NightroModzz Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 Frustrated just trying to figure out how to import the tri files from the Citrus Head Replacers to Zbrush! I downloaded a BSA extractore for the tri files, then download NifSkope and it wont recognize it when trying to import. Also downloaded a NifSkope 3DS MAX plugin but doesn't work with the 2017 version. Then I downloaded "Triton tri files creator" and it has no useful information on the description or tutorials, but I think I don't need it yet. Then I tried "blender tri import and export tool" but does not work with newer versions of Blender. It is really outdated and has no version compatibility information. The Skyrim to Blender (so I can then export as .OBJ) videos I've watched sucks because they either have no talking or lack of explanation. Usually only for weapons. I've been up all night trying to figure out how to do this from 12am and is now 6:40am. I live in USA CA, and I'm sure some of you are on the other side of the world considering the times you post. Can someone who is familiar with this please give me a step by step explanation, what programs they use, and what version? I want to adjust the neck to body connection to make sure it will fit right. I also want to add fur detail to the cheeks and neck. Here. It is an utility that "unpacks" .tri files into all of the different morphs and exports them as .obj files alongside a list of all the morphs and their order. It can also be used to repack/regenerate the .tri after you have edited the morphs. Should be what you need. Thanks! I really want to edit this a bit. It doesn't look all that great and no nose detail.
NightroModzz Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 I posted this on the Citrus Head comment section, but will post it here as well just in case I can get a reply sooner if any of you are knowledgeable in this category. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "If I want to just change some features on the khajiit head.tri like on the cheeks, make a better nose, and give a better neck shape. Also increase the poly to 10,000 in Zbrush while trying to keep the same head formation, Will the rest or the files for the khajiit head still work or will I have to find a way to edit those as well? Like the facial animations and Racemenu customization for example.This is for a khajiit body replacer I'm making."
NightroModzz Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Finished editing the female Khajiit head. I tried keeping the default formation as much as I felt necesary. I fixed the neck shape, gave the chin a proper shape, and gave the nose a lot more detail since there wasn't really any. I only edited it at a 20,400 polycount, because for some reason any higher it will delete the whiskers. For that reason, I couldn't add the fur detail for a high detail UV. Process: Before editing at a 7,203 polycount. https://gyazo.com/da8cd465b65250ce9c0f62c7e0c6af0e https://gyazo.com/8a9ee5d783d7a2d3de7800cfe5dd234b Square conversion + 20,455 polycount edit. https://gyazo.com/0c3b20037edf3945093e2993cbb1220a https://gyazo.com/7ece4d9755b2fffa1db63d2259fc8ab1 Final + Tri conversion at an 8,182 polycount. https://gyazo.com/fb37dcc11b8175f0ab6268ac3c3381ca https://gyazo.com/c97559139eb60e9376b1d56950571750 The head is made up of around 6 different meshes but is considered 1 mesh when editing. After increasing the polycount, it made some holes and gaps. I closed some holes and all the gaps. unfortunately, the are some really small holes that are too small that I can not fix. For example, going around the ears, but will likely not be a problem. Scratch that. I can fix the hole but will take a while.
Blaze69 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I posted this on the Citrus Head comment section, but will post it here as well just in case I can get a reply sooner if any of you are knowledgeable in this category. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "If I want to just change some features on the khajiit head.tri like on the cheeks, make a better nose, and give a better neck shape. Also increase the poly to 10,000 in Zbrush while trying to keep the same head formation, Will the rest or the files for the khajiit head still work or will I have to find a way to edit those as well? Like the facial animations and Racemenu customization for example. This is for a khajiit body replacer I'm making." AFAIK you can keep existing assets as long as you don't alter polycount/vertex order/something like that. Some of the mods with alternate Khajiit heads (like Catlike Khajiit, which was taken down from Nexus but can be found somewhere in this forum) just change the shape of the base meshes without touching anything else, and the morphs/facial anims still work. If you were to edit the neck shape, then you would have to rebuild the "NeckWeight" morph (or whatever it is called) if and only if you do alter the placement of the polys just at the neck seam, for example. If you really intend to add even more polys to the CITRUS head (which I honestly think is not necessary, but it's your choice), then you would have to rebuild all of the morphs/anims/.tris, because they need to be a 1:1 match of the base head mesh in polycount and such, and only differ in the actual shape (for the morph). EDIT: okay, scrap the part about the edits not being needed, your head does look way better than the original one. Still, you would have to build all of the morphs/anims with the new head, and I don't know how hard it would be. Maybe wait for a reply from the people at CITRUS, or ask for advice somewhere else.
NightroModzz Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I posted this on the Citrus Head comment section, but will post it here as well just in case I can get a reply sooner if any of you are knowledgeable in this category. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "If I want to just change some features on the khajiit head.tri like on the cheeks, make a better nose, and give a better neck shape. Also increase the poly to 10,000 in Zbrush while trying to keep the same head formation, Will the rest or the files for the khajiit head still work or will I have to find a way to edit those as well? Like the facial animations and Racemenu customization for example. This is for a khajiit body replacer I'm making." AFAIK you can keep existing assets as long as you don't alter polycount/vertex order/something like that. Some of the mods with alternate Khajiit heads (like Catlike Khajiit, which was taken down from Nexus but can be found somewhere in this forum) just change the shape of the base meshes without touching anything else, and the morphs/facial anims still work. If you were to edit the neck shape, then you would have to rebuild the "NeckWeight" morph (or whatever it is called) if and only if you do alter the placement of the polys just at the neck seam, for example. If you really intend to add even more polys to the CITRUS head (which I honestly think is not necessary, but it's your choice), then you would have to rebuild all of the morphs/anims/.tris, because they need to be a 1:1 match of the base head mesh in polycount and such, and only differ in the actual shape (for the morph). EDIT: okay, scrap the part about the edits not being needed, your head does look way better than the original one. Still, you would have to build all of the morphs/anims with the new head, and I don't know how hard it would be. Maybe wait for a reply from the people at CITRUS, or ask for advice somewhere else. I can probably get close to the same results without touching the polycount. However, it will take me another day. I do still want to change the neck shape to the same as shown in the picture though. Also, if I offer the head as an optional separate download, it would fix a lot of peoples khajiit neck seem problems.
Blaze69 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) I can probably get close to the same results without touching the polycount. However, it will take me another day. I do still want to change the neck shape to the same as shown in the picture though. Also, if I offer the head as an optional separate download, it would fix a lot of peoples khajiit neck seem problems. Well, if you keep the polycount/vertex order and just modify the neck area, you would also have to edit the morph that fits the neck to the body seam from the _1 weight to the _0 weight (can't remember the name right now), but any other morphs/facial anims that don't touch the neck should be fine to be used as they are right now (unless you want to tweak them, but my point was about the "neck" thing). So I'd say it's a good choice. And yeah, you should totally include that head with the mod. At last, we are close to having seamless khajiit necks instead of the mess Bethesda made. Okay, CITRUS kinda fixed it, but still... The only reason not to use that head would be people using other Khajiit head replacers like Catlike Khajiit (for example, I use the "Lioness" head). This could be fixed by recreating those head shapes in your new mesh and then packing them in a .tri file to be loaded as extra sliders in RaceMenu. That has been done already with several (humanoid) head shapes/custom morphs that come by default with RaceMenu, so it should be relatively easy (of course this is a long-term suggestion, getting the base mod finished and working has the priority IMO). Edited October 25, 2016 by Blaze69
NightroModzz Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I can probably get close to the same results without touching the polycount. However, it will take me another day. I do still want to change the neck shape to the same as shown in the picture though. Also, if I offer the head as an optional separate download, it would fix a lot of peoples khajiit neck seem problems. Well, if you keep the polycount/vertex order and just modify the neck area, you would also have to edit the morph that fits the neck to the body seam from the _1 weight to the _0 weight (can't remember the name right now), but any other morphs/facial anims that don't touch the neck should be fine to be used as they are right now (unless you want to tweak them, but my point was about the "neck" thing). So I'd say it's a good choice. And yeah, you should totally include that head with the mod. At last, we are close to having seamless khajiit necks instead of the mess Bethesda made. Okay, CITRUS kinda fixed it, but still... The only reason not to use that head would be people using other Khajiit head replacers like Catlike Khajiit (for example, I use the "Lioness" head). This could be fixed by recreating those head shapes in your new mesh and then packing them in a .tri file to be loaded as extra sliders in RaceMenu. That has been done already with several (humanoid) head shapes/custom morphs that come by default with RaceMenu, so it should be relatively easy (of course this is a long-term suggestion, getting the base mod finished and working has the priority IMO). I am a bit confued on what you mean by "polycount/vertex (order)" because it makes it sound like nothing can be changed of it's shape, meaning no edits. Are you just referring to not changing the polycount? And I did try Citrus heads but did not fix the seam problem for me. Human faces looked a bit better and it dropped my frame rate. I'll only uses the high poly heads for beast races since there are so few. After I finish the head tomorrow, if Bad Dog wants, he/she can do the neck weights and make it compatible for Skyrim for me if it's not too much of a hassle. Then I wouldn't mind Bad Dog keeping it in his/her mods. Actually, being part of a modding team sounds like it would be much less of a headache. I'm much more of the artist type. Although I plan on doing animations too.
Blaze69 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) I am a bit confued on what you mean by "polycount/vertex (order)" because it makes it sound like nothing can be changed of it's shape, meaning no edits. Are you just referring to not changing the polycount? And I did try Citrus heads but did not fix the seam problem for me. Human faces looked a bit better and it dropped my frame rate. I'll only uses the high poly heads for beast races since there are so few. After I finish the head tomorrow, if Bad Dog wants, he/she can do the neck weights and make it compatible for Skyrim for me if it's not too much of a hassle. Then I wouldn't mind Bad Dog keeping it in his/her mods. Actually, being part of a modding team sounds like it would be much less of a headache. I'm much more of the artist type. Although I plan on doing animations too. To be honest, I'm not really sure what it means either, I'm just telling what I've heard in the hopes of anybody actually understanding it . I think "vertex order" means the order the vertexes/faces/polys/whatever are listed in the mesh file, not their actual 3d position. IIRC, some things can screw up that ordering, and regardless if your mesh has the exact same polys in the same physical place or have been moved, the game considers them "different" because the order is not the same, and so morphs and similar stuff don't work anymore.Of course, shape edits that work fine ingame are possible as evidenced by countless mods (taking the mentioned custom Khajiit headshapes as an example), so maybe it's just a program-specific issue or something like that. Anyway, chances are you are right, and as long as the polycount remains constant, there should be no problem. Someone that knows more about Skyrim modeling may be able to provide some insight into that, though. Nevermind, take a look at the edit below. Yeah, CITRUS doesn't fix the seam problem, it just makes it nicer to look at. It's just that the idea of having some "3D fur" on the neck is not bad, but pasting some half-assed transparent poly layer over the seam and then not even bothering to match the actual neck to the body... Way to go, Beth . As for humanoid neck seams, that is a texture issue. If your textures are seamless, then even Vanilla human heads are flawless as well, so I don't care that much about CITRUS there. EDIT: Wait, I think I got something. From this tutorial: Working with Skyrim head TRIs (may be a little outdated, but info is still relevant): All OBJs should be imported and exported this way. The vertex order of the mesh MUST stay intact. Do not add or delete vertices, weld anything or touch the UVs. Only move vertices around. So, no altering vertex count, no welding, and no touching the UV. As long as you don't do any of those things, you should be good to go. BTW, this may also come in handy for when you get to the part of creating/baking the normal maps: Creating normal maps for your own Skyrim character mods. It may not apply to your case straightaway, but the parts about XNormal and the overall info may be useful. Edited October 25, 2016 by Blaze69
27X Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 The tutorial above applies to internally converted nifs aka niftool->blender->-niftools, not created ones converted into nifs, otherwise this or UUNP would have never been a thing. As long as UVs consistent and your final topology is correct, the model should display correctly. vanilla heads are fine This head/face is literally impossible to do in vanilla skyrim. Maintaining good topology is certainly more important, but polycount matters and it's a simple matter of structure and surface value, and no amount of racemenu wizardry can make more surfaces magically appear from what doesn't exist. Citrus doesn't have more polygons because blabba was ignorant, Citrus has more polygons because they were generally necessary to make heads that didn't double as daedric weapons. Blabba also waited to do khajiit heads last because they required the most attention to detail in order not to look like the apocalypse of deformation that are Oblivion khajiit.
Blaze69 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 The tutorial above applies to internally converted nifs aka niftool->blender->-niftools, not created ones converted into nifs, otherwise this or UUNP would have never been a thing. As long as UVs consistent and your final topology is correct, the model should display correctly. This head/face is literally impossible to do in vanilla skyrim. Maintaining good topology is certainly more important, but polycount matters and it's a simple matter of structure and surface value, and no amount of racemenu wizardry can make more surfaces magically appear from what doesn't exist. Citrus doesn't have more polygons because blabba was ignorant, Citrus has more polygons because they were generally necessary to make heads that didn't double as daedric weapons. Blabba also waited to do khajiit heads last because they required the most attention to detail in order not to look like the apocalypse of deformation that are Oblivion khajiit. Unless I got it wrong, it does apply here, because it's not a body mesh we're talking about, it's head meshes. Of course, you can increase the polycount and change topology and whatever you want with most meshes (heads included), and I'm sure if the process is right they will look fine and work flawlessly. The problem comes with morphs, because you have to recreate ALL of the game's morphs (both facial expressions/phonemes and face customization sliders), because the morphs have to be an 1:1 match of the topology/polycount of the base mesh they are applied to. That is why in the CITRUS description using their meshes to replace vanilla heads is not recommended, because the new heads require new morphs but the FaceGen data of NPC's would still contain vanilla heads. Thus, meshes and morphs don't match and everyone (except for the player) gets static non-animated heads. Nightro could increase the polycount of the CITRUS Khajiit head if he wanted to, but then he would have to rebuild ALL of the morphs with his edited head. On the other hand, if he keeps the current polycount (which I honestly think is the right option here) then most of the original morphs can be reused because the base mesh is the same and they match as long as the instructions in that tutorial are followed (as in, what not to do with the mesh in Blender/3DS Max/Whatever). Then he would only have to edit the specific morphs he wanted, like the neck one, or, for example, the nose customization ones. As for the "vanilla heads are fine" quote, I was refering to neck seams, because I wasn't sure if Nightro meant all of them or just in Khajiit heads. I do have to say that with the vanilla humanoid head and the help of some RaceMenu sliders, I have been able to create characters that I like just fine, but then again I'm not that interested in playing humans/elves so maybe I'm not the one to speak about that topic. You do have a point about the amount of customizability CITRUS humanoid heads provide, I was just stating that I didn't consider them necessary for my game, not that they weren't good or useful (which they surely are).
27X Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I'm aware of those things, I'm simply saying that there is a balance to be reached versus workflow and supposed diminishing returns. There's also engine facets where in a certain amount of topolgy is needed to achieve aesthetically pleasing results, in general it takes about In this case, you are correct; maintaining vert consistency for morphs is necessary unless you want to build new morphs on your own. I have no idea whether nightromodzz wants to make morphs or not, it hasn't been discussed afaik, even between weight 0 and 1.
NightroModzz Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Thanks for the advice you two. Generally I want to replace the heads for all khajiits. So I guess Citrus only applies to the player and I would have to edit the default low poly khajiit head as well to achieve that correct?
Blaze69 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the advice you two. Generally I want to replace the heads for all khajiits. So I guess Citrus only applies to the player and I would have to edit the default low poly khajiit head as well to achieve that correct? Nope, in this case you can just replace the vanilla Khajiit head with your new one (aka modified CITRUS one) and its morphs. The player character will use it by default, and Khajiit NPC's are not that many so it will be easy to regenerate their FaceGen data with your head. I can handle that part like I did for Yiffy Age if you want, though everything has to be ingame and working fine for the player before anything else can be done. EDIT: To clarify, the reason CITRUS heads are not recommended as straightforward NPC head replacers is that as I mentioned, their FaceGen data would have to be rebuilt with CITRUS heads or else they would have the static-head bug due to mismatched morphs. So, the CITRUS author would have to generate FaceGen for ALL of Skyrim's NPC's -All of them- and pack it with the mod if they wanted to offer that possibility, and that's a big no (they do tell people how to do it in case they want to do it for their own installs). Plus, you have the fact that any mod that edits NPC appearance would be incompatible because they include their own version of the FaceGen and would need to be regenerated with both their changes and CITRUS heads. In your case, as it's going to be a Khajiit overhaul, you can just replace the head of ALL Khajiits and then pack their FaceGen data with your mod. There's like, what, 20? 30? Khajiits tops in Skyrim. Maybe more, but not many. And we are talking around 500 KB per NPC, so no big deal. Of course, there is the incompatibility with cosmetic overhaul I mentioned, but how many mods do you know that actively edit Khajiit NPC's appearance? There is not many of them, so no big deal either. Edited October 25, 2016 by Blaze69
NightroModzz Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Thanks for the advice you two. Generally I want to replace the heads for all khajiits. So I guess Citrus only applies to the player and I would have to edit the default low poly khajiit head as well to achieve that correct? Nope, in this case you can just replace the vanilla Khajiit head with your new one (aka modified CITRUS one) and its morphs. The player character will use it by default, and Khajiit NPC's are not that many so it will be easy to regenerate their FaceGen data with your head. I can handle that part like I did for Yiffy Age if you want, though everything has to be ingame and working fine for the player before anything else can be done. Okay, thanks! That will help a lot! I'm currently half done.
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 The head is done! It took longer than I thought to reorganize all the poly without stretching it too much and not increasing poly count. It might not be as smooth as the previouse but I think it's a bit better. I guess they didn't make it completely symmetrical because I had to turn that feature off plenty of times to make fixes. Something I didn't have a problem with after increasing the polycount on the previous one because it evens it out. I also took a day off and have to again tomorrow. the neck is thinner than the original and also added more form and muscles on the side instead of it being overly wide in the back with a reverse shape color bone. It was designed to fit perfectly with my Khajiit model so I'm not so sure how it will fit with the other bodies. I'm also not sure if I got the rotation, size, hight, etc, perfect when adjusting it for the body. I also thinned out the sides of the chin, something I won't do much of for the male. with the body. https://gyazo.com/fb36e5825159895c837f52a0d48b6978 https://gyazo.com/2925aa787cf5d3e1a8132b0bf50438f7 https://gyazo.com/d5da12c3631ec99ffb21d4cd9c05ee9b without the body https://gyazo.com/588feaced25d6c5f677219b8a41407b8 https://gyazo.com/2935cfb369ffa4b275003091919db168 I would like to edit the teeth too, but don't know where to get that file. Did not see any related files in the femalekhajiithead.tri. They are too long, seem like they dig into the roof of the mouth, the upper and lower K9 collide with each other. Do any of you know where I can find that file? update: just enlarged the shoulder and color bone a bit so it looks better with the head.
Blaze69 Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) [...] I would like to edit the teeth too, but don't know where to get that file. Did not see any related files in the femalekhajiithead.tri. They are too long, seem like they dig into the roof of the mouth, the upper and lower K9 collide with each other. Do any of you know where I can find that file? [...] The mouths are separate meshes with their own morph files. They should be in "Meshes\actors\character\character assets\mouth", and they are "mouthkhajiitfemale.nif" and "malemouthkhajiit.nif". There is also a "Mouthkhajiit.nif", but I think that one is just the same as the male one so you can replace both with exactly the same files if you do modify it. BTW, those models are looking really good! About compatibility with other bodies, you have extensively modified the neck area from what I have seen, and while that is the point so it matches your body and such, I'm pretty sure other bodies won't match. Since that head is supposed to be used with the body, there is no big deal, but this makes vanilla gear conversions an absolute must, otherwise there will be visual glitches (aka neck and body not matching). Other mod-added gear can be converted by other people (or you if you want) once this is done. I do have a question: what do you intend to do about the weight slider? What have you done for the "NeckSmall" (morph or whatever its name is) that matches the head to the neck part of the _0 body? I am asking because so far you have not spoken about the _0 weight version of your body, and while the same body/hands/feet shape can be used for both ends of the slider (like, for example, the UUNP Zeroed Sliders body preset does), the game expects at least the neck to get a little thinner as you approach the _0 end of the slider. Of course, you can just leave that neck morph empty and make all of the _0 and _1 body meshes be identical, but I think in this case it would be better to followe Skyrim standards and have body/head change along the _0 end of the slider. Ideally, once the game-ready _1 body mesh is done and working, you would take it and tweak it (same way as morphs, only moving polys around, no changing polycount or anything similar) to make a _0 version of it. Following Skyrim and body replacer standards, it should be skinnier than the _1 one, with less muscles/fat and with smaller "atributes". Then, you would edit the neck seam/transition so it best matches the shape of your _0 version, and use it as a reference to build the _0 morph for the head. This is just a suggestion, though. Edited October 28, 2016 by Blaze69
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 [...] I would like to edit the teeth too, but don't know where to get that file. Did not see any related files in the femalekhajiithead.tri. They are too long, seem like they dig into the roof of the mouth, the upper and lower K9 collide with each other. Do any of you know where I can find that file? [...] The mouths are separate meshes with their own morph files. They should be in "Meshes\actors\character\character assets\mouth", and they are "mouthkhajiitfemale.nif" and "malemouthkhajiit.nif". There is also a "Mouthkhajiit.nif", but I think that one is just the same as the male one so you can replace both with exactly the same files if you do modify it. BTW, those models are looking really good! About compatibility with other bodies, you have extensively modified the neck area from what I have seen, and while that is the point so it matches your body and such, I'm pretty sure other bodies won't match. Since that head is supposed to be used with the body, there is no big deal, but this makes vanilla gear conversions an absolute must, otherwise there will be visual glitches (aka neck and body not matching). Other mod-added gear can be converted by other people (or you if you want) once this is done. I do have a question: what do you intend to do about the weight slider? What have you done for the "NeckSmall" (morph or whatever its name is) that matches the head to the neck part of the _0 body? I am asking because so far you have not spoken about the _0 weight version of your body, and while the same body/hands/feet shape can be used for both ends of the slider (like, for example, the UUNP Zeroed Sliders body preset does), the game expects at least the neck to get a little thinner as you approach the _0 end of the slider. Of course, you can just leave that neck morph empty and make all of the _0 and _1 body meshes be identical, but I think in this case it would be better to followe Skyrim standards and have body/head change along the _0 end of the slider. Ideally, once the game-ready _1 body mesh is done and working, you would take it and tweak it (same way as morphs, only moving polys around, no changing polycount or anything similar) to make a _0 version of it. Following Skyrim and body replacer standards, it should be skinnier than the _1 one, with less muscles/fat and with smaller "atributes". Then, you would edit the neck seam/transition so it best matches the shape of your _0 version, and use it as a reference to build the _0 morph for the head. This is just a suggestion, though. Unfortunately, I have no experience in that yet and have not taken anything out of Zbrush either. Only modeling so far. Also, I've never seen a slider for the neck in RaceMenu, only the head height which lowers the head from the top part of the neck. Nor have I seen one in BodySlide. What are you using? As for the 0_slider for the body, if I need to take it back to Zbrus, the Move and Smooth brush is all I need if I just want to remove some muscle detail and make it skinnier. as well as the scale tool. Pretty much a one day job. Unlike the head, I wouldn't be reshaping so much as I am just smoothing it down. As for converting armor in BodySlide to fit, (I think that's what you mean) I've done it before but have not tested to see if I've done it right yet. I would rather see if I can get someone else to do while I get started on the male. After that, I want to make my own armor from scratch because I've only taken a liking to very few armor mods for my khajiit. Either a modded armor is too skimpy or not at all. There is never an in between. Or if I think I found one that would look good on my khajiit, I find out it's incompatible with an invisible body. I heard that all they had to do was just check mark one box (beast races) to make it compatible, how lazy or racist can you get. Well I plan to make some Khajiit only armor mods from scratch since most suck for khajiits in my opinion. Some weapon mods as well and will try to put them in one or 2 esp so long as you can group weapon and armor in a single esp.
Blaze69 Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Unfortunately, I have no experience in that yet and have not taken anything out of Zbrush either. Only modeling so far. Also, I've never seen a slider for the neck in RaceMenu, only the head height which lowers the head from the top part of the neck. Nor have I seen one in BodySlide. What are you using? I was talking about the "Weight" slider from Vanilla Skyrim. All of Skyrim's character meshes (body/feet/hands) have a *_0 .nif and a *_1.nif, and work in a similar way head morphs work, but with the "morphs" as separate .nif files instead of compressed into a .tri (the same consistency rules for morphs apply to them, you can only move polys around, you can't change polycount/weight painting). When you select your character's weight from 0 to 100, you are telling the game how do you want it to use those meshes. If you set your weight to 0, it will just load the *_0.nif straightaway, and same happens when you set your weight to 100: the game loads the *_1.nif and that's it. The thing is, if you set your weight to anything in between (0 < weight < 100), you are telling the game to interpolate between the two meshes giving more importance to the mesh you are closer to. So, weight 50 means an interpolation of the two meshes with equal priority (so the middle ground between the two), and for example weight 75 means interpolation composed of 75% of the _1 mesh and 25% of the _0 mesh (so it will look like the _1 mesh is starting to morph into the _0 mesh, but just 1/4 of the way). My point was, in Vanilla Skyrim, the _0 body mesh has different (meaning moved) neck/hand/feet seams than the _1 mesh (because the arms/legs/neck get thinner and so do the seam transition areas), but as all of those body parts also have their _0 versions fitted to the _0 body, they morph in "unison" as you move along the weight slider, and there are no seams/mismatches. In the case of the head, there is no "_0 and _1" meshes, but the _0 version fitted to the _0 body neck is included as another morph in the .tri file. I will look for the specifc name of said morph ASAP. So, let's say you get your game-ready/low(er) poly body mesh all weight painted, separated in torso/hands/feet, and ready. You would then take those meshes and modify them to achieve a different shape to build the _0 body. As I said, the standard is: _0 means skinny/not muscular/ no fat/ small attributes, and _1 means the opposite, so you can just take your current (_1) mesh and reduce said characteristics to obtain the _0 version. Then, you would probably end up with a different neck shape/position to better fit the smaller/skinnier body, so you take that head with the _0 neck shape and import it to the .tri as the "Weight" morph. I hope this is not confusing. Maybe BadDog or someone can explain it better if this is not clear enough . As for converting armor in BodySlide to fit, (I think that's what you mean) I've done it before but have not tested to see if I've done it right yet. I would rather see if I can get someone else to do while I get started on the male. I meant converting all of the Vanilla gear to use this body so you do not get visual bugs like neck/head or legs/feet mismatches or character's bodies changing shape when you equip something. I'm not sure if it can be done in Bodyslide since your body is not one of the integrated ones, I was thinking more on good ol' hand editing each vanilla armor/boot/whatever with 3DS Max or Blender to fit your bodies and get the best result. Of course, you can always ask other people for help or advice on this matter.
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Unfortunately, I have no experience in that yet and have not taken anything out of Zbrush either. Only modeling so far. Also, I've never seen a slider for the neck in RaceMenu, only the head height which lowers the head from the top part of the neck. Nor have I seen one in BodySlide. What are you using? I was talking about the "Weight" slider from Vanilla Skyrim. All of Skyrim's character meshes (body/feet/hands) have a *_0 .nif and a *_1.nif, and work in a similar way head morphs work, but with the "morphs" as separate .nif files instead of compressed into a .tri (the same consistency rules for morphs apply to them, you can only move polys around, you can't change polycount/weight painting). When you select your character's weight from 0 to 100, you are telling the game how do you want it to use those meshes. If you set your weight to 0, it will just load the *_0.nif straightaway, and same happens when you set your weight to 100: the game loads the *_1.nif and that's it. The thing is, if you set your weight to anything in between (0 < weight < 100), you are telling the game to interpolate between the two meshes giving more importance to the mesh you are closer to. So, weight 50 means an interpolation of the two meshes with equal priority (so the middle ground between the two), and for example weight 75 means interpolation composed of 75% of the _1 mesh and 25% of the _0 mesh (so it will look like the _1 mesh is starting to morph into the _0 mesh, but just 1/4 of the way). My point was, in Vanilla Skyrim, the _0 body mesh has different (meaning moved) neck/hand/feet seams than the _1 mesh (because the arms/legs/neck get thinner and so do the seam transition areas), but as all of those body parts also have their _0 versions fitted to the _0 body, they morph in "unison" as you move along the weight slider, and there are no seams/mismatches. In the case of the head, there is no "_0 and _1" meshes, but the _0 version fitted to the _0 body neck is included as another morph in the .tri file. I will look for the specifc name of said morph ASAP. So, let's say you get your game-ready/low(er) poly body mesh all weight painted, separated in torso/hands/feet, and ready. You would then take those meshes and modify them to achieve a different shape to build the _0 body. As I said, the standard is: _0 means skinny/not muscular/ no fat/ small attributes, and _1 means the opposite, so you can just take your current (_1) mesh and reduce said characteristics to obtain the _0 version. Then, you would probably end up with a different neck shape/position to better fit the smaller/skinnier body, so you take that head with the _0 neck shape and import it to the .tri as the "Weight" morph. I hope this is not confusing. Maybe BadDog or someone can explain it better if this is not clear enough . As for converting armor in BodySlide to fit, (I think that's what you mean) I've done it before but have not tested to see if I've done it right yet. I would rather see if I can get someone else to do while I get started on the male. I meant converting all of the Vanilla gear to use this body so you do not get visual bugs like neck/head or legs/feet mismatches or character's bodies changing shape when you equip something. I'm not sure if it can be done in Bodyslide since your body is not one of the integrated ones, I was thinking more on good ol' hand editing each vanilla armor/boot/whatever with 3DS Max or Blender to fit your bodies and get the best result. Of course, you can always ask other people for help or advice on this matter. Okay, will look into those more deeply after I finish with the body and teeth and before I make the body UV. Separating the feet and hands from the body will be simple. Slimming and smoothing it down for a 0_body, hands, and feet would be easy too. Pretty much a 1 day job. If making vanilla armor fit properly is easy, I will do it, if it's too time consuming, I will see if I can find someone else. However, I will try to see If I can make it work with BodySlider first. I don't suppose I can start a mod page on the Nexus with pictures and updates of the mod with "coming soon, help wanted," can I?
Blaze69 Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Okay, will look into those more deeply after I finish with the body and teeth and before I make the body UV. Separating the feet and hands from the body will be simple. Slimming and smoothing it down for a 0_body, hands, and feet would be easy too. Good to hear. BTW, I managed to find the "_0 neck" head morph, it's the "SkinnyMorph" in (Fe)MaleHeadKhajiit.tri. EDIT: about uploading just the body/head when they are done to LL and the Nexus while you work on everything else as an "WIP", you can do it just fine. It will raise awareness about the existance of the mod and may make Vanilla conversions easier if someone offers themselves to help you with it. Nevertheless, you should still "expect" to be the only one working on it, just in case, but I'm sure people will offer their help. Edited October 28, 2016 by Blaze69
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Okay, will look into those more deeply after I finish with the body and teeth and before I make the body UV. Separating the feet and hands from the body will be simple. Slimming and smoothing it down for a 0_body, hands, and feet would be easy too. Good to hear. BTW, I managed to find the "_0 neck" head morph, it's the "SkinnyMorph" in (Fe)MaleHeadKhajiit.tri. Thats odd, considdering the head.tri came with the neck. The neck also has a mmesh part of the head and one that isn't. Making the head with several different meshes made things difficult.
Blaze69 Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Thats odd, considdering the head.tri came with the neck. The neck also has a mmesh part of the head and one that isn't. It made things difficult. Could you elaborate? That is the way it's supposed to be, the neck is part of the head mesh, and so in order to get it to morph alongside the "_1 to _0" body thing, you just include the head fitted to the _0 body as the "SkinnyMorph" morph inside the .tri file, and the game takes care of the rest. Note that the morph restrictions are in effect, so in order to fit the standard (_1) head to the _0 body/neck seam, you can only move polys around as if it was another facial morph.
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Thats odd, considdering the head.tri came with the neck. The neck also has a mmesh part of the head and one that isn't. It made things difficult. Could you elaborate? That is the way it's supposed to be, the neck is part of the head mesh, and so in order to get it to morph alongside the "_1 to _0" body thing, you just include the head fitted to the _0 body as the "SkinnyMorph" morph inside the .tri file, and the game takes care of the rest. Okay, just thought a similar file would be incuded with Citrus since it too edits the head/neck by chaning polycount. But does not. No biggie.
Blaze69 Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Okay, just thought a similar file would be incuded with Citrus since it too edits the head/neck by chaning polycount. But does not. No biggie. What do you mean? CITRUS does include a FemaleHEadKhajiit.tri with said "SkinnyMorph" morph inside it. Look ath the output of TriExtractor when run on the CITRUS Female Khajiit .tri file: [INFO] (main): START PROCESS. [INFO] (main): Opening files: - <found> 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.tri' [INFO] (main): Try to save morphs to OBJ files: - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.txt' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Aah.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BigAah.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BlinkLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BlinkRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BMP.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowDownLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowDownRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowInLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowInRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowUpLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowUpRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_ChJSh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_CombatAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_CombatShout.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueDisgusted.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueFear.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueHappy.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialoguePuzzled.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueSad.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueSurprise.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DST.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Eee.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Eh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_FV.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_I.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_K.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookDown.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookUp.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodDisgusted.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodFear.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodHappy.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodPuzzled.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodSad.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodSurprise.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_N.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Oh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_OohQ.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_R.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SkinnyMorph.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SquintLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SquintRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Th.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_W.obj' <ok> [INFO] (main): Closing files: ... <done> [INFO] (main): PROCESS COMPLETE. Look at the fifth from the bottom. It's there. EDIT: are you using the Replacer version or the Standalone one? The Standalone may have different file names, but whatever .tri file comes with the Khajiit head has the "SkinnyMorph", I'm 100% sure about it. Edited October 28, 2016 by Blaze69
NightroModzz Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 Okay, just thought a similar file would be incuded with Citrus since it too edits the head/neck by chaning polycount. But does not. No biggie. What do you mean? CITRUS does include a FemaleHEadKhajiit.tri with said "SkinnyMorph" morph inside it. Look ath the output of TriExtractor when run on the CITRUS Female Khajiit .tri file: [INFO] (main): START PROCESS. [INFO] (main): Opening files: - <found> 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.tri' [INFO] (main): Try to save morphs to OBJ files: - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit.txt' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Aah.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BigAah.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BlinkLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BlinkRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BMP.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowDownLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowDownRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowInLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowInRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowUpLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_BrowUpRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_ChJSh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_CombatAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_CombatShout.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueDisgusted.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueFear.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueHappy.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialoguePuzzled.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueSad.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DialogueSurprise.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_DST.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Eee.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Eh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_FV.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_I.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_K.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookDown.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_LookUp.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodAnger.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodDisgusted.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodFear.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodHappy.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodPuzzled.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodSad.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_MoodSurprise.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_N.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Oh.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_OohQ.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_R.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SkinnyMorph.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SquintLeft.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_SquintRight.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_Th.obj' <ok> - 'D:\Games\Skyrim\KGTools\TRITools\Files\femaleheadkhajiit_W.obj' <ok> [INFO] (main): Closing files: ... <done> [INFO] (main): PROCESS COMPLETE. Look at the fifth from the bottom. It's there. EDIT: are you using the Replacer version or the Standalone one? The Standalone may have different file names, but whatever .tri file comes with the Khajiit head has the "SkinnyMorph", I'm 100% sure about it. Oh okay, thanks. See it. Guess I don't need it anyways though. Well good night. It's 4am and I have to leave at 12.
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