Devious Training

[Lupine00]

While I find SLAR fails at most things, it would be adequate in this case, combined with counting orgasms (which already happens), it has some immersion value ... for me.

 

I could happly base all training on, time, plus orgasms, plus beatings. I don't really get it that regular hits train you, bound up like that, you should probably just die  or it's an item that simply has nothing to do with being hit.

 

However, we're seeing that people have different ideas of what should train you.

 

I think it would be good to expose the training model and allow it to be adjusted. Perhaps that was planned, as there are basically (at the moment) a set of ten scale values for each item that determines the contribution from:

 

       countWalk,        countRun,        countSprint,        countSneak,        countJump,        countAttack,        countSwim,        countHorse,        countSpeak,        countHit

 

I recommend an analysis, adding up the total training contribution for each of these values, performing a sampling of typical activities over a week of play to determine whether these terms are really being scaled in a meaningful way.

 

My gut feel is that there are differences of magnitude here that may not be appropriately scaled.

 

 

I see the bogus scaling of pick pocket from boots (in DT2Core):

 

    thiefBuff = thiefBuff + (bootsMod * 0.5)
 

...LATER...

 

thiefBuff is applied to sneak, pick-pocket and pick-locks, all equally:

 

    if thiefBuff < 0
        Spell tmpSpell = DTStorage.DTThiefDebuff
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(0, -1 * thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(1, -1 * thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(2, -1 * thiefBuff)
        DTActor.npcs_ref[slot].addSpell(tmpSpell,false)
    endIf
    if thiefBuff > 0
        Spell tmpSpell = DTStorage.DTThiefBuff
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(0, thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(1, thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(2, thiefBuff)
        DTActor.npcs_ref[slot].addSpell(tmpSpell,false)
    endIf

[skyrimfet]

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

While I find SLAR fails at most things, it would be adequate in this case, combined with counting orgasms (which already happens), it has some immersion value ... for me.

 

I could happly base all training on, time, plus orgasms, plus beatings. I don't really get it that regular hits train you, bound up like that, you should probably just die  or it's an item that simply has nothing to do with being hit.

 

However, we're seeing that people have different ideas of what should train you.

 

I think it would be good to expose the training model and allow it to be adjusted. Perhaps that was planned, as there are basically (at the moment) a set of ten scale values for each item that determines the contribution from:

 

       countWalk,        countRun,        countSprint,        countSneak,        countJump,        countAttack,        countSwim,        countHorse,        countSpeak,        countHit

 

I recommend an analysis, adding up the total training contribution for each of these values, performing a sampling of typical activities over a week of play to determine whether these terms are really being scaled in a meaningful way.

 

My gut feel is that there are differences of magnitude here that may not be appropriately scaled.

 

 

I see the bogus scaling of pick pocket from boots (in DT2Core):

 

    thiefBuff = thiefBuff + (bootsMod * 0.5)
 

...LATER...

 

thiefBuff is applied to sneak, pick-pocket and pick-locks, all equally:

 

    if thiefBuff < 0
        Spell tmpSpell = DTStorage.DTThiefDebuff
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(0, -1 * thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(1, -1 * thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(2, -1 * thiefBuff)
        DTActor.npcs_ref[slot].addSpell(tmpSpell,false)
    endIf
    if thiefBuff > 0
        Spell tmpSpell = DTStorage.DTThiefBuff
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(0, thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(1, thiefBuff)
        tmpSpell.SetNthEffectMagnitude(2, thiefBuff)
        DTActor.npcs_ref[slot].addSpell(tmpSpell,false)
    endIf

oh shit, i have many text to read - ok -

i'm lazy and i decided to create something like packages, combat skills, thief skills etc 
and now:
thiefBuff means affecting on lockpick and sneak etc - it's reason that boot's affect on lockpick - my intention was only to debuff sneak so i simply use thief(de)Buff.

[skyrimfet]

2 hours ago, AWHA said:

As a peasant with an i5 and a mid-tier GPU, I agree. Too many mods on LL use unnecessarily complicated calculations and frequent timers. The best part of this mod are the visual changes, and if the calculations for "training" can be made simpler, everybody wins.

any ideas? - now calculations are simpler than before

ok, i have idea - i will add checkbox - turn off buff/debuff - this part will be completly skiped in processing - mod will be not complete but you get You "favorite" content: body changes.

 

sounds good?

[AWHA]

1 hour ago, skyrimfet said:

any ideas? - now calculations are simpler than before

ok, i have idea - i will add checkbox - turn off buff/debuff - this part will be completly skiped in processing - mod will be not complete but you get You "favorite" content: body changes.

 

sounds good?

Hehe I hope you got some sleep, you've been working too hard and yes a toggle to disable non-visual calculations would be perfect, my CPU would appreciate it.

 

The buff/debuff thing is way overused on LL in my opinion, lets say you have SGO, MME, SLAR and this mod, all of them have various calculations for buffs/debuffs. Sometimes a single stat is changed up/down by 3 or 4 mods at once, and the result becomes very unpredictable while the gameplay benefits are minimal.

[Lupine00]

Because I am such a contrarian, I do like the buff/debuff, especially the debuffs.

 

2 hours ago, AWHA said:

The buff/debuff thing is way overused on LL in my opinion, lets say you have SGO, MME, SLAR and this mod, all of them have various calculations for buffs/debuffs. Sometimes a single stat is changed up/down by 3 or 4 mods at once, and the result becomes very unpredictable while the gameplay benefits are minimal.

Don't forget DCL and DD itself.

 

I also like the incidental effects added from wearing a device you aren't trained in - I'd like to see those expanded if possible - especially more dramatic stuff for boots, and maybe tripping over in armbinder too.

 

The body scaling ... I like the idea of it ... but there are so many mods that want to squeeze and stretch my poor PC's body that I have to turn it off in most cases.

SLIF hasn't really worked out for me in the past, so I don't have it in for this game.

 

At the moment, DTII body weight scaling does not turn off. I think it is supposed to, but it does not. This leaves my character perma-stuck at weight 0, which I set up for beggars and such in Bodyslide.

 

For now, I've changed all my body morphs so it's cancelled out, and I have a shape that I think looks right for the training.

[curiouskey25]

Anyone have issues with the mod not appearing or functioning? I have zaz 8 as the only difference to the requirements.

[skyrimfet]

2 hours ago, curiouskey25 said:

Anyone have issues with the mod not appearing or functioning? I have zaz 8 as the only difference to the requirements.

zaz is not supported, You need to use Devious Devices
found You in MCM Devous Training? i dont know nothing about logs, game setup - as long this mod is online nobody report "not appearing"
please, check again all requiment's and make sure that you use DD etc. zaz 8.0, 7.0 or plus is ok

[Lupine00]

The DTII dev version works fine for me with Zaz 8 Plus and ZEP installed rather than trusty Zaz 7.

 

I believe skyrimfet is implying that DDII doesn't make any calls to the Zpf framework, so your Zaz version shouldn't matter, just as long as DD works.

[evergrey]

i can't seem to get any boots training?? what boots do i need to start the training

[Nyx Morrigan]

1 hour ago, evergrey said:

i can't seem to get any boots training?? what boots do i need to start the training

You need devious devices boots. Or if they don't register go into the Devious Training MCM and add the boots manually. 

[evergrey]

oh you can add them manually? did not know that, thanks of the info

[Rogwar002]

On 16.5.2018 at 12:01 PM, skyrimfet said:

sounds good?

hell, yeah

[skyrimfet]

2 minutes ago, Rogwar002 said:

hell, yeah

next week / holidays im going to share time between being a cow and devious training

 

[oldgrumbler]

On 5/16/2018 at 1:01 PM, skyrimfet said:

any ideas?

huh, only piercing and suits left... posibly training with health/stamina/magica buff/debuff for piercing and armor/mag.resistance for suits ("second skin" etc).

next stage- combinations of restrains: like blindfold+gag+collar="fashion bust", nipple piercing+chastity bra="caught balls" ?

[curiouskey25]

On 5/18/2018 at 5:20 PM, skyrimfet said:

zaz is not supported, You need to use Devious Devices
found You in MCM Devous Training? i dont know nothing about logs, game setup - as long this mod is online nobody report "not appearing"
please, check again all requiment's and make sure that you use DD etc. zaz 8.0, 7.0 or plus is ok

found my issue. mod wants clean install. like new game reset. was not aware of this

[WilhelmCarstein]

can you add the training for the catsuit and the hobble dress?

 

[Kethrian]

I hope this mod is being adjusted for the new gear that was included in the DDX/DDI 4.0 & 4.1 releases.

 

Bug report: I do not use SLIF, and do not have it installed, but I've found that your mod still occasionally resets my character's weight slider to 50.  I saw that the disabled SLIF controls panel shows a weight slider at the bottom, and is defaulted to 50.

[skyrimfet]

16 minutes ago, Kethrian said:

I hope this mod is being adjusted for the new gear that was included in the DDX/DDI 4.0 & 4.1 releases.

 

Bug report: I do not use SLIF, and do not have it installed, but I've found that your mod still occasionally resets my character's weight slider to 50.  I saw that the disabled SLIF controls panel shows a weight slider at the bottom, and is defaulted to 50.

after this weekend im going to focus only on DT. Is currently unofficial test version of new DT attached in one of post here - is save to use but still not completed.

[user9120975435]

 Please, please, PLEASE make a version with body scaling completely removed!! I love this mod, but even though I completely disable body scaling and set weight to 0, after a time weight goes back to 50, even though it's completely disabled and grayed out, messing up my Sexlab Hormones weight progress. It sadly made me remove your wonderful mod, but without body scaling I would definitely use it again.

[Jimi123]

if iam turning on slif support in mcm in devious training my head gets big ??

and yes  i am usin slif framework

what did i wrong ?

 

should i install slif patch with devious device ? or turn it off ? ( i had turn it off i thinked ?

[Rogwar002]

9 hours ago, Jimi123 said:

if iam turning on slif support in mcm in devious training my head gets big ??

and yes  i am usin slif framework

what did i wrong ?

 

should i install slif patch with devious device ? or turn it off ? ( i had turn it off i thinked ?

this is a known issue. The calculation is a little misaligned... Maybe Skyrimfet will adapt a few suggestions or change the code for a better alignment.

[SirCrazy]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:22 AM, skyrimfet said:

after this weekend im going to focus only on DT. Is currently unofficial test version of new DT attached in one of post here - is save to use but still not completed.

 

I can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

Suggestion: MCM option to make the pony shout available immediately. 

Reason: The player starts life as a pony girl but wishes to become something more, so she sets off to find her destiny and becomes an adventurer.  She uses the abilities acquired from her old life to help with her new one.

[skyrimfet]

12 hours ago, Rogwar002 said:

this is a known issue. The calculation is a little misaligned... Maybe Skyrimfet will adapt a few suggestions or change the code for a better alignment.

i have seen short discussion about this issue - you are not only one - im going to check it, i should today start working with new DT version

 

are you using latest DT? or "dev version"?

[Rogwar002]

1 hour ago, skyrimfet said:

are you using latest DT? or "dev version"?

3.0 dev version.

 

But I tinkered that much in your code, that I can only tell, what I saw before.

- The misalingment of head and neck is gone (as far as you don´t go overboard with the slider; setting of 25 is giving a good result, but going all the way to 40 will give my toon  a strange look... Think about a stick with a head on it )

- I get now your idea having Spine1 and Spine2. I can now make a wasp spine (I mean it!!!) without having  a huge body upwards (this one was difficult but finally...)

- Speed(de)buff is now set to a number looking still good, but not to much. Fixed the debuff to 25% max, otherwise it is possible that the movement of the PC is impossible (stuck). Lower would be possible, but walking from whiterun gate to Adrianne in more than 10 minutes is waste of time

- changed the growing breast to a formular, having only the possiblity of shrinking breast beneath a chastity bra. Corrected the slider btw (you made the slider integer but gave it a float in your formular)

- finally I got rid of all the annyoing messages.

- tried to implement NiOverride Heels, ending reactivating your boot section in the MCM. Having four different boots for my character possible is enough on my side.

- I remember correcting the NiOverride setups for some things you had already in SLIF, my scripts should now show the same results with or without SLIF (SLIF is part of my actual setup, did no testing without, till now)

 

I learned really a huge amount. But still I feel like a baby tinkering with existing code. It is annoying to try to understand code, not written by myself. Still I´m missing the basics of what is possible. BUT now I am able to correct the most annoying bugs in some mods. You can think about yourself now as my teacher   Thanks Sykrimfet.

I´m not as good at writing scripts as I wish for, therefore I have no versioning in my script files. All I can provide, if you want, is the result of the changes for you to look at.

 

I LOVE the idea of having visual effects wearing devious devices.

This is a must have in my load order and I will work anything around it.

If there is time, I will change the mesh for your plug wearing results. In my opinion both meshes look disgusting on a character. No offense, but I don´t like them.

[Jimi123]

Maybe adding crawl support without SD or what it needed ? i also have slaverun installed which allows crawling too or better 2 its forcing it but in dt i cant check it