Follower AI system, so broken

[bytion]

I wonder why the follower system is so useless in Fallout 4 as in previous games? Some of settings are not just because beth is lazy, more like trolling.

 

1 Accuracy: if you don't fix it yourself, all followers have terrible weapon accuracy, they can waste 500 bullets on someone, only slightly hurt him a few times, yes all of them, and make matter worse, if they are not in power armor, they usually spend some times finding a cover which block their LOS.

 

2 Aggressiveness: How many times you notice your followers just stand in a firefight, don't do shit until some bullets hit them, then they return fire? This happen way too often on Melee enemies, My follower holding range weapon and they let melee enemies come to them, get hit in the head then: oh this is a ghoul......shit, and enemies usually see you 200 m away and start firing right way.

 

3 Following distance: they usually lag behind you, you get into a fight, 30 sec later they show up, or not show up at all, just teleport to you after the combat ends, using mod did help a bit in this, but they are still dumb af.

 

4 How dafuq they fall and sitting on the ground again? and I can't patch them up? 

 

Some of these I can fix with mod or myself, and the rest, I guess followers in Fallout 4 isn't much different from Skyrim, just there to be pretty, in some ways they are even worse than Skyrim.

[Eth4rlad]

I actually thought about reducing their followdistance in their followpackage and increasing the aggressiveness but then i realized there's not a single follower i liked enough to waste my time.

 

Anyway the AI behaviors and packages don't look that different compared to previous games, it's just seems like the AI simply is.....slower. Maybe it's updating slower, scripts are working on lower priority than in previous Games? I don't know. It's kind of odd but i couldn't whip up the motivation to investigate it.

[Kakabishan]

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11784/? is an excellent mod. You can customise hotkeys to set their AI package as passive/aggressive, use hotkeys to set them to hold position or go and also you can configure their distance to be set at close, medium or far. Give it a go, really did make a lot of the shitty headache inducing companion system manageable.

[darkconsole]

followers are not controlled by scripts, the ai packages are native code. part of the problem is the terrible nav meshing. if you ever go off-road they are like "well im alone and fucked i better run the long way around"

[bytion]

followers are not controlled by scripts, the ai packages are native code. part of the problem is the terrible nav meshing. if you ever go off-road they are like "well im alone and fucked i better run the long way around"

 

this........this is making me so mad 

[Scarlett]

Literally haven't experienced any of what you're talking about. 

 

1) Certain companions do better with certain weapons. For instance if you use Preston (don't) and give him a laser musket he will suck ass. However, if you give him a ballistic weapon he'll do just fine. (There is a mod that makes it so companions don't use ammo)

 

2) All my companions are fine, they attack when I attack.

 

3) Followers have a greater distance than before, which I like. However, I never thought of it as "lagging behind".

 

4) Give your companions better gear and they won't be downed as often.

[Nickolos1818]

I have learned to use the CK to alter the AI for followers.  My favorite companion so far is Cait ( she's irish and a red head, whats not to love?!)  I altered her combat variations to go from a shotgun to a Hunting Rifle, with the use of Molotov's and with DC's followers in front mod I didn't have to alter her package to be in front of me, mod does it for me.  Also I made a Dogmeat mod that lets me give him any type of explosive, I like using Mini Nukes, and setting him to be a kamikaze dog that runs into enemies if their are within a certain range of the PC.  I can use a stimpack to revive him and do it all over.  Only thing I have not been able to do is fix Cait's accuracy with the Hunting Rifle, even with a scope and mods on her rifle installed.

 

Also if anyone knows how to alter the AI package of a companion when the PC is in stealth, it would be greatly appreciated.

[skyrimsucks]

this is fucking why they made some npcs/companions immortal. they keep teleporting, falling and killing themselves in the process. that plus convinience to not bother with situations when certain actors are dead.

[Magicballs]

This was one of the first things I experienced with the game. Why, when my companion has a melee weapon equipped, will she continue to stand there awkwardly looking at me like a dog begging for food, even when I'm in a heated firefight! And good luck with them sparing that ammunition they use!! *NEVER* give them an automatic weapon, they'd happily waste 200 rounds on one enemy, be it radroach or mirelurk queen, I'm almost certain. They have no concept of ammo conservation, and this just does not add to the game's much needed immersion.

 

I wish they'd give a little more option to recalibrate their performance and behaviour, like how they did in previous games. The companions are not smarter, they are invariably worse.

[Halstrom]

Maybe one of your mods broke something, my follewers still work fine and if anything better than the New vegas and FO3 ones did.

[Jazzman]

No problems over here except one - broken legs after 'teleporting' which is utterly nonsense 'cause fast travel on the surface of the Commonwealth has nothing to do with Scotty's 'beam me there'...

[bytion]

Literally haven't experienced any of what you're talking about. 

 

1) Certain companions do better with certain weapons. For instance if you use Preston (don't) and give him a laser musket he will suck ass. However, if you give him a ballistic weapon he'll do just fine. (There is a mod that makes it so companions don't use ammo)

 

2) All my companions are fine, they attack when I attack.

 

3) Followers have a greater distance than before, which I like. However, I never thought of it as "lagging behind".

 

4) Give your companions better gear and they won't be downed as often.

 

1 Companions don't have any weapon preference,  they all have no perk or data to that(I checked in CK), yes giving a companion a better weapon will make them more powerful, but doesn't change the fact they suck ass in combats, Danse for example, he has a power armor so he doesn't take cover like the rest and shoot more, but his accuracy still suck like the rest of them, this can be fixed in CK, but companions like Danse or Cuire using the same combat AI as enemies will mess up in some ways.

 

2 Companion AI seems run at low priority in game, I use default unmodded game here to do the testing, it seems they scan enemies in fixed turn(don't know if it's the right word for it), if some enemies missed during their 1st scan, Companions won't attack them even they are right in front of them.

 

3 Companion usually lagging behind when nav mesh mess up, and then they teleport to you, causing another bug(falling bug and broken legs), it's not about gears they wear, but funny enough, I put 2 reduce 50% falling damage on them, they still have the broken legs bug sometimes, I went into CK find: you need 200% reduce falling damage to cancel the damage on NPC, even so, they still broken their legs, not because of falling, just a damn bug.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

::Hits furry head against wall:: This is one reason I don't use companion characters in any BGS game unless I have to. The AI has always been terrible, even going back to the days of Morrowind.

 

Any plans on the part of Bethesda to fix this and other issues? Or is their attitude still "modders will do it for us?"

[Jazzman]

1 Companions don't have any weapon preference,  they all have no perk or data to that(I checked in CK), yes giving a companion a better weapon will make them more powerful, but doesn't change the fact they suck ass in combats, Danse for example, he has a power armor so he doesn't take cover like the rest and shoot more, but his accuracy still suck like the rest of them, this can be fixed in CK, but companions like Danse or Cuire using the same combat AI as enemies will mess up in some ways.

[snip]

You really don't wanna see the AI seemingly popping up with the intelligence of you and me, the real challenge - the release of the genie in the bottle. Tried that in 2003, inter alia by modifying the scripted trigger range behavior and the result, the common experience in game, was devastating. Within weeks I got me more adversaries in the com than even God himself has ever seen. People, especially young people that rush into the terror of battle in Superman fashion don't like it when the AI appears to be more intelligent in combat than oneself until one has adapted to the new situation, finally. They died on the grid in numbers. I simply didn't take care of the consequences of the illusion created (the testers were all in their 30s), and the confusion of a great many a player was the inevitable result, at best. Makes me wonder what Mme Curie might have told me back then, probably sth. like 'go home ma chérie and make us a baguette in the meantime, s'il vous plaît'.

[Nazzzgul666]

 

1 Companions don't have any weapon preference,  they all have no perk or data to that(I checked in CK), yes giving a companion a better weapon will make them more powerful, but doesn't change the fact they suck ass in combats, Danse for example, he has a power armor so he doesn't take cover like the rest and shoot more, but his accuracy still suck like the rest of them, this can be fixed in CK, but companions like Danse or Cuire using the same combat AI as enemies will mess up in some ways.

[snip]

You really don't wanna see the AI seemingly popping up with the intelligence of you and me, the real challenge - the release of the genie in the bottle. Tried that in 2003, inter alia by modifying the scripted trigger range behavior and the result, the common experience in game, was devastating. Within weeks I got me more adversaries in the com than even God himself has ever seen. People, especially young people that rush into the terror of battle in Superman fashion don't like it when the AI appears to be more intelligent in combat than oneself until one has adapted to the new situation, finally. They died on the grid in numbers. I simply didn't take care of the consequences of the illusion created (the testers were all in their 30s), and the confusion of a great many a player was the inevitable result, at best. Makes me wonder what Mme Curie might have told me back then, probably sth. like 'go home ma chérie and make us a baguette in the meantime, s'il vous plaît'.

 

I admit, i wouldn't like the Ai with the intelligence of you and me, but... the intelligence of those "especially young people"? Probably still too easy

[gregathit]

 

followers are not controlled by scripts, the ai packages are native code. part of the problem is the terrible nav meshing. if you ever go off-road they are like "well im alone and fucked i better run the long way around"

 

this........this is making me so mad 

 

Complete agreement!!!  I can't tell you how many times I've been off roadin' then stopped, dropped to a crouch to snipe someone and ended up headshotting my own damn companion.........who magically teleported in front of me due to me pausing.  

 

I gave up on them.  They make great settlers!!!

[Outlast1]

Honestly they are better running your gulag settlements than as companions, even the robots you can build are piss poor. I built thos tri wheeled monsters with the rocket and gatling gun and he ended up blowing himself and me to pieces quick. I dont know how many times i ended up shooting my follower in the back of the head with my as50 antimaterial rifle. the only companion that seems to work (cough) is a protectron with laser hands lol as he so slow he dont get in the way and acts like a meat shield. imho your better off withou a companion.

[darkconsole]

Honestly they are better running your gulag settlements than as companions, even the robots you can build are piss poor. I built thos tri wheeled monsters with the rocket and gatling gun and he ended up blowing himself and me to pieces quick. I dont know how many times i ended up shooting my follower in the back of the head with my as50 antimaterial rifle. the only companion that seems to work (cough) is a protectron with laser hands lol as he so slow he dont get in the way and acts like a meat shield. imho your better off withou a companion.

 

combat wise as long as they were present i never had much issue with my robots. maybe you should try being nicer to them.

 

 

 

[Outlast1]

 

Honestly they are better running your gulag settlements than as companions, even the robots you can build are piss poor. I built thos tri wheeled monsters with the rocket and gatling gun and he ended up blowing himself and me to pieces quick. I dont know how many times i ended up shooting my follower in the back of the head with my as50 antimaterial rifle. the only companion that seems to work (cough) is a protectron with laser hands lol as he so slow he dont get in the way and acts like a meat shield. imho your better off withou a companion.

 

combat wise as long as they were present i never had much issue with my robots. maybe you should try being nicer to them.

 

 

 

 

maybe i could be nicer to them But but but I am the over boss....lol still companions are very undependable to me Maybe your kindness to them made them smarter ill go find cait and give her lots of mentats and love see if that works lol

 

 

[GrimReaper]

Followers seem to be on a tight leash that's attached to the player and I guess that's where most issues come from. Considering that followers in previous games had a tendency to simply charge in and aggro a whole camp of enemies the current situation seems to be preferable, albeit it just being a bandaid in the end.

[Jazzman]

Gentlemen! It is my job to keep you alive in the terror of battle, and I need your help to do that.

Since I don't have time to properly train you, I'm laying down three simple rules.

One: no one goes anywhere alone, ever. Two: everyone must maintain constant contact with the team.

Three: unexpected things are gonna happen. When they do, no one tries to be a hero. Understood?

 

The above rules have an impact on how the leader commands their squad on the march as well as in battle.

Never commanded the team members before, commanders, huh? Oh. Cha!

 

Aggro behavior is set on start and changeable by console command for each companion as you may see fit. Receptive for madness are especially the utterly confused Private Ryan Danse and trigger happy Miss Piper. The latter shows double ammo consumption in battle, though w/o being twice as effective, rather the opposite is the case. Never send a fuckin' academic to the vanguard, right? True is, companions have no clear weapon preference, given that they have ammo in the inventory. However, Mme Curie remarkably tends to use heavy melee stuff from her own, private lootings.

 

Good luck commanders. May the purified water bottle be with you.

[LukeDuke]

I hope there will be a mod like EFF for Skyrim where you can make them passive, so they will not block your view in combat or even start it (yes it can still happen sometimes). I have some mods to tweak their distance to me (which is too close in vanilla) so it's a little better.. 

P.S. It's not really a secret that AI sucks in Bethesda (TES & Fallout) games, especially for companions and it was like that for ages now...

[Benmc20]

Dayna Feyton (from Fusion City Rising mod) is better tha others. She don't go between you and your target and isn't bad at all for putting down nasty things.

[skeletor]

You what would solve this? Some sort of tactics like in Dragon Age: Origins.( especially the modded version) 

I would so love to set up my robots tactics. If only one enemy is present, that is X (radroach) and X amount of distance( 0-X meters) do not use the fking nuclear bomb or any explosive. This is why I dont play Inquisition, they gutted the tactics and companion ai became shit.

 

So many times I wanna check out my companions gear. You know by looking at them and circling around them. Nope they start moving because I moved. And they need to be at my 8 o'clock location.  Or I press E to talk. Nope fk u Im gonna walk away.

 

With some sort of tactics setup. If player activates action key on companion to talk. Companion stays the fuck in place. These are simple IF, THAN commands. I had C++ class way back in high school. Why is it so hard with game studios to use such commands with companion AI? Im no game programmer so, what do I know?..

[Gameplayer]

I cant remember how companions behaved in Fallout 3 and FNV.

 

In Skyrim I use AFT, and Im pretty sure it fixes a whole lot of their bad behavior....The thing is that um, I cant remember what that was either.

Though in Skyrim, I usually run with a companion and never regret that.

 

With Fallout 4 though I always find that Im tripping on companions while trying to move around like they are throwing themselves in front of my legs while I'm climbing the stairs in a firefight.  How did that happen you were behind me when I started up the stairs!  I need to dive for cover to avoid a grenade blast NOPE companion is suddenly standing in that doorway TOO fn bad.

 

My experience with the two games feels like night and day especially when traveling with a companion.

 

I cant imagine default companions being as bad in Skyrim as they are in Fallout 4....Im thinking Fallout 4 deserves an award or something for this.