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Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta


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2 hours ago, Kimy said:

Without using mods that severely slow down healing, inflicting damage on the character outside of combat is super pointless, because they will heal up in mere seconds. You fall, take damage, stand up, continue walking, and chances are almost 100% that you're fully healed before taking the next fall, or getting attacked. Also, that idea is really arbitrary, because that's NOT how these devices behave in real life. People wearing heels don't fall all the time just because they are wearing heels. That happens if you're truly careless, which we already reflected with the little random event that would make you trip over your heels every now and then.

In DD we often "toned down" how devices would behave in real life to accommodate gameplay considerations. Which is why a DD blindfold doesn't make you 100% unable to see, as this device would in real life. It still affects your vision. DD armbinders are less punishing as they'd be in real life too, for they allow you to unlock yourself, which is really impossible to do in real life. What we try to avoid is giving devices really far-fetched effects, though.

I 100% agree that out of combat damage is not the way to go, but I have been wrestling with the idea move speed debuffs and high heel for a while.  To me the interesting parts of skyrim come in the encounters and less so in the walking to places.  Now its fun to watch your character strut in her new heels every once in a while but I mostly just want to get to the next encounter (combat/social/sexual/whatever).  At the same time the bondage-y elements of heels are part of what makes them a fun part of DD.  IRL that comes in the form of slower movement (easy to do in skyrim) and a different stance/walk (harder), so most mods go with move speed debuffs.  It's just that slow movement isn't all that fun sometimes. 

 

My personal ideal would be to maximize the excitement when it matters and minimize it when it only serves to create long stretches of boredom.  I would propose a mechanic that switches on and off (or scales) in and out of combat or in certain areas.  I think it was Wintermyst that has "marathon" items that boost speed out of combat so I know there is at least a lever to pull for that mechanic.  Other potential options would be to enable debuffs in areas where encounters are more likely, like towns and dungeons. 

 

You would have the same amount of encounters with the same struggles on the way back from Iverstead, it just wouldn't take 20 minutes between each one. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Kimy said:

People wearing heels don't fall all the time just because they are wearing heels. That happens if you're truly careless, which we already reflected with the little random event that would make you trip over your heels every now and then.



That is true I also think random bits of damage seem a little pointless,

Like you said heels can be a little tricky IRL but I have never seen anyone in the office fall on their face. But if you have ever seen someone try to wear a pair of jeanes whom normally wear flats you know what I mean when i say 'they take some getting used to'

However, ballet boots are a totally different beast, not matter how much I have tried walking in those is an effort and require almost 100% attention to keep walking. When the heel is super narrow and super high there is almost no good way to get a footing; though I have never just fallen face first into the tiles.

 

If I was under attack I don't think I would last two seconds standing upright, thus I don't think it would be unreasonable to have someone fall face first in combat with those on, reasonably often. If at least to offer some flavor to the items... instead of how they functionally feel at the moment, which is my regular boots with no armor and no muffle. Which, very occasionally, allow my character to play a very cute struggle animation.


Thinking about it now I don't think I could swing a sword, very well whilst in them either. Those sorts of lunging motions really require you to have a lot of balance where you shift your weight from your heel to your toes and then back really quickly... judging from from my 2 minutes of practice just now in my living room with the broom :P

I am not saying that the DD boots do not do anything, far from it, But I think it would be cool if those DD items would make the user very 'aware' of their existence had a larger impact on game-play. I can obviously can only speak for myself, but I would really like to have the situation where if I am stuck in a pair of DD boots, to be motivated to want to get out of the device as soon as possible because of how difficult it  would makes things. That is one of the areas that I really find a lot of excitement in DCL; the constant battle between 'optimal combat character' and 'probably going to die but looking fine as heck'.

 

My skanky little adventurer probably doesn't want to fight dragons in 8 inch heels because they would make death, dismemberment and a very long loading screen all the more likely.

Love the mod regardless ❤️

EDITED FOR READABILITY

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1 hour ago, qawsedrftg765 said:

Thinking about it know I don't think I could swing a sword, very well whilst in them either. Those sorts of lunging motions really require you to have a lot of balance where you shift your weight from your heel to your toes and then back really quickly... judging from from my 2 minutes of practice just now in my living room with the broom :P

I wouldn't recommend it. It's dangerous, at least with something bigger than a dagger.

Even a respectable lady's garment is not the best for sword fighting:

Spoiler

Someone wanted to try it out and see how it would look like:

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, worik said:

I wouldn't recommend it. It's dangerous, at least with something bigger than a dagger.

Even a respectable lady's garment is not the best for sword fighting:

  Hide contents

Someone wanted to try it out and see how it would look like:

 

 

 

It was a lot of fun though. High Heels sword-fighting... now that would draw a crowd!

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17 hours ago, Kimy said:

Without using mods that severely slow down healing, inflicting damage on the character outside of combat is super pointless, because they will heal up in mere seconds.

I'm glad you understood that I was talking primarily about movement in combat.

Falling over all the time when walking from Markarth to Windhelm would be incredibly tedious.

 

The worn-out solution of slowing the player down for everything adds so little, and simply makes the dull parts of the game more dull.

You really only feel the pain when you have to walk miles from one side of the map to another. It's a waste of hours IRL that honestly, I do not have to waste.

Fortunately, DD lets you turn this off, but many other mods seem to add a slow-down on top of a slow-down.

 

 

However, focusing the effects on combat situations, making it so you need to be more strategic in use of speed in combat, actually adds something - and that's what I was mainly interested in.

 

 

But I just put this up to make people think. They way things work now has evolved from one decision and another, and there are other ways things could be done ... many other ways. This is merely one alternative. I'm not asking anyone to implement it. I might try doing it myself, for my own fun. Or I might not. 

 

Rant follows, read at your own risk.

Spoiler

 

Let's talk about how "realistic" any of it is.

 

It's not. Not one tiny part of any of it is realistic. This is a game, and there are two factors at play:

 

1) gameplay, which requires the player to make meaningful decisions, some quick snap decisions, others, larger strategic decisions, for which there are consequences that could at some level be anticipated.

 

2) immersion - the imaginary components that exist only in the player's head, that make them feel they are doing something other than pushing down buttons on a PC keyboard, and nudging a mouse from side to side.

 

Is being made to walk really slowly immersive?

Is being made to walk slowly because you have silly shoes on immersive?

Is being made to walk slowly because you got hurt, or because you have big boobs immersive?

 

Hardly. I see it is possible to walk around quite normally with big boobs. If you can carry 475 pounds of gear, it's totally absurd that 24 lbs of milk makes you slow ... but that's not DD. Just saying.

 

Is falling over more or less immersive than walking slowly?

No. It's not.

 

Because, in reality, you can always try to go faster, no matter how silly your shoes.

 

And if you try to run in them, it absolutely does - in real life - make it more likely you will fall over. I am quite certain that in real life, in perfectly good boots, I can fall over trying to run over difficult terrain. It is a real thing! However, I am aware of no bondage ballet boots that constrain the speed of your leg movement... (Let's not get into hobble skirts, rubber fetters, bondage wrap, etc) Nor would I want to try walking down stairs in a pair, slowly, or otherwise. Heels + stairs are lethal enough without balancing en-pointe, as health and safety statistics are able to demonstrate.

 

But one person's immersion is another person's annoying, or silly. That is unavoidable.

 

We all have our preferences... Personally, I like needs mods, but only when they deliver gameplay. I don't want to manage how many apple pies I have to carry, or whether I'm balancing my protein vs carbs. I don't want to waste my precious play-time doing even more faffing with vendors, or wading through an inventory full of food items just so I can have very occasionally have situations where lack of food, or water, or sleep actually matter.

 

Oddly, most needs mods focus primarily on inventory lint. If you're lucky, you get an auto-eat-drink tick box, which may or may not idiotically refuse to consume perfectly good food and incessantly spam you about lack of drinks. 

 

Now, when DD takes away your ability to carry food or drink items, iNeed goes crazy complaining you have none of the required item type - despite the fact you were carrying 100 lbs of them until somebody stuck a gag on you - and technically you are still carrying them.

 

All of it was annoying.

 

So, I made my own solution. You walk in an inn, you talk to the inn keeper, pay a flat fee for one of three grades/sizes of meal, and your dietary needs are fixed (sleep is another matter), as you don't actually need to sleep using a bed to simply reset the no-sleep-since timer in a quest. Entering a player home just resets everything, no dialog required. No need to lug around a sack of meat pies, no inventory lint, no horker loaf vs mammoth trunk, just simply you get fed well, or you don't. In comparison, mini-needs is a bloated behemoth.

 

The goal is that when you can't get to an inn (or you can't pay), and you can't access a player home, then, and only then, after a time, trouble starts. It's only then that you have to beg for food etc. or suffer penalties ... like slow movement (ha ha, just kidding).

 

Using my own aliases I don't have to endure DD's begging dialog that seems to always fail no matter what. At the weekend, I added follower detection, so your follower can be tagged as a helper, or a master, and behave accordingly.

 

But for some people, all that faff, and camping in tents, and buying sweet-rolls, and who knows what, is important, and immersive. It's what makes the game something more than clicking down keys for them.

 

For me it isn't.

 

Immersion, is subjective, and you can't win a "wrong or right" argument over it.

 

Ever.

 

On the other hand, realism has pretty much no bearing on anything in a game. The amount of silly "simulationist" stuff people add in mods, thinking it will make it more immersive, when it just adds more numbers, is disappointing. You'd think we'd be past that by now.

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14 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

My personal ideal would be to maximize the excitement when it matters and minimize it when it only serves to create long stretches of boredom.  I would propose a mechanic that switches on and off (or scales) in and out of combat or in certain areas.  I think it was Wintermyst that has "marathon" items that boost speed out of combat so I know there is at least a lever to pull for that mechanic.  Other potential options would be to enable debuffs in areas where encounters are more likely, like towns and dungeons. 

That's almost exactly what I described actually, but probably most people skipped the original post and only read the tiny quoted snippet.

 

It seems that the idea of adaptive penalties (whatever they are) that impact you more in hazardous areas, and even more in actual combat, is an idea that has more supporters than I expected. I imagined everyone would just rally around and defend the blanket boring old speed debuff, then remind me it can be turned off - at least in DD - (which of course we all know, and can take for granted).

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17 hours ago, Kimy said:

Without using mods that severely slow down healing, inflicting damage on the character outside of combat is super pointless, because they will heal up in mere seconds.

Oh, actually I do use such mods, but bringing that up is confusing, as I was specifically suggesting adaptive effects that really only pose a danger in combat, by design, and don't require you to be "Exhausted" and suffering from certain unpleasant persistent injuries.

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This ongoing conversation has reminded me about something I've been thinking of for a while.

 

How awesome would it be if a skyrim-like game was made around the concept of devious devices and loverslab mods.

 

Skyrims moddability is much higher than any other game of similar size, but it still feels like mechanical and engine restrictions seem to be getting in the way all the time, even more so now that it's 7 years old in less than 2 months. The next Elder Scrolls game might be half a decade away as well and there's no guarantee it is going to be nearly as well suited for modding.

 

But a fantasy roleplaying game that is built with mods like this in mind, or even integrates bondage fueled adventures and the like into the core mechanics could overcome issues like this by having them interact with the world and each other in believable and immersive fashions.

 

Because right now we have several mods, most of which work independently in a vacuum, with some tagging on each other from time to time coming into constant conflicts with Skyrims base mechanics for exploring dungeons and slaying dragons.

 

Maybe one day.

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1 hour ago, Ursur1major said:

How awesome would it be if a skyrim-like game was made around the concept of devious devices and loverslab mods.

Indeed...

I think the simple reason we haven't seen this, is because kickstarting a porn game sounds a bit ... seedy ... and might be against some terms or rules of the popular kickstart sites. Or maybe they would allow it? I'm not sure. Maybe it's viable. You can say it's not porn, but that doesn't matter, to the tabloid press and shrill angry bloggers, it's just porn.

 

Making the basic "engine" - would take time, the time of people who could (presumably) make the same money working on a "respectable" game, and get industry respect and kudos, rather than stigma, and a lot of dull muttering that you're making them look bad and tainting the game industry. That sort of thing might have a funding route in Japan, but the mainstream US/Euro market, maybe not so much. But sure, it would be possible, with the right champion pushing it, if you could fund from online money.

 

You'd want to put some serious effort into the animation system, and that is not trivial tech. You either have to cough up a lot of cash for (multiple) middlewares and bolt them together, or do a lot of work to get blending + IK + physics all integrating from scratch.

 

Even a fairly well bounded game is going to cost a couple of million dollars unless you have people who can work full time for free.

 

But you could scale back your expectations ... maybe a lot ... use a free renderer ... mash some freeware stuff together, and hope that the lack of good tools doesn't hold you back too much... Accept that you don't have all the facilities you want from the start, and maybe hope to fix things up down the track. You only need a few hundred animations to start (and honestly, that's chickenfeed compared to AAA) ... and you don't need so many environments.

 

 

This is something I gave thought to, some years back, and was sure it could make a fortune. At the time, I was in a situation where a mocap studio, and legal actors who would do that kind of work were easily accessible to me ... but I decided to do other things.

 

It did seem like there were some downsides to getting into that kind of business.

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The core gameplay of Skyrim is killing things to please townsfolk. That's basically what the game is made of. It is mostly fights with a bit of inventory management.

 

This is why we see over and over, mods that try to replace that core gameplay entirely struggle with the scope of their ambition.

 

Mods that work the best fit in with it - DCL fits with the existing core gameplay - DF fits with the existing core gameplay, and SD+ falls into an awkward middle ground.

 

Whiterun Brothel ... does not fit so much ... but the actual gameplay it delivers ... oddly enough it's most entertaining when it's leveraging the existing core gameplay. Much of the sex is repetitive, boring, or simply broken. The assets simply aren't there, and weren't carefully picked, instead, too often, it's throw tags at SL and hope it comes up good. Tags rarely even deliver what you expect, let alone quality.

 

Maria Eden ... again, tried to make a game where you could not be the Dragonborn, and just be some nobody whore or pimp. There was insufficient content there to make it last long, but it really tried. The whoring system tried to give you something to do that wasn't combat, and wasn't just ... watching.

 

CD has its moments, but was spending hours of real time mining ore fun? It wasn't really. Nor was making dildos for hours. The maid part was ... immersive ... but also buggy. If only the maid part could have been better integrated with core skyrim, it would be my favorite LL mod. Maybe that can happen one day?

 

Slaverun is probably the closest thing to a major revamp of Skyrim, and it uses a lot of core gameplay, and the new version with the female slaver stuff gets the best of both worlds, about as much as you probably can in a Skyrim based sex-slavery game. But ... Slaverun does suffer from an excess of highly non-interactive scenes that can become quite repetitive.

 

However, if you make a game from scratch, what would the core gameplay be? Even many mods are still conflicted about the narrative pillars they rest on. Is your goal to avoid debasement? Seek it out? Have a choice and select your path? Should the act of sex be a game activity that you have to interact with strategically, tactically, or at a twitch level? There's a vast space of possible games out there, as yet, unmade. Vast.

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

However, if you make a game from scratch, what would the core gameplay be? Even many mods are still conflicted about the narrative pillars they rest on. Is your goal to avoid debasement? Seek it out? Have a choice and select your path? Should the act of sex be a game activity that you have to interact with strategically, tactically, or at a twitch level? There's a vast space of possible games out there, as yet, unmade. Vast. 

The truth is that just like you can't make a game that appeals to every gamer, and you can't make a porno that appeals to every fetish, you can't make a sex game that appeals to everyone.

 

What's necessary is a mainstream breakthrough of quality sex games in the west so that there are options to choose from.

 

The good news here is that it seems like that breakthrough is slowly happening right now, more and more amateur sex games are being made every month, and while the truth is that probably not half of those are ever going to be fully finished this is a huge increase from years past.

 

And Steam is now allowing uncensored games on their store, allowing easy access for a mainstream audience, eventually publishers are going to realise that there is a desire for high quality sex games, and while most such games are going to be extremely tame and bland atleast at the start, eventually a few gems will shine through, maybe we'll even get some AAA productions eventually? maybe not, but who knows?

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6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm glad you understood that I was talking primarily about movement in combat.

After reading it a second time, I suppose your suggestion could be interpreted in that fashion, although you never used the word "combat" until much farther down in your posting when describing your idea. I guess you should focus a bit less on delivering snarky, belittling comments, and more on getting your point across in a clear manner. Considering how long your posts tend to be, one should think dedicating a few words to clarity shouldn't be too much asked for.

 

I do welcome your suggestions. I have implemented a few of them, and got inspired by some more, but you honestly could tone down your hostility as soon as I say "nah, not going to happen" to one of them. That's not going to help your cause.

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Falling over all the time when walking from Markarth to Windhelm would be incredibly tedious.

 

The worn-out solution of slowing the player down for everything adds so little, and simply makes the dull parts of the game more dull.

You really only feel the pain when you have to walk miles from one side of the map to another. It's a waste of hours IRL that honestly, I do not have to waste.

Fortunately, DD lets you turn this off, but many other mods seem to add a slow-down on top of a slow-down.

Well, it's a restraint. These things aren't meant to make you more powerful, you know? They are meant to make you go "Oh crap, someone tied me up! I can't defend myself properly anymore, and need to get out of these things!" I have -no- idea why people install a bondage mod and then don't want the devices to do anything of consequence (that's not necessarily aimed at you, but that's usually my first thought when people tell me that they find this and that effect oh-so annoying and affecting their game oh-so harshly).

 

Thing is that no matter how harsh a DD device is, the framework STILL doesn't ever equip any devices on you. If you installed a content mod that overuses hard devices in situations that regularly result in tedium, use its settings to tone it down, or - if no such settings are available - uninstall that mod. People generally shouldn't play what's not fun for them!

 

Just for the record, I am not dead set on the slow effect. I do, however, think that it conveys the feeling of wearing such a device well enough. And that was and is the intent. If I hear a better idea I will consider it. Yours, in my humble opinion, isn't it. Making the player stumble out of combat is pointless, doing so in combat would regularly amount to guaranteed death, for the mobs would get ~5 seconds of free, unblockable hits in on you, while your character would be busy getting back on her feet. Not sure why you think that would be a fun feature, but hey!

 

You are correct - realism is relative. I totally concede that walking speed in heels is more a function of your practice wearing them and not so much a feature of the heels itself. It's totally possible to sprint in them, if you're used to wearing them. On the other hand, realistically you'd sink in, if you tried walking on soft surfaces while wearing heels. The same is true for falling - yes, people do fall when wearing heels. It happens. Just not often enough to make it a 'regular behavior' of these items. I would think it's silly to make a character fall all the time just because she's wearing heels - but when it doesn't happen with any regularity, the effect will have no impact on the game.

DD devices make compromises all the time to allow its devices to function in the game in a fun fashion, which is e.g. why it's possible to struggle out of an armbinder in DD, when in real life I am not aware of anyone who ever achieved such a feat.

I do admit that the speed effect is situational. When used in controlled environments it does exactly what it aims to do - giving you the feeling to be restrained without adding too much tedium. When used indiscriminately, it will suck the fun out of your game. If I ever hear a suggestion for a replacement effect that works better in ALL situations than the one we have in place, I'll listen.

 

 

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I released my first mod less than a week ago and people keep asking me to use the Petsuit and other major movement restricting items. I haven't found a good way to implement them yet. She sells them in the store, but I need to find a good way to add something like a hobbledress as a quest item. Right now I'm think of a scenario where you're doing things in an interior or a small hold. I really like the tight hobbledress. It's just hard to use it right.

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Well, for starters, never as in NEVER create anything unless -you- want to create it. Modders get all sorts of input about the direction of our work, phrased using the entire diplomatic range from polite request to blunt demand. But in the end, what goes in your mod is your decision and yours only. If I implemented stuff based on popular demand, DD and DCL would be full of bestiality involving every imaginable type of critter, gory torture stuff, and pet play. As you know, that didn't happen, for this stuff is really nothing I want to work on, or even be exposed to, no matter how popular it might be.

 

That aspect aside, some devices are really not suitable to be used outside of controlled situations. I made a quest using hobble skirts, and designed it so that the player was to walk only bearable distances in it. The pet suit - if you decide to use it - would need a similar design to work well. It's easily one of the Top 5 most punishing devices in DD, so equipping it on someone tasked with walking from Solitude to Riften is probably NOT the way to go! :D 

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1 hour ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I released my first mod less than a week ago and people keep asking me to use the Petsuit and other major movement restricting items. I haven't found a good way to implement them yet. She sells them in the store, but I need to find a good way to add something like a hobbledress as a quest item. Right now I'm think of a scenario where you're doing things in an interior or a small hold. I really like the tight hobbledress. It's just hard to use it right.

How about geting bound into a hobble dress lets say in your shop but the key is in uh lets say Riverwood. ?

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1 hour ago, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

How about geting bound into a hobble dress lets say in your shop but the key is in uh lets say Riverwood. ?

Yeah, something like that. It would have to be the relaxed version though. The tight one would be too much.

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2 hours ago, Kimy said:

Well, for starters, never as in NEVER create anything unless -you- want to create it. Modders get all sorts of input about the direction of our work, phrased using the entire diplomatic range from polite request to blunt demand. But in the end, what goes in your mod is your decision and yours only. If I implemented stuff based on popular demand, DD and DCL would be full of bestiality involving every imaginable type of critter, gory torture stuff, and pet play. As you know, that didn't happen, for this stuff is really nothing I want to work on, or even be exposed to, no matter how popular it might be.

 

That aspect aside, some devices are really not suitable to be used outside of controlled situations. I made a quest using hobble skirts, and designed it so that the player was to walk only bearable distances in it. The pet suit - if you decide to use it - would need a similar design to work well. It's easily one of the Top 5 most punishing devices in DD, so equipping it on someone tasked with walking from Solitude to Riften is probably NOT the way to go! :D 

I do listen to the suggestions, but I only make notes of the ones I like and that fit the mod.

Things like beastiality and pony play are things that will never happen in my mod. It is still my mod.

It now has 1800 downloads and 13000 views after only 5 days, that like 10x more than what I expected. The people are also really nice and generally know what fits the mod.

But I do see your problem with some that can't read instructions and those that DM creators with general support stuff.

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If your looking for a suggestion for heels then I would recommend either reduced carry weight and/or reduced sneak skill. After a little practice walking in heels, it is not a problem to keep upright. However no amount of practice is going to make walking in heels silent.  We also don't see people wearing high heels while trying to carry heavy objects because it can be painful. I do not believe these drawbacks would conflict with other mods.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I released my first mod less than a week ago and people keep asking me to use the Petsuit and other major movement restricting items. I haven't found a good way to implement them yet. She sells them in the store, but I need to find a good way to add something like a hobbledress as a quest item. Right now I'm think of a scenario where you're doing things in an interior or a small hold. I really like the tight hobbledress. It's just hard to use it right.

IMO the super restrictive items are best used in very controlled and focused scenarios with clear goals for the player.  The pet suit *is* already used by one mod that I know of, Devious Followers, and IMO it uses it perfectly.  Not to spoil the scene completely for those who haven't tried the mod and might, but that mod has a scene that can trigger in specific cells where the player is equipped with a petsuit, is required to present themselves to an NPC, get involved in a scene, and then walk-of-shame their way out of the cell while any NPC they pass makes humiliation comments about them.  The petsuit is removed immediately outside of the door from the cell, so the super-slow walking is kept to a minimum with a clear goal in mind (get to the NPC, get out).

 

Unfortunately making such a scene requires a *lot* of effort for a fairly short bit of content, but the result can be pretty memorable IMO.  I think a good idea of a strict hobbledress quest could be something like having to retrieve it from a specific house in a city/settlement, and then struggle your poor character as far as just outside the city gates, or to the local carriage driver.  At that point you could "jump" the character to your shop with a few dialogue boxes and a teleport.  Just a way to keep such a scene at a fun and manageable level.

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18 hours ago, Kimy said:

After reading it a second time, I suppose your suggestion could be interpreted in that fashion, although you never used the word "combat" until much farther down in your posting when describing your idea. I guess you should focus a bit less on delivering snarky, belittling comments, and more on getting your point across in a clear manner. Considering how long your posts tend to be, one should think dedicating a few words to clarity shouldn't be too much asked for.

I'm not sure what you mean. Belittling comments?

 

I have zero incentive to provoke the rage of Kimy. 

 

Yes, I considered the possibility that you had not noticed I discussed the combat related aspects of the idea, and I ruled it out as implausible.

It simply made more sense that you were, in fact, agreeing, and re-emphasising the combat part - that you felt people needed to focus on that part - which was quite correct.

 

I am simply not capable of the masterclass snark being attributed to me.

 

 

Of course, we all dislike having things we understand very well explained to us like we are idiots. That is the hateful thing about the internet, everything is discussed with almost no context, and little can be assumed about the reader one way or the other. There's a fine line between clarity and patronising, and it's easy for things to escalate in completely the wrong direction, when neither party really had that huge an investment in the thing to begin with.

 

That's why I took the position that you understood my post, rather than raging that you skimmed it, then assumed I was an idiot that needed setting straight, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. Many people may have skimmed it, and assumed the worst. Many more may have read your post and interpreted it as a put down aimed at me - but I chose not to assume the worst intention - but the damage, if there was any, if it even matters, would be done anyway - and the post where I get burned for my belittling comments (probably better I don't know what they were) will be all some people ever remember of this.

 

 

Sadly, I explained it as best I could at the time. I tried to write it another way before posting it, but it was even more confusing. It's only with the feedback and responses that people have provided - with that process of gradual clarification - that it's possible to understand it easily. Each one of those posts was based on all the previous ones, and fortunately, with each one, things have been made clearer (that doesn't always happen).

 

I'm only able to explain why it wasn't explained "perfectly" to begin with now, because of that chain of events and discussion.

 

 

I'm not the one with the "bully pulpit" here, I'm just some irrelevant schmuck. If the situations were reversed, I'd like to hope that I would take account of the power differential at play in such situations. If you are Kimy, you can talk very softly and still be heard. I could be yelling in bright yellow 80pt comic sans, and most people would simply skim on past, desperate for news about actual DD or DCL development.

 

It's not unlikely that many readers only ever read the snippet of my post that you quoted, and never read the original, because your posts are what most people are reading this forum for, and mine are just in their way. So, I made an effort to set out to ensure the original point of my post wasn't lost entirely, and that absolutely everyone didn't go away assuming I was a moron, who understood neither health recovery in Skyrim, nor shoes. I at least put the defence of my idiocy in a hidden block ... and the better part of that rant was not aimed at you, or DD, but at the widespread tendency to make every-other debuff in LL reduce speed. It ends up being like Eddie Izzard's chiropractors routine ... hopefully forum will not replace this link with a giant video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc534eAmyrw

 

18 hours ago, Kimy said:

I do welcome your suggestions. I have implemented a few of them, and got inspired by some more, but you honestly could tone down your hostility as soon as I say "nah, not going to happen" to one of them. That's not going to help your cause.

I don't have a "cause" here. I don't even think this idea should be implemented. Maybe it's a starting point for some experimentation ... possibly ... but it was not a design ready to implement, and without prototyping it with different settings, and tweaking it over the long-term, it would likely be rubbish - and might turn out to never be workable. Such work would certainly be a time-sink.

 

I'm quite happy with the ability to disable boots slow-down that already exists in DD.

 

I'm fairly sure there are many things the vast majority of users and developers would rather see progress, whether it be DCL 7, or DD furniture, or DD factions, or ... whatever new assets are going into DD next.

 

18 hours ago, Kimy said:

Well, it's a restraint. These things aren't meant to make you more powerful, you know?

I don't think I can out-snark that one.

Ever.

 

18 hours ago, Kimy said:

I have -no- idea why people install a bondage mod and then don't want the devices to do anything of consequence

Surely, you are agreeing with me here? Because my original point was about adding more consequence where it matters - where it makes a difference - and removing incentives for people to start turning off features.

 

I think there are probably more posts, generally, and not just me, of people asking for things to be harder. The overwhelming trend with DF, for example, is for people to want it harder, more punishing, tougher to escape, and so on. My suggestion that armbinders optionally have mittens no-pick-up effect was hardly a make it easier call.

 

If you look back at the old SD+ forums pages (from when it was first taken over) through to now (and yes, I did read them ALL, start to finish, it took days) you'll see the trend is both for the developer and the users to want it made harder, for loopholes to be closed, for easy ways to escape shut-off. And then we have things like SD+ cages, that make pick-pocket escapes almost impossible (if cages worked, alas it doesn't seem to any longer).

 

But my point is simply this, there's much more pressure from established users - who know every little exploit and loophole - for things to be made harder and less forgiving, than there is for stuff to be made easy. Whether that is the right direction to go ... it's complicated.

 

The robust debate over DD4 options, and how they should be presented was not a demand for it to be easier than 3.X, it was about customisation and individual preference being taken away... Even if it wasn't actually being taken away, people felt it was. Ironically, that was a problem with how well the new options were documented and explained.

 

As for falling over. Crank the existing setting up to 80 or so - it still doesn't happen as often as you'd think - not like the belt frustration animations - and play in IFP. Getting knocked over, or falling over is hugely disorienting and quite impactful. Also somewhat immersive, in that it generates much more sense of unease and lack of confidence than simply walking like you forgot to turn off sneak.

 

This too, is already implemented, working fine. No need for changes. Some will hate playing like this. Some will appreciate it. It's definitely not for everyone.

 

Anyway. That's my last word on this. I certainly didn't intent for a mere fluff-entertainment post for people to muse over to cause so much grief.

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Talking about petsuits and really slow walking restraints, it is a shame you cannot trigger some kind of fast travel scenario (while outside and travelling far away), where you have an encounter representing the hardships along the way of using something really punishing like that and then after the conclusion of the even or the time limit, you trigger the normal fast travel (with a slower timeframe) and teleport to the destination you picked.

 

In my case I just disable fast travel blocking for most of the devices. It is not ideal, but I get better control for such punishing restraints.

 

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8 minutes ago, dark vergil said:

would be cool if the catsuits/rubber suit (and that transparent one) changed to an unzipped one for sex scenes 

maybe have the crotch area unzipped kind of like these pics?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Related image

 

Image result for catsuit porn

 

Image result for catsuit porn

 

Related image

 

Related image

 

 

 

 

This is already in progress and will be in a future release of DD.

 

Speaking of which, any updates on the development of DD?

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