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SSE Criticism Thread

DoctaSax

By DoctaSax,
in Skyrim: Special Edition

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Gothfather

Gothfather

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1) Money grab - Well it was free for the players that would benefit from the upgrade the least hardly a gesture that should be brushed off. So many companies wouldn't have made such a gesture at all. The benefits are of substance and not merely cosmetic. Console users got value from this upgrade they got access to mods and I challenge anyone to honestly say that is an insignificant benefit. Do they have complete access to all the mods PC users get? No but how is that a problem to PC users how are we hurt by this? How are console users hurt by giving them access to something they never had before? Well "PC gamers would b!tch if they made us pay for it..," how the F@ck is that a strike against Bethesda? OMFG they didn't make us pay for it they told us right at the reveal that PC gamers would get it free if we owned the game and all the DLCs. So why are they money grabbing for something they DIDN'T do?

 

 

it is free for players that have legendary edition to get them to switch and convert their mods to sse to make console players re buy a 5 years old game

 

 

2) SSE is lazy? Really lazy? How is putting most of the changes to the game under the hood so to speak instead of simply upgrading the textures, lazy? Lazy remasters are like marvel universe games by activation. The controls didn't work on PC for keyboard or controllers.  When you spend the budget on a remaster in improving the engine and physics (water flowing in multiple directions around objects for example) jumping from 32 bit to 64 bit which isn't as simple as just recompiling the 32 bit engine into a 64 bit engine. You are getting real improvements not just a prettier paint job. How is this lazy? This is a remaster remember not a completely new game, it was only ever pitched to people as a remaster. They never promised or implied new content.

 

 

those changes you are talking about it's just fallout 4 engine update add to skyrim

did they put fallout 4 character creation in skyrim?

does fallout 4 grass get lightning at night? or have moving trees? or... (it's time to replace that old engine, updates can't do miracles)

 

 

3) They released the creation kit early and use that to have mods available for console players at launch. How is that a bloody bad thing? It gives creators a chance to see the new creation kit and learn its idiosyncrasies and it give players mods. This is known as mutually beneficial, just because one side also gets a benefit doesn't negate the benefit we got. And again how does this action HURT PC gamers? How are we injured by this action? How does this lessen our gaming experience? The answer is it doesn't .

 

 

they are so much help they didn't bother giving to modders the nif convertor to convert skyrim nif to fallout nif (they haven't done that manually... too many nifs)

they didn't bother either making a tool to convert mods to sse (there will probably be a convert plugin for tesedit next year)

 

 

 

4)"But when a company decides they are going to ignore the pc players(their most important demographic) in favor of the console players, and make the game shittier because they are sacrificing things to try and sell more copies..." WTF? The game is BETTER for PC users. How is SSE sh!tter for Pc gamers? In what instance is SSE worse than Oldrim? This is your direct quote. You said we are ignored and they made the game sh!ttier, give me an example how SSE is sh!tter for PC players? You can't be so self centred that unless PC users get something only THEY can use it means PC users are ignored and sh!t upon, are you? Are you trying to tell me the benefits to gamers are a zero sum game? Every benefit a console player gets is a benefit a PC player loses or doesn't count as a benefit? Come on.

 

 

you only have 64 bits skyrim because consoles can handle 64 bits now

game would run better if it wasn't optimised for consoles

 

 

5) Using modders to sell their games. Unacceptable. So the alternative is that Bethesda makes their next game unmoddable because god forbid they use the strength of a dying feature in gaming modability as a selling point? This makes no sense. by this logic any feature in their games that strengthens modding can be used as an excuse to accuse Bethesda of using mods and by extension modders to sell their games. This is logically inconsistent, you can't use mods personally to improve your gaming experience and then hate on the company that uses this feature to sell their games. Mods are a FEATURE of the game a feature that isn't an after thought but that is part of the core of the games feature set. It is perfectly acceptable to use this feature as a selling point and use mods to show player just what a better experience the game is. WTF do you think PC gamers who own consoles as well will choose to buy the game on PC? Because of MODS mods sell the game on PC and always have and it was the modders that sold the game. Because if modders didn't make the mods we love we would have no mods. On PC this is acceptable but when Bethesda does the same thing on Consoles it is money grubbing and unacceptable? How do you square that circle? 

 

 

many games release the tools use to do content for it, to make the players buy the extensions that are required by some of that content (of course that's for $$$)

old game are remake, because it's easy $$$ (game is already done you just have to update graphics)

but what did bethesda pick for that? skyrim because making fallout 4 remaster would have been a bad joke (morrowind remaster would have probably make more $$$, but cost much more too)

 

 

 

6) Using modders to fix their games. This is something that is overblown by most mod users. First most mods are not game fixes. They are enhancements and tweaks. Changing how x feature works to make it more in line with your subjective tastes isn't a bug fix. Fixing a missing texture is a bug fix but improving a set of textures to be of a better quality isn't a bug fix. This is not to say that bug don't exist and that modders don't fix them but it isn't as ubiquitous as you imply. Does Bethesda make the game knowing that some things will be changes by players? yes the key is they give people a decent game vanilla and allow people to take this base skeleton and improve on it. If the base games is as bad as some PC users imply this game wouldn't have been a hit on consoles. Bethesda games are console hits so the base game has to have some value to some people. So I don't think you are being fair.

 

some things had to be fixed because the game wasn't ready for release (it's the same with sse no? there's some patchs coming)

 

look for the mod that replace the nifs with broken uv maps, unzip sse bsa, and compare, did they bother putting those fix in sse?

some nif don't load the good textures too

the blockys nose were because wrong compression format for msn

don't remember much skyrim without mods problems since mods take care of most of them (but not all)

 

sse is nothing for now, maybe next year

after the ones that already switch got most problems

after a lot of mods are updated right

after tools are made

etc etc

maybe it will be worth the trouble of updating (if you are still playing skyrim)

 

 

 

I would agree with most of this. SSE hasn't eclipsed oldrim in terms of the modded experience. It hasn't had time to mature nor achieve the mod library. This however isn't the fault of SSE nor Bethesda it simply an issue that will eventually change. What SSE does give is a better foundation to build a "modded experience."  I think it is safe to say the SSE will have a community playing the game given that the oblivion community is still playing and modding that game. Will that include every individual? no. But the game cost us PC users zero to upgrade to so giving us a free option to choose to upgrade or not upgrade isn't a bad thing for gamers. The community on the nexus seems to have embraced the game quite quickly as the mod library is growing quite quickly in less than two weeks it has 2100+ files and 10.77 million downloads on the nexus alone so there is interest.

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Gothfather

Gothfather

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-snip-

 

 

And how the f@ck does that effect anyone on this forum? If you used loverslab to mod skyrim you owned the PC version and you got skyrim SE for FREE. Again how does this hurt any of us?

 

And if you talk about console players alone they got the ability to mod the bloody game which they never could before. For people that WANT to mod a what $40 USD game giving them mod features is a lot cheaper then buying a computer. If they don't want mod capability they don't have to buy the game. How is the existence of the CHOICE a black mark on Bethesda?

 

Yes Bethesda is trying to make money, SO F@CKING WHAT? They are a company the only way they can make games is to make money and be profitable. This is the first remaster I know of in history that allows console player to mod the content of their games not an insignificant added feature.

 

! warning wall of text !

 

I'm someone who will let beth raw-dog me all my life, and will definitely get the next game too. I have also been sucking their dick about 64-bit so I do personally agree that it is a big deal. But I think you are misunderstanding this thread, and possibly even a lot about beth too. This thread is mostly us hating beth for being money-hungry, lazy, arseholes. Despite being 64-bit being extremely useful, it's almost certain they did it not for the modding community, but for console players, so that they could sell a 5 year old game at retail price with the promise of mods to casuals. Now if I were a casual I prolly wouldn't hate beth so much, but the fact is, they gave it to us for free likely because they new how much the modding community would flip a b*tch if they expected us to pay full retail price for just a better engine(since that's the only part we care about) after everything else they have done since oldrim's release(see paid modding for starters). We know from beth's own accounts and from looking inside the engine, that sse first and foremost is aimed at consoles players. Now if the company was about to go bankrupt, this might be acceptable, but this is just the beginning of it. Because now we are getting all kinds of reports from big names in the modding scene talking about how they expected the cre-kit beta to be a fun experience to pay back pillars of the modding community, and instead, it was beth making sure there would be mods at release for the console plebs. They took advantage of the modding community's good will again. I'm not someone who hates console players, or who thinks a company making money is bad. But when a company decides they are going to ignore the pc players(their most important demographic) in favor of the console players, and make the game shittier because they are sacrificing things to try and sell more copies, then they are prioritizing money TOO much, and showing us they, are not likely to change their ways. For the first 5-ish days, I was glad about sse and had hopes about beth thhinking they learned their mistakes from skyrim, eso, and fo4. But that was because beth had a gag-order on the beta-modders. They weren't aloud to talk about the game until after it came out, or at the very least many of them were not told whether or not they could. This resulted in the release being good and the response being bad. Beth expected the modding community to fix their games, now that they are selling mods to consoles in the form of a 5yo game at retail price, they are now expecting the modding community to sell their game for them. Unacceptable.

 

#bethesdasux

 

-snip-

Ignoring facts to push my narrative? Oh, so basically doing the same thing you're doing, right?

 

"All pc users get it free."

Hey speaking of facts; here's a fact you should put into that little mind of yours:

PC users who have "all of the DLC" get it free. Not everyone bought all of the DLC...

 

Also; I don't ignore facts, I ignore bullshit. There's a difference.

 

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Ever since beth announced pc players with all dlcs would get it for free, websites have been having sales on and off. Some of them for as low as $1 dollar for all the dlc. So the only excuse to not have the dlc before the game came out was not knowing you get it for free if you have the dlc.

 

 

 

I am not sure I follow you.

 

how has Bethesda screwed over PC players? We got it free and as you said any moron using the excuse of I don't have the DLC is transferring their own anger at themselves onto Bethesda. They gave us a free upgrade to an engine that eliminates the 4 gb memory limitation that allows for impressive modding. The ability of the engine to handle large numbers of NPCs in a given cell means to more Civil war mods that see combatants just standing because the engine can't control that many bodies. This isn't an insignificant boost. Rivers actually flow in the direction of a river not in a single direction.

 

Yes the remaster was geared to improve console users experience primarily but not exclusively, but pray tell me how does that hurt you? How is that an insult? how is improving one groups experience of skyrim lessening your experience? PC users got huge benefits that the ignorant are ignoring. The jump to 64 bit is the most important change to SSE and we pc users can make the most out of this benefit. Allowing console users access to mods (at least xbone users PS4 users get an inferior experience but that is on Sony not Bethesda. Also SSE is below full retain price, SSE is $50 CND which is $30 less than what I pay for a AAA title today. So not sure why people think this is a rip off. Oldrim sells for $44 CND for the game and all the DLCs, so again hardly this huge money grap. The facts don't line up with the critisisms.

 

1) Money grab - Well it was free for the players that would benefit from the upgrade the least hardly a gesture that should be brushed off. So many companies wouldn't have made such a gesture at all. The benefits are of substance and not merely cosmetic. Console users got value from this upgrade they got access to mods and I challenge anyone to honestly say that is an insignificant benefit. Do they have complete access to all the mods PC users get? No but how is that a problem to PC users how are we hurt by this? How are console users hurt by giving them access to something they never had before? Well "PC gamers would b!tch if they made us pay for it..," how the F@ck is that a strike against Bethesda? OMFG they didn't make us pay for it they told us right at the reveal that PC gamers would get it free if we owned the game and all the DLCs. So why are they money grabbing for something they DIDN'T do?

 

2) SSE is lazy? Really lazy? How is putting most of the changes to the game under the hood so to speak instead of simply upgrading the textures, lazy? Lazy remasters are like marvel universe games by activation. The controls didn't work on PC for keyboard or controllers.  When you spend the budget on a remaster in improving the engine and physics (water flowing in multiple directions around objects for example) jumping from 32 bit to 64 bit which isn't as simple as just recompiling the 32 bit engine into a 64 bit engine. You are getting real improvements not just a prettier paint job. How is this lazy? This is a remaster remember not a completely new game, it was only ever pitched to people as a remaster. They never promised or implied new content.

 

3) They released the creation kit early and use that to have mods available for console players at launch. How is that a bloody bad thing? It gives creators a chance to see the new creation kit and learn its idiosyncrasies and it give players mods. This is known as mutually beneficial, just because one side also gets a benefit doesn't negate the benefit we got. And again how does this action HURT PC gamers? How are we injured by this action? How does this lessen our gaming experience? The answer is it doesn't .

 

4)"But when a company decides they are going to ignore the pc players(their most important demographic) in favor of the console players, and make the game shittier because they are sacrificing things to try and sell more copies..." WTF? The game is BETTER for PC users. How is SSE sh!tter for Pc gamers? In what instance is SSE worse than Oldrim? This is your direct quote. You said we are ignored and they made the game sh!ttier, give me an example how SSE is sh!tter for PC players? You can't be so self centred that unless PC users get something only THEY can use it means PC users are ignored and sh!t upon, are you? Are you trying to tell me the benefits to gamers are a zero sum game? Every benefit a console player gets is a benefit a PC player loses or doesn't count as a benefit? Come on.

 

 

5) Using modders to sell their games. Unacceptable. So the alternative is that Bethesda makes their next game unmoddable because god forbid they use the strength of a dying feature in gaming modability as a selling point? This makes no sense. by this logic any feature in their games that strengthens modding can be used as an excuse to accuse Bethesda of using mods and by extension modders to sell their games. This is logically inconsistent, you can't use mods personally to improve your gaming experience and then hate on the company that uses this feature to sell their games. Mods are a FEATURE of the game a feature that isn't an after thought but that is part of the core of the games feature set. It is perfectly acceptable to use this feature as a selling point and use mods to show player just what a better experience the game is. WTF do you think PC gamers who own consoles as well will choose to buy the game on PC? Because of MODS mods sell the game on PC and always have and it was the modders that sold the game. Because if modders didn't make the mods we love we would have no mods. On PC this is acceptable but when Bethesda does the same thing on Consoles it is money grubbing and unacceptable? How do you square that circle? 

 

6) Using modders to fix their games. This is something that is overblown by most mod users. First most mods are not game fixes. They are enhancements and tweaks. Changing how x feature works to make it more in line with your subjective tastes isn't a bug fix. Fixing a missing texture is a bug fix but improving a set of textures to be of a better quality isn't a bug fix. This is not to say that bug don't exist and that modders don't fix them but it isn't as ubiquitous as you imply. Does Bethesda make the game knowing that some things will be changes by players? yes the key is they give people a decent game vanilla and allow people to take this base skeleton and improve on it. If the base games is as bad as some PC users imply this game wouldn't have been a hit on consoles. Bethesda games are console hits so the base game has to have some value to some people. So I don't think you are being fair.

 

And just to be clear I am boycotting Bethesda games the first month of release (as in I wont buy their games until one month after release) so I am no mindless fanboi but it amazes me that people are QQ over BS and ignoring the fact that Bethesda is trying to limit professional reviews on their products and giving "influencers" access to their game early so they can get day more uniformed day one purchases. But I haven't seen a single 'real' issue being raised why SSE is sh!te. It is just game BS.

 

 

You should crawl Bethesda in the ass.

Weg-zum-Arbeitsplatz.jpg

 

I need 3-4 years to get my Oldrim perfect!

And one is sure SSE I never get perfect! Because quite simply different mods, will not be available for SSE, As for example SG hair pack 268, 350.

And moreover, I have no desire again 3-4 years only to screw around and again the same game, I'm tired!

 

 

Oh for F@ck sake. This is what makes gamers the worst consumers in the world. They have a hissy fit because when given a free choice to play SSE or Oldrim, allowing players to decide for themselves if they see value in making the change to SSE or if they don't remaining with oldrim they feel Bethesda didn't suck their c@cks enough.

 

You have a perfect skyrim your own bloody words. so tell me how the f@ck does the existence of SSE ruin your perfect skyrim? Why is giving player a choice a problem? Why does giving players a FREE choice make Bethesda the bad guys here? What you feel cheated because you already have the perfect game and Bethesda didn't make it "more" perfect?

 

You are not hurt by choosing not to play SSE and you are not hurt by SSE existing and you are not hurt by just playing a 'perfect oldrim.' So if the game you modded is perfect, again YOUR WORDS, why are you bitching about a free game you wont use? How are you harmed?

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winny257

winny257

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Posted

 

---snip---

So don't fucking play SSE. The existence of SSE doesn't preclude you using oldrim you moron. How does the f@cking existence of SSE ruin Oldrim?

 

What you are having a hissy fit about SSE because Bethesda gave you a FREE choice to use either Oldrim or SSE and because you chose Oldrim that makes Bethesda the bad guy? how the f@ck does that work?

 

 

I'm tired, over and over again about that to write!

SSE is not free for all PC users, If only one DLC is missing you have to pay!

With the announcement of SSE (May or June 2016) do not know so exactly, it was also no longer possible that missing DLC still to buy.

this message received I from Steam, I can buy the DLC, but I would have to pay anyway, on publication of SSE.

For me Bethesda is a money-greedy club, they should at money suffocate!

You can believe me, how much I bethesda HATE!!!  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

 

Edit: *** you moron *** this was inappropriate!  ;)

Edit2: if you convert me 2000 GB of mods for SSE, then only then SSE is acceptable to me.  :P

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yatol

yatol

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I would agree with most of this. SSE hasn't eclipsed oldrim in terms of the modded experience. It hasn't had time to mature nor achieve the mod library. This however isn't the fault of SSE nor Bethesda it simply an issue that will eventually change. What SSE does give is a better foundation to build a "modded experience."  I think it is safe to say the SSE will have a community playing the game given that the oblivion community is still playing and modding that game. Will that include every individual? no. But the game cost us PC users zero to upgrade to so giving us a free option to choose to upgrade or not upgrade isn't a bad thing for gamers. The community on the nexus seems to have embraced the game quite quickly as the mod library is growing quite quickly in less than two weeks it has 2100+ files and 10.77 million downloads on the nexus alone so there is interest.

 

 

you can upload anything on nexus (oh wait, no v4 and no sims and no doa and no... or you get banned^^)

16111001431744044.jpg

there's 50 000 mods for skyrim, won't take much risk by saying more than half of them is stupid garbage

and of course, it will be the same with sse

 

number of downloads also mean nothing

 

  1. SkyUI_5_1 magnifier.png 1,708,872 unique downloads 3,546,088 downloads 1,315kb size 7z archive. Supports installation with Nexus Mod Manager.

well... faster to redownload small mods that finding where you put them

if i spam click the download button 30 minutes, that will make a lot of downloads

 

some are doing it, like the dumbass that got ban because they were wasting their time creating accounts to endorse their own mods

 

 

it take time to convert mods (a lot of time since they didn't bother making a tool for that)

looking for them on nexus and re downloading is also time consuming

and if you don't have legendary you have to buy it to get sse for "free"

 

no, it's don't cost nothing to upgrade

and for now, the result is inferior to skyrim, it's up to you to choose if the performance difference is worth it

 

 

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Gothfather

Gothfather

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Posted

 

-snip-

This is meant in response to both your posts. 

 

1)They may have given people with all dlc the game for free, but if you've seen my posts, I point out they did this out of almost certainly desperation and manipulation.

a:(deperation) they needed mods to be available at release for consoles, the only way to really offer this would be to offer pc players a free upgrade and beta access.

b:(manipulation) sse is basically skyrim mods for console being sold as a retail game. if they expected us to pay another $40+ for sse, it is unlikely a lot of modders would have been as willing to upload stuff to beth.net for consoles user. 

 

2)Bethesda is lazy, because a lot of the "remastering" they did already existed in the game by modders or was simply ported from fo4. If they wanted to do a real remaster, I would expect maybe some better textures, instead of just running them through a program to make them bigger, and especially better faces. Also, much of the stuff they added, not only looks worse than mod available for oldrim, but makes it impossible to port stuff from oldrim to see(see enb and how image modifiers/adapters were changed in sse). 

 

3)You are absolutely right, in theory a beta for the cre--kit is great. The problem is how beth handled it. Go read testimonials from some of the people who participated in the beta, and how they didn't enjoy it. One modder decided he would not upload any of his content to beth.net because of how much the beth personnel neglected him. 

 

4)It is a direct quote, so I will correct myself, it is worse for pc modders. If they only cared about keeping the pc modding community happy, then they wouldn't have made sse in the first place, they would have made a simple skyrim64. Literally the only thing sse has that is really useful to the modding community is 64bit, all their bullshit visual effects, were not only already available, but more stable and generally better looking. Instead they decided to essentially load it up with all this bloatware, so that lots of mods that edit cells have to be fixed because of clipping, all meshes, animations, and esp have to be recompiled, all mods that edit cells where water is have to be edited a bunch to keep the new water(this one is the most excusable of the bunch), and because of their bullshit visual effects, many features of enb would not be viable, and that's if borrus even decides to make enb for sse. So yeah, I am getting a 64bit skyrim, but I am also getting a bunch of shitty lighting effects that can't be easily turned off or edited, and a lighting engine that stops me from being able to use programs and features that made the original skyrim looks 10 times better than sse by default. We might have come out with more positive than negative with sse, but if they really cared about the pc players and not pandering to console players, then they would have put "maintaining as much compatibility with mods as possible" very high on the list of priorities, rather than "how can we take a 5yo game and update it to sell to consoles players". And because I'm pretty sure enb would be incompatible with consoles, which is the main insentive behind deciding to try to make the game look better.

 

5) Of coarse mods sell the game. The problem is that beth said they would not sacrifice pc quality just to make the game more viable to consoles. And they are taking advantage of the goodwill of modders to sell their game. Because now content creaters are suggested to make their mods compatible with consoles which can be a lot of extra work, and if they don't make their stuff for console, then they're the asshole, because beth has set a standard that you should make stuff for consoles too. When making stuff compatible with consoles starting getting in the way of pc modding, then it becomes a problem. This same problem is happening with fo4. Many of ellianora's house mods cannot be played in their default state on consoles, because you need good hardware to run them. So now you have people stealing her stuff, uploading it to beth.net, and then getting mad at her when she takes all her stuff down, because she doesn't want people stealing her stuff. 

 

6) Modifications are one thing, fixes are another. Have you ever tried running skyrim with max plugin count(250-ish) and at least 10 mods that had constant running scripts like "on updates" and cloak spells without the unofficial patches? I can guarantee you, it is harder by an order of magnitude. After I started using the unofficial patches the game became so much more stable and creates universal application of the rules beth set up in the vanilla game. Without the consistency provided by the patches, it is so much harder to keep track of stuff. I will never go back to not using them. There are also small mods that fix stuff like "crash fixes" and that one mod that fixes the dawnguard quest "impatience of a saint".

 

The problem with beth is that they are trying to interact with the community too much, and are causing problems as a result. They wanna give modders an incentive(I'm being naive here, because I have no proof beth was being greedy), and instead fracture the modding community with paid modding. (fo4)They try to get the console and pc players to get along(being naive again here) and instead get us hating each other more by allowing piracy to be rampant on beth.net. They try to get us friendly again, and instead give the pc modders not enough guidance in the beta, it results in more animosity towards console players. If they want money, it very simple, keep pumping out new games, and talk to the modding community before you make any major gameplay decisions(like getting rid of half the skill trees), and you will make tons of money. The problem was that beth wasn't happy with how much they were making, so they decided to change major aspects or gameplay or try to police the modding community in an attempt at making even more money, and in the end, they piss a bunch of people off, but still make tons of money. We are pissed because they keep doing bad thing to this community and don't have to be held accountable for their actions. Now this last paragraph was mostly full of emotion and blind optimism, but here is a very big problem fact. If beth keeps to bad shit to the modding community, and still making tons of money, they will end up like ea and we will end likes sims modders. Where they do shit, and we have no choice but to accept it because we are their little bitch.

 

 

1) Saying it is desperation and manipulation doesn't make it so. Nothing about this release indicates any desperation nor manipulation. PC modders are not being manipulated. They were invited, give free CHOICE to participate with the beta and to bring mods to consoles. These was no enticement by Bethesda to lure modders into this, they were already assured of a FREE game just for owning oldrim. Where is the manipulation? Specifically what manipulation. And to be clear getting a benefit from people participating in something doesn't equate to manipulation. There is no evidence of your theory that they "needed" mods for release ergo this made them desperate. They announced mods for the FO4 and it was what 1/2 a year after FO4 was released before console users got access to FO4 mods. That didn't hurt FO4 announcing at E3 2015 xbox would get mods for fo4, releasing in fo4 nov 2015 and not getting mods for fo4 until May 2016 (or was it june?). Where is there any evidence that Bethesda needed to or was deserpate to have mods release for SSE? I see no evidence for this, was it a positive for Bethesda to have them at launch? Sure but again just because something is beneficial to a party in volve doesn't mean they are desperate or manipulative for said result.

 

2) Better textures is the least important change. Again how is it lazy for them to make the changes to the GUTS of the game where the changes have the most effect and benefit? Being lazy is just updating the textures. A lot of what modders already did Bethesda IGNORED like the textures, they improved things that modders couldn't do like make the game 64bit and give physics to water. The fact that they did THAT shows they were not lazy. If you have done any reading on the engine you know SSE isn't the FO4 engine. That is false. It is the skyrim engine improved. It site between oldrim and fo4. Which is the RIGHT thing to do, it allows them to maintain maximum compatibility with skyrim and still get the advantages of 64 bit. It would take years to make skyrim on the FO4 engine and doing so would invalidate every skyrim mod. Currently many mods can be directly ported if they use loose files vs .bsa. They are not trying to remake skyrim they are simply trying to make it a 64 bit game so it 100% looks better than any console version of oldrim and creates the foundation for SSE to be better modded than  oldrim could ever dream of being.

 

3) So what the beta didn't go as smoothly as it could that is why it is a beta. I really couldn't give a rats a$$ about gamers QQing that a company didn't treat them like a unique special snowflake their mothers told them they are. Its a beta not a romance. This person got a chance to test the product and they didn't like it. So? they got the fraking game fore free so not liking it means they are out exactly ZERO and they can just stick with oldrim. How is Bethesda the bad guy for the choice?

 

4) This is why you are on the wrong side. "If they only cared about keeping the pc modding community happy..." Why the f@ck should they only care about f@cking PC modders? Again you make it like if you do anything the benefits console gamers you are sh!tting on pc gamers and that is bullsh!t. And this is coming from a PC master race with a i7 6800k 32 gigs ram sporting a gtx 1080, I really don't care about consoles at all, the last one I owned was an Atari 2600. But I lose nothing at all by console gamers getting mods, by Bethesda making them a remaster that they give me for FREE but still gives me tangible benefits. It doesn't matter one iota that console gamers gain more benefit from this remaster. and it is your "head in your a$s attitude" that they should only care about you that cause you to lose this discussion. Any remaster of a game that is on PC and console will ALWAYS benefit console users more than PC users because of the nature of consoles. They are generational and PC are not. So the console peasants can't upgrade their crappy machines so they are stuck with what they have so any "jump" in quality of a remaster from one console generation to the next is going to be hugely advantages to console gamers. Because PC gamers have been getting better performance out of skyrim with each hardware upgrade they have done since it was released. "and that's if borrus even decides to make enb for sse" Proof you are just talking out of your a$$ and not aware of what is actually an issue with all the terrible things you say is in the "bloatware."

"3 november 2016

Published ENBSeries 0.309 BETA for TES Skyrim SE. Made all post processing shaders similar or equal to mod for Fallout 4. Time of the day, interior and exterior separation, weather system are not available yet. This version is mostly to remove original game post processing by replacing it with custom from enbeffect.fx shader (untweaked, most code from old Skyrim mod) or ReShade/SweetFX."

 

[source] http://enbdev.com/index_en.html

 

There were already ENBs available for SSE before you even wrote that tripe. So gamers QQing, again about nothing. The "bloatware" can be removed and we see that days after its release enb work had progress to its first release.

 

5) How has the quality of SSE suffered because console gamers got mods? WTF does any of this have to do with Bethesda? You must be new to the pc mod scene because rampant theft use to be a major problem with PC mods. This is why sites like the nexus have policies in place because it was a problem so bad that they had to have policies in place to protect modder's work. Yes because mods on consoles are new we are seeing the same behaviours we saw on PC 15  years ago happening there. That community doesn't know the "rules" didn't understand what was and wasn't acceptable practise and it is a lot better now then it was 6 months ago and it will be better in 6 months from now then it will be currently. And modders stealing isn't confined to console it happens still on PC. Many a site will steal mods from modders and put them on a site the modder doesn't want or even sell the mod. so Lets not pretend it is a console only problem. And not sure how consoles being less powerful so they can't use the same type of PC mods strengthens your argument that Bethesda has weaken the PC port of the game.

 

 

6) Separate issue. This is about the remaster. I am not defending Bethesda in general. I am defending their actions with the remaster. Yes modders fix bugs that has been going on since morrowind. SSE is no different. Because SSE has this flaw doesn't make it sh!t but oldrim with the same flaw is fine. This practise doesn't make the remaster a money grab. I was pointing out that bug fixes are significantly a tiny portion of the mods made. There are like 700 bug fixes on the nexus out of 50,000 files.  Much of the issues with stability and mods can be traced to the game being in 32 bit.  Yes there are bugs, does Bethesda lean too much on modders to fix them? Likely but that was an issue before SSE and will likely be an issue after. So how does this specifically make Bethesda the bad guy with this remaster? This issue exist regardless  if the SSE was made or not.

 

Your last paragraph contradicts itself and turns into a whine about Bethesda in general vs their failure of SSE. In fact most of peoples QQing has zero to do with SSE on this thread. People can't actually find major issues with SSE so they branch off in to general failures of Bethesda. And I wont defend Bethesda generally as I already said I am boycotting their games for the first month of any games release because I disagree with some of their policies. Yet they have been a good corporate neighbour with regards to SSE specifically. They are not responsible for PC gamers QQing over console gamers. much of that is PC gamrs overacting like little children and forgetting that nothing the console crowd has done is any different then how the PC crowd once behaved. I am not even going to comment on the QQ you have about feature changes, except to say F@CK YOU. Bethesda doesn't have to talk to any f@cking player about any feature changes period. Bethesda has been changing the fundamental features of their games since day one. people who don't know that and act like this is new are posers who pretend to be around since the beginning but who aren't. Every instance of the series after daggerfall has made fundamental changes to the game with no consultation with gamers and each game has sold better than the last within their respected franchises. Hell maybe even daggerfall made fundamental changes too I don't know because that was my first TES game so I don't know how or if it changed from the first.

 

Bloody gamers they get a game for FREE and it still isn't good enough even when it is an improved version of one of the best RPGs of all time. Seriously gamers are such #whineylittlebitches. And they are so blind they can't even see I am no fanboi of Bethesda but because I can separated the good they do from the bad I am an a$$ kisser. more proof gamers are idiots in general.

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Gothfather

Gothfather

Posted
Posted

 

 

I would agree with most of this. SSE hasn't eclipsed oldrim in terms of the modded experience. It hasn't had time to mature nor achieve the mod library. This however isn't the fault of SSE nor Bethesda it simply an issue that will eventually change. What SSE does give is a better foundation to build a "modded experience."  I think it is safe to say the SSE will have a community playing the game given that the oblivion community is still playing and modding that game. Will that include every individual? no. But the game cost us PC users zero to upgrade to so giving us a free option to choose to upgrade or not upgrade isn't a bad thing for gamers. The community on the nexus seems to have embraced the game quite quickly as the mod library is growing quite quickly in less than two weeks it has 2100+ files and 10.77 million downloads on the nexus alone so there is interest.

 

 

you can upload anything on nexus (oh wait, no v4 and no sims and no doa and no... or you get banned^^)

16111001431744044.jpg

there's 50 000 mods for skyrim, won't take much risk by saying more than half of them is stupid garbage

and of course, it will be the same with sse

 

number of downloads also mean nothing

 

  1. SkyUI_5_1 magnifier.png 1,708,872 unique downloads 3,546,088 downloads 1,315kb size 7z archive. Supports installation with Nexus Mod Manager.

well... faster to redownload small mods that finding where you put them

if i spam click the download button 30 minutes, that will make a lot of downloads

 

some are doing it, like the dumbass that got ban because they were wasting their time creating accounts to endorse their own mods

 

 

it take time to convert mods (a lot of time since they didn't bother making a tool for that)

looking for them on nexus and re downloading is also time consuming

and if you don't have legendary you have to buy it to get sse for "free"

 

no, it's don't cost nothing to upgrade

and for now, the result is inferior to skyrim, it's up to you to choose if the performance difference is worth it

 

 

How is anything you posted here relevant to what i said?

 

I didn't say the Nexus was the be all and end all. I never praised the site nor implied it was perfect nor did I imply it was the best place for mods. So why does showing that the nexus is very active with SSE content threaten you so much? I never implied that it was close to the level of oldrim, in fact I agreed that oldrim has the better mod library and gaming experience. That fact doesn't negate that people are enjoying and playing SSE and that people are modding for it. We are already seeing unique mods for it vs just ports. Elianora already has a damn good unique house mod for SSE. Yes she has a lot more for oldrim but I am not claiming SSE has more only that people are modding for it and the community is active. 

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winny257

winny257

Posted
Posted

 

 

-snip-

This is meant in response to both your posts. 

 

1)They may have given people with all dlc the game for free, but if you've seen my posts, I point out they did this out of almost certainly desperation and manipulation.

 

---snip---

 

Bethesda desperate?

They are more than desperate!

Why no new TES 6, because still the old Havok engine ( Today's circumstances substandard ).

I go even further, You can not prove to me, that Bethesda Modder has bought, one is 100% sure, They have stolen mods!

 

Fallout 4: Bethesda has supposedly stolen a mission from a modder!

Working at Bethesda throwners who have served externally to design a quest for the latest Fallout 4-DLC? Fans of a modder seem to believe this, while Bethesda himself speaks of a coincidence.

 

 

http://www.giga.de/spiele/fallout-4/news/fallout-4-bethesda-hat-angeblich-eine-mission-von-einem-modder-geklaut/

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout-4/fallout-4-skyrim-nexus-mods-bethesdanet-stolen

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yatol

yatol

Posted
Posted

 

How is anything you posted here relevant to what i said?

you wrote "The community on the nexus seems to have embraced the game quite quickly as the mod library is growing quite quickly in less than two weeks it has 2100+ files and 10.77 million downloads on the nexus alone so there is interest."

 

 

 

why does showing that the nexus is very active with SSE content threaten you so much?

 

why does posting some screens of what those mods are threaten you so much?

 

who pick their game by checking how many players they have anyway?

why is it a problem i didn't switch to sse? i can wait a few month for skse, enb, patchs... (it's just vanilla skyrim with a few more fps for now, don't care about that)

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ousnius

ousnius

Posted
Posted

why is it a problem i didn't switch to sse? i can wait a few month for skse, enb, patchs... (it's just vanilla skyrim with a few more fps for now, don't care about that)

 

Because you're constantly telling us that you don't want to switch to SSE yet, and nobody cares. Even in the screenshot threads.

You're not a special snowflake because you "still use the good old Skyrim". Not surprising from a LadyBody user, though.

 

SSE has a lot of the same flaws the old Skyrim had - but it's still better and will completely replace the old one over time in the future.

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TamaChan

TamaChan

Posted
Posted

 

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

I spent like an hour refuting some of the stuff you said, but honestly as this point this conversation is wearing on me.

 

For the most part you are probably right, and I am sure in time the bitching will go away, including mine. But it doesn't change the fact that specifically the beta was a problem. If you wanna ignore many other stuff about beth, then fine. But during the beta they treated some of the most respected and important members of this community like garbage. To treat them like they did, is for now really bad. In time most will forgive them, but this thread isn't about forgiveness. It's about bitching about beth and maybe trying to find a way to get the point across that we are very unhappy with the way they have been treating us. So far nothing has worked, but maybe something will. I liked the idea of not releasing mods for console, although honestly I would feel bad for console peasants not getting to play them.

 

Lastly, If you wanna keep talking, mind using less insults? I have nothing against you, and hope you have nothing against me. Many of these insults seem very personal and unnecessary. And perhaps we could also restart the dialogue chain, because these posts between us are getting huge.

Good day.

 

edit:This thread is also enjoyable. Perhaps some of us will continue modding, but right now we are having fun hating on beth and shit-posting.

 

why is it a problem i didn't switch to sse? i can wait a few month for skse, enb, patchs... (it's just vanilla skyrim with a few more fps for now, don't care about that)

 

Because you're constantly telling us that you don't want to switch to SSE yet, and nobody cares. Even in the screenshot threads.

You're not a special snowflake because you "still use the good old Skyrim". Not surprising from a LadyBody user, though.

 

SSE has a lot of the same flaws the old Skyrim had - but it's still better and will completely replace the old one over time in the future.

 

I'm laughing my ass off at this post ous. The way you say "expect from a ladybody user" almost makes it seems like some kind of racist insult. 

:D

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spoonsinger

spoonsinger

Posted
Posted

Actually, and as this a criticism thread my observations are probably irrelevant. However having dunked 40 hours into the SSE version just for some old school stuff, (well currently running at 176 mods with it to make it playable - quite a lot just bsa expanded from the 32bit Skyrim and installed via the totally horrible NMM), the only time it's crashed has been to something to do with meshes/textures. (had some weird things happen to scenery, but I suspect that was down to load out order). I actually think Beth did a really good job on backward compatibility - probably more by luck than judgement. However as the market has now been opened up to the Xbone crowd there are going to be some compromises on the 'general' release of mods. For example Old Hroldan Town managed to get circa 11K downloads on the old 32bit version of it's time via the Nexus, but - even in it's slightly buggy state - got 100K+ in the first week on the Beth.net site. Authors of a certain type are going to apply their talents to the medium of most exposure - for whatever reason. However there are a lot of authors who really don't care about that exposure and just do it because. In the long run nothing really changed with the new version. (apart from a short term lack of third party functionality).,

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spoonsinger

spoonsinger

Posted
Posted

This is the only thread we're allowed to say anything bad about the holy Bethesda and their sacred "Zpecial Edition" and yet, fanboys come here to disturb our peace and convert us to their religion... GTFO fanboys! Oh, and I hate CBBE users.

 

Fucking crap Zpecial Edition. Don't know why they bothered. Probably all Trump/Clinton voting establishment proles. None of the above was the way to go but you can't lead sheep. Actually you can, but it requires dogs and shotguns. Not really sure about your point - unless we just seemed to post at the same time and you were replying to someone else.

 

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