? The Selachii - Shark Race

[Blaze69]

10 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Mostly just use the fairly obvious tags shark and breastfeeding. Though this one...pig. Others for those tags are mostly tame, but...

Lol, that "rhino" would definitely pass as a human or at least a humanoid (i.e. elf, orc) if you don't look at the head. Looks like a BoJack Horseman character.

10 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Also, if Selachii Mage clothes are ever a thing for this mod...firetally.

As far as I'm concerned, yeah, I'll be happy to include some custom Selachii gear including mage clothes/robes like those.

 

The problem is either finding something that can fit and whose permissions allow for it to be used here (even if it's with texture or mesh edits or something like that) or actually creating it from scratch (which I'm afraid won't happen anytime soon, though).

[Blaze69]

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

yea...the problem is i lost the the normals when i made that pose, and later on the nodes get striped out as well, but i've probably over complicated the process.

It doesn't actually matter because since it uses object space normals it doesn't need any normals in the nif itself. In fact as I said before I had to remove the normals in NifSkope for the textures to show up right, so you didn't really need to touch them at all.

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

well i was bound to forget something, i had to do a lot of shit to make that mesh

Doesn't matter, as I got it to work and the porting process from your nif to the one that works is relatively short and easy. As long as I can get a nif with the proper meshes, I should be able to get it ingame.

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

which reference pic? there are pictures all over the place.

The ones linked here (first spoiler after "Loading Screen Tips"). Also includes some info on each load screen idea so it may come in handy when actually setting them up.

 

EDIT: Kuroyami also listed it all in the next post.

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

you can blame SOS for that one, it has such a stupidly small default size, in fact that IS a scaled up dick (scale was set to 150%)

Don't need to swear that, lol. With the Hoodie sheath, I have to scale it 1.25 on the GenitalsBase bone and 1.35 on the Genitals01 one so that SL anims at least align with it and don't make it look tiny.

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

now would be a good time to tell me what accessories/options you may want (hair, armor, earrings, toys, extra actors & sex, dick styles, digitigrade)

That would probably be better done by Kuroyami, since he's the one designing the load screens themselves. But I'll see if I have any thoughts or suggestions on that for the other screens too.

 

For this specific one, though... I think it's mostly fine with the current meses, no need for any clothes or accesories. Just the previous comments about it and maybe using the schlong mesh with the foreskin included (from the race files) so it matches the screen text, but that's it.

16 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

well....technically it's not a character mesh anymore, but ok.

My point was that it still uses the same textures and normals, so it needs the same settings as standard character meshes.

[Kuroyami]

12 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

now would be a good time to tell me what accessories/options you may want (hair, armor, earrings, toys, extra actors & sex, dick styles, digitigrade)

At this point there isn't too much, but...

 

Spoiler

General

 

Race(Current possible uses: ...a lot) - scarlet-frost, furfit, thewyvernsweaver

-Main consideration is the poses, including a sword if possible, not so much the clothing. Could be nude, or use something like the Blades Armor.  

 

Sexual

Pregnant(Current possible uses: 4) - urw(possibly using something like ice or rocks rather than pillows), pregoo, flynx-flink

-The intent here is that, the same discomforts of pregnancy in other races, are severely reduced or non-existent in Selachii, though certain discomforts and such are still possible, mostly they see little behavioral changes, such as in disposition, during this time. It is also true that, Selachii are in little need of much help during pregnancy, to the point where it is not mandatory that a female Selachii has the assistance of a healer or as some could be called, a Midwife, and some Selachii have even had their children in isolated places, while they were completely alone.

 

Foreskin/Uncut/Uncircumcised(Current possible uses: 2) - sinfuldreams15

-Technical Note: Pose preferable, as to not require much rotation or zooming in or out. 

 

Sheath(Current possible uses: 1) - truegrave9, nawka, iggi

-Technical Note: Pose preferable, as to not require much rotation or zooming in or out. Also, an erection is not explicitly required.

 

Do note that for the last two, the gender isn't too important either. 

[Blaze69]

8 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Do note that for the last two, the gender isn't too important either. 

Actually, the female schlong meshes are weird with their placement, so they may have errors during import and/or require some repositioning before they are in the place they are supposed to.

 

Not saying it's a deal-breaker, but sticking to males on those screens may make things a bit easier. Won't know for sure until it gets to actually importing the meshes and working on them, though.

[NightroModzz]

Based on our current scietific knowledge, humans eveolved from worms>fish>mamal-like reptiles> rodant> and monkey men. 

 

In comparison, I doubt selachii being mamals is an issue, plus some sharks are warm blooded. Megalodon was as well. Sharks are said to heven't changed much for millions of years. Selachii can be the acception that has.

[Blaze69]

35 minutes ago, NightroModzz said:

Based on our current scietific knowledge, humans eveolved from worms>fish>mamal-like reptiles> rodant> and monkey men. 

I was mostly talking about breasts. As in, AFAIK they evolved from sweat and/or sebaceous glands as a way to secrete milk (or what ended up being milk) to feed the young offspring; and they are also unique to mammals.

 

So if we take the fact that Selachii have breasts (and not only breast-like tissue, actual breasts with nipples), and leaving the "lore" aside and looking at this in a serious way (lol, as serious as this can be), that means they have to be mammals, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to have such a structure. Apart from "because bewbz", of course .

35 minutes ago, NightroModzz said:

In comparison, I doubt selachii being mamals is an issue, plus some sharks are warm blooded. Megalodon was as well.

Wasn't the Meg warm-blooded mainly because of the enormous amount of heat produced by its (large and abundant) muscles and not by an actual complex thermoregulation mechanism like mammals and birds have?

 

Then again I only barely recall that fact, and it may have come from a fiction book about a killer Megalodon (can't remember for sure), so I wouldn't trust its veracity, lol. Anything that uses sharks as the "bad guys" usually doesn't bother being scientifically and biologically acurate with the facts about sharks they list.

35 minutes ago, NightroModzz said:

Sharks are said to heven't changed much for millions of years. Selachii can be the acception that has.

Sure.

 

Then again, the currently-agreed-on lore for the race is that some relatively powerful spirit/Ehlnofey that survived the creation of Mundus without dying/becoming comatose (read up on the creation myths over at /r/teslore if you want to see what that is about) took some of what eventually became sharks and started playing around with them and trying to achieve something close to (but not quite like) the other sentient humanoid races until they were turned into what they are right know. Minus some posterior cross-breeding with Akaviri humans that gave them their more human traits, that is.

 

So I wouldn't really look that much into "would it be possible for them as sharks to evolve into that and end up being mammals" since as I said the only sentient race in ES that could actually be considered to have evolved is Argonians and even then that's not quite the thing, lol.

[NightroModzz]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

I was mostly talking about breasts. As in, AFAIK they evolved from sweat and/or sebaceous glands as a way to secrete milk (or what ended up being milk) to feed the young offspring; and they are also unique to mammals.

 

So if we take the fact that Selachii have breasts (and not only breast-like tissue, actual breasts with nipples), and leaving the "lore" aside and looking at this in a serious way (lol, as serious as this can be), that means they have to be mammals, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to have such a structure. Apart from "because bewbz", of course 

Of course I knew lol. Breasts require you to be a mammal, as you mentioned.

 

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

Wasn't the Meg warm-blooded mainly because of the enormous amount of heat produced by its (large and abundant) muscles and not by an actual complex thermoregulation mechanism like mammals and birds have?

 

Then again I only barely recall that fact, and it may have come from a fiction book about a killer Megalodon (can't remember for sure), so I wouldn't trust its veracity, lol. Anything that uses sharks as the "bad guys" usually doesn't bother being scientifically and biologically acurate with the facts about sharks they list.

The Great Whale being their main food source adapted to cold waters, thus Megalodon needed to follow suit. Not always being warm blooded, becoming somewhat warm blooded was a much needed adaptation. This probably made Megalodon one of the first warm blooded sharks. Being warm blooded explains it's veracious appetite to body mass compared to it's cold blooded counterparts. Just being big and having a lot of muscle does not classify something as warm blooded. well, it depends of the type of muscles it has.

 

There are now a handful of warm blooded sharks, the Great White being one of the closest relatives.

[MadMansGun]

loadscreenv2.nif

[MadMansGun]

loadscreenpreg1.nif

loadscreenpreg2.nif

loadscreenpreg2A.nif

[Kuroyami]

6 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

loadscreenv2.nif

Just checked it in Nifskope, and I'd say that looks damn good. Though I would suggest not keeping the bed part of the mesh, and maybe adding the lioncloth/fundoshi mesh, but having it either pulled aside or down.

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

loadscreenpreg1.nif

loadscreenpreg2.nif

loadscreenpreg2A.nif

Those all look very good, but I'd say use the first one, mostly since the position of her hands helps with the focus, and it is in line with some of the other vanilla race loadscreen meshes. Though the second one could be used too. But like above, I'd say to not use the 2a variant. 

 

Regardless of that though, thank you for doing these. 

[Blaze69]

7 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

loadscreenv2.nif

2 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

loadscreenpreg1.nif

loadscreenpreg2.nif

loadscreenpreg2A.nif

Okay, these look great. I'll try and get them ingame as soon as possible. Thank you very much for this! 

27 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Those all look very good, but I'd say use the first one, mostly since the position of her hands helps with the focus, and it is in line with some of the other vanilla race loadscreen meshes. Though the second one could be used too. But like above, I'd say to not use the 2a variant. 

I may keep the bed for the first one, but even if I don't, it should be easy to get rid of it and simply lower the rest of the meshes so it works fine without it. As for the pregnant ones, since there is more than one pregnancy-related load screen I may use both the first and the 1 and 2 variants at the same time.

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, Kuroyami said:

and maybe adding the lioncloth/fundoshi mesh, but having it either pulled aside or down.

that would be a hell of a lot more work to do.

 

35 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I may keep the bed for the first one, but even if I don't, it should be easy to get rid of it and simply lower the rest of the meshes so it works fine without it.

the other option would be to replace the bed with a sleeping bag, but i don't have that mesh on hand right now.

[Blaze69]

6 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

 

the other option would be to replace the bed with a sleeping bag, but i don't have that mesh on hand right now.

That's actually a very good idea. Gives something to lay on so the character is not floating, but isn't nearly as big as the bed so it doesn't clutter the scene. I'm in the process of getting the meshes ingame right now so I haven't seen how the bed one looks there, but if it doesn't make it we could try the sleeping bag.

[Blaze69]

4 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

[...]

This is how they look ingame:

Spoiler

(Ignore the text about sheaths in the male one and herms in the first female one, I simply added more load screens and used those meshes as a placeholder there until we have the proper ones for them).

 

I'm open to suggestions about placement/angle, those values have to be set in the load screen data and I basically eyeballed it so I guess I could improve it if it doesn't look right.

 

Now, in other news about gear/accesories for load screens in which the characters are not naked (and maybe as ingame items too), I've been searching for some kind of Blades/Akaviri-themed gear that is not the vanilla Blades set and also looks like it would fit Selachii armor designs (we discussed that at some point back in the thread):

• For males, the only things that come to mind is the Blades set from the SOS Revealing Armors (but it's still just a revealing version of the vanilla set and permissions may make it a bit difficult) or maybe some combination of RefurbMadness' SOS gear (retextured to look different from vanilla if possible).
• For females, there's the Female Blades Light Armor (which IMO would fit the idea just fine but may have problems with permissions as well since the author doesn't seem to have been active for a while) or the pieces from the Blades Bikini Armor by Nisetanaka (which should be fine as far as permissions are concerned and fits the Akaviri theme but is still, well, a bikini armor)

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions on possible gear for that and/or thoughts on the ones I mentioned, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

Oh, and last, but not least: turns out the conditions on load screens don't work like standard ones do, because as soon as any check comes positive, the load screen shows up without needing to check for the other (so basically there's no "AND" operator). I may be wrong about this and/or it may be due to the way I set up the condition data, but if I add a check to see if the player is a Selachii (to increase the chances of the load screens) it means they will always show up as long as the player is a Selachii, so it won't work the way we wanted it to.

 

I'll probably just delete the conditions and leave them to show up as random as selected by the game just like any other non-location-specific vanilla load screen. Considering the amount of load screens I added, probability says you should get a Selachii-related one from time to time unless the RNG doesn't want it to happen for some reason, lol.

[MadMansGun]

39 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

That's actually a very good idea. Gives something to lay on so the character is not floating, but isn't nearly as big as the bed so it doesn't clutter the scene. I'm in the process of getting the meshes ingame right now so I haven't seen how the bed one looks there, but if it doesn't make it we could try the sleeping bag.

it looks like the hay pile version works a bit better than the bag with this one

loadscreenpreg2B.nif

[Blaze69]

9 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

it looks like the hay pile version works a bit better than the bag with this one

loadscreenpreg2B.nif

Neat, I'll add it to the ingame mesh and see how it turns out.

[MadMansGun]

20 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I'm open to suggestions about placement/angle, those values have to be set in the load screen data and I basically eyeballed it so I guess I could improve it if it doesn't look right.

what is the "default" anyways? i have no clue where i should be placing the actors because i don't know where the "camera" is, i was just assuming it was somewhere to the front right.

 

32 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions on possible gear for that and/or thoughts on the ones I mentioned, I'd be happy to hear them.

retextured Blades armor mixed with parts from the Embroidered Garments? the closest thing to a kimono in skyrim is nocturnal's robes.

 

 

[Blaze69]

56 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

what is the "default" anyways? i have no clue where i should be placing the actors because i don't know where the "camera" is, i was just assuming it was somewhere to the front right.

Seems like the camera placement base is the same for all of them, but taking the Preg1 one as a reference (is the easiest one to describe), the camera position at the 0,0,0 setting looks at her straight from the back and at roughly the same height as the knees.

 

In the load screen data I added a Z rotation of 120 so it looks at her between the front and her right side and also a transform of -100 in the Z axis so the zoom focuses on her torso instead of her knees (you can check out my screenshot above to see the end result).

 

Still, I think your current placement is fine and figuring out how to properly focus the load screen is not that hard (specially considering I have some reference values/meshes already), so there's no real need to change it.

56 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

retextured Blades armor mixed with parts from the Embroidered Garments? the closest thing to a kimono in skyrim is nocturnal's robes.

I guess I could look into that. Since it doesn't necesarily have to be armor, there are some kimonos around that could be an option too; and even if we still want to have one with armor, the kimono would come in handy for the texts about Selachii clothing and stuff, so there's that.

 

Right now, for females I'm checking out the Brand New Glass Armor and Brand New Light Stalhrim Armor by justice123. Permissions are open (just need to give credit) and while they aren't very Akaviri, they kinda fit the Selachii as they are form-fitting and don't look like they would hinder movement much if at all (plus the details on the Glass one could even look like stylized fins). Maybe if I remove the oversized thigh "pauldrons" and with a different texture, they could fit. Plus, they have CBBE and UUNP conversions already so if I wanted to also add them as ingame items, that work would be done already.

 

Any thoughts?

[Blaze69]

Following up on the topic of custom gear for the race, and going back to the Blades set, I've been tinkering with the vanilla meshes and turns out this is how it looks after you remove the extra pieces like pauldrons, skirts and belts:

Spoiler

(I'm using the hi-poly female meshes from TCf - Vanilla Skyrim Bodyslided so I don't know if the vanilla one has the gap as well or it's exclusive to that one).

 

It looks surprisingly good as it is, and the upper torso part fits with my idea of the kind of armor Selachii would wear, i.e. Akaviri themed but lightweight and as little restricting as possible. I'm thinking the armor plating could easily be split for use over other kind of layer under it, which lead me to this though: taking Akaviri armor designs and plating and layering them over a base form-fitting and waterproof leather bodysuit sounds exactly like what Selachii would do to design their armor.

 

The only problems I see with that is that there is no armor or plating at all below the waist, so it would be the equivalent of a modern kevlar/bulletproof vest over normal clothes. If there were some kind of extra pieces to be added there so it doesn't feel exposed when compared to the upperbody, I'd make for a great custom armor set.

 

I've been looking around a bit and I've seen the UNP Spice Gear version of the Blades set includes some short pants as part of it that could fit with the idea and provide more protection; same would go for the armored "leggings". There's also the Blades Bikini and its thigh pieces and/or leg armor as well (though the "groin" department is a no-go as it's all bikini thongs). There may be something else out there but I haven't seen it yet.

 

I'm thinking there could be a "light" variant with only the upperbody armor plating and whatever is on the legs over pretty much the naked body and a "medium" or "advanced" one with those over said layer of leather (either the original Blades under-armor suit or something like the Dark Brotherhood set).

 

It's only a rough concept and I haven't ironed out the specifics yet, plus the Spice Gear stuff requires permission to be used, so I thought I should ask for opinions first before trying to work on it. So, how does it sound?

[MadMansGun]

6 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

so I don't know if the vanilla one has the gap as well or it's exclusive to that one

it has the gap as well, maybe find a belt or something to go over it.

 

16 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I'm thinking there could be a "light" variant with only the upperbody armor plating and whatever is on the legs over pretty much the naked body and a "medium" or "advanced" one with those over said layer of leather (either the original Blades under-armor suit or something like the Dark Brotherhood set).

that could work, but your probably better at editing armor then i am.

[Blaze69]

18 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

that could work, but your probably better at editing armor then i am.

This is a quick and dirty concept of what could be done:

Spoiler

 

I did it in a rush so if I decide to go for it I'll have to rebuild it, but should give a rough idea of what it would look like in the end. The male version would be pretty much the same, just taking the torso armor from the male Blades set (pants, armlets and thigh pieces would have to be ported from females to males, though).

 

The DB bodysuit would probably need a proper retexture so it matches the rest of the armor, but the armor pieces themselves can point to either the vanilla texture path (in which case they will benefit from any texture replacers like aMidianBorn's) or to a custom texture included in the mod, so there's that.

[MadMansGun]

35 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

This is a quick and dirty concept of what could be done:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

it looks good so far.

 

i did a herm version of this load screen in case you want it.

loadscreenpreg2herm.nif

[Blaze69]

4 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

it looks good so far.

I think I'll contact Tiwa and see if it's fine for me to use the Spice Gear meshes. If it is, I'll start working on the proper mesh and see where it goes. If not, I guess I'll continue looking for fitting meshes

4 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

i did a herm version of this load screen in case you want it.

loadscreenpreg2herm.nif

There's actually a specific load screen text about Selachii being born as herms (it's actually in one of the pics in my previous post), so it comes in handy for that.

 

Did you have any trouble when importing the female schlong meshes, though? From my experience, the position it's imported in doesn't actually match the final position ingame (probably due to the SOSFemale.hkx changing the placement via idle animations), so whenever I've tried to work on textures in Mudbox or stuff like that I had to basically eyeball which was the ingame position and manually move it there.

[MadMansGun]

29 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Did you have any trouble when importing the female schlong meshes, though? From my experience, the position it's imported in doesn't actually match the final position ingame (probably due to the SOSFemale.hkx changing the placement via idle animations), so whenever I've tried to work on textures in Mudbox or stuff like that I had to basically eyeball which was the ingame position and manually move it there.

it imported fine (i think), the only problem i had was finding the right textures for it.

[Kuroyami]

6 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

This is a quick and dirty concept of what could be done:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I did it in a rush so if I decide to go for it I'll have to rebuild it, but should give a rough idea of what it would look like in the end. The male version would be pretty much the same, just taking the torso armor from the male Blades set (pants, armlets and thigh pieces would have to be ported from females to males, though).

Might be a rush job, but that does look very good. It would be interesting if it was perhaps slightly modular, in a similar vein to Nise's Blades Bikini Armor, but overall retaining a sense that it is meant to protect, even though it is used mostly by a race that can take a fair amount of damage naked. Not sure if that would require way too much reworking though, especially considering UUNP support. 

 

I would suggest keeping the pauldrons though, maybe just to make the armlet pieces look less like they are floating, or glued on. 

6 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

The DB bodysuit would probably need a proper retexture so it matches the rest of the armor, but the armor pieces themselves can point to either the vanilla texture path (in which case they will benefit from any texture replacers like aMidianBorn's) or to a custom texture included in the mod, so there's that.

Hmm...there is this, though it seems there is just one quirk about it which means it might not be an option, Bodysuits for CBBE TBBP Unified UNP and Bodyslide. There could be a similar, more open option, I'm not sure.