Poor playability after Main Quest?

[darkconsole]

you guys are right about it feeling dead. look at your quest stats in game and compare them to http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4_quests - i just did.

 

you will probably notice that you legit "finished" fallout 4 sans a few quests that got locked out by choosing a faction. i came here to start a new thread about this and ask what to do next but found this thread to cry in instead. unlike skyrim, apparently fo4 doesn't have much in way of "completely random retarded side quests that are connected to nothing and keep you busy finding new ones for years"

 

thinking about going full Luck now...

[GrimReaper]

Personally, I think Fallout 4 is the best Bethesda game since Morrowind. And that's just because they finally got the gameplay somewhat right, which was something even Morrowind lacked. As far as quests go, there are fewer than in Skyrim, but most of the bigger quests are well done for a Bethesda game. I particular liked The Big Dig and the Silvershroud ones. The choices were mostly binary, but that's still one choice more than you had in Skyrim.

[cossayos]

Well, Morrowind, at least for me, stood out for several reasons. It was the first open world game I played, apart from some shareware pixel adventures in the 90ies. So, there was a woorld to immerse myself in. But even while playing it, I was aware of some of it's shortcomings. For me, the non reactive world stood out in a negative way. Do what you want, but don't expect anyone to take note of your achievements. Even as Nerevarine you still would be treated like the new stable hand. Apart from the generic greeting. One of the reasons, I didn't even continue playing Morrowind after the main plot.

 

Back then I chalked it up to AI limitations. NPC still were mainly static after all and it wasn't that long, since 3d had made it's entrance into the gaming world. Today I know, it's Bethesda, not being willing or able to program their NPCs to be anything beyond generic. At least they're moving now, but that's the extent of it.

 

Can't say, FO4 is the best since Morrowind. It's still largely generic with an additional weakness introduced: Fully voiced characters. Do you notice that regardless of your replies, NPCs still stay on their track of what they say to you? You can tell Abernathy that he's pathetic and that his daughter deserved to die. It doesn't change one single bit. Same with the Piper introduction. Tell her you support or hate the press. It doesn't change anything.

 

I would choose FNV as the best. Done by Obsidian and only sailing under the Bethesda cover. Obsidian are much better story tellers than Bethesda will ever be. And, at least in my opinion, they also solved the main quest dilemma best. Do what you like, spend as much time enjoying yourself in that world, but once you enter the final stage of the main quest, the game lets you know, it's coming to a close. You've left your mark on the world, and honestly, I never saw any incentive to continue to do some more FedEx after that's done.

[GrimReaper]

Well, Morrowind, at least for me, stood out for several reasons. It was the first open world game I played, apart from some shareware pixel adventures in the 90ies. So, there was a woorld to immerse myself in. But even while playing it, I was aware of some of it's shortcomings. For me, the non reactive world stood out in a negative way. Do what you want, but don't expect anyone to take note of your achievements. Even as Nerevarine you still would be treated like the new stable hand. Apart from the generic greeting. One of the reasons, I didn't even continue playing Morrowind after the main plot.

 

Back then I chalked it up to AI limitations. NPC still were mainly static after all and it wasn't that long, since 3d had made it's entrance into the gaming world. Today I know, it's Bethesda, not being willing or able to program their NPCs to be anything beyond generic. At least they're moving now, but that's the extent of it.

 

Can't say, FO4 is the best since Morrowind. It's still largely generic with an additional weakness introduced: Fully voiced characters. Do you notice that regardless of your replies, NPCs still stay on their track of what they say to you? You can tell Abernathy that he's pathetic and that his daughter deserved to die. It doesn't change one single bit. Same with the Piper introduction. Tell her you support or hate the press. It doesn't change anything.

 

I would choose FNV as the best. Done by Obsidian and only sailing under the Bethesda cover. Obsidian are much better story tellers than Bethesda will ever be. And, at least in my opinion, they also solved the main quest dilemma best. Do what you like, spend as much time enjoying yourself in that world, but once you enter the final stage of the main quest, the game lets you know, it's coming to a close. You've left your mark on the world, and honestly, I never saw any incentive to continue to do some more FedEx after that's done.

 

I don't like this meme. It's pretty unfair, you know? Games from Bethesda still have the best generic NPCs in any game. Compare the fully interactive NPCs from Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3+4 to the ones from other big games. Witcher 3 has generic NPCs that get generated and despawned as needed, they ghost through each other and bump into the player if you stand in their way. There is zero AI apart from a very, very simple swarm AI that tells the NPCs to walk in a certain direction. GTA and Assassin's Creed work in the same way.

 

As far as dialogues go, well. If you play Morrowind again, you'll notice a few things.

 

1.) Many NPCs share the exact same lines, they are literally copy pasted across the board.

2.) Due to how the dialogue works, with certain words being highlighted and clickable, most of it reads like a page from a tourist guide.

3.) If people were angry with you, you could just throw gold in their faces to make them like you again.

 

 

 

 

 

[cossayos]

I don't like this meme. It's pretty unfair, you know? Games from Bethesda still have the best generic NPCs in any game. Compare the fully interactive NPCs from Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3+4 to the ones from other big games.

 

 

Whereas you got treated in such a memorable way when making head of any given guild in Oblivion or Skyrim. When you made it to be a respected member of the Jarl's household in Skyrim, the guards even showed their respect by saying "Hands to yourself, sneak thief". And when you made head of the mages guild, the mage recognized your achievement by advising you to join the mages guild.

 

Yeah, great NPC population in every Beth game. Today it's "Hope you're not a Synth" or "you got a dangerous look about you" or even, when they can't help acknowledging your role "You're with the minutemen, right?"

 

Oh, yes, other games have solved that problem way worse. It's hard to come up with such accurate reactions to everything you do in the world,

 

[GrimReaper]

Oh, I thought you were talking about the AI, not about the random comments NPCs make because they don't have much to do with the AI.

[billypnats]

I'd go far to say that if it wasn't for modding, fallout 4 on PC would bepretty much dead by now

[Kaz Aanh]

The reason why people adore and love Morrowind was about not the combat or copy pasted dialogues or clunky ass rpg system with weird leveling system.

 

But amazing political intrigue between the factions and fantastic, alien and never seen world to explore. It just felt like a fresh game, because it was so alien and strange. Giant mushroom trees, lizard people , black elves living in the gigantic monster shells, kwama mines where they were mining a eggss, forced and brutal colonization by pseudo-romans , culture clash between the races, giant city build on top of the water, strange diceaces , ancient dwemer ruins. I was so eager to explore everything, game world was simply interesting and wanted me to explore it.

 

I wasn't a generic medieval rpg with the dragons or fallout with yet-same-setting like previous fallout. I was hoping to see something more fresh, wasteland felt boring for me. There were few locations looking really nice but some like glowing sea was a wasted potential. Not to mention that bethesda broke lore so much, especially with the geck, jet.

 

I'd love to explore a post-apo jungle with mutated plants and creatures, meet some new stuff like crocodile-tribal men or scavenging through the overgrowth by nature cities. I wouldn't mind even some underwater content.

 

210 years and wasteland still looks like shit. It just feels like recycled content, also know as stagnation.

 

 

 

3.) If people were angry with you, you could just throw gold in their faces to make them like you again.

 

Also , its not like you can't quicksave , quickload during the charisma speech checks :^) , where mostly it results in "I will get 100 caps now instead of 75 !"

 

such well designed game

 

also caps as fallout currency after 210 years, where later ( ncr ) used gold/dollar already and caps were a temporary currency used by the traders. Basicaly every big faction used its own currencies, bethesda streamlined it into the caps only. Removing all unique culture aspects.

[Darkening Demise]

Titteh mods won't save Failout 4. I fear the next Elder Scrolls. I fear the future of Fallout and The Elder Scrolls all together.

[Guest Mogie56]

Maybe Pen and Paper RPG's are the answer, then everyone could write their own stories and not have to rely on a video game developers to do it for them. and the AI wouldn't be in the way so having NPC's standing in your way all the time would be non-existent. No game/combat mechanics or lack there of to worry about  Of course I doubt anyone would want to play a "single player" pen and paper RPG but it would give way to getting what you want, when you want. and isn't that the point, getting it your way without the greedy corporate slogs messing things up all the time putting out half baked content lacking cut in half games not worth the DLC's that are promised for them and no more worries about whether modding tools would be in the near future because the only modding tool you would need is a pen's ink refill. and just think, no more hardware upgrades every year to satisfy the lying SOB's with there unrealistic hardware requirements for graphics that look like there from the Space Invaders era. That would teach the fuckers.

But then of course website like The Nexus and LL would not exist long either.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

3.) If people were angry with you, you could just throw gold in their faces to make them like you again.

 

Also , its not like you can't quicksave , quickload during the charisma speech checks :^) , where mostly it results in "I will get 100 caps now instead of 75 !"

 

such well designed game

 

also caps as fallout currency after 210 years, where later ( ncr ) used gold/dollar already and caps were a temporary currency used by the traders. Basicaly every big faction used its own currencies, bethesda streamlined it into the caps only. Removing all unique culture aspects.

 

Savescumming is the bane of any game. I heard the only game that addresses this issue is Undertale, but I haven't played that game yet.

 

The lore of the Fallout universe was always a mess with no coherence. The devs weren't even sure if Ghouls were the result of the FEV, radiation or possibly both, they decided much later that it was just radiation.

 

Everything is a currency in Fallout since you can pay for everything with anything that has any value. You can buy ammo with drugs, weapons, scrap, other ammo, caps or pre-war money. Keep in mind that there are no big factions in the Boston wasteland, other than the institute which has no reason to use their own currency or any currency for that matter.

[Kaz Aanh]

 

 

 

3.) If people were angry with you, you could just throw gold in their faces to make them like you again.

 

Also , its not like you can't quicksave , quickload during the charisma speech checks :^) , where mostly it results in "I will get 100 caps now instead of 75 !"

 

such well designed game

 

also caps as fallout currency after 210 years, where later ( ncr ) used gold/dollar already and caps were a temporary currency used by the traders. Basicaly every big faction used its own currencies, bethesda streamlined it into the caps only. Removing all unique culture aspects.

 

Savescumming is the bane of any game. I heard the only game that addresses this issue is Undertale, but I haven't played that game yet.

 

The lore of the Fallout universe was always a mess with no coherence. The devs weren't even sure if Ghouls were the result of the FEV, radiation or possibly both, they decided much later that it was just radiation.

 

Everything is a currency in Fallout since you can pay for everything with anything that has any value. You can buy ammo with drugs, weapons, scrap, other ammo, caps or pre-war money. Keep in mind that there are no big factions in the Boston wasteland, other than the institute which has no reason to use their own currency or any currency for that matter.

 

 

Yeah i forget about that ghouls need to eat and most of them are unable to run. Its just Bethesda version of the lore. They have East Coast and let them keep it, they have done enough of damage already.

 

Leave West coast to the Obsidian.

[cossayos]

 

 

Savescumming is the bane of any game. I heard the only game that addresses this issue is Undertale, but I haven't played that game yet.

 

 

 

There are quite a few. Most recently, Pillars of Eternity on it's highest difficulty level. Only one save and that's deleted when you die.

[Benmc20]

I do not understand people who are still playing the games from Bethesda for quests. They must have to make a clean sandbox, without any hint of stupid quests. I try avoid all quest, just walk around and explore the world. And with the advent of the possibility of buildings, I spent many hours on it. Even hard to imagine what opportunities there will be when a CK to come out.

 

p.s. funny things... all negative fallout 4 reviews on steam, writen by people, who has over 1k hours on mindless games like a Counter Strike, Garry's Mod, DOTA and etc. but in their reviews, they write about the absence of rpg elements in f4.

Well, even if the main quest isn't so great (like the discovery of the boggymens though), some sidequests like ... ahem ... USS Constitution are worth the whole play of this game . 

 

Funny think same was with vanila skyrim, until dlc and shit load of mods happen. Fallout 4 is not  good but I belive it will be awesome latter

Fallout 4 is a sandbox with a LOT of improvement to come, by mods or DLC. Don't know if i'm alone on this, but, when exploring (il like the whole workshop part), i take note of some houses i would reopen ...

 

And need more vaults and linked quests too.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

There are quite a few. Most recently, Pillars of Eternity on it's highest difficulty level. Only one save and that's deleted when you die.

 

 

No. Disabling manual saves and/or relying on one single save file doesn't really deal with the issue. It prevents savescumming, yes, but that's like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Making several saves is essential to prevent save game corruption or bugs that screw with your game. Undertale knows when you try to reload to pick a different choice, much like Psycho Mantis in MGS could read your controller input and save files. The Witcher tried a different approach to make savescumming unviable, by delaying the consequences of your choices by several hours - which had its own issues. It wasn't always appropiate to do so and could destroy your immersion and the atmosphere of the game, because sometimes, the consequences should follow shortly after your choice. Sometimes it felt like watching a TV series where the latest episode picked up an episode that aired several seasons ago.

 

 

 

 

Yeah i forget about that ghouls need to eat and most of them are unable to run. Its just Bethesda version of the lore. They have East Coast and let them keep it, they have done enough of damage already.

 

Leave West coast to the Obsidian.

 

 

Like I said, Fallout doesn't really have a coherent lore. There are many holes and inconsistencies to be found, and that was before Bethesda bought ownership of the franchise. Claiming Bethesda brings ruin to everything they touch is a meme. Which is sad because there are valid points to criticize Bethesda, as with any publisher or developer. But almost every topic about any Bethesda game is always about it's literally wrong if Bethesda did it, but totally fine if someone else did it.

[ANGRYWOLVERINE]

I think F4 will be improved later. 

It will never be as popular  as Skyrim.I don't understand how anyone ever thought it would be although some people claimed it would surpass Skyrim.

 

We're waiting on the GECK and I wonder why no announcement on its release date.

[cossayos]

I think F4 will be improved later. 

It will never be as popular  as Skyrim.I don't understand how anyone ever thought it would be although some people claimed it would surpass Skyrim.

 

We're waiting on the GECK and I wonder why no announcement on its release date.

 

Well, there's always the hype. People buying into every PR statement ever made. They're probably buying their toilet paper too based on the most shiny adverts. Advertising always tells the truth after all.

 

And it's not as if it had been any better with Skyrim. People celebrated it like the second coming when all they had to go on were a few screenshots.

 

Truth is, both are Bethesda games and if you expected that, there's no reason to be dissapointed. The reason why Skyrim may still be popular are the mods. Personally, I haven't touched it in years. I plan on doing it, but I didn't get the knack so far.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

We're waiting on the GECK and I wonder why no announcement on its release date.

 

If they follow the schedule they did with Skyrim, expect it sometime in February. But don't hold me to it; that's speculation and Bethesda has been holding their cards closer to their chest than ever.

 

This isn't necessarily related, but it should be mentioned: The GECK will be PC only. Mods will have to be made on a PC. That's straight from the horse's (or horse's ass) mouth, Pete Hines. Any mods distributed through the Bethesda.net platform will be compatible on PC and consoles alike. I'm not sure how Bethesda.net will work, or how mods made on PCs will be ensured to be compatible with a PS4 or XBOX One. [sarcasm]But surely they'll make it all work out. [/sarcasm] Can anyone else spot the numerous flaws in Bethesda's ambitious plans?

[DocClox]

The reason why people adore and love Morrowind was about not the combat or copy pasted dialogues or clunky ass rpg system with weird leveling system.

 

But amazing political intrigue between the factions and fantastic, alien and never seen world to explore. It just felt like a fresh game, because it was so alien and strange. Giant mushroom trees, lizard people , black elves living in the gigantic monster shells, kwama mines where they were mining a eggss, forced and brutal colonization by pseudo-romans , culture clash between the races, giant city build on top of the water, strange diceaces , ancient dwemer ruins. I was so eager to explore everything, game world was simply interesting and wanted me to explore it.

 

Also incredibly deep lore, no arbitrary restrictions on what you can do, and a wealth of ways to describe your character to the game without the game ever once trying to tell you who you were, what you wanted or how you felt about something. (It did tell who the rest of the world thought you were, which is fair enough).

 

Also, one of the best magic systems ever. Fly over mountains, teleport out of the middle of dungeons, invent y our own magical items, boost your stats until you bestride the world like unto the Gods Themselves? Yeah, sure, why not?

 

Nothing they've done since has come close.

[Karin]

 

I do not understand people who are still playing the games from Bethesda for quests. They must have to make a clean sandbox, without any hint of stupid quests. I try avoid all quest, just walk around and explore the world. And with the advent of the possibility of buildings, I spent many hours on it. Even hard to imagine what opportunities there will be when a CK to come out.

 

p.s. funny things... all negative fallout 4 reviews on steam, writen by people, who has over 1k hours on mindless games like a Counter Strike, Garry's Mod, DOTA and etc. but in their reviews, they write about the absence of rpg elements in f4.

Well, even if the main quest isn't so great (like the discovery of the boggymens though), some sidequests like ... ahem ... USS Constitution are worth the whole play of this game . 

 

Funny think same was with vanila skyrim, until dlc and shit load of mods happen. Fallout 4 is not  good but I belive it will be awesome latter

Fallout 4 is a sandbox with a LOT of improvement to come, by mods or DLC. Don't know if i'm alone on this, but, when exploring (il like the whole workshop part), i take note of some houses i would reopen ...

 

And need more vaults and linked quests too.

 

 

Awesome world but atm kinda empty, and builing is awesome but it need better UI I hope too more quest and I want build vault or even more item for builing like pre war

 

[Benmc20]

 

 

I do not understand people who are still playing the games from Bethesda for quests. They must have to make a clean sandbox, without any hint of stupid quests. I try avoid all quest, just walk around and explore the world. And with the advent of the possibility of buildings, I spent many hours on it. Even hard to imagine what opportunities there will be when a CK to come out.

 

p.s. funny things... all negative fallout 4 reviews on steam, writen by people, who has over 1k hours on mindless games like a Counter Strike, Garry's Mod, DOTA and etc. but in their reviews, they write about the absence of rpg elements in f4.

Well, even if the main quest isn't so great (like the discovery of the boggymens though), some sidequests like ... ahem ... USS Constitution are worth the whole play of this game . 

 

Funny think same was with vanila skyrim, until dlc and shit load of mods happen. Fallout 4 is not  good but I belive it will be awesome latter

Fallout 4 is a sandbox with a LOT of improvement to come, by mods or DLC. Don't know if i'm alone on this, but, when exploring (il like the whole workshop part), i take note of some houses i would reopen ...

 

And need more vaults and linked quests too.

 

 

Awesome world but atm kinda empty, and builing is awesome but it need better UI I hope too more quest and I want build vault or even more item for builing like pre war

 

Im not alone I'll suggest this to Novacoru see if, with the G.E.C.K, she can do some miracle . And, as for pre-war items, Homemaker add a lot of them actually. I hope more to come, but we'll see ...

[skeletor]

For me biggest immersion breaker was, seeing your spouse killed and child kidnapped. Makes me feel like the most important thing to do is find my son. And not do any other shit. Why the fuck would I want to go off wandering exploring or planting plants and making beds for Preston and his group of "cant make my own bed"? (yes I know for gameplay reasons) When the only way to find clues is to do the main quest.

 

If they made it where the institute came and took your spouse with the child. Kellog wouldnt have a reason to kill anybody in front of you. I wouldnt feel rushed to find them. More like why the fuck did they leave me in pod?

The spouse can still die for X amount of reasons , like old age.

 

This way its EASIER to trick my self of thinking; well I dont have any clues so Im gonna help these people. Then at some point do the main quest. Yes you can do that now, but its really hard to get into that way of thinking. Considering I just saw my spouse get shot and baby stolen.

[cossayos]

For me biggest immersion breaker was, seeing your spouse killed and child kidnapped. Makes me feel like the most important thing to do is find my son. And not do any other shit. Why the fuck would I want to go off wandering exploring or planting plants and making beds for Preston and his group of "cant make my own bed"? (yes I know for gameplay reasons) When the only way to find clues is to do the main quest.

 

It's an immersion breaker because you're not supposed to know that 60 years have passed since the events. If you knew right from the start, it would make things a lot easier. But somehow they wanted to cross the bridge between urgency and letting you do whatever you're up to. Didn't work.

 

Also I miss the "don't give a damn" or "don't wanna talk about" options whenever spouse or kid crops up in some conversations. And somehow, even when the option happens to be there, people tend to be telepaths. I never talked to whiny Jon Lun nor anyone at Sanctuary about it, yet somehow he goes "hope you find your son".

[Kimy]

For me biggest immersion breaker was, seeing your spouse killed and child kidnapped. Makes me feel like the most important thing to do is find my son. And not do any other shit. Why the fuck would I want to go off wandering exploring or planting plants and making beds for Preston and his group of "cant make my own bed"? (yes I know for gameplay reasons) When the only way to find clues is to do the main quest.

 

 

 

See it that way: You're a transplant from another time and have absolutely zero clue what happened in the past 200 years and how to survive there. Before you can look for your son, you need to make sure you survive in a hostile environment first. Which is why it -does- make sense getting acquainted with one of the groups first because in contrast to you, they know how to survive in the Wasteland. You also cannot get into the Institute without help, either. If you help Preston to save all these settlements, you make him owe you help finding your son, after all.

As long as you -sort of- follow the main quest and not wander around too much, it's still probably what the Sole Survivor would realistically do. No, she probably wouldn't look into every nook and cranny as long as she hasn't found her son. But that's your decision to play the game like that. You can still look in said nooks and crannies after finishing the main quest and it would be realistic (at least as long as you're not staying with the Institute, in which case you indeed would nave no reason to go tomb raiding).

 

 

[DocClox]

See, my problems is that if I put myself in that role, I don't want to learn how to survive - I just want to find the brat. And that clashes with me wanting to play the game. Taking time to learn about the environment might make more sense,  but I can't do that and believe in the character I'm portraying. That's what I mean when I say the senario is over-motivating. It doesn't give me nearly enough wriggle room, and I end up ignoring the RP aspect entirely.

 

Honestly, I don't know what they were thinking at Bethesda. I mean was one of the designers a brand new dad or something, and determined to share that feeling with the world?  They're normally so good about things like this.