? The Selachii - Shark Race

[NightroModzz]

41 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Do you really think you can morph the Argonian teeth? Would remove the need to create new tris if done right, yes, but with the extremely low polycount of the mesh itself, I don't see it being exactly easy.

Well, since the shape is similar, it having one or two loops to make curves would be ideal. I need to look at the mesh .I'm hoping it has at least one loop, and not just 3 or 4 triangles per teeth.

[Kuroyami]

2 hours ago, NightroModzz said:

So basically, Dino teeth? Since they have a tongue for speech, I guess it makes sense that the teeth would dull out, and not have many smaller razor sharp teeth.

To a point, but the idea is that their teeth are very sharp, hence the bite power. And I have a load screen tip at this point, that suggests their teeth can always grow back, like real sharks. 

 

Though perhaps these give a better idea. 

wolfy-nail - maybe not as big as shown here, but to give an idea of the sharpness, and perhaps maybe how they might look like this, or close to it, when the mouth is closed or in certain expressions(if that is even a consideration to do custom ones for this race).

rena_ayama

xpray

[Blaze69]

In other (lore-related) news, I just came across this Reddit thread on /teslore that may be of interest for us: What is this island to the east of Black Marsh called?

 

Turns out there is indeed an island on the eastern coast of BM that shows up on the Tamriel maps but doesn't seem to be given any specific name or is otherwise referenced. It's also too close to the mainland to be one of the handful of independent island kingdoms that are between Tamriel and Akavir (plus I think all of them are mentioned by name in the Disaster of Ionith report so we would know its name).

 

Being "Stros M'Kai sized", could mean the island would be a bit small depending on how much space-compression we assume there has been in the ingame representations of the island (it's both in ESO and in ES Adventures: Redguard), but would also fit the high-density city-insland idea envisioned by Kuroyami. Worst case scenario, the island could be said to be bigger and the size on the map would be an error.

 

I think we found our Same-Shuto, assuming there is indeed no more info on that island elsewhere in the lore.

 

For reference:

Spoiler

 

[Kuroyami]

22 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Being "Stros M'Kai sized", could mean the island would be a bit small depending on how much space-compression we assume there has been in the ingame representations of the island (it's both in ESO and in ES Adventures: Redguard), but would also fit the high-density city-island idea envisioned by Kuroyami. Worst case scenario, the island could be said to be bigger and the size on the map would be an error.

Well, there is one problem with that. I've been thinking for a while that Same-Shuto is on an island that is to the South of Black Marsh, possibly a few miles away from the city of Lilmoth listed on the above map(either directly south or south east) - which may be a port city, but I'm not sure if the lore suggests it is. 

 

Might still suggest the island on the map is indeed where Same-Shuto is, but I'm not sure. 

[Kuroyami]

I've had this as an idea for a while, but not really worked out. Not sure if I would do any more of these, as I am not sure it might fit for anything else in the mod, though it might. That being, a world event(i.e the various encounters you can have on roadsides, etc).

 

Regardless, the background on this concerns the Helhiem location I've mentioned before, and this event specifically involves a cult surrounding the, legend of Hela, though the entire point is that, the cult has some beliefs that, simply are not true at all. Most of them are, or will be deluded, though they have some basis of knowledge on the truth, it is skewed to believe something that is not. Though the event itself will of course, as other events in the game, similarly spawn an NPC, though this one is meant to stand out from them. 

 

The appearance of this NPC can be randomized(the vanilla facegen), but the character is always meant to be female, and a Nord, wearing Black Robes with a hood. When spoken to(not a forced dialog), she gives these lines(there may be more at some point). 

 

Spoiler

[Introduction]

 

C – Praise to the true High Queen of Skyrim. Let all hear the truth – Death, Lives!

 

[General Dialog]

 

[PC] What are your thoughts on the Civil War?
         |
        C – It is meaningless. Eventually, the True High Queen will awaken, and the conflict will become a footnote in history. 

 

[PC] Who do you think is the True High King?
         |
        C – All of them have been posers, standing in the shadow of true power. They believe that men, weapons, and political savvy are what matters. What gives them power. 
               |
              C – The True High Queen of Skyrim, needs none of that. She is power, with no need for others. 

 

[PC] “Death Lives”? What? 
        |
       C – But it is true. Many believe a legend – something they can shove away in a library. A tome they can merely let become dusty, which will never threaten them. 
              |
            C – Death, is no legend. She is, real. 

 

[PC] [AppearsOnlyWhenOtherOptionsAreExhausted] Are you referring to death, as a name?
        |
       C – Yes. 
              |
            C – She rules from the north, in the cold. In the ruin that bares her name. Where she was violated, and exalted. Where she accepted impurity, to become pure. 
                   |
                 [PC] Where is this place?
                         |
                        C – Why do you wish to seek it?
                               |
                             [PC] I would like to meet her, if what you say is true.
                                     |
                                    C – Then you shall go to meet with Death, but not all shall be successful in that endeavor. Perhaps, you will perish before you find, true death. 
                                           |
                                          C – You must find the place of death near the High Gates, in sight of the Ghosts, west of the star of Dawn.

 

                             [PC] [PCIsAVampire] I wish to truly know, death.
                                     |
                                    C – Perhaps you shall, know it even more than you currently do. [She knows] 
                                           |
                                          C – You must find the place of death near the High Gates, in sight of the Ghosts, west of the star of Dawn.

 

                             [PC] [PCIsAVampire] I can appreciate power, if nothing else.    
                                     |
                                    C – Perhaps you will find power in true death, or you may only find disappointment, never having known true death, or power. 
                                           |
                                          C – You must find the place of death near the High Gates, in sight of the Ghosts, west of the star of Dawn.

 

                             [PC] She sounds dangerous.
                                     |
                                    C – Perhaps, but only to those who cross her. But if you wish to test yourself, I will tell you.
                                           |
                                          C – You must find the place of death near the High Gates, in sight of the Ghosts, west of the star of Dawn.

 

                 [PC] Do you mean the Pale?
                         |
                        C – Yes, the seat of power which she made possible, to be as such. Not just a mere coastline, but a thriving port city.
                               |
                              [PC] Have you seen Dawnstar? It is only a village.
                                      |
                                    C – It is the foolishness of mortals that rendered it a place of wood and thatch. When Death awakens, she will return Dawn's Star to it's glory.
                 
                 [PC] What is this, “Death”?
                         |
                        C – Immortal. Unending. Undying. 
                               |
                             [PC] Yes, but...is she mortal?
                                     |
                                    C – Death does not need mortality. She is unending, undying. Eternal. 

 

                             [PC] [PCIsAVampire] Is she, a Vampire?
                                     |
                                    C – No. She is power, and no mere creature feasting on blood. 

 

                 [PC] [CW-ImperialVictory] Do you mean, the Jarl of the Pale?
                         |
                       C – No – Brina is, like others, a puppet. One serving the true power in these lands. 

 

 

[Kuroyami]

Okay, so...Enkai. Obviously my initial idea for him was that, to get him as a follower, you needed to be either a male, or futa character. However, I think that might be restrictive, and not very interesting for either gameplay or story. That being said, it may be better if the follower option is open to anyone, but a possible relationship you can build with him in dialog, will require you being a male or futa character, which will allow for similar scenes as Mizuno currently has.

 

Also, some more dialog for him...

Spoiler

[PC] Are you a Mage?
        |
       E – No, not exactly. I may practice a little, but more of my studies focus on other things. History, culture, information of that nature.
             |
            E – The main focus of my studies is...not something my race has not already touched upon, though at least they have little issue speaking of such things, either normally, or academically. 

 

[PC] [RequiresAboveLine] So you are more of a scholar then...
        |
       E – Yes, though it is not something that is entirely uncommon among my race, though I have certainly understood most races tend to have them.
              |
            [PC] What have you focused on?
                    |
                   E – The names are innumerable, and perhaps any of them would suffice. But what I've devoted countless hours of study to would be...cocks.
                          |
                         E – Of various races, shapes, functions, orientations, sizes, excretions, everything involved. Though that would not be the only thing I've studied, just the most extensive.
                                |
                              [PC] Why?
                                      |
                                     E – I find the diversity, interesting. Though I certainly have not gone to the lengths of viewing many animals up close, I have seen a majority. 
                                           |
                                          E – Among Selachii, it is known what we usually have, and it seems other races keep a, tight focus on less, intimate details. 

 

                              [PC] [Speech=25] Is this interest merely, academic, or is it more personal?
                                      |
                                     E – Both. 

Slightly expanded this one, and there will certainly be more to it. Also, this and other character's dialogs may have instances were a certain skill level is required to get the line. Not a percentage chance to get the NPC's response, a flat skill check. If say in the above example you don't have the required speech? You do not get that option. There may be a variation for a lower speech skill, and others - though I'm not sure about doing what New Vegas did, and portray a low speech character as a complete idiot(and there is the fact that that skill starts at fifteen like the others, barring any increases due to race).  

 

Spoiler

[PC] Can you tell me about your family?
        |
       E – My father was a member of the Imperial Legion, while my mother, is perhaps no one of note, but I think otherwise. Most children would probably think so about their parents.
             |
            E – But my father was killed in the Great War, and this left my mother an expecting widow, with a significant sum to her name, and only a few weeks until I would be born.
                   |
                  [PC] Who...was she?
                          |
                         E – Hinode, is her name – and she is still alive, living with her family, and mine. 
                                |
                               E – She is healthy, and I plan to eventually return home at some point. 
                                      |
                                     [PC] Does she have time for that?
                                             |
                                            E – Certainly. Selachii do not age like other races, except for perhaps Elves, and we do not age like them either. 

 

                                     [PC] [PlayerIsASelachii] Sounds like you certainly time time, then.
                                             |
                                            E – Of course. Something could happen before I return, but I keep to the hope that I will see her again. 

 

                  [PC] Do you know anything about your father?
                          |
                         E – Not too much beyond the fact that he was killed during the attack on the Imperial City, perhaps hours before the entire conflict ended, and...
                                |
                               E – His body was...not treated properly, as far as my mother would have preferred, however, the Legionnaire who eventually found my mother, gave her not only a bag or two of gold, but also the remnants of his armor.
                                     |
                                    [PC] [CHOOSE ONE] The bracers and boots you are wearing, right?
                                            |
                                           E – Yes, my mother gave them to me before I left. I cannot say they have saved my life, but a few times they have helped me avoid injury. 

 

                                    [PC] [CHOOSE ONE] Where are they now?
                                            |
                                           E – I have them, right here. I cannot say they have saved my life, but a few times they have helped me avoid injury.

 

                                    [PC] Who was this Legionnaire?
                                            |
                                           E – An Argonian, by the name of Julian – he made a point to show great respect to the Selachii race, and he seems to have been a good friend of my father's. 
                                                 |
                                                [PC] Do you know where he is now?
                                                        |
                                                       E – He retired from the Legion a few years after he visited Same-Shuto, and...seems to have settled down in the city when he returned. 
                                                             |
                                                            E – I met him when I briefly lived in the city, before I left to travel Tamriel. He was older then, and did not know me when I introduced myself. 
                                                                  |
                                                                 E – But when I did, I swear he had a tear in his eye – he said I looked very much like my father. He was not at all displeased when I told him of my scholarly pursuits. 

 

                                                [PC] [RequiresAboveLine] He wasn't displeased you did not wish to join the Legion?
                                                        |
                                                       E – He may have thought it a good idea, but realized that such a choice was mine to make. Though he was pleased that I knew something of my father, and suggested...
                                                              |
                                                             E – ...that I visit the Imperial City, and see the memorial that bares my father's name. It was actually...one of the first things I did when I arrived in the heart of the Empire. 

 

                                                [PC] What rank was he?
                                                        |
                                                       E – I'm not too sure, but I know he had a set of silver or steel armor, that had the Empire's dragon on the chestplate. 
                                                              |
                                                             [PC] Do Argonians often have high status in the Legion?
                                                                     |
                                                                    E – I do understand the prejudices that have almost plagued Argonains, and Khajiit, among others. It may be pure luck that my own race has seen less of it. 
                                                                          |
                                                                         E – I believe Julian told me his rank was awarded though exceptional merit, and he believed some of his superiors were giving him the rank begrudgingly, though it was not ill-earned. 
                                                

                                    [PC] [RequiresAboveLine] How long did it take to find your mother?
                                            |
                                           E – He arrived in Same-Shuto about a month after the battle, and even going before the Selachii Council did not tell him much.
                                                 |
                                                E – Eventually, he found information that lead him to her, and this was three weeks after he arrived. 

 

                  [PC] That sum was not much, was it?
                          |
                         E – No, it was not. It only lasted about three years, just enough time for me to start walking on my own. 

 

                  [PC] Only a few weeks?
                          |
                         E – My father left just a few days after...well, you know. He did not want to go, but my mother did not hate him for leaving, even if she wanted to. 

 

Additionally, I've made an addition to the Racial Phylogeny book, to include Selachii. Might be including more changes, as well as a possible version for Yiffy Age that change some descriptions where necessary to fit that mod. 

[Blaze69]

10 hours ago, Kuroyami said:

Okay, so...Enkai. Obviously my initial idea for him was that, to get him as a follower, you needed to be either a male, or futa character. However, I think that might be restrictive, and not very interesting for either gameplay or story. That being said, it may be better if the follower option is open to anyone, but a possible relationship you can build with him in dialog, will require you being a male or futa character, which will allow for similar scenes as Mizuno currently has.

Sounds good to me. Restricting him as a follower to only a specific set of characters makes the choice a bit more meaningful and to be honest it's not like Skyrim is ever going to run out of followers to choose from, but I like the idea of still making him useful somewhat but restricting the non-generic-follower interactions to only the character's he's interested in (as he wouldn't care about any others enough to strike that specific conversation/interaction).

10 hours ago, Kuroyami said:

Also, this and other character's dialogs may have instances were a certain skill level is required to get the line. Not a percentage chance to get the NPC's response, a flat skill check. If say in the above example you don't have the required speech? You do not get that option. There may be a variation for a lower speech skill, and others - though I'm not sure about doing what New Vegas did, and portray a low speech character as a complete idiot(and there is the fact that that skill starts at fifteen like the others, barring any increases due to race).  

Set up a dialogue option that checks for the PC's skill level, and if the check fails, it shows a fallback option instead with no requirements (but that will be different and may or may not provide as much information as the skill check one). Relatively eaay to set up once the base dialogue structure itself is built, so we could look into that.

10 hours ago, Kuroyami said:

Additionally, I've made an addition to the Racial Phylogeny book, to include Selachii. Might be including more changes, as well as a possible version for Yiffy Age that change some descriptions where necessary to fit that mod. 

That sounds great. Anything that helps integrate the Selachii into the setting and lore is fine by me. Plus, I don't recall that specific book being edited by any other mod except for Book Covers (unlike, say, The Real Barenziah or The Lusty Argonian Maid which have "de-censor" or "expansion" patches), so conflicts should be minimal and in the case of Book Covers it should be fixed if you regenerate the Smash Patch.

 

As for the YA version, that's up to you. Though it's true that it could use some tweaks to better fit the YA lore. For example, I don't see how Orc reproduction and their possible cross-races viability would be "unknown" as per the book, since in YA they are felines just like the elven races and would make sense for them to be able to breed with them (and possibly canines as well).

[Kuroyami]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

Sounds good to me. Restricting him as a follower to only a specific set of characters makes the choice a bit more meaningful and to be honest it's not like Skyrim is ever going to run out of followers to choose from, but I like the idea of still making him useful somewhat but restricting the non-generic-follower interactions to only the character's he's interested in (as he wouldn't care about any others enough to strike that specific conversation/interaction).

Basically, yes. Though the point of the change would be to avoid the idea that his only reason for joining you, is because of that interest. Along with this, his dialog in regards to you fitting his preferences, will not be something forced on the player. As both you may be interested in him as a follower and a friend, but not wishing to take it any further. It is also possible your character could already be married, and while he(along with the rest of the followers in this mod), won't have such  an option himself, he would wish to respect that. 

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

Set up a dialogue option that checks for the PC's skill level, and if the check fails, it shows a fallback option instead with no requirements (but that will be different and may or may not provide as much information as the skill check one). Relatively easy to set up once the base dialogue structure itself is built, so we could look into that.

Well, the idea would be that the lines of the player's that require skill checks, would not be the only options they would have at that point. They would have variations to them, if the skill check isn't met, like the above one that could have a secondary line(possibly being more blunt about the question), and might require only 15 in speech, but would in function work for if you have anything from 15 to 24. 

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

That sounds great. Anything that helps integrate the Selachii into the setting and lore is fine by me. Plus, I don't recall that specific book being edited by any other mod except for Book Covers (unlike, say, The Real Barenziah or The Lusty Argonian Maid which have "de-censor" or "expansion" patches), so conflicts should be minimal and in the case of Book Covers it should be fixed if you regenerate the Smash Patch.

Yeah, I generally do use the Book Covers mod, and could easily make a patch for it with TESVEdit. The only thing I've really used that generates a patch would be Dual Sheath Redux. 

 

Otherwise, I might make it quite different. Perhaps even to the point where, it would have a different suggested author. Primarily because I find it interesting someone would write on what seems such a broad topic, and have reservations about certain aspects. Surely, people would have various things they would not like, and perhaps this is due more to it being a technical small point as far as the overall game is concerned, and Bethesda might not feel a need to suggest exactly what an Orc would have swinging in the breeze. But this mod of course could, though it might get a little annoying to describe certain things, knowing that they may or may not be exactly that in every game. 

 

Of course the Yiffy Age version of the text will have this as much less of a problem. Along with certainly filling a few gaps in the presented information. 

 

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

Yeah, I generally do use the Book Covers mod, and could easily make a patch for it with TESVEdit. The only thing I've really used that generates a patch would be Dual Sheath Redux. 

The thing is, Mator Smash usually takes care of fixing conflicts with Book Covers itself, because while several mods can edit the text and/or name of a book and it's usually the last one that wins and gets to override the rest during "smashing", the 3D mesh itself is never changed, so MS sees that Book Covers edits that parameter and other mods revert it to vanilla and restores BC's mesh in the patch.

 

So it's not really that Book Covers has a specific patcher but rather that the way Mator Smash works means it usually takes care of most conflicts with it.

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Otherwise, I might make it quite different. Perhaps even to the point where, it would have a different suggested author. Primarily because I find it interesting someone would write on what seems such a broad topic, and have reservations about certain aspects. Surely, people would have various things they would not like, and perhaps this is due more to it being a technical small point as far as the overall game is concerned, and Bethesda might not feel a need to suggest exactly what an Orc would have swinging in the breeze. But this mod of course could, though it might get a little annoying to describe certain things, knowing that they may or may not be exactly that in every game.

Other alternative would be a separate and newer "Revised" version of the book with proper Selachii info added in, maybe coupled with a handful of edits to the original book so it does mention them but only vaguely and with inaccurate information (like the vanilla one does with Orcs).

 

Since an entire separate book focused on the Selachii is already planned as part of the lore books, I wouldn't focus too much on them in the Racial Phylogeny one, though; some mention or acknowledgement like vanilla races have but not going into more detail than with the others.

 

So I guess simply adding some info on/mention of Selachii in the vanilla book and relying on the lore book itself to go into detail on them could be a good option as well.

[Kuroyami]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:53 AM, Blaze69 said:

Other alternative would be a separate and newer "Revised" version of the book with proper Selachii info added in, maybe coupled with a handful of edits to the original book so it does mention them but only vaguely and with inaccurate information (like the vanilla one does with Orcs).

 

Since an entire separate book focused on the Selachii is already planned as part of the lore books, I wouldn't focus too much on them in the Racial Phylogeny one, though; some mention or acknowledgement like vanilla races have but not going into more detail than with the others.

 

So I guess simply adding some info on/mention of Selachii in the vanilla book and relying on the lore book itself to go into detail on them could be a good option as well.

I have actually linked the edited version in the blog(the Planned Writing entry) already, and currently I have this for the Selachii:

Spoiler

There is also the Selachii to note - a race bearing a similarity to the Argonians, but they appear as based on sharks, rather than lizards. Their physiology seems far more well documented, being quite open to share information about such a topic. Their bodies seem to possess scales similar to that of the Argonians, but they are much more fine, appearing very much like human skin to those not able to get close enough, and their skeletal structure is similar in form, save for the difference in the skull and the fact that they possess a tail befitting their possible ancestors, along with a fairly large fin that is at the middle of their back, which is able to bend when not swimming. Otherwise, it seems true that the Selachii are able to breed with the other races of Tamriel, though the result is almost exactly the same - the offspring depending on the mother's race. It is unknown if a child born as a result of such a union would inherit any traits from a Selachii father, or if a child born of a Selachii mother would inherit any traits from the father of a different race. 

 

Not sure if I'll consider essentially rewriting the vanilla book(and adding a lot more details, at least concerning the other mentioned races), or going for a lengthier revised version. Possibly the former. Mostly since it would fit with the Yiffy Age version, with the though that standards on various aspects of society would be relaxed, and while you might occasionally get those who keep to a higher standard, and some points, it just isn't possible. So very much like the Selachii's view on such things - which I believe would go so far as perhaps seeing various examples of nudity in a public place, and almost no one voices any kind of problem with it. Though they would of course, have instances were some kind of more modest attire would be required, 

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

[...]

I'll leave it up to you. Whatever option you think works best, as all of them are feasible AFAIK.

 

On a different subject, did we ever come up with a proper timeline for the race? I mean from back when they were still in Akavir (maybe even starting with their "creation") all the way through the exodus and their history in Tamriel up to the present aka Skyrim time? Or something like that? There's been mention of several events and their effect on Selachii (like the Oblivion Crisis and maaaybe the Alliance war depicted in ESO?), but I can't seem to piece the whole thing together. Could come in handy with figuring out how to make them fit into the already-established timeline of Tamriel.

 

Just a suggestion, though.

 

On yet another unrelated (and in this case NSFW) subject, it recently came to my attention that a certain quirk of the shark-like anatomy could have an interesting implication for Selachii during intimate action. Best exemplified here: lizardlars.

 

(TBH, it shouldn't really have any implications for the mod outside of maybe a mention or two in dialogue or some of the books, i just kinda wanted to share it, lol. The same author also did a piece on, huh, gilljobs, but I don't really see that happening with the current gill design so that is better ignored ?).

[Kuroyami]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

On a different subject, did we ever come up with a proper timeline for the race? I mean from back when they were still in Akavir (maybe even starting with their "creation") all the way through the exodus and their history in Tamriel up to the present aka Skyrim time? Or something like that? There's been mention of several events and their effect on Selachii (like the Oblivion Crisis and maaaybe the Alliance war depicted in ESO?), but I can't seem to piece the whole thing together. Could come in handy with figuring out how to make them fit into the already-established timeline of Tamriel.

 

Just a suggestion, though.

Well, I have been considering that, but it is a lot to consider, especially since it could be considered a bit boring if all those details were thought out completely, when supposedly the race only knows a fraction of it's history in Akavir. Maybe someone like Gaku would know a lot more, and the intention is for the player to learn a number of details about the race through him, that almost no Selachii knows. 

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

On yet another unrelated (and in this case NSFW) subject, it recently came to my attention that a certain quirk of the shark-like anatomy could have an interesting implication for Selachii during intimate action. Best exemplified here: lizardlars.

 

(TBH, it shouldn't really have any implications for the mod outside of maybe a mention or two in dialogue or some of the books, i just kinda wanted to share it, lol. The same author also did a piece on, huh, gilljobs, but I don't really see that happening with the current gill design so that is better ignored ?).

Huh. Well, I have seen the image in that second link already. But honestly, I think this might be something a little too much like sticking it into a nose otherwise. Plus, I'd think gills might not function like that, though I could be wrong. Otherwise, you might see something with the gills, similar to having something you are drinking come out of your nose with the right conditions. 

[MadMansGun]

2 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

On yet another unrelated (and in this case NSFW) subject, it recently came to my attention that a certain quirk of the shark-like anatomy could have an interesting implication for Selachii during intimate action. Best exemplified here: lizardlars.

your only just seeing that now?

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

Well, I have been considering that, but it is a lot to consider, especially since it could be considered a bit boring if all those details were thought out completely, when supposedly the race only knows a fraction of it's history in Akavir. Maybe someone like Gaku would know a lot more, and the intention is for the player to learn a number of details about the race through him, that almost no Selachii knows. 

I was thinking more of a reference frame for us, not necessarily being explained in full detail ingame. Mainly because even at this point I'm still confused about when are they supposed to have reached Tamriel, for example.

 

But as I said, just a suggestion. If you have a clear enough idea already as-is, that's fine by me.

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Huh. Well, I have seen the image in that second link already. But honestly, I think this might be something a little too much like sticking it into a nose otherwise.

Nah, as I said I simply kinda felt like posting that, lol.

 

Some mention of "...coming out of my gills" somewhere (probably as a joke) would fit with the idea on the first image, but otherwise forget about that one.

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Plus, I'd think gills might not function like that, though I could be wrong. Otherwise, you might see something with the gills, similar to having something you are drinking come out of your nose with the right conditions. 

Don't quote me on this, 'cause my knowledge of shark anatomy and biology is non-existant, but I think gills do "work like that", in the sense that they are connected to the mouth. Water goes into the mouth and then out through the gills. But I'll have to check.

 

Speaking of (and for whatever it my be worth, like the Anatomy book or whatever), the way I see it, Selachii have both gills and lungs. When on the surface, the gills remain closed shut and it's the lungs that take care of breathing; when underwater, the larynx closes and the gills open. Incidentally, this also serves to explain the "breathing" sound that plays when you surface after breathing, as that means the gills have closed and the character is inspiring air to start breathing through the lungs again (I mention this because I've seen some requests to remove that sound for Argonians elsewhere because it supposedly doesn't make sense if they have waterbreathing).

 

Which, back to your last point there, means that a sudden and strong enough burst of fluids into the mouth (be it because of the reason you mention or more naughty ones) could force the gills open for a brief moment and cause that effect .

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

your only just seeing that now?

I mean, I don't browse E6 that often, and when I do and go for shark stuff, I usually go for females. So that's why I may have missed it before .

[MadMansGun]

54 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Don't quote me on this, 'cause my knowledge of shark anatomy and biology is non-existant, but I think gills do "work like that", in the sense that they are connected to the mouth. Water goes into the mouth and then out through the gills. But I'll have to check.

yes they do:

54 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I mean, I don't browse E6 that often, and when I do and go for shark stuff, I usually go for females. So that's why I may have missed it before .

i saw it on FA when it was first uploaded, and ldr made blowhole sex before that:

https://e621.net/post/show/174016/2011-animal_genitalia-animal_penis-anthro-ari_-sos

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

yes they do:

Whaddayaknow, I was right. I take it my idea on how Selachii breathe can be remotely reasonable after all, lol.

Quote

i saw it on FA when it was first uploaded, and ldr made blowhole sex before that:

https://e621.net/post/show/174016/2011-animal_genitalia-animal_penis-anthro-ari_-sos

I don't really browse FA, don't like the fact that you need to log in to see NSFW content. Plus E6's tag search system is awesome and way better that FA's, at least IMO.

 

Dolphins, huh? Didn't really think of them before, but if sharks can be nice, so can dolphins, I guess (and killer whales too). I shall look further into this matter now... 

[Kuroyami]

Well, that took a while, for a few reasons. Also, not highly relevant, but...

 

It at least looks better than before, and this is only vanilla. Though it did somewhat surprise me, the launcher did mention setting things at Ultra High.  Still have a lot more to set up.

[Azala]

Ugh, I hate to ask this (and I apologize if it's already been asked!), but is there a way to make the Better Claws and Gauntlets meshes work with the race? I don't mean the naked hands -- those are beautiful! It's just when the sharks put on fingerless gloves and bracers and the like, they end up with clawless hands and it bugs the hell out of me.

 

I think I saw something about CK needing to be involved too... unless the same changes can be made using TES5Edit.

 

I'm greatly looking forward to the story and follower expansions too, by the way. You guys are doing great work.

[Kuroyami]

Just now, Azala said:

Ugh, I hate to ask this (and I apologize if it's already been asked!), but is there a way to make the Better Claws and Gauntlets meshes work with the race? I don't mean the naked hands -- those are beautiful! It's just when the sharks put on fingerless gloves and bracers and the like, they end up with clawless hands and it bugs the hell out of me.

 

I think I saw something about CK needing to be involved too... unless the same changes can be made using TES5Edit.

 

I'm greatly looking forward to the story and follower expansions too, by the way. You guys are doing great work.

The problem there, is that the Selachii race, I think, is set up to use the DefaultRace armor sets - this is due to the head shape being close to that of the human heads in the game. As a consequence, the race uses meshes meant for the human/elven races, not ones meant to use meshes for Khajiit or Argonians. Changing the ArmorRace the Selachii(and Selachii Vampires) use would certainly keep the clawed nails with gauntlets(with the mentioned mod), though it might cause some trouble with helmets. 

[Azala]

8 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

The problem there, is that the Selachii race, I think, is set up to use the DefaultRace armor sets - this is due to the head shape being close to that of the human heads in the game. As a consequence, the race uses meshes meant for the human/elven races, not ones meant to use meshes for Khajiit or Argonians. Changing the ArmorRace the Selachii(and Selachii Vampires) use would certainly keep the clawed nails with gauntlets(with the mentioned mod), though it might cause some trouble with helmets. 

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. If that can at all be fixed in a future update that'd be cool, but honestly, I'd rather have silly-looking nubby nails than dodgy helmets.

[Blaze69]

7 hours ago, Azala said:

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. If that can at all be fixed in a future update that'd be cool, but honestly, I'd rather have silly-looking nubby nails than dodgy helmets.

Basically what Kuroyami said, though I should note that it is actually possible to change what armor meshes Selachii get. In this case, you would have to edit the Better Claws plugin to remove DefaultRace from the races list of the "human" gauntlet ArmorAddons and add it to the corresponding beast AAs. DefaultRace is not used by any of the vanilla races, so changing what ArmorAddons correspond to it shouldn't have any effect on them; in this case, after editing the plugin, humans and elves should still get human hands while Selachii get clawed hands just like Khajiits and Argonians.

 

This is also why it would be possible to give Selachii their own separate meshes for any gear we wanted (mainly helmets, though, as those are the only ones that don't fit that well at the moment) and it's something I may look into at some point in the future if we can come up with the proper meshes for it (I can give it a shot, and Nightro has said he may be up for editing some helmets too). Hell, depending on what mods are available for it and whether I feel like doing it or not, I could even look into making a patch for DD at some point (no promises, though).

 

The only "downside" to it is that if you use any other custom race mods and they also point to DefaultRace, they would get the Selachii meshes as well and they probably wouldn't look right; but since most of the custom races are humans or elves, it would simply be a matter of changing their armor reference to any of the other vanilla races (i.e. NordRace for humans and WoodElfRace for elves) and everything should work just fine.

[Azala]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

[...]

Oh, that's neat! As far as looking into it goes, there's no rush -- it is your guys' mod, after all! -- it was just something I was wondering about. The way I have my Selachii profile set up, there's no other custom races in it, so I believe such a patch would work perfectly... but like you and Kuroyami mentioned, yeah, definitely not workable for everyone.

 

Thanks a ton for the explanations. 

[Blaze69]

23 minutes ago, Azala said:

Oh, that's neat! As far as looking into it goes, there's no rush -- it is your guys' mod, after all! -- it was just something I was wondering about.

Once the new update is out (which as I've stated already should be around September), I may think about editing the Better Claws plugin so they get the clawed hands and post it here, though again, no promises. Same goes for the helmets thing.

Quote

The way I have my Selachii profile set up, there's no other custom races in it, so I believe such a patch would work perfectly... but like you and Kuroyami mentioned, yeah, definitely not workable for everyone.

Actually, AFAIK the only custom races that don't use human/elven heads (since those could use any vanilla human or elven race as armor reference) are the Khajiit derivatives (Lykaios, Vaalsark, the races from YA) and Yautja/Predators with my Tweaks patch.

 

The former use Khajiits as reference so there is no conflict there, and while the latter do use DefaultRace as reference, they were only set up like that to get the handful of biomasks with human meshes to show up on humans. Considering Roland has stated that biomasks are only meant to be worn by Yautja anyway, I could even revert that edit and set them up to use another vanilla race as reference so they don't conflict with Selachii either.

[Kuroyami]

Right...well, nothing much to say that isn't going to be a bit of, well, showing off. Though that is usually what I'm...oh, well. 

 

Anyway, so...I mentioned I was looking into a new PC? Well, not only do I have it, it can manage this.

 

Might still have something not set up correctly(like maybe needing those ENB files for Realistic Water Two, as the below might suggest), but that sight did surprise me when I saw it. 

 

Also, better shots of that armor(UUNP conversion seems a bit, off, though). It's this one - Akali Armour and Hairdo

 

Also took some new shots for the blog. 

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

Right...well, nothing much to say that isn't going to be a bit of, well, showing off. Though that is usually what I'm...oh, well. 

Hey, I'm fine with that. I like seeing what other people are up to with the sharks, be it you or anyone else .

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

Anyway, so...I mentioned I was looking into a new PC? Well, not only do I have it, it can manage this.

I certainly see the difference. Your older pics are good but the graphic limitations were pretty noticeable on them; good to see that's improved.

 

If you want to give it a shot, I could use some images for the mod page once the update (and the new heads/assets) are done. I'll take some new ones myself, but I wouldn't mind having more to show and choose from.

 

Speaking of which, I'll probably also try to change up the theme a bit; I think I went a bit overboard with the "shark boobs" thing in the current images, lol. Not that i don't mean to show any nudity, but it would be better to take more "action/cool" shots first and then add more lewd ones. My pics for the Lugaris are a step in that direction, I think.

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

Also took some new shots for the blog. 

Will make sure to check them out once you've added them.