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Poor playability after Main Quest?


DFSL

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After putting hundreds of hours with my first character the game feels really like a dead end to me, in a way I never thought possible from a Bethesda product. While in Skyrim and previous games unfinished quests would clutter my journal, in Fallout 4 there's but a single line for me, the repetitive Minuteman "defend/rescue/clear the location" errands and absolutely nothing more.The game simply doesn't agree at all with the premise of leveling up and exploring most of the map first and then questing.  You can feel the rough edges when you stumble upon a location and quests are started or finished automatically in a very rough way not seen in the older games. It's a fantastic letdown.

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I have the same problem. After finishing main quest (wich was a huge disapoinment in its own way) i did about 5 minutmen and railroad quest and just quit the game. Did not played since. For me its the worst bathestha game i have ever played. Honestly i don't even see sexmods improving the situation much.

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Feel completely letdown as well.

 

Much less content (expect for people or things shooting at you).

 

Poor RPG (I'm forced to play a father who is a military veteran, or a mother who his the said veteran's housewife,

 

Not as intriguing. That's less obvious. But the FO4 world content is not only smaller. Is also shallow. There are a lot more random NPCs (settlers) and fewer named ones. Try to compare the how intriguing it was the first time you entered Whiterun and all the people and the stories you encountered there. Now thing of diamond city...

Back to Skyrim.... 

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I don't know. For me, it has been that way with every Bethesda game. The fetch and carry quests really don't make up for lack of story content and there hasn't been a single Bethesda game where the NPCs had reacted to your achievements.

 

Personally, I found the FNV approach to be best. Linger as long as you want, but if you enter the last stage of the main quest, the game let's you know, it's the point of no return. Of course, that has been Obsidian, but I never understood the fascination with playing an endless string of meaningless and repetitive quests anyway.

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Fetch and carry quest are the quickest to implement, Bethesda seems to have not gotten the biggest motivator for side quests; Curiosity and discovery! Any quest that requires you to investigate or discovery something are key, because the player WANTS to learn more, they want to push on, they want to complete them. Of course some of them Will say this distracts you from the main story. I can't argue there as I've only every completed Fallout 3 on the main story to date .

 

(Yes I have played Oblivion, FNV and Skyrim - I enjoying the freedom to explore more than I do about completing it)

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I thought it was clear by now that Bethesda doesn't make games, anymore; they make modding platforms.

 

I honestly can't play this game for longer than 5 minutes before I lose interest.  I haven't even beaten the main story since I know that no matter what I do, I'm going to be stuck with one or two endings.  I really hope Obsidian comes along and makes an actually good game with this engine, since it has potential.

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Ahem... The engine has potential, you say? It's a modified Gamebryo derivative. Even without being a modder I can see the limits in its inherited quirks and bugs. The gameworld is largely static and the few moving vehicles are more props than anything.

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Isn't that kinda the issue with most RPGs out there? That once you finished them, you are well...finished? Which is why modding is indeed the only way to keep such a game alive for any substantial amount of time. At least Bethesda has realized that longevity is just another word for "modding support". Most other studios didn't. I am pretty sure once the CK is out we will get a steady flow of new content, just like with any other Beth game.

 

As for the "It's not an RPG" argument: Compared to Skyrim your role in FO4 is much more predesigned, yes. Compared to say, The Witcher, which forces a completely prerolled character on you, with fixed looks, fixed gender, fixed personality, fixed background and absolutely ZERO room for your own character development, FO4 is writer's heaven. Yes, in FO4 I am playing a housewife. That's what most women in the 1940s were, so it's not that it would restrict my own take on my character a lot within FO4's setting. Other than that I can still develop and imagine her in ways I see fit. Funnily enough nobody has ever accused The Witcher of not being a RPG despite most arguments people raise against FO4 apply 10 times more to that game.

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Back to Skyrim.... 

 

I wish I could go back to Skyrim but that hard drive died and took all my Skyrim life with it. Now I'm here trying to tell myself that Fallout 4 will hold my attention for as long as Skyrim did...so far, not so good. For me, the map just isn't interesting and it's small.

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Guest Katherlne

I do not understand people who are still playing the games from Bethesda for quests. They must have to make a clean sandbox, without any hint of stupid quests. I try avoid all quest, just walk around and explore the world. And with the advent of the possibility of buildings, I spent many hours on it. Even hard to imagine what opportunities there will be when a CK to come out.

 

p.s. funny things... all negative fallout 4 reviews on steam, writen by people, who has over 1k hours on mindless games like a Counter Strike, Garry's Mod, DOTA and etc. but in their reviews, they write about the absence of rpg elements in f4.

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I do not understand people who are still playing the games from Bethesda for quests.

It is something that they've traditionally been very good at.

 

p.s. funny things... all negative fallout 4 reviews on steam, writen by people, who has over 1k hours on mindless games like a Counter Strike, Garry's Mod, DOTA and etc. but in their reviews, they write about the absence of rpg elements in f4.

Well, I probably have over 1k hours in Bethesda games, from Morrowind to F4. I've never played Counterstrike in my life. And I also think that F4 has a lot less support for roleplaying than I'm accustomed to finding in Bethesda games. For whatever that may be worth.

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I solved this problem by creating a new character and not doing the main questline at all.

 

You are referred to as a "scavver" and aren't famous for the most part, synths aren't everywhere and I have yet to encounter the BoS at all.

It's a pretty nice game like that.

 

But I believe that the biggest problem people have with FO4 is that they aren't playing it right.

Turn the difficulty to survival, and leave it there.

 

Of course, you will have to run away at times, you will have to use cooking, chems, and crafting.

You might have to save to buy that shiny Legendary gun too.  You will have to buy ammo from merchants.

 

You might actually have to use those landmines filling up your inventory--and you won't be able to just bowl through every hornet's nest of bullshit you stumble across traveling the wasteland either.

 

But the best perk of high difficulty is not being able to complete some quests (immediately) because you are too weak.

 

 

 

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But I believe that the biggest problem people have with FO4 is that they aren't playing it right.

Turn the difficulty to survival, and leave it there.

 

 

There is no "right" way to play a RPG. Yes, I realize that playing at higher difficulty slows down your progress and thus creates the -illusion- of longer gameplay. But that's only because you have to play a lot of fights multiple times to finally win and be able to continue.

Personally? Difficulty does nothing for me. Never has, never will. It doesn't satisfy me to overcome challenges in video games and I usually quit games if I find them too hard. I just want to experience a good story and explore the world. Frustrating fights are literally distracting me from doing that. I tend to set the difficulty so that I have to pay some attention to what I am doing, but usually never have to repeat a fight. In most games, that's "normal" or even "easy".

 

My personal way to try to get out as much as possible of FO4? I try to explore every nook and cranny there is. This is also fairly time-consuming in Beth games, trust me. Oh, that and rolling another character and try out all the other dialogue options. There are many ways to have fun with a RPG. ;)

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I solved this problem by creating a new character and not doing the main questline at all.

 

Turn the difficulty to survival, and leave it there.

 

I agree with these two statements immensely.  I have 700+ hours in Fallout 4 to date, and I'm in my fourth play through (recognize from that how many hours per play through).

 

On my fourth play through I finally thought to change the difficulty to survival, and holy cow that's fun! I absolutely love it.

 

For each play through I also take plot lines in different directions, and I am amazed how different what happens to me is based on my decisions. It's like different games if I pick different factions or make different choices.

 

And I love the characters. I make a point to work up maximum affinity on all side characters, and I try my best to delay main quest lines and explore randomly. The game is smart enough to adjust quests based on serendipity rather than following a preset path.

 

For those who think Fallout 4 is shallow, I think they are ignoring the wealth of detail, immersion and story that's hidden in places following a quest does not take them. They probably do not enter random houses and buildings and read the story behind it, and they probably don't even notice all the hidden Easter eggs. For instance, they might not spot a sink with a sign next to it which says "Employees must wash hands before returning to work." And then they probably don't notice the two skeletal hands in the sink.

 

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It's pretty much the same as FO3 and FNV, no?  Getting to FNV's ending seems the fastest to me.  Then again, just about all RPG games I know, once you finish the storyline, there is little or nothing left but roaming around.  Some games offer the ability to continue some quests you haven't finished.  The excitement is gone.

 

With a mod friendly game like Fallout, you can rest assured, in time the modding community will add content to either expand on the game, add new stuff or give you something to work with if you are a heavy role player and kind of make things up as you go.

 

When it comes to side quests, if you do them before the ending of the game, it's likely you will have so much content that it will more than make up for a full game...or a few. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I think FO4 is great and has a ton of content.  There's more coming.

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It is something that they've traditionally been very good at.

 

 

 

They've been good at quests? What did I miss in all these years?

 

Apart from a rather short main quest, all their games have been giant FedEx simulators. Since Oblivion I never bought their games for their quests but for what the modders turned them into. So the earlier remark about Bethesda games being modding platforms, kind of hits the nail.

 

 

 

 

I agree with these two statements immensely.  I have 700+ hours in Fallout 4 to date, and I'm in my fourth play through (recognize from that how many hours per play through).

 

On my fourth play through I finally thought to change the difficulty to survival, and holy cow that's fun! I absolutely love it.

 

 

 

 

I've clocked off 600 hours myself, but now the steam has run out and I haven't touched it in weeks.

 

I guess, you play it like a shooter. Personally, I didn't find the higher difficulties the least bit satisfying. Enemies don't smarten up, they just turn into bullet sponges, using the same stupid tactics. It just takes longer to kille them and you get killed more often. As opposed to other games, this isn't what I call a challenge.

 

 

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It is something that they've traditionally been very good at.

 

They've been good at quests? What did I miss in all these years?

 

Apart from a rather short main quest, all their games have been giant FedEx simulators. Since Oblivion I never bought their games for their quests but for what the modders turned them into. So the earlier remark about Bethesda games being modding platforms, kind of hits the nail.

 

Well I wouldn't call the Morrowind MQ short. Oblivion's was shorter, but still respectable, I'd have thought. F3 could have been longer certainly. Skyrim ... didn't feel short, particularly. Although it could just be that going down into Blackreach to get the scroll takes time to complete. F4, yeah, that feels short.

 

FedEx simulators? Well, the fetch-and-carry quest is always going to be a mainstay of the open world game. They provide a good way to get the player to visit different parts of the world and/or to introduce them to interesting and important NPCs. Even Morrowind had its share of "Get Manwe to pay her guild dues" quests. The ones in Skyrim were a little uninspired though, and you really did feel like a courier at times. Still, I wouldn't mark a game down purely because it had a proportion of fetch-and-carries.

 

Balanced against that, Beth usually give us a number of more complex and interesting quests to go with the purely legwork ones. In Oblivion there was, A Game At Dinner (where you have to kill the dinner guests without anyone seeing you), A Shadow Over Hackdirt (some interesting and unexpected investigation work), staying with the Lovecraft influence there was a journal based quest, The Deep One where you follow fragments from a diary to uncover a storm atronach trapped in cavern, and on the MQ the process of  infiltrating the mythic Dawn, from working out the code in the Commentaries to trying to save the sacrifice while you escape from the cavern. I'm sure I can find more if you want. In F3 there was the Republic of Dave where you get to rig an election, and Those which mixed a tough fight with some interesting investigation work. Also, on the MQ, Tranquillity Lanes, which was about as far from a fetch and carry as you can get.

 

Now if you want to argue that the number and quality of their quests have been in general decline lately, I'll probably agree with you.

 

But yeah, traditionally, quest writing is something they've been rather good at.

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Now if you want to argue that the number and quality of their quests have been in general decline lately, I'll probably agree with you.

 

But yeah, traditionally, quest writing is something they've been rather good at.

 

 

Note that I said since Oblivion. In Morrowind, as far as memory serves, you could even solve side quests in different and sometimes non violent ways. It started to decline with Oblivion and it's a downhill race since then.

 

Same goes for the main quests. A rather complicated string in Morrowind. Rather straigtforward and frankly not very interesting in Oblivion. In FO3 it was only four or five related quests till you were done. The rest was FedEx. Skyrim? Well, you needed to be at a certain level to survive, but other than that, you could be done with the main in 6 to 8 hours tops.

 

FO4 seems to be longer, but taking a close look, it only seems longer since the various factions hand out their FedEx quests too before you can move on with the actual story.

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I played 200 hours and explored so pretty much every building in the game and every room in these buildings. After finishing all quests i just started exploring all now that i did i stopped playing. Waiting for the dlc and g.e.c.k and then i propably wait until ppl release some good mods what takes another month after the geck release. Waiting for real sexy clothes and hairstyles real weapons like ak47 all completely moddable a settler overhaul a crafting overhaul many overhauls :D. Then i start a another playthrough. 

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Now if you want to argue that the number and quality of their quests have been in general decline lately, I'll probably agree with you.

 

But yeah, traditionally, quest writing is something they've been rather good at.

 

Note that I said since Oblivion. In Morrowind, as far as memory serves, you could even solve side quests in different and sometimes non violent ways. It started to decline with Oblivion and it's a downhill race since then.

 

 

Oh, I know. but you also said:

 

They've been good at quests? What did I miss in all these years?

 

Apart from a rather short main quest, all their games have been giant FedEx simulators

... which made it sound like you thought they'd always been bad in all their games. Add to that the fact that you were taking issue with my assertion that traditionally they've been good at quests and it wasn't at all clear if you regarded them as being universally bad or merely in decline. I tried not to make any assumptions.

 

Same goes for the main quests. A rather complicated string in Morrowind. Rather straigtforward and frankly not very interesting in Oblivion. In FO3 it was only four or five related quests till you were done. The rest was FedEx. Skyrim? Well, you needed to be at a certain level to survive, but other than that, you could be done with the main in 6 to 8 hours tops.

Personally, I think Oblivion is vastly underrated. They took a lot of (entirely justified) flak for the cabbage patch doll faces and for generally playing it so safe with the setting after the glorious alien weirdness of Morrowind, and the level scaling really didn't work well at all with the Morrowind skill point system., I think those factors soured a lot of people on what is at heart still a very good game. Still, it's very much a matter of personal taste and not really worth arguing over.

 

But certainly, Morrowind was a high point, and I agree that it has been downhill ever since. I don't like the direction Beth have been going in, and F4 does nothing to set my mind at rest.

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... which made it sound like you thought they'd always been bad in all their games. Add to that the fact that you were taking issue with my assertion that traditionally they've been good at quests and it wasn't at all clear if you regarded them as being universally bad or merely in decline. I tried not to make any assumptions.

 

 

 

Well, nearly 14 years since Morrowind. So, all these years seems kind of justified.

 

The fact that a company once was good at something only counts as long as they continue to be good. Or if one bad example arises amidst a sea of otherwise well made plots.

 

Do you know, there was a time when I bought EA games blindly? They've been rather good at what they did some 15 years ago. Now I'd rather go blind than touch anything bearing the EA logo, since they turned into a shameless money grabbing machinery, drawing a lot of studios and franchises with them into the gutter.

 

So, what I mean, fame only takes you so far. The only reason why I still keep buying Beth games is their continued modding support. I fully expect to get an enjoyable but rather bland experience with their vanilla games and so I don't go bitching and moaning about their PR statements not rising up to reality. But that's about it. If they were a closed system with modders being out of the loop, I certainly wouldn't spend my money.

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... which made it sound like you thought they'd always been bad in all their games. Add to that the fact that you were taking issue with my assertion that traditionally they've been good at quests and it wasn't at all clear if you regarded them as being universally bad or merely in decline. I tried not to make any assumptions.

 

Well, nearly 14 years since Morrowind. So, all these years seems kind of justified.

 

I'm just saying it wasn't at all clear what you meant, is all. Other than that (and possibly a quibble over the meaning of "traditionally") I think we're in broad agreement.

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