Content Consumer's Alternate Starts

[Content Consumer]

v10 is up. Changelog here.

Basically, nothing much changed - a few bugfixes, and expanded the Aspiring Mage start a bit.

[Content Consumer]

BUG NOTE:

There appears to be a problem with a couple of DLC cells and this mod. I'm not sure how or when it happened, but somehow I managed to delete the Moldering Ruins cell entirely, and there may also be access bugs or cell errors with Vahlok's Tomb and Volkihar Keep.

 

I have no idea how, or when, this happened, but my guess would be it's been around since version 1.

This means that any vanilla quests (probably radiant quests, i.e. dawnguard "go kill vampires here" or jarl "kill bandits here" type quests) that reference the Moldering Ruins location will not be able to be completed.

 

I've been struggling with TES5Edit for a couple of hours here, trying to fix it, and all of my efforts are in vain - in fact, I've been making it progressively worse (my latest attempt led to the Expectant Mother start having two doors that lead into it, one from the Moldering Ruins and one from Solstheim, which I had hitherto believed to be completely impossible, since the CK cannot actually do that. Or so I thought...).

 

I haven't extensively tested Vahlok's Tomb or Volkihar Castle yet. Those two problems may be more recent, and it is possible that v9 will not have these issues.

 

I'm at a complete loss here. Deleting all of my edits with TES5Edit only seems to completely remove the cell from the game entirely, rather than revert it back to vanilla state, which is what should be happening. There are two possible causes:

 

1. The very nature of time and space itself has been warped by CCAS, leading to a fundamental rewrite of the laws of nature and, as a side effect, breaking some Skyrim stuff.

2. I don't know what I'm doing.

 

I am currently leaning toward the latter explanation as the most reasonable one.

 

At any rate, I have absolutely no desire to start work over again from scratch - the Expectant Mother start was introduced back in version 0, beta 5, for example. Redoing everything I've done since then is completely out of the question. Until I can figure this damn thing out, just note that the Moldering Ruins are going to be inaccessible, and there may also be problems with Vahlok's Tomb and Volkihar Castle. I'll test those two places out and edit this post when I've come to come conclusions.

 

EDIT: It appears that whatever I did to Vahlok's Tomb and Volkihar Castle is minor. That is, I can't find anything wrong in either place... so I guess those are okay. I'll still try to clean them up, but that's on the back burner.

Right now the major problem is with the Moldering Ruins. This is not a game-breaking bug, but it can be very annoying.

Somehow I deleted the vanilla cell and then made a duplicate copy of it, so I'm thinking I might just reset the door markers and make a quick workaround. This may or may not conflict with other mods that also alter that cell, or its exterior worldspace.

 

EDIT: Here's a quick patch. This sets up the door markers for the Moldering Ruins. I haven't tested extensively, but I believe this will also work with radiant quests that target the Moldering Ruins. Time will tell.

ccas v10 patch for moldering ruins.7z

[karlpaws]

 

I think that the werewolves of Frostmoon Crag would be perfect actually. Haha sorry I just wondered what the dragon idea would be like. It was just a thought, but yes I look forward to more updates!

 

 

 

Now that I think about it, I might need to make the player a werewolf to enslave to them. They get hostile to non-werewolves, and I'm pretty sure it's not a faction thing but a race thing... so even if you're enslaved to one, the others might be hostile to you anyway.

 

I could either:

• Force a race change on the player when using that start, which might introduce some minor bugs (not sure about that) and possibly mess with the Companions questline (also not sure about that).
• Edit the vanilla script in the trigger and remove the check, which will almost certainly introduce some bugs with those werewolves there, but those bugs will propagate across all games, whether you use the start or not, not to mention editing something that may also have been edited by other mods (such as USKP/USLEEP), but it won't interfere with the Companions at all.
• Create a new location, kind of like how I did it with the Expectant Mother and Aspiring Mage scenarios, with new NPCs that are werewolves, and enslave you directly there. This will probably not have any bugs, and it won't mess with anything in the vanilla game or other mods much, if at all. The disadvantage here is that it's a bit more work.

I'm leaning toward the third option - create a new thing from scratch. But it'll probably have to wait a while.

 

 

I kinda think some other mod was doing something or another related to werewolf slavery and the "there isn't a werewolf cave" problem came up there as well. Nothing was really decided for that mod, that I remember or that came up while I was following it, so making your own might be the best.

 

If you don't care about safe storage (like the wolf, troll and bear starts), you might pick a cave or three, spawn the player and a few werewolves in a custom faction and let the werewolves clear out the cave.  Story could be they ran out of food in the last place and had to move, moved to avoid hunters / Silver Hand, got run out of the last pack or were expanding...

 

Potentially you can make use of another "player house" mod that adds a mini world space / cave / valley kind of place, perhaps clone the area around fort Dawnguard?

 

******

 

There are other mods that let you become a werewolf early and it does not seem to bother the Companions quests at all. I am not sure if there is no check when you should become a werewolf, because the game expects you cannot be one then, so why check?  I think the mod ESF Companions supposedly lets you tell someone you're a werewolf early, too.

 

[Kestrel77]

i have a problem with all path, if i choose something and go to sleep in bed ,location not loading and if i wait about 30sec my character remains in cell:(  

[Fredfish]

Some mods that chnage Conversations seems to cause this, If you have JUGS installed, try removing it.

 

[Kestrel77]

Some mods that chnage Conversations seems to cause this, If you have JUGS installed, try removing it.

k i will try

[Content Consumer]

i have a problem with all path, if i choose something and go to sleep in bed ,location not loading and if i wait about 30sec my character remains in cell:(  

 

Consider reading the OP, where it talks about bugs, conflicts, and troubleshooting.

[Kestrel77]

 

Some mods that chnage Conversations seems to cause this, If you have JUGS installed, try removing it.

k i will try

 

i remove jugs and works thx

[PubliusNV]

My last two starts were done with this mod, and I've run into a couple of problems in Windhelm that I hadn't ever seen before.  Now I'm not blaming this mod, I had added 4 new mods before those starts, so I think it's probably one of them: CC Alternate Starts, Sexlab Stories, Expanded Towns and Cities, and Complete Crafting Overhaul Redone.

 

The problems I've seen are:

 

1. Silda the Unseen in Windhelm is an expert trainer in Pickpocket, yet even though my skill level is 15, when I try to train with her she says she can't teach me any more.

2. The Blood on the Ice quest stalls at stage 60, I have to use a setstage command to advance it to 70 and then to 90, after which it can be completed correctly.  Dialogue options that are supposed to appear at those stages do not appear (example, there are no options to talk to Jorlief about the strange amulet you found in Hjerim).

 

Is there a way to use TES5Edit or other utility to find out which mods are affecting Silda or that quest?  Mod Organizer doesn't show any conflicts, so I'm wondering how you start debugging stuff like this.

[Fredfish]

I assume you have SkyUI? If so, open the console and click on the NPC, it might show you the last mod that changed her.

[Content Consumer]

My last two starts were done with this mod, and I've run into a couple of problems in Windhelm that I hadn't ever seen before.  Now I'm not blaming this mod, I had added 4 new mods before those starts, so I think it's probably one of them: CC Alternate Starts, Sexlab Stories, Expanded Towns and Cities, and Complete Crafting Overhaul Redone.

 

The problems I've seen are:

 

1. Silda the Unseen in Windhelm is an expert trainer in Pickpocket, yet even though my skill level is 15, when I try to train with her she says she can't teach me any more.

2. The Blood on the Ice quest stalls at stage 60, I have to use a setstage command to advance it to 70 and then to 90, after which it can be completed correctly.  Dialogue options that are supposed to appear at those stages do not appear (example, there are no options to talk to Jorlief about the strange amulet you found in Hjerim).

 

Is there a way to use TES5Edit or other utility to find out which mods are affecting Silda or that quest?  Mod Organizer doesn't show any conflicts, so I'm wondering how you start debugging stuff like this.

 

CCAS doesn't directly touch Silda the Unseen or Blood on the Ice at all. The only thing it does in Windhelm is add two startmarkers, one to each inn. That could be causing a conflict with Expanded Towns and Cities, but even then I highly doubt it.

 

Blood on the Ice is a particularly troublesome quest (for me, anyway) - lots of bugs and points where the quest just won't advance. With or without USKP, for that matter.

 

I can't see any reason Sexlab Stories, CCAS, or Complete Crafting Overhaul Redone would be causing you any problems. My guess would be a problem with Expanded Towns and Cities, but that's just a guess - I don't use it, so I can't say for sure. I don't use Complete Crafting Overhaul either, but just from the title it doesn't sound like it'd do anything like that.

 

If you open a mod in TES5Edit, then right-click the mod and select "apply filter for cleaning," after a few seconds the contents of the mod should light up with green, yellow, and red highlights. That can help, but you don't even really need to do that much - just open the mod with Tes5Edit, and check through everything it does and see if it affects Blood on the Ice quest (MS11 and MS11b) and see if it makes any changes.

 

Unfortunately, even then it's not always obvious - sometimes a mod will do something that will introduce no obvious conflicts or errors, yet still have a conflict with other mods. Dialogue mods are notorious for that - Skyrim's engine is not really set up for any sort of dialogue overhauls, and certainly not for any two mods that add dialogue to work together, particularly those that add dialogue to all NPCs. If you are having trouble with Silda's offering training, it could be the direct actions of a mod, or it could be that her dialogue for it is getting overwritten in the background, entirely unintentionally, by a mod or combination of mods.

For example, DYKWIA adds a lot of dialogue to various NPCs, and that introduces bugs that TES5Edit simply cannot find with the interaction between that and some other mods (like Birds of Skyrim, for example). The stuff for DYKWIA that affects the Riften guards will conflict with Guard Dialogue Overhaul mod. And so on.

 

My suggestion would be to go through your load order and find every mod that:

1. Alters Windhelm in any way (CCAS is one, and it sounds like Expanded Towns and Cities is definitely another)

2. Alters Silda the Unseen

3. Alters trainer dialogue

4. Alters global dialogues or adds dialogues to all NPCs (such as DYKWIA or Sexlab Dialogues)

5. Alters vanilla quests in any way (such as Sexlab Solutions or USKP)

Once you've identified these, turn them off one at a time and see if the problem goes away. Of course, turning them off can also make new bugs (and probably will), but at least you'd have a definitive cause.

 

However... to be clear, I'm tentatively laying the blame here on Expanded Towns and Cities. It might work fine on its own, or it might be buggy, or it might be fine except it interacts poorly with another mod. But it sounds like that's the only one you've added recently that would be causing problems like that.

I assume you have SkyUI? If so, open the console and click on the NPC, it might show you the last mod that changed her.

 

Which is great, if the last mod that changed her is the mod that's at fault.

 

But yeah, I keep forgetting about doing that. It's a goldmine for figuring out where problems come from.

[PubliusNV]

I assume you have SkyUI? If so, open the console and click on the NPC, it might show you the last mod that changed her.

 

It mentions (something like lastbasechange) AOS.esp, which is Audio Overhaul for Skyrim, and I've been running with that for a long time before I saw this problem.  So thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that's it.

 

[Mister E]

Soooo...the first post and download page both say that you need Sexlab Stories Devious to do the novice of Dibella start, but even though I have that it does not show up at the statue of Mara. Is this a problem on my end?

[karlpaws]

I have CCO and ETaC though I don't think I have talked to Silda or done Blood on the Ice with CCs LAL and Stories.

 

Blood on the Ice is very buggy though, and for some reason lately the first time I visit Windhelm, they have all been in the cemetary ready to start it, when it should not start till your third visit (iirc). Blood and its tie-in to Hjerim is why I read a lot of mods saying they do not touch it as a player home or let you get it early.  Arthmoor's LAL base I think excludes it for that very reason (though you can start a home owner of any other kind.)

 

ETaC doesn't change interior Windhelm, and I think it doesn't touch the exterior either. AFAIK, it just does the minor holds and other settlements like Ivarstead, Shor's Stone, Riverwood, etc. Morthal, Falkreath and such are other optional ESPs you can activate if you want.  Morthal has an issue for me, I think there is a mesh or something not quite right, because I'll get an odd visual glitch walking the right direction and looking the right way, and sometimes CTD just walking into town.  Except for some extra NPCs that ETaC adds in places, it does not touch any other NPCs. (mostly just new houses to fill out a town, and the NPCs that go with the houses and shops.   It would be really nice with Oblivion's radiant system that let random NPCs stop and have conversations with each other).

 

Not that I'd know anything, but putting a marker Inside an inn shouldn't affect anything outside, says logic.

[Content Consumer]

Soooo...the first post and download page both say that you need Sexlab Stories Devious to do the novice of Dibella start, but even though I have that it does not show up at the statue of Mara. Is this a problem on my end?

That should actually read Sexlab Stories, not Devious. I keep making that mistake. 

Try Stories instead. Then if it doesn't show up, that's a problem on my end.

I believe that only the Milk Farm and the Necromancer's Pet scenarios require Devious.

 

 

Not that I'd know anything, but putting a marker Inside an inn shouldn't affect anything outside, says logic.

Hmm... "logic" and "Bethesda" don't seem to go together well...

[Mister E]

 

Soooo...the first post and download page both say that you need Sexlab Stories Devious to do the novice of Dibella start, but even though I have that it does not show up at the statue of Mara. Is this a problem on my end?

That should actually read Sexlab Stories, not Devious. I keep making that mistake. 

Try Stories instead. Then if it doesn't show up, that's a problem on my end.

I believe that only the Milk Farm and the Necromancer's Pet scenarios require Devious.

Then that sounds like a problem on your end, since I have both regular Sexlab Stories and Sexlab Stories Devious.

[PubliusNV]

I have CCO and ETaC though I don't think I have talked to Silda or done Blood on the Ice with CCs LAL and Stories.

 

Blood on the Ice is very buggy though, and for some reason lately the first time I visit Windhelm, they have all been in the cemetary ready to start it, when it should not start till your third visit (iirc). Blood and its tie-in to Hjerim is why I read a lot of mods saying they do not touch it as a player home or let you get it early.  Arthmoor's LAL base I think excludes it for that very reason (though you can start a home owner of any other kind.)

 

ETaC doesn't change interior Windhelm, and I think it doesn't touch the exterior either. AFAIK, it just does the minor holds and other settlements like Ivarstead, Shor's Stone, Riverwood, etc. Morthal, Falkreath and such are other optional ESPs you can activate if you want.  Morthal has an issue for me, I think there is a mesh or something not quite right, because I'll get an odd visual glitch walking the right direction and looking the right way, and sometimes CTD just walking into town.  Except for some extra NPCs that ETaC adds in places, it does not touch any other NPCs. (mostly just new houses to fill out a town, and the NPCs that go with the houses and shops.   It would be really nice with Oblivion's radiant system that let random NPCs stop and have conversations with each other).

 

Not that I'd know anything, but putting a marker Inside an inn shouldn't affect anything outside, says logic.

 

I tried disabling ETaC in my current game and going back to Silda, and she still couldn't teach anything.  In order to test that correctly I should have started a new game, which I'll probably do when I get the time.

 

I have to agree that Blood on the Ice is buggy, judging just from the long list of bugs on the UESP wiki.

 

[Content Consumer]

 

 

Soooo...the first post and download page both say that you need Sexlab Stories Devious to do the novice of Dibella start, but even though I have that it does not show up at the statue of Mara. Is this a problem on my end?

That should actually read Sexlab Stories, not Devious. I keep making that mistake. 

Try Stories instead. Then if it doesn't show up, that's a problem on my end.

I believe that only the Milk Farm and the Necromancer's Pet scenarios require Devious.

Then that sounds like a problem on your end, since I have both regular Sexlab Stories and Sexlab Stories Devious.

 

I just checked my conditions, and it looks like that one uses the Sisterhood of Dibella instead (looking for SexLab_DibellaCult.esp).

I honestly don't remember if that's how it should be though... I thought it was just Stories that was required. But it's hard to imagine me putting in a condition like that without it being a real one...

I'd ask skyrimll, but not for a week or so - out of town again.

In the meantime, install Sisterhood of Dibella. That should do it... and it may actually be the real requirement.

Sorry I can't be more precise, but in this case I know I fucked up, I just don't know in which way.

 

EDIT: See what you get when you actually read the OP? Misinformation, bad instructions, and unnecessary busywork. 

[Mister E]

When I first saw that start I thought it sounded neat, especially since it didn't require the Sisterhood of Dibella mod (Which I've never used as most of the custom outfits are CBBE and I use UNP). I suppose it make more sense that it does and was a simple typo though. Oh well!

[valcon767]

ok the sister hood start does work  with sisterhood of dibella mod installed

 

overall very nice work

 

edit follows

 

had to retest on version 10

 

there is a possible bug with bandit honeypot start

 

when entering realm sometimes the gate bandits are close enough to trigger combat and when surrendering to them it acts as though

I have defeat/devious captures installed (I don't but have used it in past)

I don't think there is anything you can do about the bandits location though.....not sure why it acts as if devious captures is running

(started a brand new game to make sure I had nothing possibly left over that could cause it)

work around is very simple at least ... just agree to the named bandit's request.

 

other issue (no action on your part required)  if you have SOT Genesis or SD Cages installed make sure they are NOT activated for the bandit honeypot start (if they are you will be in a fight for sure) .. all player has to do is not enable them in their MCM until after you have left the camp and it's surrounding area for the first time.

 

[valcon767]

started playing and had an idea I just had to come post <eg>

 

for another start how about a prison overhaul start (POP/Raven's Beak Prison)

 

you are a captured criminal (in whichever city) that when you use the bed it teleports you to right in front of a city guard with a decent bounty ..1100 gold?? and let POP or Raven's Beak Prison run it from there.

 

just an idea for your consideration.

 

[Bert Goldsteen]

just tried out the oblivion-start. it´s just plane awesome, heck, there are story mods with less tension

[Content Consumer]

 

there is a possible bug with bandit honeypot start

 

when entering realm sometimes the gate bandits are close enough to trigger combat and when surrendering to them it acts as though

I have defeat/devious captures installed (I don't but have used it in past)

I don't think there is anything you can do about the bandits location though.....not sure why it acts as if devious captures is running

(started a brand new game to make sure I had nothing possibly left over that could cause it)

work around is very simple at least ... just agree to the named bandit's request.

 

other issue (no action on your part required)  if you have SOT Genesis or SD Cages installed make sure they are NOT activated for the bandit honeypot start (if they are you will be in a fight for sure) .. all player has to do is not enable them in their MCM until after you have left the camp and it's surrounding area for the first time.

When starting, you are added to the unique faction that exists for those bandits - I think it was something like "dunrobbersgorgebanditfaction" or similar.

That should mean the bandits will not attack you unless you just ignore Gerast and leave the shed.

Unless you're talking about escaping through the underground, and coming out in the water? There's not much I can do about that. If you don't agree to Gerast's demands, and you leave the area (either by exiting the shack or by escaping through the tunnel), the bandits will see you as an enemy.

Agreeing to Gerast's demands should actually leave you as a member of that faction... so then you can leave unharmed, and theoretically return at any time and the bandits won't ever be hostile (except for the blasted guy on switch duty, which is another vanilla thing I can't fix).

I'll put a note in the OP about SD Cages and Genesis. Note: Populated Skyrim mods, or any mod that adds NPCs to the game world, may conflict with some of these scenarios.

 

started playing and had an idea I just had to come post <eg>

 

for another start how about a prison overhaul start (POP/Raven's Beak Prison)

 

you are a captured criminal (in whichever city) that when you use the bed it teleports you to right in front of a city guard with a decent bounty ..1100 gold?? and let POP or Raven's Beak Prison run it from there.

 

just an idea for your consideration.

Seems a rather convoluted way to send the player to prison.

On the other hand, it might be the easiest way, unless Raven's Beak Prison or Prison Overhaul have any modevents I can use.

I'll add it to my to-do list.

 

just tried out the oblivion-start. it´s just plane awesome, heck, there are story mods with less tension

Glad you like it! I was worried that it would be too difficult. I had some serious trouble getting through (I usually play on Expert, but I tested on Master). I found that not even trying to fight is usually the best way - just run through whenever possible, and make good use of healing spells.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I am away but still lurking thanks to hotel wifi.

 

Clarification about requirements for my starts:

 

- Stories is required for all starts. It is currently a hub for all mod events used by this alternate starts mod.

 

On top of that:

 

- Stories Devious is required for the milk farm and the Pet

- SD+ is required for the spriggan and alicia start

- Dibella Sisterhood is required for the Dibella start

[Content Consumer]

I am away but still lurking thanks to hotel wifi.

 

Clarification about requirements for my starts:

 

- Stories is required for all starts. It is currently a hub for all mod events used by this alternate starts mod.

 

On top of that:

 

- Stories Devious is required for the milk farm and the Pet

- SD+ is required for the spriggan and alicia start

- Dibella Sisterhood is required for the Dibella start

 

So the Dibella start requires Sisterhood of Dibella and Stories, both?

And Spriggan and Alicia require both SD+ and Stories as well...

 

Gotcha. I'll get it right one of these days!