What is your pet peeve about Fallout 4?

[Wast1980]

 

Here you go: https://www.blender.org/

Too complicated can you simplify it so its usable by people without spending months learning it?

 

Honestly to do the first steps it takes just as long as getting into OutfitStudio, have you even tried it? You can find tutorials on youtube. And on Loverslab if I remember right.

And the whole shaping process is a lot easier with Blender, because you have much more control and you will get better results than with OS.

[Wast1980]

 

Here you go: https://www.blender.org/

Too complicated can you simplify it so its usable by people without spending months learning it?

The question is who doesn't get it.

 

If you want to do textures, you won't start with MS Paint, you will start with Gimp (which is more hard to learn than Photoshop).

If you want to do conversions you should start with an easy to learn 3d modelling software like Blender.

 

Learning it from OS just wastes your time which you could invest in learning something superior. 

 

As I said imo OS is a great tool to get the nif file ready to use, getting the weighting done, but not for shaping.

Actually you don't get it, if you want to do textures you can start with MS paint, Paint.NET and move up to Gimp/Photoshop.

Blender isn't easy to learn, as a complete noob I prefer 3DSMax for learning, but its not free of course.

And Blender won't do the batch adjust thingy either.

 

Now I'm curious, how can you save dds files with MS Paint? How good is the current version of Paint.NET when it comes to new compression methods? If you start with MS Paint you are doing something wrong.

I don't talk about creating outfits from scratch, we are talking about conversions, no need to create uv maps or sculpting or whatever.

I suggest Blender because it is free.

Batch adjust thingy? You mean Bodyslide batch build? I'm talking about conversions, not destroying meshes with sliders.

I was able to use blender, and it didn't took long to learn it, now with outfitstudio it is even easier, no weight copy in blender, no nif export script necessary, no skeleton import and all the beautiful things which were necessary back then. 

[Guest Real]

>.> comparing OS to Blender is like comparing a toaster to an entire kitchen. 

However, if you just want toast... I wont care.

 

[GrimReaper]

 

Your definition of art seems to be pretty irrelevant.

Everyone who creates something is an artist, saying someone who uses Outfitstudio gets the power of an experienced modder (artist, creator, put your preferred term in here) is a lie on one hand and an insult to "experienced modder" on the other.

Lol, you really think Bodyslide is a solution? Inflating here, deflating there and the result is just a grotesque abomination of the original work.

yeah, looks great, doesn't it?

If the results are just this quality, I give a fuck about customization.

 

 

I didn't define art and how you use a tool is the responsibility of the person using said tool. And my point still stands, OS enables you do to things that previously only experienced modders could do - that by no means has any influence on the quality you personally are able to achieve. Novice modders are people that understand the basic file structure of the game and can make a few adjustments in the CK, experienced modders are people that know their way around 3rd party tools to make more indepth modifications. The ability to mod means that you are able to modify a game, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are suddenly an artist though an artist can be a great modder. There isn't one field of expertise that makes or breakes a modder. And yes, to be able to create that little abomination of yours is something only an experienced modder could do in the past, because you'd need to know your way around blender.

 

Also I find it funny that you say that anyone that creates something is an artist, so that abomination in that little picture of yours is also supposed to be art?

 

 

OS as the gateway to more complex 3d modding is a fallacy.  Just look at the amount of conversions versus the amount of new content being made.  Facts are facts.  FO4 has bottle-necked and there is a dearth of new outfits and armors.  But this is okay.  I'm happy that the CBBE/OS crowd got their way; they have cornered the FO4 body mod market.  This is a good thing.  It limits creativity and further narrows an already dwindling interest in the game.  IF I ever go back to FO4 I'll play it without body replacers until something better comes along.

Cannibalizing content made for previous games is nothing new nor exclusive for Fallout, look at all the conversions made for Skyrim, either taken from Oblivion or Daz 3D models. Doesn't help that many hair mods as well are just ported content. Just compare the hotfiles for Skyrim in the first year after its release and those from Fallout 4, it reads pretty much the same.

 

I also fail to see how choosing between UNP and CBBE bolstered the creativity of the user base because it was simply a choice of taste. You simply used what you liked better. And for Oblivion it was pretty much a choice between HGEC and nothing else really because the other bodies were left dead in the water.

[Kendo 2]

Previous games didn't have OS to fall back on.  Making an outfit (even a simple conversion) required knowledge of Blender or 3DMax.  Not so with Skyrim or FO4.  If someone knows how to maneuver in Blender or 3DMax to do conversions they are only a few tutorials away from making new outfits.  OS doesn't provide for or incentivize that aspect of 3d modelling.  If it did, people would be doing it.  And they're not.  That's why the majority of FO4 CBBE mods are rehashed Skyrim content.  The talent base to make new outfits is for the most part is not there.  That's what happens when people get lazy and things get easy.  And there isn't a FO4 UNP for CBBE users to poach content from.  Hence the bottleneck.

 

And yes the lack of diversity in FO4 is a peeve I have with the game.  Skyrim content I've been looking at for three and half years isn't new or fresh just because it was made to work with FO4.  It doesn't spark my imagination, creativity or interest.  And no, I don't like the game enough to waste my time making my own body mod for it like I did for Skyrim.

[GrimReaper]

Creativity isn't all about technical knowledge. Give someone a paper and a pencil and they aren't able to do anything with it, give an artist the same and you will have some amazing results. Blender doesn't compel you to become an artist. It gives you the necessary tools but not much more and since the overwhelming majority of modders can't create original content to save their lives but instead rely on stuff that is already there AND on tools developed by others I don't think that your theory holds any merit. The quality doesn't increase just because the tool you are using is harder to work with. OS is a simple and limited tool compared to Blender, and people have been stealing mods since the dawn of time. If you want to go all out, you do have to use blender but since it was always a tiny fraction of modders that could create something of worth out of the standard box shape Blender offers it doesn't really matter.

[Kendo 2]

The fact that there is a deficit of new outfit work being done for FO4 proves my point.  But whatever.  Believe what you want to believe.

[GrimReaper]

Data without context is pretty much meaningless. The Fallout games from bethesda historically always had less content being created for them than TES games. The game is less than a year old and since I assume you skipped Skyrim for 1 1/2 years you probably weren't too heavily invested in the modding scene that much which was basically 'have this armor/hair from Oblivion' during that time. Just use the nexus search function to look at the very first armor mods created for Skyrim which were either bad texture edits, deleting shapes with nifskope or ports from Oblivion.

[Halstrom]

Now I'm curious, how can you save dds files with MS Paint? How good is the current version of Paint.NET when it comes to new compression methods? If you start with MS Paint you are doing something wrong.

I don't talk about creating outfits from scratch, we are talking about conversions, no need to create uv maps or sculpting or whatever.

I suggest Blender because it is free.

Batch adjust thingy? You mean Bodyslide batch build? I'm talking about conversions, not destroying meshes with sliders.

I was able to use blender, and it didn't took long to learn it, now with outfitstudio it is even easier, no weight copy in blender, no nif export script necessary, no skeleton import and all the beautiful things which were necessary back then.

You don't but my first learning on other games was using MSPaint before I went to Paint.NET

And Paint.NET works fine for NewVegas, haven't tried making anything in FO4, but it opens them fine.

And what do you really care, I was unaware this horrible bodyslide outfit studio thing us noobs are using could actually ruin meshes in other peoples games.

 

Oh god no we are diluting the quality of a few Pro Blender users. At least outfit studio users are making mods instead of just whining. Maybe you should prove they are evil by releasing better versions using Blender.

 

Your argument is like saying hammers are useless because they aren't as fast as nailguns.......

[Wast1980]

 

Now I'm curious, how can you save dds files with MS Paint? How good is the current version of Paint.NET when it comes to new compression methods? If you start with MS Paint you are doing something wrong.

I don't talk about creating outfits from scratch, we are talking about conversions, no need to create uv maps or sculpting or whatever.

I suggest Blender because it is free.

Batch adjust thingy? You mean Bodyslide batch build? I'm talking about conversions, not destroying meshes with sliders.

I was able to use blender, and it didn't took long to learn it, now with outfitstudio it is even easier, no weight copy in blender, no nif export script necessary, no skeleton import and all the beautiful things which were necessary back then.

You don't but my first learning on other games was using MSPaint before I went to Paint.NET

And Paint.NET works fine for NewVegas, haven't tried making anything in FO4, but it opens them fine.

And what do you really care, I was unaware this horrible bodyslide outfit studio thing us noobs are using could actually ruin meshes in other peoples games.

 

Oh god no we are diluting the quality of a few Pro Blender users. At least outfit studio users are making mods instead of just whining. Maybe you should prove they are evil by releasing better versions using Blender.

 

Your argument is like saying hammers are useless because they aren't as fast as nailguns.......

 

I don't need to proof that creating something is better than generating something (as I said, it's about common sense).

The attached file is one of my last blender conversion works (original by FavoredSoul), I wasn't experienced at all and it has it flaws, but it is still better than this generated mess you get with OS.

Look at the outfits available for Fallout 4, 90% are just a bad joke, it's insane.

And claiming OS is the right way to convert outfits is the reason behind this.

If you are happy with it, its ok, so bad quality is your thing I guess.

 

It's also about this mental decision, do I want to release something meh, or do I want to release something I'm happy with.

outfitf.nif

[bluedog]

Art is a language.  It is not tools.  This conversation is the equivalent of  saying that a great a writer is not an artist if they do not know to design a better font.  I love dyeline font by Jonathan Hill, but I also like Joyce Carol Oates on boxing.  Both are different kinds of art but there is no doubt about the art.

 

A modder who has limited knowledge or ability in 3d skills still has the capacity to produce great art within the limited palette, where the artistry is in the story that the modder is creating with that palette.  And even if the artistry does not stand up to some people's description of art, for that modder, the moments of creativity, even if in just creating an imagined backstory that makes sense of the world they are playing in, are important artistic efforts.

 

Surely we have left behind all that "Great Artist" rubbish, and recognized that in our short painful lives, we are all artists.  

 

And I can't believe that I fell into this...

[Halstrom]

Look at the outfits available for Fallout 4, 90% are just a bad joke, it's insane.

And claiming OS is the right way to convert outfits is the reason behind this.

If you are happy with it, its ok, so bad quality is your thing I guess.

 

It's also about this mental decision, do I want to release something meh, or do I want to release something I'm happy with.

I'll take those bad outfits over no outfits thank you, no one is stopping you from doing better.

Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release.

Badmouthing other modders work is not cool, not everyone is FIGJAM.

[Wast1980]

 

Look at the outfits available for Fallout 4, 90% are just a bad joke, it's insane.

And claiming OS is the right way to convert outfits is the reason behind this.

If you are happy with it, its ok, so bad quality is your thing I guess.

 

It's also about this mental decision, do I want to release something meh, or do I want to release something I'm happy with.

I'll take those bad outfits over no outfits thank you, no one is stopping you from doing better.

Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release.

Badmouthing other modders work is not cool, not everyone is FIGJAM.

 

lmao

 

I released the file I gave you:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/51728/?

 

and a SeveNBase version of Bouncy Bodices and Boots:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21271/?

 

Both are done with Blender, and even the old Blender version did a better job than OS.

 

But I would never release a conversion done with OS.

The last sentence of my reply was referring to current mod "authors"

[skeletor]

 

 

Look at the outfits available for Fallout 4, 90% are just a bad joke, it's insane.

And claiming OS is the right way to convert outfits is the reason behind this.

If you are happy with it, its ok, so bad quality is your thing I guess.

 

It's also about this mental decision, do I want to release something meh, or do I want to release something I'm happy with.

I'll take those bad outfits over no outfits thank you, no one is stopping you from doing better.

Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release.

Badmouthing other modders work is not cool, not everyone is FIGJAM.

 

lmao

 

I released the file I gave you:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/51728/?

 

and a SeveNBase version of Bouncy Bodices and Boots:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21271/?

 

Both are done with Blender, and even the old Blender version did a better job than OS.

 

But I would never release a conversion done with OS.

The last sentence of my reply was referring to current mod "authors"

 

 

You were talking about how 90% of FO4 outfits are bad.

He replied to you about, you not having anything on FO4.

 

You reply back about your mods on FO:NV and skyrim?...

 

[DoctaSax]

The topic of this thread is pet peeves, so let's stick to that instead of the umpteenth quarrel about bodyslide/outfitstudio.

[Wast1980]

 

 

 

 

Look at the outfits available for Fallout 4, 90% are just a bad joke, it's insane.

And claiming OS is the right way to convert outfits is the reason behind this.

If you are happy with it, its ok, so bad quality is your thing I guess.

 

It's also about this mental decision, do I want to release something meh, or do I want to release something I'm happy with.

I'll take those bad outfits over no outfits thank you, no one is stopping you from doing better.

Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release.

Badmouthing other modders work is not cool, not everyone is FIGJAM.

 

lmao

 

I released the file I gave you:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/51728/?

 

and a SeveNBase version of Bouncy Bodices and Boots:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21271/?

 

Both are done with Blender, and even the old Blender version did a better job than OS.

 

But I would never release a conversion done with OS.

The last sentence of my reply was referring to current mod "authors"

 

 

 

You were talking about how 90% of FO4 outfits are bad.

He replied to you about, you not having anything on FO4.

 

You reply back about your mods on FO:NV and skyrim?...

 

 

I guess you misread something (he didn't ask about a release for Fallout 4, the question was if blender is a better tool to convert outfits than OS, which should be obvious, but...), read the whole story, then we can talk, or not because my original statement was about common sense, not opinions...

It's like in the game industry, defending bad quality will make things just worse.

[skeletor]

Wast1980 - He called you out that you haven't released anything on FO4 with blender.  Right in this sentence " Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release." He was talking about FO4 outfits. Not blender/OS in general. And your response was about the work you done on NW and Skyrim.

 

 

 If I am misreading than damn. If you still disagree then lets just leave it at that and move on.

 

 

 

 

 

[srayesmanll]

Guys:  http://www.loverslab.com/topic/65441-what-is-your-pet-peeve-about-fallout-4/?p=1691744

 

[Wast1980]

Wast1980 - He called you out that you haven't released anything on FO4 with blender.  Right in this sentence " Blender can't be working that well, you still haven't made anything you are happy to release." He was talking about FO4 outfits. Not blender/OS in general. And your response was about the work you done on NW and Skyrim.

 

 

 If I am misreading than damn. If you still disagree then lets just leave it at that and move on.

Ain't got the point yet, do you?

[DoctaSax]

Thread closed due to repeated breaches of rules 1, 2 & 7.