SSE Criticism Thread

[slutofshades]

 

 

 

I just went trough the posts real quick, so don't know if this has been addressed yet (probably has been). But, here goes nothing.

 

As a veteran Skyrim pc user, does going through the hell of getting SSE and make all your old mods work on it has any advantages whatsoever? Like, in terms of performance (crashes, stability, RAM cap, etc); or it is yet to soon to tell?

 

Of course, there are differences!

I have a 7 year old PC, AMD Phenom II x 6 Black Edition, Geforce GTX 750 Ti and 8 GB memory.

Oldrim I play in ultra settings, I have 255 mods installed, I use predominantly and if available 4k textures. Have very rare (not to mention) CTDs.

SSE is on my system, playable in the lowest settings.

In contrast to this Is The Witcher 3 with much better graphics quality and more demanding energy, on my system in very high settings playable.

And mind you, The Witcher is a 64 bit game! 

 

 

Im gonna also guess you aren't on Windows 10?

 

Intel i7, Nvidia gtx 870 and 8gb memory.... 251 esm/esp mods, 436 total mods.

 

I cannot use Depth of Field on Oldrim ENBs without my fps hitting 13 - 15, without DoF steady 30. Cannot use 4k textures without guarenteed VRam crashes, at most I can use 2048 textures.... anything above that and CTDs are almost a certainty. Not to mention that most combinations of high script mods (for example, even so much as touching frostfall while playing my sexlab modlist) causes massive script lag, meaning almost 20 - 30 seconds before sexlab animations trigger, or cursed loot events.

 

Do tell me what witchery you have performed to get oldrim -that- stable?

 

In contrast by the way.... SSE runs a solid 60fps on ultra.....

 

 

properly, Windows 7 Is on my system.

Why I do not have CTDs Is quite easy to explain, I use almost no mods the with scripts are burdened.

and particularly I do not use mods, which are dependent on other Mods!

No FNIS, no SKSE, no SkyUi, So also no sex mods. 

 

 

I kind of guessed that it would be Windows 7, You get access to your full vram potential, I do not.

 

It also makes sense on having less scripts = less ctd's I suppose... though I am very impressed that you managed to find 255 esm/esp's without touching the heavier scripted stuff ^.^

 

I personally couldn't imagine no FNIS or SKSE.... or SkyUI.... even if I didn't use adult mods, those three just offer so much convenience.

 

Any way, thank you for explaining.

[TamaChan]

this is ll, we literally bring people together who seem to not belong together. people who add so many dirty mods their game constantly crashes, and people who don't even have sexlab installed.

[prinyo]

Actually the crashing of the Oldrim is not that bad as it would seem after reading posts online. The rule that people are posting when they have a problem applies. It is unusual to have people without a problem to post about that.

I'm quite happy with the fact that my longest save is 550 hours while using 200 - 220 plugins, including SLA/SLAR, Defeat, Random Sex, DD and such.

There are simple rules you need to follow in order to enjoy a stable Oldrim (I assume a crash every 20 - 30 hours is acceptable):

1. Use ENB Boost if you have Win 10

2. Use ENB Boost if you have Win 10

3. Don't install many mods in one go. Install 1-3 and test if there is no problem (for example port to 2-3 of the cities). If you find a problem and when you fix it use a save from before the problem appeared. 

4. Make sure the skeleton is always last in your load order.

 

It is not that hard to enjoy a stable Oldrim :-)

[winny257]

this is ll, we literally bring people together who seem to not belong together. people who add so many dirty mods their game constantly crashes, and people who don't even have sexlab installed.

 

 

When too much sex in the game, the processor becomes too hot, CTD. 

[Guest]

 

this is ll, we literally bring people together who seem to not belong together. people who add so many dirty mods their game constantly crashes, and people who don't even have sexlab installed.

 

When too much sex in the game, the processor becomes too hot, CTD. 

 

 

Hahahahaha - processor is always hot. He has his cock(s) stuck in the mother board all the time. So, they always have sex.

 

btw - ye, to many mods sex or not sex can crash the game but Skyrim is enough shitty to crash without single mod installed.

(I still love Skyrim better then Dragon Age Inquisition :P  )

 

[Levrette]

I've only skimmed through the thread so these points may have been mentioned.

 

Sprint is now a toggle!

No more sneak-dash-jump-dash or at least not in such a fluid way as before. Seriously clunky now

 

Fade-from-black on cell changes and loading now matches FO4's.

Though less likely to be one-shot in Skyrim it still feels very 'off' to have the game world in action while I still have a second of black screen to sit through, unable to do anything but listen. This may be due to my less than stellar PC but 2011 Skyrim is snappier and more responsive on load while SSE/FO4 has this noticeable fade-from-black delay.

 

I understand that they've used the FO4 engine for SSE and quite frankly I love the lighting stuff it brings, I spend hours wandering around and even on low/medium settings it's so much prettier than 2011 Skyrim especially at night.

 

Stability might be better with 64bit when I've got as many mods in SSE as I have in original Skyrim but that remains to be seen.

 

Also head bob seems more pronounced than before but that may be due to the plethora of mods I have in 2011 Skyrim.

Also..also...when zooming out from 1st to 3rd person my character often takes a little step forward which I'm absolutely sure never happened before. Tiny thing but when perched high on the crenellations of a ruined fort sniping thalmor that shuffle forward can be as deadly as a shove from Meeko

 

But changing basic gameplay controls like sprint is crappy

[HeavyDude]

I've only skimmed through the thread so these points may have been mentioned.

 

Sprint is now a toggle!

No more sneak-dash-jump-dash or at least not in such a fluid way as before. Seriously clunky now

 

Fade-from-black on cell changes and loading now matches FO4's.

Though less likely to be one-shot in Skyrim it still feels very 'off' to have the game world in action while I still have a second of black screen to sit through, unable to do anything but listen. This may be due to my less than stellar PC but 2011 Skyrim is snappier and more responsive on load while SSE/FO4 has this noticeable fade-from-black delay.

 

I understand that they've used the FO4 engine for SSE and quite frankly I love the lighting stuff it brings, I spend hours wandering around and even on low/medium settings it's so much prettier than 2011 Skyrim especially at night.

 

Stability might be better with 64bit when I've got as many mods in SSE as I have in original Skyrim but that remains to be seen.

 

Also head bob seems more pronounced than before but that may be due to the plethora of mods I have in 2011 Skyrim.

Also..also...when zooming out from 1st to 3rd person my character often takes a little step forward which I'm absolutely sure never happened before. Tiny thing but when perched high on the crenellations of a ruined fort sniping thalmor that shuffle forward can be as deadly as a shove from Meeko

 

But changing basic gameplay controls like sprint is crappy

 

Happens to me sometimes in Oldrim, rarely but still...

[TamaChan]

I've only skimmed through the thread so these points may have been mentioned.

 

Sprint is now a toggle!

No more sneak-dash-jump-dash or at least not in such a fluid way as before. Seriously clunky now

 

Fade-from-black on cell changes and loading now matches FO4's.

Though less likely to be one-shot in Skyrim it still feels very 'off' to have the game world in action while I still have a second of black screen to sit through, unable to do anything but listen. This may be due to my less than stellar PC but 2011 Skyrim is snappier and more responsive on load while SSE/FO4 has this noticeable fade-from-black delay.

 

I understand that they've used the FO4 engine for SSE and quite frankly I love the lighting stuff it brings, I spend hours wandering around and even on low/medium settings it's so much prettier than 2011 Skyrim especially at night.

 

Stability might be better with 64bit when I've got as many mods in SSE as I have in original Skyrim but that remains to be seen.

 

Also head bob seems more pronounced than before but that may be due to the plethora of mods I have in 2011 Skyrim.

Also..also...when zooming out from 1st to 3rd person my character often takes a little step forward which I'm absolutely sure never happened before. Tiny thing but when perched high on the crenellations of a ruined fort sniping thalmor that shuffle forward can be as deadly as a shove from Meeko

 

But changing basic gameplay controls like sprint is crappy

The load thing is not your pc. I have a top end gaming rig, and after load screens, no buttons work for about 1 second.

 

Also, they didn't use the fallout engine per-say, rather they took the core of the fallout engine(64-bit) and switched out the physics engine in oldrim to be 64 bit. Everything else in the game is basically the same. Textures, they ran through a program to make bigger, and meshes they updated, which appears to be mostly a side effect of using a hybrid skyrim/fo4 engine. Then they placed by hand some new stuff in the world and updated all the liquids in the game. They also changed by hand a lot of image stuff(what makes the game appear to have a higher production value) but in reality, it's mostly just parlor tricks. The amount of work they put into making sse is a fraction compared to what you think they likely spent.

 

And to be extra clear, sse is not running on fo4's engine. It's running on an upddated version of skyrim's engine that has improvments based on fo4's engine. It's kinda like how new vegas ran on an improved version of fo3's engine, which in turn, ran on an improved version of oblivion's engine. This is actually a good thing, because this means fo4 and sse mods are even more compatible than oldrim and fo4 mods were(which is to say a lot, it took very little effort to port a mod from fo4 to oldrim), but that sse doesn't suffer from all the problems fo4's engine does. Skse64 will likely be out by the time fo4se is stable. This is because sse's engine is easier to work with than fo4's engine. But there are some downsides, as the way that game is made to look good, relies on the same methods fo4 uses, which mean that there are some incompatibilities between sse and enb, and borrus(i think that's who make enb) has said if he does make sse-enb(he said it might not be worth the effort), it will have very limited features, similar to fo4-enb. Once skse64 is out, we can start working on stability improvements, and sse will almost certainly be infinitely more stable(depends a lot on your hardware), but we can also see how aside from some new launch bugs in sse, it is mostly already appearing to be more stable than oldrim.

 

Not sure about the head bob.

 

I don't remember and I don't have access to test in oldrim right now, but in sse when is 1st, your body is completely gone from the world and substituted with a cylinder/box with similar dimensions, and when you switch to 3rd your body is switched back. I have tested this by jumping inside flower pots(yes pots) and then switching to 3rd. When in 1st I can't get as low in the pots as 3rd. It appears the cylinder/box of 1st is somewhat larger than your actual body when your character's legs are together, but smaller than when your legs are apart. So if you are sneaking/weapon drawn, and switch to 3rd, then your hit box gets bigger making it appear as though you are taking a step, but it's more like the game is forcing your character out of a wall/the floor.

 

Lastly, the control thing might be somewhat unintended/a wanted side-effect of using parts of the fo4 engine. The save thing of the main menu, the hold to run/walk, and the toggle sprint stuff are likely also in this category. It also means, once skse64 comes out, there will probably be mods to change some of the controls back to the way they used to be. Still, the run toggle stills exists from oldrin, and I kinda like having the game set to auto run, then toggle/hold a key to walk. And there were already mods that changed the way sprinting worked in oldrim, so chances are there will something to help you with your sprinting problem. There was a mod that let you jump while sprinting, which I figure solves half your problem. The other part, I don't even remember being able to do, since sprint button while sneaking=roll.

 

That being said, the save game thing is mostly a problem for when loading in game, as you now can only load save-files from the same character you are currently playing, which could be a problem for testers/people who use alternate start, as the game saves before you name your character, which means you can't reload the first save the game makes without going back to the title screen, and if you have ever had frequent ctd on game load, you will know that loading the specific save file right after starting a new game is one of the most recommended/effective ways to load a save file that frequently ctd's on load. This is now not possible, although possibly unneeded, as the reason oldrim would ctd on save load most the time would be due to running out of vram, something is less of an issue with sse. Still it's An annoyance.

[Contessa]

Suddenly getting random "loading freezes" in the open world. It's like Morrowind all over again

[Antrox]

Putting it simply? 100% garbage money grab to trick modders and mod authors. 

 

"SSE will replace original skyrim"

-Nope, not a chance it will.

[The Corsair]

I dont understand this Remaster, there is just some effects here and there than we have seen in games in the last 6 years already, nobody asked for it.

 

Maybe they just did it so console players can have mods just like in fo4, maybe they do it just for the money so they can sell another skyrim for 40$, i just dont see the point of doing a remaster for a game that is not so old, maybe a dagerfall or morrowind remaster would have been better.

[winny257]

 

dagerfall or morrowind remaster would have been better.

 

That would have yes WORK for Bethesda signifies and to that are they No longer ready!

Why also, SSE little effort great asset, Only so deserves they quick money!

For a Morrowind remastered I would have paid 100 euros. 

 

Edit: because this is for me no alternative, there are only in English language edition! 

 

 

[Ahris]

I dont understand this Remaster, there is just some effects here and there than we have seen in games in the last 6 years already, nobody asked for it.

 

Maybe they just did it so console players can have mods just like in fo4, maybe they do it just for the money so they can sell another skyrim for 40$, i just dont see the point of doing a remaster for a game that is not so old, maybe a dagerfall or morrowind remaster would have been better.

What i heard is that they used Skyrim as a test platform when developing the engine for FO4, once FO4 was done thy still had the enhanced test version of Skyrim so they thought they might just as well polish it and release it to the fans.

 

So it's not a remaster per se, they would never have released this or even worked on it if it wasn't for FO4.

[b00marrows]

Fade-from-black on cell changes and loading now matches FO4's.

Though less likely to be one-shot in Skyrim it still feels very 'off' to have the game world in action while I still have a second of black screen to sit through, unable to do anything but listen. This may be due to my less than stellar PC but 2011 Skyrim is snappier and more responsive on load while SSE/FO4 has this noticeable fade-from-black delay.

This seems to be an issue for me too. Not only the the black screen transition pointless but it actually delays the game.

From what i can see my game loads any "transition" instantly, but there is a slight delay to movement as you wait for the "fade from black screen" to go away.

 

Its hard to explain but its like im standing there waiting for the loading screen to unload? so i can actually play.

[Gothfather]

I'm very disappointed. On one hand, yeah 64 bit engine (they just recompiled it to 64bit.. not a major task for them), then you have the laziest shite they pull off by "UPSCALING" the textures. Not even reworking or at least improving it by hand. They just upscaled it... The result is some pretty bad looking textures and at an added vram cost too. If you play at 4k you WILL notice how horrible the textures actually look.

 

Not to mention no bug fixes? They literally did nothing with the existing bugs and just sent it through the door. Oh well.  Maximal gain for minimum effort, and by minimum effort I mean bare bones minimum.

 

I'm really worried about the state of the next elder scrolls. They know automatically it will sell well so they will pull off the same laziness they have recently and that just worries me. I really hate to see one of my fave franchises get trodden to the ground like this, especially since the next elder scrolls isn't going to be out for a long time and I'll have very little time to even enjoy it fully. :/

 

I don't understand gamers sometimes. You seem to ignore just how big a step up going from 32 bit to 64 bit is. It is not a "yeah 64 bit engine" It is "YEAH!!!!!! Its a bloody 64bit engine people!!!!!!" This is a major step up the eliminates so many contrants and stability issues of oldrim. Remember those crashes when you had too many cosmetic hair mods and eye mods installed? They were cause because of the memory limits of the 32 bit engine. Exceed the 4 gig limit and poof bye bye skyrim.

 

It isn't some easy just recompile the code and everything is golden that took them all of a day to do, it is far more complicated than you believe. I for one am glad they spent their money on actually UGRADING the engine vs WASTING money on stupid textures. Textures that modders will replace anyway. They were a lot wiser in putting their very limited budget into creating effects and engine improvements than giving us bigger textures.

 

So many issues are not gone because of the new engine. With the increased stability you can get more objects on the screen that the engine can handle one issue with adding large battles in the game like with civil war mods was that if you had too many soldiers in the game they wouldn't react or do anything they would just stand there. This no longer happens. You know the flicker on the mountains in oldrim? Gone.  Have you looked how water flows now? It flows in the direction of the river and changes to match the terrain. Again this is possible because Bethesda decided to fix what was under the hood and not just give skyrim a new coat of paint. these are just a couple of things I can mention of the top of my head.

 

So yeah the car looks the same but under the hood we got a faster and sleeker engine able to push the games and the mods for the games far more than oldrim ever could dream of going. At what cost? at launch is wont look super slick until modders take advantage of the improvements.

 

Seriously what is wrong with gamers Bethesda makes the engine purr in 64 bit and people QQ because the paint job is the same?  

 

[Gothfather]

Putting it simply? 100% garbage money grab to trick modders and mod authors. 

 

"SSE will replace original skyrim"

-Nope, not a chance it will.

 

Err really? Because modders and mod authors were all on PC  for oldrim and PC users got the game for free so tell me in your warped mind how were they "tricked" into a money grab?

 

What is it with people ignoring facts to push their own narrative? It is almost like people just regurgitate something they heard about remasters in general and just repeat it here ignoring context of the actual issue they spew their sound bite about.

[Gothfather]

 

 

Seriously what is wrong with gamers Bethesda makes the engine purr in 64 bit and people QQ because the paint job is the same? 

 

You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that SSE was first and foremost released for CONSOLES. The shitstorm around mods comes in a significant part thanks to that too. Which in turn makes this upgrade a quick cash grab as many have already posted, our to put it more eloquently, Bethesda going Götz von Berlichingen on us.

 

 

And how the f@ck does that effect anyone on this forum? If you used loverslab to mod skyrim you owned the PC version and you got skyrim SE for FREE. Again how does this hurt any of us?

 

And if you talk about console players alone they got the ability to mod the bloody game which they never could before. For people that WANT to mod a what $40 USD game giving them mod features is a lot cheaper then buying a computer. If they don't want mod capability they don't have to buy the game. How is the existence of the CHOICE a black mark on Bethesda?

 

Yes Bethesda is trying to make money, SO F@CKING WHAT? They are a company the only way they can make games is to make money and be profitable. This is the first remaster I know of in history that allows console player to mod the content of their games not an insignificant added feature.

[firehawksh]

 

Yes Bethesda is trying to make money, SO F@CKING WHAT? They are a company the only way they can make games is to make money and be profitable.

 

Again this companies need money to exist? How about taking off the blindfold from your eyes for once? If that's all you can say, we can safely ignore you as there's no real argument you're trying to make.

 

Also, your pitiful attempt to be funny failed.

[Antrox]

 

Putting it simply? 100% garbage money grab to trick modders and mod authors. 

 

"SSE will replace original skyrim"

-Nope, not a chance it will.

 

Err really? Because modders and mod authors were all on PC  for oldrim and PC users got the game for free so tell me in your warped mind how were they "tricked" into a money grab?

 

What is it with people ignoring facts to push their own narrative? It is almost like people just regurgitate something they heard about remasters in general and just repeat it here ignoring context of the actual issue they spew their sound bite about.

 

Ignoring facts to push my narrative? Oh, so basically doing the same thing you're doing, right?

 

"All pc users get it free."

Hey speaking of facts; here's a fact you should put into that little mind of yours:

PC users who have "all of the DLC" get it free. Not everyone bought all of the DLC...

 

Also; I don't ignore facts, I ignore bullshit. There's a difference.

[TamaChan]

 

-snip-

 

 

And how the f@ck does that effect anyone on this forum? If you used loverslab to mod skyrim you owned the PC version and you got skyrim SE for FREE. Again how does this hurt any of us?

 

And if you talk about console players alone they got the ability to mod the bloody game which they never could before. For people that WANT to mod a what $40 USD game giving them mod features is a lot cheaper then buying a computer. If they don't want mod capability they don't have to buy the game. How is the existence of the CHOICE a black mark on Bethesda?

 

Yes Bethesda is trying to make money, SO F@CKING WHAT? They are a company the only way they can make games is to make money and be profitable. This is the first remaster I know of in history that allows console player to mod the content of their games not an insignificant added feature.

 

! warning wall of text !

 

I'm someone who will let beth raw-dog me all my life, and will definitely get the next game too. I have also been sucking their dick about 64-bit so I do personally agree that it is a big deal. But I think you are misunderstanding this thread, and possibly even a lot about beth too. This thread is mostly us hating beth for being money-hungry, lazy, arseholes. Despite being 64-bit being extremely useful, it's almost certain they did it not for the modding community, but for console players, so that they could sell a 5 year old game at retail price with the promise of mods to casuals. Now if I were a casual I prolly wouldn't hate beth so much, but the fact is, they gave it to us for free likely because they new how much the modding community would flip a b*tch if they expected us to pay full retail price for just a better engine(since that's the only part we care about) after everything else they have done since oldrim's release(see paid modding for starters). We know from beth's own accounts and from looking inside the engine, that sse first and foremost is aimed at consoles players. Now if the company was about to go bankrupt, this might be acceptable, but this is just the beginning of it. Because now we are getting all kinds of reports from big names in the modding scene talking about how they expected the cre-kit beta to be a fun experience to pay back pillars of the modding community, and instead, it was beth making sure there would be mods at release for the console plebs. They took advantage of the modding community's good will again. I'm not someone who hates console players, or who thinks a company making money is bad. But when a company decides they are going to ignore the pc players(their most important demographic) in favor of the console players, and make the game shittier because they are sacrificing things to try and sell more copies, then they are prioritizing money TOO much, and showing us they, are not likely to change their ways. For the first 5-ish days, I was glad about sse and had hopes about beth thhinking they learned their mistakes from skyrim, eso, and fo4. But that was because beth had a gag-order on the beta-modders. They weren't aloud to talk about the game until after it came out, or at the very least many of them were not told whether or not they could. This resulted in the release being good and the response being bad. Beth expected the modding community to fix their games, now that they are selling mods to consoles in the form of a 5yo game at retail price, they are now expecting the modding community to sell their game for them. Unacceptable.

 

#bethesdasux

 

-snip-

Ignoring facts to push my narrative? Oh, so basically doing the same thing you're doing, right?

 

"All pc users get it free."

Hey speaking of facts; here's a fact you should put into that little mind of yours:

PC users who have "all of the DLC" get it free. Not everyone bought all of the DLC...

 

Also; I don't ignore facts, I ignore bullshit. There's a difference.

 

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Ever since beth announced pc players with all dlcs would get it for free, websites have been having sales on and off. Some of them for as low as $1 dollar for all the dlc. So the only excuse to not have the dlc before the game came out was not knowing you get it for free if you have the dlc.

[Guest enip]

To make matters worse for those who have not seen this, let me add more salt to that wound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yeah, Beth sucks since a very long time and even more so when paid mods was introduced. It was the beginning of the end and ever since, they've been nothing but money hungry, greedy big fat liars.

[Aria]

To make matters worse for those who have not seen this, let me add more salt to that wound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yeah, Beth sucks since a very long time and even more so when paid mods was introduced. It was the beginning of the end and ever since, they've been nothing but money hungry, greedy big fat liars.

Tbh this changes nothing, the impulsive gamers that buy anything on day one or preorder and then get screwed are going to be screwed anyway, the gamers that wait for reviews will wait.

But what can happen is that Bethesdas rep will be damaged over time, because a company willing to go to these lenghts to screw their costumers will add more and more of that shit and even the dumbest of sheep will sooner or later realize.

 

The only ones really screwed over this are the gaming sites, but honestly with the exception of a few, gaming journalism has been garbage for years anyway.

 

Though Total Biscuits vid made me realize LL is becoming something like this as of late ..."here you have your criticsm thread, dont get in our way, now shoo shoo and let us continue our free work for bethesdas good will"

Even the way this thread is taged is ment to ridicule anyone that criticizes bethesda.

 

[b00marrows]

Bethesda rely on the "impulse buyers" as there releases are buggy as shit, if people waited and bought it after the buggyness was fixed bethesda would shit themselves.

They dont have to release many patches as the modders will fix it for them.

[TamaChan]

 

 -snip-

I kinda get your point, but if you haven't seen other threads, many threads about getting stuff done were being derailed by someone coming in and starting an argument about whether not sse is a flop or not. Now that is an important conversation, and probably will lead to something productive, but there is no need for every thread to devolve into "beth sux" and "mah 64-bit". So the other threads are for their specific discussion/mod, and this thread is for this specific discussion. And if you want to criticize sse for something specific and how to fix it, then you should make a different thread, so it's not like all criticism is relegated to this thread, just more of the general criticism leveled at beth.

 

Plus, I feel a little insulted by you for insinuating I'm even a little sheepish towards beth. I don't do anything on this website for their goodwill, I do it because they have a shitty game that has nearly limitless potential, and I plan to take full advantage of said potential.

(text doesn't have emotion, so that statement is meant to be read with neutrality not anger or any neg. emotion.) 

 

Lastly, it's not just journalist websites that suffer. In the video tb talks about how some of those websites don't make a lot of money and if they can't generate revenue by making reviews, because the game companies won't let them, then they might go under and we won't have as much variety when it comes to reviews. There is also the problem that if a company like beth gets away with being bad for long enough they are gonna screw themselves over, and then we won't have elder scrolls and fallout games to mod anymore. If you don't discipline(I mean verbally) a child when they do something bad, then they will almost without fail do it again. And if we don't tell bethesda that their game is shit, and tell them their media policy is shit, then their media policy will stay(or get worse), and they will keep making games that pc players hate, but that console players love. We have to make sure beth knows they can't get away with doing something bad(ignoring/actively treating their fans like garbage) and not deal with any consequences, or they will end up like EA. A company that corners the market with many of their franchises, which means they do whatever they want, because they know everyone will still buy the next sims game. They don't even have to care that the sims 3 is one of the top ten most pirated games, because they sold so many legit copies.

[isalex]

Just my two cents...

Bethesda had the opportunity to really give us an improved Skyrim,and they would´nt even have to work too hard.. they could have just scannned the Mod-pages and compiled a list of what mods were the most popular for Skyrim ,contacted the authors of the top ten or twnty mods and asked if they could implement them in the SE.... but no.. they just repackaged it with minimal improvemets and continue down the path of "patches" that break more than they fix(if they fix anything).. Bethesda claims to listen to the community.. i fear that they only listen to kiss-asses and sycophants.. they sure don´t listen to pc-players..