Bad Dog's Compleat Khajiit

NightroModzz · October 18, 2016

Hey, post a pic with how you've tweaked the feet.

Mine was (as a female)

[uUNP Morphs]

Calf Size: -2

Calf Smooth: 1

[body Scales]

L&R Calf: 102

L&R Foot: 105

L&R Toes: 1.25

I also made adjustments in the following do to the different skeletal structure but will vary depending on the body you use.

[uUNP Morphs]

Big Butt

Slim Thighs

Thighs

Legs

[body Scale]

Glute

NightroModzz · October 18, 2016

If I go the body replacing route, wont that mean that any naughty bits added by UUNP Special would be removed?

I suppose I could use the subtract sub-tool method in Zbrush and create a detailed model to use as a sub-tool of the empty space of a vagina and can do the same thing for the anus. After stretching the jaws a little, I pretty much did the same thing to open up the mouth and add depth to the throat with no loss or stretch in the poly count.

example:

However, I don't plan on getting into it with HDT Physics and rather someone else do that while I make a texture for the body or let someone make a patch for it when it's done. I don't suppose converting it to a UUNP or HDT CBBE mesh will just magically fix it in the right places will it?

*Bad Dog* · October 19, 2016

I'm happy to keep playing with different paw looks. I have boo's latest skeleton loaded on about every other playthrough--foot is very vertical in this one--but I have to live with these things a while before I know what I think. More examples are better.

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

I'm happy to keep playing with different paw looks. I have boo's latest skeleton loaded on about every other playthrough--foot is very vertical in this one--but I have to live with these things a while before I know what I think. More examples are better.

Examples of what exactly? My model?

Well, much like your foot mod but with more shape and the toes wont be meshed together. The paw cushions will pop out at a realistic level. The toe nails will be more hook like without touching the ground while the fingernails will be 30% human, 70% cat-like hook. Both with a texture option of glossy black and will try to get a somewhat semi-glossy semi-translucent white.

The finger tips will be like what I've seen in the picture above of you tiger texture but slightly bigger and pop more. As for the hand palms, I am still unsure but will be different than yours.

I can probably post another picture tomorrow night and the one after that will probably be final, meaning I will be done with the body but not the head. If re-meshing becomes an issue, then I will have to hold off until I finish the head too, and make a separate jaw/teeth model.

boo · October 19, 2016

I'm happy to keep playing with different paw looks. I have boo's latest skeleton loaded on about every other playthrough--foot is very vertical in this one--but I have to live with these things a while before I know what I think. More examples are better.

The straight leg variant or the regular? I assume regular when you say it is very vertical.

@Nightro - make sure your feet / hands conform to vanilla UVs if possible. If not, at the very least at the ankles / wrists to make it easier to reduce texture seams.

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

@Nightro - make sure your feet / hands conform to vanilla UVs if possible. If not, at the very least at the ankles / wrists to make it easier to reduce texture seams.

I'll try. I don't have Nif Scope or have learned anything related yet and don't plan to until after I'm done. So if any of you want to send me the the khajiit model an an OBJ, maya or blender file for reference, it would be most appreciated.

As for the neck seams, will give it a slightly bigger color bone and a little bit more upper back bone. That should fix the problem. I have the same problem.

Although, I'm pretty sure a lot of textures would be incompatible since the shape is considerably different from the default khajiit. Mostly from the waist down. Not only the legs, but the butt shape is different with a widened crotch in order to allow for a better tail placement not too far from the anus as it should be. (Had to do a lot of research. 2/3rds of them ended up being naught pics) The default Khajiit tail placement was in the right position. People complained because it seemed as if it was up the butt. It's Bathesda's fault for using the default human body. Or maybe mine is slightly higher. I changed the position from the last pictures I posted.

With that said, I might end up replacing the tail if I could with a length that fits the body and new tail animations . This way, the idle tail curves upwards above the feet and doesn't sink into the ground. I would have to do this anyway for UE4 so long as Skyrim animation will work with Maya and MotionBuilder.

Further discussing the textures, I'm sure that when my mod reaches completion, it should become fairly popular and will allow anyone to make textures for it as well as armor mods. Compatibility patches will definitely be fine, even a replacement mod so long as it still requires my mod in some way.

Edit:

If your talking about it fitting the default khajiit textures, it likely wont. I plan for this to come with it's own texture/textures. This is a complete overhaul of the khajiit body, textures, and some animations. As such, it will likely look awkward with anything else so long as I can get it to work. not the entire arm but I made the forarm and hands only slightly bigger from the default body I used for my model. The feet and hands come with the body and textures will be made for it so I don't see texture seems being a problem so long as you don't go mixing different body meshes with it.

boo · October 19, 2016

@Nightro - make sure your feet / hands conform to vanilla UVs if possible. If not, at the very least at the ankles / wrists to make it easier to reduce texture seams.

I'll try. I don't have Nif Scope or have learned anything related yet and don't plan to until after I'm done. So if any of you want to send me the the khajiit model an an OBJ, maya or blender file for reference, it would be most appreciated.

As for the neck seams, will give it a slightly bigger color bone and a little bit more upper back bone. That should fix the problem. I have the same problem.

Although, I'm pretty sure a lot of textures would be incompatible since the shape is considerably different from the default khajiit. Mostly from the waist down. Not only the legs, but the butt shape is different with a widened crotch in order to allow for a better tail placement not too far from the anus as it should be. (Had to do a lot of research. 2/3rds of them ended up being naught pics) The default Khajiit tail placement was in the right position. People complained because it seemed as if it was up the butt. It's Bathesda's fault for using the default human body. Or maybe mine is slightly higher. I changed the position from the last pictures I posted.

With that said, I might end up replacing the tail if I could with a length that fits the body and new tail animations . This way, the idle tail curves upwards above the feet and doesn't sink into the ground. I would have to do this anyway for UE4 so long as Skyrim animation will work with Maya and MotionBuilder.

Further discussing the textures, I'm sure that when my mod reaches completion, it should become fairly popular and will allow anyone to make textures for it as well as armor mods. Compatibility patches will definitely be fine, even a replacement mod so long as it still requires my mod in some way.

Edit:

If your talking about it fitting the default khajiit textures, it likely wont. I plan for this to come with it's own texture/textures. This is a complete overhaul of the khajiit body, textures, and some animations. As such, it will likely look awkward with anything else so long as I can get it to work. not the entire arm but I made the forarm and hands only slightly bigger from the default body I used for my model. The feet and hands come with the body and textures will be made for it so I don't see texture seems being a problem so long as you don't go mixing different body meshes with it.

Honestly I was hoping you would be making these meshes as a replacer for just the hands / feet in compleat khajiit, still using the skeleton technique for the body.

*Blaze69* · October 19, 2016

[Cool stuff]

Really nice to see this project taking shape. I can't wait to see this finished already. I mean, beast races (khajiit or otherwise) have been mostly neglected for a long time, that is until BadDog came along, and now we have this. You never know.

(Okay, I'll be honest, there was also UBR, but since they decided they would use the vanilla body, I don't count them. Awful looking, low-poly, not naughty-bits-enabled... That is a big no for me. Plus, Khajiit equipment is not even done, just bare feet).

Anyway, I think when boo said that thing about hands and feet was that you should try to keep the vanilla UV placement as much as you can, at least at the seams/transitions. That way, converting textures to use with your mod will be easier. Of course, if retaining quality requires for a totally different UV layout for them, then I'd say go quality over "easier compatibility".

Now, on body seams/transitions, as you are aiming for a full body replacer, I'd say keeping them vanilla is not required, so just place them wherever you think will work best. I think wrist seams can be kept vanilla, because I can't see anything wrong with them as they are right now. Feet are a whole different story.

About neck seam and heads, it's a difficult choice. On the one hand, I am sure you can make a much better head-body transition instead of the lazy "put some alpha'd fur layer around it so they don't see the head doesn't even match the body neck seam" thing Bethesda chose (of course human heads do match the body perfectly, 'cause, you know, humans are the only important characters :dodgy: ). That would make the mod incompatible with any other head or body, though compatibility patches/conversions can always be made.

PD: I hope whenever the mod is finished and released, a compatibility patch for Yiffy Age is made, or at least the textures from it be made compatible. I would really like to be able to give that body to my tigress :lol: .

Honestly I was hoping you would be making these meshes as a replacer for just the hands / feet in compleat khajiit, still using the skeleton technique for the body.

Since an actual new body has been made (and by the sounds of it, it will improve Khajiit looks even more), I'd say it won't be "just hands and feet". Not sure if the skeleton used will be digitigrade or regular, though.

EDIT:

If I go the body replacing route, wont that mean that any naughty bits added by UUNP Special would be removed? [...]

I don't suppose converting it to a UUNP or HDT CBBE mesh will just magically fix it in the right places will it?

Well, I'd say if you edit that part of the body so it is similar to the UUNP Special one, you can just port the "naughty bits" mesh to your own body. With some minor tweaks, I'm sure it would work fine.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Blaze69

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

Honestly I was hoping you would be making these meshes as a replacer for just the hands / feet in compleat khajiit, still using the skeleton technique for the body.

I can probably do that after in a Full Mod installer as optional for compatibility after I finish the body mod and meshes. Or I can just give the hands and feet to Bad Dog and let him adjust it for his mod while I'm working on the other stuff.

PD: I hope whenever the mod is finished and released, a compatibility patch for Yiffy Age is made, or at least the textures from it be made compatible. I would really like to be able to give that body to my tigress .

Never Tried it. If it's not too hard for Bad Dog to make compatible with with the new Skyrim Special Edition (Probably should be Bad Dog) or require SKSE/SkyUI, I'll check it out. Or Bad Dog can make a compatibility patch. I may be wrong, but isn't Yiffy a homosexual term for furries? I'm not too much of a furry fan considering that less than 10% of stuff I see online does anything for me and when yiffy comes up, it usually always male.

A male body should come rather quickly since I can just subtract the female torso/arms, re-mesh together an imported male torso/arms to the legs and hands, then make some minor changes to the rest of the body.

*Blaze69* · October 19, 2016

PD: I hope whenever the mod is finished and released, a compatibility patch for Yiffy Age is made, or at least the textures from it be made compatible. I would really like to be able to give that body to my tigress .

Never Tried it. If it's not too hard for Bad Dog to make compatible with with the new Skyrim Special Edition or require SKSE/SkyUI, I'll check it out. Or Bad Dog can make a compatibility patch. [...]

I was thinking more like making Yiffy Age's textures compatible with your body (so any of the races' textures can be used with it, both custom races like Lykaios and new races like Panthers/Tigers) than a whole port of it for Skyrim Special Edition, though the latter would also be nice.

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

PD: I hope whenever the mod is finished and released, a compatibility patch for Yiffy Age is made, or at least the textures from it be made compatible. I would really like to be able to give that body to my tigress .

Never Tried it. If it's not too hard for Bad Dog to make compatible with with the new Skyrim Special Edition or require SKSE/SkyUI, I'll check it out. Or Bad Dog can make a compatibility patch. [...]

I was thinking more like making Yiffy Age's textures compatible with your body (so any of the races' textures can be used with it, both custom races like Lykaios and new races like Panthers/Tigers) than a whole port of it for Skyrim Special Edition, though the latter would also be nice.

I don't think I have permission to be touching most of those textures or custom races but I'm pretty sure Bad Dog does. If anyone or the mod authors want, they have permission to make any texture for my mod or use my body so long as their mod still requires my mod to be downloaded in some way. Will say so in the future description. I can make a tiger texture for it but if Bad Dog wants to adjust his for my mod, then I wont touch the tiger.

*Blaze69* · October 19, 2016

PD: I hope whenever the mod is finished and released, a compatibility patch for Yiffy Age is made, or at least the textures from it be made compatible. I would really like to be able to give that body to my tigress .

Never Tried it. If it's not too hard for Bad Dog to make compatible with with the new Skyrim Special Edition or require SKSE/SkyUI, I'll check it out. Or Bad Dog can make a compatibility patch. [...]

I was thinking more like making Yiffy Age's textures compatible with your body (so any of the races' textures can be used with it, both custom races like Lykaios and new races like Panthers/Tigers) than a whole port of it for Skyrim Special Edition, though the latter would also be nice.

I don't think I have permission to be touching most of those textures or custom races but I'm pretty sure Bad Dog does. If anyone or the mod authors want, they have permission to make any texture for my mod or use my body so long as their mod still requires my mod to be downloaded in some way. Will say so in the future description. I can make a tiger texture for it but if Bad Dog wants to adjust his for my mod, then I wont touch the tiger.

Sounds about right.

One more question though, do you intend to make your mod both for regular Skyrim and the Special version, or just for the Special one? I am asking because as far as we know, SSE has its own new .nif version that is an hybrid between regular Skyrim and Fallout 4, but regular Skyrim .nifs can also be loaded by the game and they work just fine.

I'd say the best option would be to make it for regular Skyrim, 'cause that way it is also immediately compatible with SSE. The opposite wouldn't happen if you were to use SSE's new format, so I'd say it is best if it works with both versions, specially considering how limited SSE is going to be with respect to mods and the potential lack of tools like SKSE/SkyUI/FNIS.

*Bad Dog* · October 19, 2016

Heard from Fore that he's not modding anymore and the SkyUI guy is very discouraging about porting SkyUI--and he's not modding either. So the odds of getting a fully functional mod set working on SSE are low.

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

Well, it was origonally intended for the new Skyrim but changed the plans to bring it over to the old skyrim first since it already has HDT,UNP,CBBE support. And by my understanding, you all already seem comfortable with the current tools for bringing a mod to Skyrim which will help plenty.

Maybe I'll bring it over to SSE once it gets a little more body mod support and when I can get a feel for the new tools even though I don't really

know much of the current tools lol.

NightroModzz · October 19, 2016

When you load up the default khajiit skeleton, does it include the tail or is it separate? I'm wondering if I should remove my tail before hand or replace it and use mine in a default position.

The pro is that it would be in it's best location and the textures would curve around the tail instead of a separate texture that would give a texture design flaw and outline around the tail base.

The con would be that it wouldn't look good when you try to change the position in RaceMenu and I might not replace the tail animation if I don't.

*Bad Dog* · October 20, 2016

Currently the tail is part of the skeleton, but it's a separate mesh. Might as well keep it there.

NightroModzz · October 20, 2016

Currently the tail is part of the skeleton, but it's a separate mesh. Might as well keep it there.

So by "keep it there" you mean remove the tail from my model for the mod?

Can't I just remove the tail mesh and adjust the tail skeleton ( just the position) since it loads with the khajiit model? Or will that be bad and be considered a modified skeleton?

*Blaze69* · October 20, 2016

Currently the tail is part of the skeleton, but it's a separate mesh. Might as well keep it there.

So by "keep it there" you mean remove the tail from my model for the mod?

Can't I just remove the tail mesh and adjust the tail skeleton ( just the position) since it loads with the khajiit model? Or will that be bad and be considered a modified skeleton?

Actually as far as I know you can keep the tail as part of the body mesh, there isn't a reason not to do so. As long as the tail placement matches Skyrim's standard and the weight painting is right and smooth enough, you should be fine.

Usually, the drawback of doing so would be that due to the way Bethesda games equip stuff (AKA replace naked body/hands/whatever meshes with other body/hands/whatever meshes that also include the gear you want to equip), the tail would need to be included with every piece of body gear Khajiit can equip because they would loose it otherwise, but this does not apply to Skyrim thanks to the "Skin Partition" system.

boo · October 20, 2016

Currently the tail is part of the skeleton, but it's a separate mesh. Might as well keep it there.

So by "keep it there" you mean remove the tail from my model for the mod?

Can't I just remove the tail mesh and adjust the tail skeleton ( just the position) since it loads with the khajiit model? Or will that be bad and be considered a modified skeleton?

Actually as far as I know you can keep the tail as part of the body mesh, there isn't a reason not to do so. As long as the tail placement matches Skyrim's standard and the weight painting is right and smooth enough, you should be fine.

Usually, the drawback of doing so would be that due to the way Bethesda games equip stuff (AKA replace naked body/hands/whatever meshes with other body/hands/whatever meshes that also include the gear you want to equip), the tail would need to be included with every piece of body gear Khajiit can equip because they would loose it otherwise, but this does not apply to Skyrim thanks to the "Skin Partition" system.

Nah, you could still have the separate tail model for clothing while having an integrated tail on the naked body as long as the slots are appropriately defined I think.

*Blaze69* · October 20, 2016

Currently the tail is part of the skeleton, but it's a separate mesh. Might as well keep it there.

So by "keep it there" you mean remove the tail from my model for the mod?

Can't I just remove the tail mesh and adjust the tail skeleton ( just the position) since it loads with the khajiit model? Or will that be bad and be considered a modified skeleton?

Actually as far as I know you can keep the tail as part of the body mesh, there isn't a reason not to do so. As long as the tail placement matches Skyrim's standard and the weight painting is right and smooth enough, you should be fine.

Usually, the drawback of doing so would be that due to the way Bethesda games equip stuff (AKA replace naked body/hands/whatever meshes with other body/hands/whatever meshes that also include the gear you want to equip), the tail would need to be included with every piece of body gear Khajiit can equip because they would loose it otherwise, but this does not apply to Skyrim thanks to the "Skin Partition" system.

Nah, you could still have the separate tail model for clothing while having an integrated tail on the naked body as long as the slots are appropriately defined I think.

Yep, that is what I meant with that "Skin Partition" thing. Assign the tail (AKA the polys that form the tail) to the "Tail" partition instead of the "Body" one (while tail and body still form a single mesh), and unlesss you equip something that actually takes up the tail slot/wants to hide the tail, it will remain visible. The Partition system is kind of a pain sometimes, but in cases like this is when it's good to have it.

That is the way Skyrim manages to, for example, remove parts of armor/clothing meshes that would usually show clipping with most gauntlets/boots: you assign the sleeve/ankle part of the armor mesh to the "Forearm" or "Calve" partition, and when you equip gauntlets or boots that have a part of them assigned to the same partition, the gauntlet/boot one prevails over the body one and makes it dissapear, all while leaving the rest of the body untouched. That would be the thing with tails: the body would get "overwritten" by any clothes/armor/whatever that take up the "Body" slot, but the tail part of the body would remain visible and working fine unless something takes up the "Tail" slot.

NightroModzz · October 20, 2016

It will probably take me another week to be done, but here are some pictures.

https://gyazo.com/ba8741a859087883c8e0dcde849ccdd4

https://gyazo.com/ad115e6f68a8829f0c06187f33777bb7

https://gyazo.com/fa7e82141c7e44f832217ba562be834e

https://gyazo.com/66189b4e0a941fc23c6fa8e5e8cbacf5

https://gyazo.com/0f50b7d04276060e616c5f3145a90423

The toes are spread out for re-meshing because I don't want them meshed together and are still an early work in progress.

Need to spend time on my head for UE4 too.

https://gyazo.com/8bed5019020bd59faaa21a2d7148deb9

Edit:

It probably doesn't look like a did a whole lot but is something you can only tell when looking up close. like proper formation of the mesh, smoothing areas out, and the roundness of the butt. I'm very picky and a bit of a perfectionist.

There is that one part between the shin and foot that seems too long. I have a few tricks to fix that but simply shortening it makes the legs seem too short when looking at the body from the front.

Update:

This is my fix.

https://gyazo.com/37968839db27c3d63bc09fff8dbccee2

https://gyazo.com/ccb584d1ca651e9b854856a8f458ac3c

I added a bone down the middle that you can feel when you bend your ankle and slightly tilted the back of the foot.

Does anyone think that it's still too long or just right? Too be honest, it still kind of bugs me.

boo · October 21, 2016

A bit too long I think.

27X · October 21, 2016

too long and there's no clear demarcation/bulge where the ankle would be sheathed. Housing a ball/sliding joint and attendant tendons would create one.

Foreshortening from the front is going to be a thing, check ME's krogans.

NightroModzz · October 21, 2016

too long and there's no clear demarcation/bulge where the ankle would be sheathed. Housing a ball/sliding joint and attendant tendons would create one.

Foreshortening from the front is going to be a thing, check ME's krogans.

Any pictures for an example?

Pulled an all nighter and well.....I'm done with the body for the most part. Minus some touch ups I will likely make. I also pulled the shoulder blades a bit for a more stealthy cat-like appearance.

The head aside (since I can do that after the mod), I just need to make sub-tools like the nails and for the naughty bits and then put the toes back in place, as well as widen them a bit.

No, I'm not going to import the one from UUNP Special because it's a 2"inch deep, low poly streatched out redish pink mess. (although I'm grateful that it was added) If I want, I can even add a cervix and the inside of a cervix easily with the sutract sub-tool method.

I can then include files with the sub-tools along side the mod as a modders recourse and explain how I did it and in which program. It should get HDT support sooner that way.

https://gyazo.com/3b3ba1b74c681b6a531f5b1f9c412a1a

https://gyazo.com/cbd871a070549e5ae1f4a8047385ea97

https://gyazo.com/e87f8ab5d2def38311013dc183689a37