardless of whether any packages have been added or modified. I don't know why it would hang so long, but I imagine a blocking package is running. You know what packages are in the alias, so I'd guess you're well aware of what any likely causes would be.

 

I've tested a lot more now, and I'm convinced that if you can avoid the master entering combat, no save bloat occurs.

[Warlock3000]

Noticed an issue with SL Dialogues beta.

When begging, NPCs don't give the player any items or gold, even after saying the positive dialogue.

Tested only while not enslaved.

First noticed it on a save that previously had enslavement running and was cleaned with Fallrim Tools (due to the SD+ beta script save bloat bug), then tested it on a clean save, with the same results.

 

Also, vanilla Roughspun Tunic and SD+ Bondage Clothing don't get detected as "poor" clothes for displaying the begging dialogue option. Pretty sure they worked with the stable version of Dialogues... (OK, it seems it's just because they don't have the ClothingPoor keyword...)

Vanilla Ragged Robes or being naked work fine.

 

By the way, do any NPCs help you get rid of a Chastity Belt? Balimund the Riften blacksmith refused, just like everyone else...

 

PS: An amusing thing in SD+:

Master asks to bring him a weapon. You take a weapon, and get a message that you aren't allowed to carry weapons.

Well, at least I gave the weapon to the master quickly before anything happened, so he was both pissed and pleased.

[Lupine00]

I can confirm that I see the same thing with Dialogs not giving anything after a positive response, including the case where the "giver" demands sex as payment.

So, it happens while enslaved too. Definitely and reliably.

 

The weapon issue...

 

There's a fairly intrusive bug where every time you get a weapon in your inventory, you are constantly spammed with messages about how the collar won't let you equip a weapon and it's been unequipped. Even though it's never been equipped.

 

I wondered if this was related to a similar issue with gear: once an enslaved character has had their arms bound, ever after, any wearable item that goes into inventory is automatically equipped. You can unequip, but it just equips again if the slot is empty.

 

This continues, indefinitely, even after the bindings are removed, though it's not intuitive to me why you would ever need/want these items auto-equipped. The simple fix is to give anything you don't want to wear to your master, but it's a bit odd.

 

 

There are a few other, more minor bugs, though some may be symptoms of something more troublesome. Or may, in some cases, be working as intended.

 

• Every time my character gets enslaved, I see a bogus message "Your master is too far away to recollar you."
• Bandits don't seem able to equip a mana-drain collar. PC slave can equip spells and burn master to death. OTOH, trolls, my follower, and draugr do equip mana draining collar.
• There is a disconnect between the amount of gold your quest journal says you need for buyout, and what you see in the daily summary/"Why me" message box. Quest journal will say something like 1750/500 (1250 over), while the message box will say, 347 gold needed. In fact, Why me?/daily report message box amount required (it's quite explicit about this) went up and up and up. However, I still got my freedom after three days.
• The mod will pick MFF sex animations for MMF situations, with rather homo-erotic results. 
• Will play sex animations totally disregarding chastity items, despite DD animation filter enabled.
• Sex with master also uses animations inappropriate for belted PC, yet the master could remove the belt. He doesn't remove the belt for sex, which is odd.
• If your master is asleep, you can leave an interior, and he'll teleport and appear outside with you. The teleport is somewhat immersion breaking, and it's also strange that he doesn't consider the attempt to run off as the escape attempt it most definitely was.
• I was repeatedly caught trying to pickpocket master's faction-buddies. Neither he, nor they, punished me. Only once, I received a single punishment blow. The NPC gave up after hitting me once. All the other times it was simply ignored.
• When checking task results, you often see a message "Failed task: " which I believe means there was no task to fail, and no actual failure. In any case, no punishment I could discern.
• You pass a collect task if you collect anything at all, no matter how low the percentage complete.
• Have yet to have a master answer yes to "Can I entertain you?" or "Can I stand?" Have yet to find an NPC who will answer anything but "Not my problem" to "Can you help me get away from my master?" (Asking this in earshot of master is not punished either).
• Bandits etc will not make sex attacks unless you bother them with conversation, no matter how aroused they are.
• Still hilarious that at the end of most slavery scenarios, you've stripped every single item out of the dungeon/bandit hideout interior, and every single basket, wooden spoon, bucket,  gold coin, and potato has been given to the master. All the other baddies should beat him up for stealing all their stuff.
• Cages are not used.  I've tested extensively in two locations with cages, and they have never been used in several days of slavery. (They are enabled in the MCM).
• Still seeing issues (presumably) with Defeat. In many cases, enslavement (via SD+ surrender key) causes your controls to lock and never unlock. I'm convinced Defeat also caused the dragon issue, but not sure why, as no defeat should have triggered at that point. But, to be fair, Defeat shouldn't be triggering in the manual SD surrender case either. I typically save before enslavement, and then retry the surrender if anything weird happens (like stuck controls).

 

All of these are pretty minor things compared to the save file bloating. If your master gets in even one fight, your save is pretty much wrecked. At three fights, a save takes a minute and the game is unplayable. Master combat AI also seems to become faulty.

 

While the others are avoidable, or simply insignificant, the bloating issue is definitely a blocker and would (most likely) prevent you from completing the SD+ main quest.

 

Nobody else is confirming or denying this bug so far. Would be nice to get more info. I'd like to know If it's specific to my LO, in which case I'll start to track down what mod is incompatible.

[DeepBlueFrog]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I can confirm that I see the same thing with Dialogs not giving anything after a positive response, including the case where the "giver" demands sex as payment.

So, it happens while enslaved too. Definitely and reliably.

 

The weapon issue...

 

There's a fairly intrusive bug where every time you get a weapon in your inventory, you are constantly spammed with messages about how the collar won't let you equip a weapon and it's been unequipped. Even though it's never been equipped.

 

I wondered if this was related to a similar issue with gear: once an enslaved character has had their arms bound, ever after, any wearable item that goes into inventory is automatically equipped. You can unequip, but it just equips again.

 

This continues, indefinitely, even after the bindings are removed, though it's not intuitive to me why you would ever need/want these items auto-equipped. The simple fix is to give anything you don't want to wear to your master, but it's a bit odd.

 

 

There are a few other, more minor bugs, though some may be symptoms of something more troublesome.

 

• Every time my character gets enslaved, I see a bogus message "Your master is too far away to recollar you."
• Bandits don't seem able to equip a mana-drain collar. PC slave can equip spells and burn master to death. OTOH, trolls, my follower, and draugr do equip mana draining collar.
• There is a disconnect between the amount of gold your quest journal says you need for buyout, and what you see in the daily summary/"Why me" message box. Quest journal will say something like 1750/500 (1250 over), while the message box will say, 347 gold needed.
• The mod will pick MFF sex animations for MMF situations, with rather homo-erotic results. 
• Will play sex animations totally disregarding chastity items, despite DD animation filter enabled.
• Sex with master also uses animations inappropriate for belted PC, yet the master could remove the belt. He doesn't remove the belt for sex, which is odd.
• If your master is asleep, you can leave an interior, and he'll teleport and appear outside with you. The teleport is somewhat immersion breaking, and it's also strange that he doesn't consider the attempt to run off as the escape attempt it most definitely was.
• Cages are not used. I've tested extensively in two locations with cages, and they have never been used in several days of slavery. (They are enabled in the MCM).
• Still seeing issues (presumably) with Defeat. In many cases, enslavement (via SD+ surrender key) causes your controls to lock and never unlock. I'm convinced Defeat also caused the dragon issue, but not sure why, as no defeat should have triggered at that point. But, to be fair, Defeat shouldn't be triggering in the manual SD surrender case either.

 

All of these are pretty minor things compared to the save file bloating. If your master gets in even one fight, your save is basically wrecked.

 

While the others are avoidable, or simply insignificant, the bloating issue is definitely a blocker and would (most likely) prevent you from completing the SD+ main quest.

 

Nobody else is confirming or denying this bug so far. Would be nice to get more info. If it's specific to my LO, I'd like to track down what mod is incompatible.

Thanks for all the reports.

 

To be clear, are you using the SD+ beta 5 version?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

 

To be clear, are you using the SD+ beta 5 version?

Yes.

* SDPlus 362 beta 5

+ SD Resources 362 beta 5

+ SL Hormones 209 beta 1

+ Kyne's Blessing 071 beta 1

+ SL Stories Devious 085 beta 1

[Lupine00]

Currently, Dreamworld is not triggering. 

 

Coveted, Lvl 14, enslaved three days and released for good behaviour, visit chance 100%, slept twice, 6 hours each.

Once normally (clothed), once naked (in DD slave collar from Devious Bashnag)

No visit.

 

Am I missing a requirement?

[DeepBlueFrog]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Currently, Dreamworld is not triggering. 

 

Coveted, Lvl 14, enslaved three days and released for good behaviour, visit chance 100%, slept twice, 6 hours each.

Once normally (clothed), once naked (in DD slave collar from Devious Bashnag)

No visit.

 

Am I missing a requirement?

Visits are linked to where you sleep at the beginning - not to how you were enslaved or released.

 

Try sleeping in Haelga ‘s bunkhouse for a good chance to go.

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

Try sleeping in Haelga ‘s bunkhouse for a good chance to go.

Ah. Thanks. After four tries, that worked.

 

I had some idea that it could happen randomly in inns before enslavement, but after an enslavement it was a certainty you'd go on the next sleep.

For whatever reason, that always happened for me.

 

Afterwards got sent to the Sinkhole, never been sent anywhere except an inn before. Interesting. The possibility there are changes I haven't seen make me way more fired up to progress the Sanguine quest.

[Lupine00]

Bimbo curse, using UUNP Special (did not tick Bimbo race), after Honey casts her spell, racemenu comes up, leave racemenu, all well.

I've never done Bimbo Curse before, so it's all new to me.

 

After a while, breasts reset to a modest size, (smaller than the default size for current body weight, which is 100) even though breast node at 3.0 from Hormones effects. Other nodes are not modified, just breasts. I'm seeing messages about a small rush of milk. From Hormones, or could these be from FM? I've always used it with MME in the past, but no MME in this game.

 

In my setup, no other mod apart from Parasites is allowed to change breast size (only other mod I have is Fertility Mode, and its breast sizing is disabled, and this has worked well previously), and there shouldn't be any parasites in play.

 

All numerical values show as before in Hormones. Physics still acts as if the breasts are massive.

 

I tried the apply button from Hormones, but it did nothing.

Breasts remained small, despite node value of 3.0 showing.

 

 

The stat removal mechanic is worrying when you first come across it; seems like a racemenu bug reset your stats. It's only when you get the cure that you are sure it's not a bug.

 

I got the cure, and found stats were restored ... sort of ... health was 156, when it should have been 170, while stamina was also a bit over 20 short, and magica increased from 110 to 147. Is this supposed to happen, or is it supposed to restore what you started with, plus any adjustments you made from levelling during the curse?

 

Skills didn't come back completely either, with some loss of 2H and Heavy Armor, even though I'd increased it during the quest.

 

 

Perhaps a more reliable way to handle these changes is simply to apply modifier effects, in the normal way, which can trivially be cleared, and which can be labelled Bimbo Curse in the magic effects list, and given appropriate descriptions. Probably you had it like that in a first draft version, and the stat removal version is intended to feel more dramatic? (Or to avoid debuff conflicts with other mods?)

 

 

(Breasts did not auto correct after the cure, and remained small).

 

 

Also, would be a plus if you could remove clothes before triggering racemenu. If it triggers while you're in armor with a helmet (for example) you have to retrigger it again manually so you can see your hair etc.

 

 

It would be more progressive if the skill loss were synched up with message boxes telling you how your abilities are slipping away. Would be great to lose them one by one like that, instead of all the skill changes happening at once.

 

 

I would have had a hard time getting the ingredients for the cure had I not just done the Devious Bashnag (variant), which was full of the exact item required.

 

It's such a great idea, I didn't want it to end. I'd certainly love to see it extended with a longer cure quest that is part of Hormones. Getting the ingredients is hard, but also random, unless you happen to be of a level to kill the various dremora that are in vanilla, many of which are blocked behind quests.

 

Makes me think how well Bashnag could fit with BImbo Curse. Outcast tells you that he needs an item Bashnag has, you go to join his coven so you can steal it. But you're a Bimbo, so he ignores everything you say and has sex. Then you talk to the 'traitor' woman, doesn't matter what you say, Bashnag distrusts you and everything goes as it is now, except his chest has the item you need for the Dremora. Then Dremora sends you somewhere like Fort Greenwall, and you have to get an item from the boss chest there too.

 

There's a small quirk, when the 'beg for sex' dialogs are triggering, you will be refused with a line like "And catch some filthy disease? No chance." This is fine if the person refusing is human, less so if they are Sanguine, or a Dremora Outcast, at which point it seems incongruous. There should probably be an entire faction of actors who never say that particular line, which should also include people like Haelga, beggars, alchemists, etc.

 

Slavery Level seems to increase while you are free. I'm not sure if this is related to being a bimbo, but after a few days of bimbo curse, I suddenly gained access to the Please menu. Next time I was enslaved - post bimbo curse - I had Slavery Level 6, but when I was released from my previous enslavement it was only 1. Slavery decay was set to 0.9 in the MCM.

[Jappa123]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:07 AM, Lupine00 said:

I can confirm that I see the same thing with Dialogs not giving anything after a positive response, including the case where the "giver" demands sex as payment.

So, it happens while enslaved too. Definitely and reliably.

 

The weapon issue...

 

There's a fairly intrusive bug where every time you get a weapon in your inventory, you are constantly spammed with messages about how the collar won't let you equip a weapon and it's been unequipped. Even though it's never been equipped.

 

I wondered if this was related to a similar issue with gear: once an enslaved character has had their arms bound, ever after, any wearable item that goes into inventory is automatically equipped. You can unequip, but it just equips again if the slot is empty.

 

This continues, indefinitely, even after the bindings are removed, though it's not intuitive to me why you would ever need/want these items auto-equipped. The simple fix is to give anything you don't want to wear to your master, but it's a bit odd.

 

 

There are a few other, more minor bugs, though some may be symptoms of something more troublesome. Or may, in some cases, be working as intended.

 

• Every time my character gets enslaved, I see a bogus message "Your master is too far away to recollar you."
• Bandits don't seem able to equip a mana-drain collar. PC slave can equip spells and burn master to death. OTOH, trolls, my follower, and draugr do equip mana draining collar.
• There is a disconnect between the amount of gold your quest journal says you need for buyout, and what you see in the daily summary/"Why me" message box. Quest journal will say something like 1750/500 (1250 over), while the message box will say, 347 gold needed. In fact, Why me?/daily report message box amount required (it's quite explicit about this) went up and up and up. However, I still got my freedom after three days.
• The mod will pick MFF sex animations for MMF situations, with rather homo-erotic results. 
• Will play sex animations totally disregarding chastity items, despite DD animation filter enabled.
• Sex with master also uses animations inappropriate for belted PC, yet the master could remove the belt. He doesn't remove the belt for sex, which is odd.
• If your master is asleep, you can leave an interior, and he'll teleport and appear outside with you. The teleport is somewhat immersion breaking, and it's also strange that he doesn't consider the attempt to run off as the escape attempt it most definitely was.
• I was repeatedly caught trying to pickpocket master's faction-buddies. Neither he, nor they, punished me. Only once, I received a single punishment blow. The NPC gave up after hitting me once. All the other times it was simply ignored.
• When checking task results, you often see a message "Failed task: " which I believe means there was no task to fail, and no actual failure. In any case, no punishment I could discern.
• You pass a collect task if you collect anything at all, no matter how low the percentage complete.
• Have yet to have a master answer yes to "Can I entertain you?" or "Can I stand?" Have yet to find an NPC who will answer anything but "Not my problem" to "Can you help me get away from my master?" (Asking this in earshot of master is not punished either).
• Bandits etc will not make sex attacks unless you bother them with conversation, no matter how aroused they are.
• Still hilarious that at the end of most slavery scenarios, you've stripped every single item out of the dungeon/bandit hideout interior, and every single basket, wooden spoon, bucket,  gold coin, and potato has been given to the master. All the other baddies should beat him up for stealing all their stuff.
• Cages are not used.  I've tested extensively in two locations with cages, and they have never been used in several days of slavery. (They are enabled in the MCM).
• Still seeing issues (presumably) with Defeat. In many cases, enslavement (via SD+ surrender key) causes your controls to lock and never unlock. I'm convinced Defeat also caused the dragon issue, but not sure why, as no defeat should have triggered at that point. But, to be fair, Defeat shouldn't be triggering in the manual SD surrender case either. I typically save before enslavement, and then retry the surrender if anything weird happens (like stuck controls).

 

All of these are pretty minor things compared to the save file bloating. If your master gets in even one fight, your save is pretty much wrecked. At three fights, a save takes a minute and the game is unplayable. Master combat AI also seems to become faulty.

 

While the others are avoidable, or simply insignificant, the bloating issue is definitely a blocker and would (most likely) prevent you from completing the SD+ main quest.

 

Nobody else is confirming or denying this bug so far. Would be nice to get more info. I'd like to know If it's specific to my LO, in which case I'll start to track down what mod is incompatible.

Cages are working but only big ones with gate looking doors like ones in Fort Greymoor i mean they are working but because of them there is another bug - days are not updating, there is no notification window about new day after 24h so basically player stuck on first day forever.

 

I also had that save issue after sd enslavment had to disable sd because of that.

[Lupine00]

Is it the case that you have to complete the Thieves Guild line up to the point you are sent to kill rats at Honningbrew to gain access to the shrine?

 

The way the quest is set up, it seems like you should be able to instigate dialog with Sabjorn about the letters, and it seems like that is what you are expected to do.

 

But after getting the new step in the bunkhouse, you go to Whiterun, and go through the entire meadery with a fine-tooth comb, talk to everyone, and find nothing but a locked door you can't go through inside, and a locked door under the bridge outside. Sabjorn has no keys to pick pocket. The "investigation" of the meadery draws a complete blank.

 

You need to use "impossible knowledge of future events" to know that you can make the key to the locked door appear by doing the Thieves Guild quest line. You don't even learn this in an elder scroll

 

While I don't object at all to having to do the Thieves Guild line to progress at this point, the quest text seems to suggest that is not what is required, and there is another path, but I couldn't find any way to the shrine other than the usual way.

 

It feels like there is a missing clue step if you haven't already done the Thieves Guild past Goldenglow, that would include dialog along these lines:

 

PC: Haelga's not a regular Dibella worshipper. I just thought you should know.

Sabjorn: You! What?! What are you talking about? Get out of here!

PC: I know first hand, Sanguine is dangerous. Trust me, you don't want to be part of this.

Sabjorn: Hmmn. You're some Thieves Guild thug aren't you? Well, you can tell Maven Blackbriar I'm not afraid of her, and she's wasting her time threatening Haelga.

PC: No! Sanguine's not what you think...

Sabjorn: I have nothing more to say to you.

(Though, perhaps his much dialog is probably overkill, a single topic and info would suffice).

 

Which would trigger a new quest step with the goal: Join the Thieves Guild in Riften and find out about Maven Blackbriar.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Jappa123 said:

days are not updating, there is no notification window about new day after 24h so basically player stuck on first day forever.

Does that only happen if you have to sleep in the cage?

What does it say if you use "Why me?" to force an update?

[Lupine00]

I'm using SL Defeat without DAYMOYL.

 

Is that basically a mistake on my part?

 

It seems like a few features don't work without DAMOYL, such as return to Dreamworld after death.

 

Might that be related to the control-lock issues I see? Might DAMOYL be preventing them when it's installed?

 

I try to avoid DA, because sometimes it breaks ... badly ... there are just so many weird, unrecoverable things I've seen happen with DA.

 

I currently have DCL that I installed in case I wanted to enable its Combat Defeat - but currently I have the entire mod pretty much disabled - but the combat defeat now supports SD+ to some extent, never locks controls, and very rarely causes an unrecoverable issue.

 

Perhaps I should disable Defeat (for the PC) and use DCL combat defeat?

[Lupine00]

In the dreamworld, on entering, I was immediately enslaved by an Alicia. I allowed it, as I thought it was "plot". Now I'm not so sure.

If I run slavery to an Alicia to its conclusion, will I end up in every faction and have to reset everything?

 

I'm stuck in Dreamworld, having talked to Crassius about scholars, but no dialog from Sanguine to leave. Might be because of the Alicia enslavement?

I confirm that once I killed Alicia (she would not let me buyout after 5 days and 1500+ paid) Sanguine had a dialog to let me leave, and I was offered a choice of destinations. I'm hoping killing an Alicia won't break things later.

 

 

 

In the dreamworld, Hormones "beg for sex" makes sex with Crassius Curio a common occurrence, but his dialog says he's not allowed to touch anyone.

 

I'm reasonably sure now that most, if not all, control freezes come from SL scenes that don't play their animations properly.

 

Whenever I get sex from a "beg for sex" dialog, it's always FF. Absolutely always.

This happens Bimbo, or not Bimbo.

 

Despite being cured of Bimbo Curse, the bimbo eyeshadow, lipstick and nails keep coming back.

I can remove them in race menu, but they return.

 

 

 

Noticed that parasites is using Living Armor and Tentacles with no BodySlide, and apparently no morphs. This results in effects of boob growth being invisible - and probably for many players being in the tentacles causes (apparent) massive boob shrinkage when first trapped, which remains .... until they remove it, and then ... surprise!

 

DCL already has a bodyslide for the tentacle monster. I just copied the outputs from my "bodyslided" DCL versions to match the mesh names you use. 

 

However, if you can't use that for whatever reason, it's probably pretty straightforward to make one, especially if the original base body was something common, like UNP or 7Base, and IIRC it was.

 

I can make brand-new "genuinely not derived from any DCL asset" BodySlides for these if you need them. Let me know.

 

Also, I like the living armor with the jellyfish effect, which has Bodyslide, but the one available on LL is contaminated with old HDT HH. I'm familiar with removing and replacing this with NiOverride. Are you interested in adding the transparent living armor?

 

 

However, I'm fairly sure that something similar did not cause the boob shrinkage after Bimbo Curse conversation with Honey on the island, as in that case no worn items changed. I suspect that what happened is that it reset my body to a state it had saved when I first started the game? It was only after several hours of play, that I noticed I'd loaded one of my old presets with tiny boobs, and fixed it in racemenu. So, when Bimbo Curse ran the body swap code (and didn't swap body because it was disabled) it still did a reset to original sliders?

 

I guess we can say not a bug, but a feature!  It didn't occur to me to set a new "base shape" into Hormones at the time.

 

But... the issue is avoidable, as I wasn't using Bimbo Body, there was no need to reset any of my data anyway. Reset only makes sense if body is swapped.

 

Am I right in thinking that Bimbo Body is intended for players who start male and have no female body or gear set-up?

If you have a fully set-up, everything with bodyslide UUNP female body, splatting over it with a Bimbo body that matches none of your bodyslide doesn't make sense.

 

I'm thinking that even male-first players should probably install a proper female body if they can, as the Bimbo Body is going to be rife with clipping issues - and it's worth mentioning this in the documentation. Unless... Bimbo Curse is changed to keep you naked. It hints that this is your fate, but I kept the curse going for ages, and it didn't progress beyond falling over and dropping everything a lot.

 

Did I not let it run for long enough?

 

...

 

A couple more oddities:

 

While enslaved to an Alicia, Sanguine became available as a follower!

 

Hormones never changes my hair color according to libido, no matter what color its set to in the beginning, how much hue, saturation or brightness, it always stays as I set it. Ah, I see this is working as intended.

 

However, Bimbo Curse does change hair color.

[Jappa123]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Does that only happen if you have to sleep in the cage?

What does it say if you use "Why me?" to force an update?

Same, stuck on the first day.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Jappa123 said:

Same, stuck on the first day.

I see an issue with sleeping. This happens 100% for me, no matter where I sleep, while enslaved, whether the master permits it or not...

 

If the daily rollover occurs while you are asleep, it will not advance the days count.

 

If you later advance the rollover while not sleeping, the day count will be correct, including the missed day.

 

However, once you've done this, slavery NEVER ENDS and you can never buyout. No matter how much money you give, or how much your master likes you.

 

In three out of three test cases, it's my experience that once you've slept in slavery and crossed a day rollover while asleep, you're in for good

Well... You can still kill your master ... as long as it's not a creature ... and you're not locked in a cage while they are sleeping.

[Lupine00]

I realised a couple of days ago that I started this without SL Stories installed, though I have the SL Stories Devious beta, I don't have the basic SL Stories.

So, I was looking to see what problems might arise from installing SL Stories at this point, on the end of the LO.

 

I think there might be one or two wild edits in SL Stories, and some other edits that overwrite USLEEP.

Pretty much all stuff that you could fix in TES5Edit fairly quickly.

Most of the resolutions are obvious, but there are one or two that are less so, and would require some understanding of the intent of the edit before resolving.

 

There are also a few edits that conflict with Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul though they may be harmless if SL Stories follows it in the LO.

 

 

The conclusion is that I think I can get it in pretty safely, but it will need a few edits to do so.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Thanks again for all the reports.

 

Quote

 

I can make brand-new "genuinely not derived from any DCL asset" BodySlides for these if you need them. Let me know.

 

Also, I like the living armor with the jellyfish effect, which has Bodyslide, but the one available on LL is contaminated with old HDT HH. I'm familiar with removing and replacing this with NiOverride. Are you interested in adding the transparent living armor?

 

Yes and Yes please! 

That would be very helpful. CBBE ifirst if you have to choose... but a UNP version wouldn't hurt as well.

 

For the enslavement to Alicia, that wasn't supposed to happen. I will have to make sure they are prevented from enslaving you and made essential.

One of the quest stages in Sanguine's quest requires you to talk to the Alicias. All three of them.

[Lupine00]

I tried to resurrect the Alicia, but she was simply struck down dead again. Explosively. Which was odd. I took it as a sign that her death was expected.

Apparently not.

 

I'm up to talking to Crassius about Sanguine's ... possible objective ... 

 

Will I somehow need to respawn the dead Alicia?

I imagine if they are driven by ref aliases, the only way I can repair her is to write a script to do it?

 

 

As far as enslavement in the dreamworld goes, there aren't really enough loot items to hand over there, especially ingredients.

 

 

With the tentacle monster, I suspect that as it replaces the body, it doesn't matter whether it's CBBE or UUNP, but I think Aradia stuff was all UNP originally.

A body replacer armor like this is usually easy to do; it's tight fitting armors without a body in that I find a PITA, because they'll clip one way when skinny, and another with huge inflated boobs. I'll probably have time to do it next week.