Implications of lust

[Chase Roxand]

Since SexoutLust's inception, it hasn't really done much. I've had it force some scenarios on the player, but I'm wondering how it could be better implemented into the game and Sexout as a whole. Currently, the values for lust on the player and companions are in SCR, so accessing them from other mods isn't an issue.

 

I'd rather not force the player into anything with SexoutLust. If anything, I want to find better alternatives to what it currently does. What anyone else does with lust in their mods is their own business.

 

So? Ideas for SexoutLust? Ideas for how to use lust in other Sexout mods?

[sen4mi]

In my opinion, lust should be complicated.

 

In my opinion, there are three different kinds of lust:

 

One form of lust could be the "you are climbing the walls" which I think SexoutLust is intended to represent.

 

Another form of lust would be the sort of "sweet attraction to someone" which can be involved in relationship building. This is a different sort of feeling from the first, for some people anyways, and would build, or fall depending on how interactions progressed. This one could be difficult to simulate accurately and should perhaps instead be player controlled? (This form can easily build during a pleasant sexual encounter.)

 

Another form of lust would be "sexual readiness" (for males this would be "hardness", for females this would be "wetness"). This has its own forms of progression and I think should not be directly related to either of the other forms. (This form can easily build during a pleasant sexual encounter, and might also increase defensively, for females in an unpleasant sexual encounter. But, unlike the other forms, this mode of arousal should be short term.)

 

But that's just numerical values.

 

(Personally, I play with "forced masturbation" and "harsh effects" turned off, I am ambivalent about visual effects and I leave most everything else turned on and with time to max lust set very high. And, I will happily leave my character on "madness" if no suitable outlets exist. I think I mostly have this enabled for the messages it sometimes leaves on my screen.)

 

I would sometimes like to key dialog options to my lust levels (and this sometimes does happen already), but that's difficult to get right (in part because everyone has their own views about how dialog should progress).

[Menesh]

Not really a way to use lust, but I thought about "turn-ons" and "turn-offs" that would modify lust increase, or even decrease. The player would select a number of perks (maybe 2 each)- with the option of having them randomly assigned if desired- of situations their character considers a turn-on or turn-off.

Examples could be:

 

being drunk or high

being in combat

being close to (or talking to) ghouls or supermutants (or even other creatures)

being in proximity of prostitutes

etc...

[Halstrom]

Yeah well there is LustX in SCR too, if anyone wants to use it, I'm not sure it's implemented from Chases end though or tested.

 

The 3rd type of "Lust" refered to I prefoer to be called Arousal, there's a variable for it in SCR for the Player & major NPC's I had plans for it eventually, I've even allowed for an adiction effect from LustX

 

But Lust as Chase has implemented is more the need for sex than readyness for it as I understand.

[Chase Roxand]

Indeed, SexoutLust was designed as an animalistic drive. The other two kinds of "lust" that sen4mi mentioned would be tough to implement, due to them being very context sensitive. Plus, I'm not sure that they'd have many chances to improve gameplay.

 

Menesh, something like that could be implemented, but I think lust needs to play a better roll in gameplay first.

[Tonoma]

There seems to be two ways to role-play with sexout - copulate with anything or everything for no reason whatever (if that is role-playing), or have consequences and drives that roughly mimic what one would experience in a Fallout world. Your SexoutLust mod is one of the few role-playing mods that provides a motive for the female courier's sexual behavior (males less so). So I appreciate your continual improvement of this mod.

 

I like your implementation of player encounters when lust is high, and having negative effects for very high lust. High lust must have consequences and you have struck a good balance - there really are not many alternatives. The lust-induced encounters were a nice touch.

 

I use SexoutLust for the lust increase computations and corresponding effects and encounters. However, I have my own more complex lust decreases patch based on the type of sex (rape, coerced, consensual with orgasm, etc.) For example, orgasms decrease lust by a bit more than half while other types of sex have smaller decreases or may slightly increase it.

 

I use the lust value to award XP for sex. Lust below a certain threshold gives almost nothing for XP, but higher Lust gives higher XP's. Max XP increases are about one to two percent of the points needed for level advancement.

 

Regarding gameplay, I see lust as a counter-balance to disincentives for sex. Unfortunately except for pregnancy, so far we have few to no disincentives within Sexout (they are needed). Still, I mentally role-play that one-night-stands with strangers are dangerous (STD's, theft, rape, enslavement, pregnancy, angry girl/boy friend) until high lust overrides the Courier's caution. I suspect SexoutLust will only be useful to those who want the role-playing aspect.

 

 

Suggestions: To make it easier to use SexoutLust with potentially SexoutLust-friendly mods and/or patches (such as mine), perhaps SexoutLust should have separate quests for increasing lust and for decreasing lust. The Courier lust decrease should have a MCM slider for the lust decrease factor (and/or an MCM switch to simply disable decreases.) Similarly, store both the base-lust and the total-lust (i.e., lust with bonuses) in SCR.)

[DoctaSax]

A couple of ideas from a gameplay/immersion POV:

 

1. Negative or frozen lust: after being raped, your character's not likely to lust for sex all that much anymore. So it would be more immersive to call a freeze on lust increase for a couple of game days after.

(Unless the PC gets off on it, possibly determined by choosing some new perk that could be added to SCR, called "Submissive" or something.)

 

2. Maybe oral on females could increase lust rather than decrease it? At orgasm, lust would take a dip, but would overall still be higher than before. This to emulate the "warming-up" aspect of foreplay. (Well, you know what I mean.)

 

3. Speaking of orgasms: orgasms! There can be much more to them than characters flopping about after a certain amount of time - and it's obviously closely related to lust.

A certain amount of reduction in lust during a sex act could grant you orgasms (indeed: plural = possible) in the form of bonus spells (maybe some temporary boosts in agility/charisma/endurance; for males possibly a bump in sleepiness too ).

 

Related to that, initial lust and when the participants have orgasms could determine the duration of the sex act (best make that a toggleable MCM option). You can use the dftime variable or whatever it's called in the Sexout script as a base, make some calculations, and temporarily replace it with your outcome. Some dude with little stamina (endurance) would be pretty much done after coming once, ending the scene and possibly leaving the partner unfulfilled (causing a bad spell "unsatisfied" or something). Increased experience (experience also having little functionality atm) could counter that, so should be a counterbalancing part of the formula.

 

Receiving anal would be something you need to get used to first, before you have a chance at orgasm. Ie: tied in with anal exp. The first few times should probably cause some health damage to emulate pain, but that may be a little too far out of the scope of the mod.

 

And of course, non-rapey orgasms should probably cause a disposition boost.

 

4. I know clothing's a bit of a hobby horse of mine, but lust should definitely increase faster when wearing, or being around people wearing, sexy stuff, ie in SCR's clothing formlists pertaining to "sexy", "slutty", "lingerie", "opencrotch", "cleavage", "short skirt" etc. And slower with "plain" or powerarmor and other dull stuff.

 

Just throwing it out there.

[Halstrom]

Yeah I'd love if someone wrote a plugin that worked orgasm by arousal, arousal could be increased by wearing of plugs & sexy clothing it could be used as a trigger for rapists to jump you I was thinking of adding it to the fertility scripts later in pregnancy, but that could be a while off. Then what is needed is to determine the length of sex by the arousal levels or participants, it would likely end at the mael orgasm whether the female had orgasmed or not, this would mean lust for the female wouldn't be sated and would actually be left higher by the arousal.

[Chase Roxand]

Halstrom, does SCR include populated form lists of "sexy" clothing?

 

EDIT:

And thanks for the input so far, guys! I'll be using some of it for future revisions for sure.

[DoctaSax]

Halstrom' date=' does SCR include populated form lists of "sexy" clothing?

 

EDIT:

And thanks for the input so far, guys! I'll be using some of it for future revisions for sure.

[/quote']

 

Formlists related to opinions about clothing aren't populated to my knowledge, but the SCES functionality in SCR and sen4mi's mcm alternative let people add to them themselves, according to their own tastes - which is by far the better option, imo. (And I'm not just saying that to blow my own horn ).

 

I had a list of the ones that are used by SCES once, but a few things were renamed at the last moment so that list is no longer up to date. But if you have a look at the SexoutSClothingEvalDataEntry script in SCR, you'll see the formlists that are supported and descriptions in the comments. If that doesn't make sense, I'll type up a new list.

[Halstrom]

Halstrom' date=' does SCR include populated form lists of "sexy" clothing?

 

EDIT:

And thanks for the input so far, guys! I'll be using some of it for future revisions for sure.[/quote']

There are some populated formists for plugs I believe and I think I even had a list called something like "CausesArousalWhenWorn", or you if you want to write a quick script to check companions I can add it into SCR.

[KainsChylde]

Aren't a lot of mod-added armors and clothes based off of vanilla stuff? Is there a way to make a base rating for vanilla clothes/armors, and check against that base for new stuff?

[sen4mi]

Your SexoutLust mod is one of the few role-playing mods that provides a motive for the female courier's sexual behavior (males less so).

 

I had been thinking that the current implementation was modeled on male lust, instead of female lust.

[Tonoma]

Chase: A few relatively simple suggestions for improvement

 

(1) Maybe the three trigger point lust values should be SCR values so other mods can adjust based on situation (I would use that feature since I consider the first trigger to be about 10 points too low and the last one a few points high).

 

(2) Right now SexoutLust lacks a penalty of some kind for low lust - not sure but maybe adding an optional small hit to charisma since the Courier would be doing less unconscious flirting. Or look at it as a small penalty for too-frequent sex (always having low lust).

 

(3) A poster mentioned a negative lust might be a good idea - meaning a temporary gross aversion to sex - I agree (for cases such as rape or other trauma); allow other mods to drop lust to perhaps as low as -100 (i.e., don't clip it at zero, but rather -100). Worst case the negative values would not be used, but available for future use. Of course SexoutLust would then decrement lust only to a value of zero and not lower, and if lust is below zero, not decrement it at all.

 

 

By the way, to solve the problem of viewing the current lust value (sexout.lust), I simply created a short simple quest script that shows a message (ShowMessage) when I hit the keypad-enter key (adapted from CIPSCIS's keypress example/tutorial.) That way I did not have to mess around with the HUD solutions which in my case did not integrate as fully as I wanted. Now I only view the lust value when needed.

[Tonoma]

 

I had been thinking that the current implementation was modeled on male lust' date=' instead of female lust.

[/quote']

 

Chase recently added companions - mostly females - to being lust-driven (remember nympho Cassidy) - so SexoutLust is probably intended to be sex neutral.

 

Your comment of turning off the harsh effects (surprised me and) reminded me that FONV is a game that must unrealistically simplify and amplify effects, rewards, and penalties. If lust is not simple, it will conflict with components of too many other mods, or just not fit in the FONV world. Most mods will not use SexoutLust lust anyway, but a few should, and players can adapt their own quick patches to it (as I do). So lust needs to be a single simplified concept that has exaggerated rewards and penalties. (Right now the reward is not having the penalty - which works fine.)

 

Chase has already stated that he views lust to be a primal motivating have-sex factor. It is just a number that triggers game effects and/or possibilities (available to other mods). That is spot-on as it should be. It has increasing (optional) penalties for lust getting too high; they are simple but in good balance for this mod.

 

On your point re possibly male-centric SexoutLust, also consider: Probably few male-Courier players have any reason or inclination to bypass sex opportunities and would therefore rarely trigger harsh lust penalties. So I do not see SexoutLust really affecting the male-courier player as much without the introduction of much more complexity (not recommended).

 

When I do play, my play-style is a female "The Perils of Pauline" Courier - getting into and out of unwanted situations from Tryouts and a few other mods (plus one or two to satisfy SexoutLust urgencies). SexoutLust provides the motivation for consensual sex outside of those mods. My Courier wants to avoid rape, pregnancy, and (imaginary) STD's, but is subject to nature's subconscious trick that ensures procreation. SexoutLust's visual harsh effect is aggravating enough for my female-courier to quickly bend to natures call (desire), usually well before the visual penalty appears.)

 

Turning on the harsh visual effects will cause you to think seriously about having, seeking, or skipping sex. (I do not consider the visual effect as actually occurring to the courier, but rather occurring to the display screen to punish me the player for not keeping the courier's lust lower - a gameplay feature since reality is hard to simulate in a playable manner (e.g. FONV healing/health.)

[Halstrom]

We've still got to implement the LustX drug in SCR too at sometime, I think it's all functional at the SCR end, just needs to be added at Chases end. In SCR theres an ActorVAR quest for all the major actors and this contains variables for DrugLustX & Arousal, LustX is set up the same as FertX, BunX etc, it basically it can range from 0-1000 in the amount in your system and is cumaltive, so a LustX needle would increase your level by 80 somethings, which would take 80hours to disperse fading to zero, but a second needle taking you too 160 somethings would mean 160hours but Sexout Lust would clip the effect at 100 somethings.

I also have TranqX there too, I will implement later as a Sleep / Drowziness drug. I have set the system up so a new Drug could be a combination of existing drugs too, so you could make darts as combos of FertX / LustX / TranqX.

[Chase Roxand]

I'll add LustX support for the next update, Halstrom. That also means that I should include a temporary lust tracker token, so that using LustX on NPCs would actually do something.

 

Like Tonoma said, SexoutLust was designed to be sex neutral. I'd like to make it include more male content, but I avoid writing male dialog like the plague.

 

I don't want to implement arousal, but I'll try to make perks that affect lust. Some of which will affect gameplay.

 

Cutting/stopping lust from rape is a must-add. I'll have it cut the current lust level by 20 and allow it to dip down to -100, and prevent any rising lust for a day. However, I don't want to add a penalty for low lust. I want that to be a 'normal' state. The scale from low lust to high shouldn't be good to bad. Rather, 'normal' to 'different', unless you're near maximum lust. Being horny isn't an impediment, it's a state of mind.

 

Also, I'm considering replacing the force-sex-conversation mechanic.

[fritz_t_coyote]

Another place for lust to have an impact: Duration of sex act for males. As in very horny = extremely brief sex. And possibly a partner going aggro!

 

Also - range of response choices based on lust?

 

For males: Extremely low lust might cause only the 'perform oral on partner' position option to be available?

 

For females: very high lust may result in much lower standards? Maybe fewer response choices in hookups ("you are uglier than a radscorpion, but I am too horny to care")? very low lust might make for more insulting hookup responses, and perhaps a higher likelihood of 'insult-reaction' rape?

 

Taken a step further, low lust in a slave could make it harder to answer with willing submission responses, which can make for an even more painful enslavement.

 

Dark Territory Ahead

 

 

This starts to divert into 'broken slave', where either a natural tendency to submission or a broken will leads the slave crave degradation and abuse. Again, would be a shift of dialog choices based on submission, with more submission either directly increasing lust, or accelerating the buildup of lust, which would be self-reinforcing, the more 'addicted to submitting' the character becomes, the harder it becomes to break the cycle. Once 'owned, body and soul', consensual sex is less satisfying, and only enslavement, abuse or rape can do the job. Maybe even after leaving or escaping a 'you feel compelled to return to your master' quest might be triggered by extremely high lust?

 

[sen4mi]

Your comment of turning off the harsh effects (surprised me and) reminded me that FONV is a game that must unrealistically simplify and amplify effects' date=' rewards, and penalties.

[/quote']

 

I have had to turn that off in part because I did not want to limit myself to the parts of the game where sex is readily available. It's sort of fun to play "subconsciously taking risks and flirting with guys you do not actually like because of how you feel" but I have not played a lot of DLC nor other content (I think I started this configuration mode when I was playing AWOP content). But, also because that's just now how biology works -- when you get into a bad personal state, you typically adapt to it. Also, sexuality, and its sensations are based on change: The constant stuff becomes difficult for us to perceive.

 

Also, I do not like how lust drops to nothing in unsatisfying situations.

 

Anyways, I agree with you that it's a crude and simple measure -- and I like simple. I just wish I had some way of telling the game "I like this" and "ick". Even if it only changes my character's lust number.

[Halstrom]

In SCR I have a counter system that is going to track number of rapes for the Player & Major NPC's and also Animal/Mutant etc sex too, I haven't really done anything with it or even tested it, I suspect it may be counting some stuff ok now, just need to make a plugin to read it. Basically I have a file of variables for all Companion NPC's and the player, can easily add more variables for different stuff if needed.

 

 

scn SexoutS0ActorVAR

 

; *** Declare Variables

 

float fSlutRating

float fWhoreRating

float fOutfitSexiness

 

int iIsMale

int iIsFemale

int iHasDick

int iHasBreasts

int iHasVagina

 

float fLust

float fArousal

float fFertLevelPerc

float fFertCyclePerc

float fFertPerc

int iSemenTotal

float fSemenTotal

float fPregChance

float fPregSize

float fPregStagePerc

float fCurrBellySize

float fCurrBreastSize

float fBreastMilk

float fBreastMilkLevel

float fBreastMilkMax

float fMutationChance

float fMiscarryChance

 

float fBaseBellySize

float fBaseBreastSize

float iVaginaSize

float iDickSize

float iMouthSize

float fSexSkill

 

float fDrugFertX

float fDrugBunX

float fDrugBunAway

float fDrugLustX

float fDrugTranq

float fDrugAlcohol

float fDrugDope

float fDrugLevelFert

 

float fCrimeNCR

float fCrimeLegion

float fCrimePG

float fCrimeBOS

float fCrimeFiends

float fCrimeEnclave

float fCrimeKhans

float fCrimeKings

float fCrimeBoomers

float fCrimeOmertas

float fCrimeWGS

 

float fSecretFactionRelationNCR

float fSecretFactionRelationLegion

float fSecretFactionRelationPG

float fSecretFactionRelationBOS

float fSecretFactionRelationFiends

float fSecretFactionRelationEnclave

float fSecretFactionRelationKhans

float fSecretFactionRelationKings

float fSecretFactionRelationBoomers

float fSecretFactionRelationOmertas

float fSecretFactionRelationWGS

 

float fSecretFactionRankNCR

float fSecretFactionRankLegion

float fSecretFactionRankPG

float fSecretFactionRankBOS

float fSecretFactionRankFiends

float fSecretFactionRankEnclave

float fSecretFactionRankKhans

float fSecretFactionRankKings

float fSecretFactionRankBoomers

float fSecretFactionRankOmertas

float fSecretFactionRankWGS

 

int iPrefVag

int iPrefAnal

int iPrefOral

int iPrefForPain

int iPrefForBigDicks

int iPrefForFemales

int iPrefForMales

int iPrefForInsects

int iPrefForMonsters

int iPrefForCanines

int iPrefForMachines

 

int iCountRaper

int iCountRaped

int iCountMasturbate

int iCountToys

int iCountNumOfOffSpring

int iCountOrgasmWhenFucked

int iCountOrgasmWhenRaped

int iCountOrgasmWhenRaping

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedMale

int iCountVaginalRapedByMale

int iCountVaginalRapedMale

int iCountAnalFuckedMale

int iCountAnalRapedByMale

int iCountAnalRapedMale

int iCountOralFuckedMale

int iCountOralRapedByMale

int iCountOralRapedMale

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedFemale

int iCountVaginalRapedByFemale

int iCountVaginalRapedFemale

int iCountAnalFuckedFemale

int iCountAnalRapedByFemale

int iCountAnalRapedFemale

int iCountOralFuckedFemale

int iCountOralRapedByFemale

int iCountOralRapedFemale

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedGhoul

int iCountVaginalRapedByGhoul

int iCountVaginalRapedGhoul

int iCountAnalFuckedGhoul

int iCountAnalRapedByGhoul

int iCountAnalRapedGhoul

int iCountOralFuckedGhoul

int iCountOralRapedByGhoul

int iCountOralRapedGhoul

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedSuperMutant

int iCountVaginalRapedBySuperMutant

int iCountVaginalRapedSuperMutant

int iCountAnalFuckedSuperMutant

int iCountAnalRapedBySuperMutant

int iCountAnalRapedSuperMutant

int iCountOralFuckedSuperMutant

int iCountOralRapedBySuperMutant

int iCountOralRapedSuperMutant

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedInsect

int iCountVaginalRapedByInsect

int iCountVaginalRapedInsect

int iCountAnalFuckedInsect

int iCountAnalRapedByInsect

int iCountAnalRapedInsect

int iCountOralFuckedInsect

int iCountOralRapedByInsect

int iCountOralRapedInsect

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedMonster

int iCountVaginalRapedByMonster

int iCountVaginalRapedMonster

int iCountAnalFuckedMonster

int iCountAnalRapedByMonster

int iCountAnalRapedMonster

int iCountOralFuckedMonster

int iCountOralRapedByMonster

int iCountOralRapedMonster

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedCanine

int iCountVaginalRapedByCanine

int iCountVaginalRapedCanine

int iCountAnalFuckedCanine

int iCountAnalRapedByCanine

int iCountAnalRapedCanine

int iCountOralFuckedCanine

int iCountOralRapedByCanine

int iCountOralRapedCanine

 

int iCountVaginalFuckedMachine

int iCountVaginalRapedByMachine

int iCountVaginalRapedMachine

int iCountAnalFuckedMachine

int iCountAnalRapedByMachine

int iCountAnalRapedMachine

int iCountOralFuckedMachine

int iCountOralRapedByMachine

int iCountOralRapedMachine

 

 

[zippy57]

int iCountRaper

int iCountRaped

I think Sexout already counts these two.

[Halstrom]

int iCountRaper

int iCountRaped

I think Sexout already counts these two.

Ah it does too. And some of the other stuff I have too. Hmm will think about that, as I like to keep everything in the same place. I'm not sure how many mods are using the Sexout counters. Both systems should run in parallel with the same count if all went well.

[afa]

Knocking lust to -100 after rape and won't increase for a day sounds...useful?

It sounds useful when you are planning to head into an area for extended period of time but don't want to have the harsh effect kicking in.

[iron_jack]

I would think that negative lust - which can only be achieved by events like rape - could emulate something akin to depression (stat penalties) and revulsion (different/stronger negative responses to sexual propositions). The depression bit could be handled within SexoutLust, though obviously the dialog changes would have to be made to whichever mod they're in, not Lust itself.

 

Anyway, regarding the depression bit - this means that just having a lot of sex/low lust all the time wouldn't penalize the player (which I gather Chase is trying to avoid), but negative values (caused by rape etc) would.

[Chase Roxand]

Good news, everyone! I'm implementing several of the suggestions made in this topic (and others). Thank you so much for all of the input! SexoutLust v6.0 will be a doozy.

 

Halstrom, I'll be including an orgasm script that will replace the default Sexout timer. Should I have it go by SCR's "arousal" variables or would you rather add a new variable and have me use that? Could you also include an iIsEnslaved? And how are the "iPref" variables intended to work?

Oh, and all this might mean that some changes should be done to your pregnancy scripts.

 

EDIT:

Also, I'd like to encourage my fellow modders to include extra dialog, depending on lust, when/if it makes sense. An alternate line or two of dialog doesn't take long and makes a big difference for immersion.

 

EDIT2:

Oh, and guys, throw any suggestions for lust-related perks at me. Everything from personal preferences that would influence your character's lust level to perks that change gameplay depending on lust/sex.