SkyrimLL mods open beta thread

[DeepBlueFrog]

From a recent post I made on Tumblr:

 

Currently working on … SexLab Hormones 3.0.

 

I took a detour from finishing quests and fixing bugs to rewrite Hormones the way it should have been from the start: focused on hormones themselves.

 

The next versions will include:

- A set of hormone levels controlling pigmentation, weight, mood, sex drive and more.

- Modifiers to control the amplitude of the effect of each hormone. These modifiers are initialized based on racial profiles.

- Hormone levels go up or down according to several triggers: sex, physical exercise and later, parasites or triggers in other mods.

- Hormone levels cooldown during sleep and level off toward a stable state, also based on racial profiles. Sleep is necessary to regulate levels away from amplified reactions.

 

It will take a few releases to finish tweaking the new system but the foundations are already working for a few triggers. Some of the main benefits will be to make it easier to set the amount of influence of each hormone (including 0 for no influence at all) as well as a more natural integration with other mods.

 

I am expecting the first release to go out before the end of the year.

 

I am also planning on posting all my unreleased fixes by end of the year as well, so start off the new year on a clean base.

[Malos323]

Nice, so how many releases do you expect it to take for the new systems to be released?

Also how compatible with other Hormones reliant mods do you think the new builds will be?

[DeepBlueFrog]

16 minutes ago, Malos323 said:

Nice, so how many releases do you expect it to take for the new systems to be released?

Also how compatible with other Hormones reliant mods do you think the new builds will be?

That will depend on how fussy the settings are to set up and how much testing I will have to do.

 

About other Hormones reliant mods - do you know of any?

 

The only ones I know of are my own, and I am making sure they are made compatible at the same time.

 

I am not changing much the storageUtil and mod events that are already there, just adding more, so I am not expecting anything significant to break.

[Fuzzy_Fox]

Will the PSQ trigger be in the new hormone mod as well as the sex change curses? 

 

The only other type of mod that I know of may fit with hormones is one that uses pheromones. 

Not used it myself though. 

 

[DeepBlueFrog]

6 hours ago, Fuzzy_Fox said:

Will the PSQ trigger be in the new hormone mod as well as the sex change curses? 

 

The only other type of mod that I know of may fit with hormones is one that uses pheromones. 

Not used it myself though. 

 

The PSQ trigger and sex changes curses are still there but they will trigger a little differently.

 

Instead of a random chance at a curse after sex with dremora, you will get a random change to hormone levels across the board. Sex curses will be triggered based on those levels. For example, if both male and female hormones are high for a few days, the TG curse will trigger. If you are male and the female hormone is high and male hormone is low for a few days, you will get a chance of a sex change curse. That's what I am planning but I haven't worked out the specifics yet.

 

I am aware of the pheromones mod but I have not tried it. From the description, it seems to add pheromones everywhere, which is not really the effect I am going for. 

 

Pheromones in Hormones 3.0 will come from a few specific sources: some potions, sex with creatures and parasites (from SL Parasites).

[Fuzzy_Fox]

4 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

The PSQ trigger and sex changes curses are still there but they will trigger a little differently.

 

Instead of a random chance at a curse after sex with dremora, you will get a random change to hormone levels across the board. Sex curses will be triggered based on those levels. For example, if both male and female hormones are high for a few days, the TG curse will trigger. If you are male and the female hormone is high and male hormone is low for a few days, you will get a chance of a sex change curse. That's what I am planning but I haven't worked out the specifics yet.

 

I am aware of the pheromones mod but I have not tried it. From the description, it seems to add pheromones everywhere, which is not really the effect I am going for. 

 

Pheromones in Hormones 3.0 will come from a few specific sources: some potions, sex with creatures and parasites (from SL Parasites).

Sounds interesting will be waiting with baited breath for the release. 

 

Will there be a wiki or something which explains what will increase male and female hormone levels? 

And will there be options to switch certain gains and losses on or off? 

[DeepBlueFrog]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy_Fox said:

Sounds interesting will be waiting with baited breath for the release. 

 

Will there be a wiki or something which explains what will increase male and female hormone levels? 

And will there be options to switch certain gains and losses on or off? 

The wiki will be another FAQ page on GitHub 

 

Each level comes with a modifier with a value between 0 and 2. Setting it to 0 will disable the effect of the corresponding hormone, so if you don’t want skin color changes you can set the Pigmentation modifier to 0.

[Shadowscale]

1 minute ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

The wiki will be another FAQ page on GitHub 

 

Each level comes with a modifier with a value between 0 and 2. Setting it to 0 will disable the effect of the corresponding hormone, so if you don’t want skin color changes you can set the Pigmentation modifier to 0.

Sounds  interesting. I'll start a new playthrough to test it when it is released for testing. I'm liking this more than the pray I get cursed by Dremora after having sex with them.

[cubucus]

10 hours ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

About other Hormones reliant mods - do you know of any?

MilkModEconomy just screams Hormones for me with the Lactacid and different race milks.

... but that is already present twice (as general compatibility) in the github issues tracker

 

SL Eager NPC's has Aphrodisiac's (potions and ingredients) that increase arousal of nearby NPC's - I bet that can't be good for hormonal balance

[Fuzzy_Fox]

54 minutes ago, cubucus said:

MilkModEconomy just screams Hormones for me with the Lactacid and different race milks.

... but that is already present twice (as general compatibility) in the github issues tracker

 

SL Eager NPC's has Aphrodisiac's (potions and ingredients) that increase arousal of nearby NPC's - I bet that can't be good for hormonal balance

Then there is Soul Gem Oven which also has milk and the ability to birth black soul gems. Along with getting npc women pregnant and making the men wank off for some special alchemical ingredients. It even has a menstruation cycle built in so you have a bigger chance of getting pregnant at certain times. 

[Malos323]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:23 PM, DeepBlueFrog said:

 

About other Hormones reliant mods - do you know of any?

 

YPTG is one I know, Although I don't know if Yp is updating it anymore, and it may not matter much if you add in some ideas from that mod into Sisterhood of Dibella

[DeepBlueFrog]

22 minutes ago, Malos323 said:

YPTG is one I know, Although I don't know if Yp is updating it anymore, and it may not matter much if you add in some ideas from that mod into Sisterhood of Dibella

YPTG?

 

Answering my own question .... I remember now.

 

I just forgot it was using Hormones.

[sapho888]

For years I've used this mod due to its more flexible or universal slavery system.  I liked that it that it didn't make you have to use a specific NPC as a Master.  If you were defeated by a nameless bandit, well he was now your master until you won freedom or he was killed.  But it has felt like the vision for this mod has been steadily moving away from that for years.  Gameplay options while enslaved seem to have regressed and/or been removed pending updates.  

I understand that you probably have competing priorities so I'm just wondering if you have any plans for those parts of this mod in the near-ish future.

[DeepBlueFrog]

17 hours ago, sapho888 said:

For years I've used this mod due to its more flexible or universal slavery system.  I liked that it that it didn't make you have to use a specific NPC as a Master.  If you were defeated by a nameless bandit, well he was now your master until you won freedom or he was killed.  But it has felt like the vision for this mod has been steadily moving away from that for years.  Gameplay options while enslaved seem to have regressed and/or been removed pending updates.  

I understand that you probably have competing priorities so I'm just wondering if you have any plans for those parts of this mod in the near-ish future.

I don't know where you are getting the impression I am moving away from allowing anyone to be used as a master.

Most of my recent work in SD+ has been on implementing more flexible options for Punishment and Tasks, precisely to improve the behavior of 'any NPC as a Master'.

 

The only options I either disabled or I have difficulties with at the moment are:

 

- AI controlled leash: I turned that off indefinitely because Skyrim AI path finding sucks and I didn't want to see more players getting stuck against a rock or at the first step of a flight of stairs. I know other mods have improved on that with automatic teleports but I have not been able to replicate that on my end. Any help there is welcome.

- Cages: I thought I had fixed the cages scene but some issues seem to linger. I am still planning on revisiting that soon.

 

So what else am I missing?

[sapho888]

15 minutes ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

I don't know where you are getting the impression I am moving away from allowing anyone to be used as a master.

Most of my recent work in SD+ has been on implementing more flexible options for Punishment and Tasks, precisely to improve the behavior of 'any NPC as a Master'.

 

The only options I either disabled or I have difficulties with at the moment are:

 

- AI controlled leash: I turned that off indefinitely because Skyrim AI path finding sucks and I didn't want to see more players getting stuck against a rock or at the first step of a flight of stairs. I know other mods have improved on that with automatic teleports but I have not been able to replicate that on my end. Any help there is welcome.

- Cages: I thought I had fixed the cages scene but some issues seem to linger. I am still planning on revisiting that soon.

 

So what else am I missing?

 

I guess I've been getting the impression from the choices in the OP survey and that your recent posts are about your Hormones and other quests mods.  Its great to hear that you are adding more punishments and tasks!  I had definitely been feeling a distinct lack of things to do while enslaved.  Perhaps my post came out too negative and I apologize    

[DeepBlueFrog]

29 minutes ago, sapho888 said:

 

I guess I've been getting the impression from the choices in the OP survey and that your recent posts are about your Hormones and other quests mods.  Its great to hear that you are adding more punishments and tasks!  I had definitely been feeling a distinct lack of things to do while enslaved.  Perhaps my post came out too negative and I apologize    

No problem.

 

Give the latest beta version of SD+ a try if you want the latest improvements. 

 

I am working on final touches for a release and cages are next on my list of things to test actually.

[Teddar]

I don't want to throw a spanner in  the works here but i tested the cage "fix" .esp which is posted in the main SD+ thread and it does nothing for me (yes i have ZaZ 7 not 8 ) but have tried both Zaz versions. Also, not really a subject for this thread but im still having a hell of a time with Vampire masters. I can get enslaved to them via combat but if i make them non-aggro by adding myself to the vampire thrall faction, i can't get "i need a strong hand" to work while wearing a collar. That method works with other factions (bandits for example) I tried using the NPC morality command but still no dice. All i can get is "nah i don't think so".  I guess i'm breaking something my console activities. 

 

Great news to hear that Cages are still on the agenda though. Its always been a big part of the appeal of the mod for me.

[Lupine00]

On the DCL forum, one poster wanted a DCL master (via XDFF Leon/Leah etc) to take control of the player and make them navigate all the quests and content in the game.

 

Quite a request huh?

 

But back in reality land...

 

 

I loaded SD+ up again for a spin tonight and was reminded:

 

1) there's still not much you can do apart from stand around bored. Possibly get raped or whipped sometimes.

 

2) masters still put an armbinder on you as punishment for combat etc, then immediately remove it.

 

3) you can still get that thing where a simple loading door quickly results in a dozen lost hours. Or more. As the master gets mad at you for being in the wrong cell.

 

Of course you are asked to fetch things, but there is nothing left to fetch, so I can't do that.

 

SD+ has long needed a mode more like DF, but not too much.

Taking a hint from the outrageous proposition made on the DCL forum, how about this concrete proposal?
 

Spoiler

 

As a possible "task", the master can decide that you need to "help" them retrieve an item from a dungeon. A generic radiant quest.

While performing the task, you're allowed to fight - in dungeons only.

The master will give you ... something ... to wear when you reach the dungeon, and a weapon ... mana-draining collar will be replaced with one that doesn't.

 

It might be too hard, and the master dies. You can try and run for it if that happens. Good luck. Or it might be possible to succeed.

 

If you get the item, you are set free.

 

As an additional twist, if set free, you may be expected to pay a debt to the master. You then travel with them as a regular follower until the debt is paid, and they can't be got rid of until they die or are paid off. They might get eaten by a sabre-cat or something, so you don't have to pay them, but if that happens, their buddies blame you and come after you (thugs). No DF style game, or bondage or anything, the ex-master just wants his cash the quickest way. That's the SD+ vibe.

 

Doesn't happen with creature masters, obviously?

 

[deadmetal]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Stuff

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As a possible "task", the master can decide that you need to "help" them retrieve an item from a dungeon. A generic radiant quest.

While performing the task, you're allowed to fight - in dungeons only.

The master will give you ... something ... to wear when you reach the dungeon, and a weapon ... mana-draining collar will be replaced with one that doesn't.

 

It might be too hard, and the master dies. You can try and run for it if that happens. Good luck. Or it might be possible to succeed.

 

If you get the item, you are set free.

 

As an additional twist, if set free, you may be expected to pay a debt to the master. You then travel with them as a regular follower until the debt is paid, and they can't be got rid of until they die or are paid off. They might get eaten by a sabre-cat or something, so you don't have to pay them, but if that happens, their buddies blame you and come after you (thugs). No DF style game, or bondage or anything, the ex-master just wants his cash the quickest way. That's the SD+ vibe.

 

Doesn't happen with creature masters, obviously?

 

 

Look to me it sounds you just want a DF without the bondage with objectives which is fine, but that to most of us isn't what SD+ is.

 

How long have you actually put into running SD? cause combine this with some other mods and a bit of understanding the basics of the system you can end up with situations where your toon can end up with scenarios where you get caught by bandits, sold to a orc chieftain and after a bit of mindbreaking being turned into a sex slave.

 

Granted it is a buggy mess most of the time but thats' what skyrimll (BlueFrog) has been working on to fix.

 

im not saying your idea is bad but it probably already exists in some of the mods here on this forum in some shape or form.

 

 

[Teddar]

For me the core thing about SD+ is loss of agency. Its Domination and Submission; mostly the Submission part. Its playing Sims with your hands tied behind your back to see what will they will do when left alone. In the original mod, you got locked away at night and beaten in the morning and there wasn't much you could do about it. Add in the erotic nature of Vampires (everyone thinks they are sexy don't they?) and you've got a pretty good D+S experience. I agree that standing around for hours with nothing to do can get tedious and i think that's what DBF is looking into expanding. But they key thing is to imagine what being dominated feels like for the person on the receiving end of it. Bottle that and you're golden.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I completely agree on all points but the reality is, I don't have much free time to work on mods to begin with and I just spent nearly 2 weeks figuring out why SD+ was creating dumped stacks when the master was in Combat. Before that, it was two weeks testing why certain masters are lethargic during combat. 

 

When you start digging into Skyrim modding, you quickly discover the game engine is full of obscure behaviors that make testing extremely laborious.

 

I am about to test cages scenes again and I am expecting at least 2 or 3 weeks of work unless i get lucky.

 

If anyone wants to tackle some of these issues in parallel and provide me scripts, I will happily integrate them into the mod.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, deadmetal said:

Look to me it sounds you just want a DF without the bondage with objectives which is fine, but that to most of us isn't what SD+ is.

 

How long have you actually put into running SD?

Since before it was taken over and given a plus.

 

I see I'm dealing with a "most of us" spokesman. I'm glad you know how other people feel, that must be very useful for you, but I'm surprised with that kind of psychic talent you couldn't read MY mind and intuit what my post was actually about.

 

 

I already have a modified DF.

I can make DF do any f**king thing I want. So, no I don't need DF without the bondage. I like the bondage in my DF thanks. In fact, I added more.

 

 

I don't actually need SD+ for anything either. I'm suggested a fairly modest piece of technical work that would vastly expand the scope, and broaden the appeal of SD+.

 

But I like SD+, I like its author, and I like the great ideas that he has effectively realised in his mods.

 

 

So I suggested something...

Not because I want it, or need it, but because I hope many people would enjoy a little variety in their SD+ experience, and because I'd like to see a great mod widen its audience, not shrink it.

 

I can't prove it, but I think it's the case that...

Some people try SD+, and they get that first dose of doing nothing for about three hours of real time, and they are bored, and frustrated, and they never bother with the quest parts, or the fun bimbo and succubus integrations from Hormones, and they write stuff like "the bimbo curse just changes your dialogue" (and yes, I really read that, I didn't make it up). So that's not just me asserting what people believe in general, but one guy believes it, for a fact.

 

 

For better or worse, DF has recalibrated what people expect from a slavery mod, and now some people want DCL to be DF, and maybe some people want SD+ to be DF; but what I'm suggesting is for SD+ to accommodate a little of what they want while staying true to itself. What is wrong with taking the best parts from something else, if they fit?

 

5 hours ago, deadmetal said:

Granted it is a buggy mess most of the time but thats' what skyrimll (BlueFrog) has been working on to fix.

For several years now. But if you're paying attention, that's not so much his focus. He is trying to finish the Sanguine Quest. Which is great. I don't really mind in what direction the mod progresses as long as new things are happening. I don't honestly expect him to follow my suggestion, but I do hope he will consider broader possibilities for tasks in SD+. That's all I'm really trying to do: open up a discussion so that people can talk about what THEY want from tasks in SD+.

 

 

I'm not expecting any new tasks. I'm not expecting any of this new behaviour to "just happen". I'm not expecting any new undertakings - but if I heard there was at least a design to fix these issues, I'd feel things had moved forward.  I know how f**cking long it takes to do anything in Skyrim. Really. I do.

 

 

 

I completely agree that deadmetal and I are on utterly different pages with this. I just don't agree with his assertions, at all, in any way.

5 hours ago, deadmetal said:

you can end up with situations where your toon can end up with scenarios where you get caught by bandits, sold to a orc chieftain and after a bit of mindbreaking being turned into a sex slave.

Sure. If "turned into a sex slave" means your entire Skyrim game consists of standing in an almost empty room or a barren field waiting to be raped by a conjurer who simply stands there saying "Do you need something?" "Can I help you?" because he has some inappropriate actor base and his basic short-radius "Hellos" aren't turned off.

 

 

If there were any actual "sexslave gameplay" where you had anything to do that was like playing a game, or heaven forbid, a game a bit like Skyrim, I would accept that you can be "turned into a sex slave" in SD+. As is, you can ramp your submissiveness up to 6, but that means pretty much nothing the moment you are free again, and even while enslaved, its effects are fairly modest ... now. Simply getting raped a lot isn't gameplay, it's at best, a semi-interactive movie. Not even SLSO can make it into a game.

 

As you don't seem to have any resistance dialog in newer SD+ incarnations, even at low slavery levels, the difference between 1 and 6 now seems very minor. If you have Bimbo Curse in play, it totally drowns it out. This may well be a bug though?

 

 

In Slaverun you ARE turned into a sex slave; and you still get to play Skyrim. There are dozens and dozens of quests. There are things to achieve, and some kind of story progression ... and ... you also get endlessly raped.  In SD+ you just get to do nothing and wait for more rapes. Or you can try and rob and kill your master, but the consequences for failure at this are now ... mild ... and to some extent clearly not working as intended.

 

 

But TBH, this has no bearing at all on anything I suggested about improving tasks in SD+.

 

 

There are some great technical achievements in SD+. It does some hard things, and does them well; but doing those things has soaked up so much time and effort that it has had to forsake doing other things. That's a trade off ... a valid trade off perhaps ... though that's entirely subjective.

 

 

There remain issues with the tasks.

 

The "training" tasks are non-interactive, and the player doesn't have to do anything at all to progress them.

The be quiet task basically takes away the only thing you had to do in the first place, which is pester your master for stuff.

You can complete this quest by hitting the wait button.

 

The collection tasks are more often than not appropriate to the surroundings and situation.

 

Basically, 99% of the time, the master is asking you to rob his friends and team-mates so he can consume every last piece of food, and possess every single item that isn't nailed down in the keep/cave/empty wildnerness in which they live. Meanwhile he talks about selling your ass, or your cooking. Two things that never happen. (Though the former used to sort of happen, it doesn't seem to happen any longer).

 

This is not too immersive, and generally doesn't make for much of a game for the player.

 

Now, the other things, being sold, being marched around (at least when the master successfully paths somewhere), punishments, bondage, etc. are all very good; but the tasks that exist in SD+ are flawed. Maybe this is better than no tasks at all. Or maybe it isn't. It's not an easy call, which should trigger an alert right there.

 

And when I saw flawed, I don't mean they are wrong from start to finish. I mean they could be fixed, in numerous ways, without simply abandoning the idea of them.

 

 

In fact, I figured out I could write a mod to fix a few of them that would be very loosely coupled to SD+.

 

I didn't do that. I ended up doing something else, but perhaps I'll come back to it one day. We'll see.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, DeepBlueFrog said:

I completely agree on all points but the reality is, I don't have much free time to work on mods to begin with and I just spent nearly 2 weeks figuring out why SD+ was creating dumped stacks when the master was in Combat. Before that, it was two weeks testing why certain masters are lethargic during combat. 

 

When you start digging into Skyrim modding, you quickly discover the game engine is full of obscure behaviors that make testing extremely laborious.

 

I am about to test cages scenes again and I am expecting at least 2 or 3 weeks of work unless i get lucky.

 

If anyone wants to tackle some of these issues in parallel and provide me scripts, I will happily integrate them into the mod.

It was the urge to fix the lack of buffs/debuffs in Hormones that led to SLD. But now SLD has a massive wish-list of features, so I won't be able to do anything else for ages.

Maybe ... one day ... in the future I can get back to making that little auxiliary mod to make the SD+ tasks more achievable.

 

But in terms of focus...

 

The enslavement process is still fundamentally bugged if it happens through combat or manual surrender. Manual surrender is SERIOUSLY bugged.

 

IMHO, this is 10x more important than cages. It basically stops the mod working unless you use the full DAYMOYL+Defeat combo with it; even then I have my doubts. With Defeat alone, it's broken, just like manual surrender.

 

 

I get a totally different behaviour from masters if I'm sold rather than surrender.

 

Being sold creates a clean enslavement, with a single script instance running - vs manual surrender, which has MULTIPLE script instances running, conflicting with each other, filling Papyrus with spam, and potentially leading to save bloats

 

In the manual surrender case, masters do not punish infractions, and other functionality seems to be broken too. You can attack them and most of the time they will simply let you beat them to death.

 

 

Whereas, after being sold, things work much better, though there is still that issue where they put an armbinder on, then immediately remove it to punish (order needs reversing). I know this is tricky. If you want things to happen in order in Skyrim, you need to do a lot of work to make it happen reliably - especially when it comes to DD - its threading model makes it painful to detect when things are completed.

 

 

Another minor glitch. Master adds blindfold, then forgets it's there. No dialog to beg for its removal. It just stays on until you escape it.

 

 

Are all the angry resistance options supposed to be gone now?

 

Historically, at low slavery levels you could do more than simply hit "resist" on rapes, you could rage at, and insult the master, and perform other acts of petty defiance. Those seem to have been gone for a while now. Is that by design?

[deadmetal]

52 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

*Snide comments*

 

I already have a modified DF.

I can make DF do any f**king thing I want. So, no I don't need DF without the bondage. I like the bondage in my DF thanks. In fact, I added more.

 

 

*Wall of text*

Ok then if you can do that, do the same for SD+ then

 

Now I might have mistook what you meant when you were discussing when you were stating the new task and discussing oppinions on what the mod was..

 

might have had something to do with your line stating :

 

Quote

No DF style game, or bondage or anything, the ex-master just wants his cash the quickest way. That's the SD+ vibe. 

 

Yes the tasks do need some work, but at the moment they are passable and an improvement on doing literally nothing. But as you said yourself there are bigger issues to deal with, HOWEVER...

 

the issue you seem to be having with manual surrender. When you save and load a new save does it fix infractions being noted?

Because if that's the case that issue has been there since as far back as 2014, its a fundamental issue with how skyrim updates its scripts if I recall correctly, if that doesn't fix the issue it might be a problem with your load order.

 

Some of the other issues you have posted are also documented on the GitHub and I have no doubt Skyrimll will get to them when he can

 

Also the Cages are tied into other scripts including daily updates which can really bugger up the mod and considering he's spent the last 2-3 months if not longer trying to fix them seems a bit daft to drop it and work on something else.

 

[Lupine00]

22 minutes ago, deadmetal said:

And cut the snide comments,

I will when you stop making patronising, condescending attacks, and asserting your beliefs as those of the community without evidence.