Naturalistic HDT

[MrKrupples]

Some things I couldn't figure out from other discussions in this thread:

 

Regarding, say, boobs...

Since Spring Constants seem to make boobs "resist the pull of gravity" and bounce more vigorously, I suppose this happens because the breasts react more strongly to any movement?  The body moves, the breasts are pulled along, the body stops, and the breasts "spring" back "harder" with a higher spring constant?  Even though you've recommended that users seeking more jiggling reduce mass, would this mean that a higher mass + a higher spring constant would result in more extreme movement?  Essentially, more force to the movement of the breasts, and therefore more violent bouncing, though less ability to jiggle ambiently since the breasts are more difficult to move in the first place with a higher mass.

 

Conversely, would a high spring constant + a low mass result in smaller movements?  Even if the breasts are attempting to jiggle all over the place, with a low mass they won't have much force behind them, which combined with a high sort of springy resistance could make it hard for the breasts to move around very much before bouncing back opposite the way they were moving.

 

Then there's the question of the way the time factor comes into play here.  Since you've mentioned that it interacts with other settings, I assume it's more than a speed up/slow down parameter for the ultimate motion the breasts exhibit.  I would guess that higher values make the velocity end up higher before things like constraint motors act on the boobs.  I can't really see a way for higher velocity to result in anything but more bounciness.

[Bazinga]

Great questions, and I'll try to answer them as far as I can.

Since Spring Constants seem to make boobs "resist the pull of gravity" and bounce more vigorously, I suppose this happens because the breasts react more strongly to any movement?  The body moves, the breasts are pulled along, the body stops, and the breasts "spring" back "harder" with a higher spring constant?

Correct. The spring basically works against any deformation of the original shape. It only affects linear deformations though, twisted or rotated breasts and stuff like that have their own settings (that I only use in small doses because rotational movements get out of control way too fast in HDT PE).

There are interactions between both types of motion though, and maybe that's the reason why using both often creates problems.

 

Even though you've recommended that users seeking more jiggling reduce mass, would this mean that a higher mass + a higher spring constant would result in more extreme movement?  Essentially, more force to the movement of the breasts, and therefore more violent bouncing, though less ability to jiggle ambiently since the breasts are more difficult to move in the first place with a higher mass.

Yeah, that's the problem with using everyday language to describe something precise like physics. I should have defined what I even mean with "more jiggling".

 

So I recommended to reduce the mass because then the moment of inertia gets smaller too, meaning while the initial acceleration/speed will be higher the springs also have it easier to work against the movement imposed on the breasts (or butt or whatever) by the animation the character is doing at the time. So the mesh will react faster and bounce back faster too.

The downside is that it will have less sway or maximum displacement.

 

Be aware that higher mass and higher spring constant just cancel each other out. I can't remember the exact ratio though. And the collision box shape also comes into play, because the bigger its volume the bigger the inertia tensor values (meaning mass is probably more like mass density) and the more difficult it is for the springs to work against the movement.

 

Conversely, would a high spring constant + a low mass result in smaller movements?  Even if the breasts are attempting to jiggle all over the place, with a low mass they won't have much force behind them, which combined with a high sort of springy resistance could make it hard for the breasts to move around very much before bouncing back opposite the way they were moving.

Exactly. In fact that's how I did the no bouncing but collisions preset for the belly in my mod. I just reduced the mass to pretty much zero so the springs can hold the collision box (which is attached to the belly part of the mesh) firmly in place.

 

Then there's the question of the way the time factor comes into play here.  Since you've mentioned that it interacts with other settings, I assume it's more than a speed up/slow down parameter for the ultimate motion the breasts exhibit.  I would guess that higher values make the velocity end up higher before things like constraint motors act on the boobs.  I can't really see a way for higher velocity to result in anything but more bounciness.

I think it's a bit like the slow motion or fast forward setting for a movie. With increased time factor the initial movement caused by the character animation is faster and the breasts also bounce back faster, but not with higher maximum displacement. And they take longer to stop, so that's different from  a simple speed-up of the same exact process. So you might also have to increase the linear damping values after increasing the time factor to arrive at the same total jiggle time.

 

The bouncing frequency might have a direct correlation to the time factor.

 

I don't know about the underlying mechanics and calculations, I never looked under the hood. So I suggest you just test with different values and see where it leads you. 

[MrKrupples]

That helps a lot!

 

I got some settings I'm happy with for extremely large breasts that sag believably.  I increased mass and spring constants, and slightly decreased spring dampening.  This sort of resulted in more sway, and bigger motions that play out a couple jiggles before getting dampened off.  

I'm still trying for a nice taught-and-bouncy butt effect by dampening it hard while trying to get motions going as quick as possible.  Hopefully I can manage some really short, energetic jiggles.

 

Here are some pictures of your collision boundaries being amazing!

 

Forearm squish down

 

 

 

 

Forearm squish up

 

 

 

 

[Bazinga]

Nice, and glad I could help.

If you want more sway you can also influence that by increasing the linear limits settings btw.

I think the box you set up there is where the springs are attached to. So they are pointing inward from each face of the box and acting as sort of a cushion between the box and the collision shape, trying to hold it in the position you defined in the rigidbody settings.

[JDG973]

Bazinga, is there anyway to decrease the jiggle in the belly compared to anywhere else if JFF? I want to tweak it to wear it's a little fast and barely noticeable, but still keep my collisions.

 

I also, i know you said that it's recommended to use your repainted mesh, but do you have a regular UUNP HDT mesh with the repaints or a method to transfer those repaints from your custom UUNP Special to the UUNP HDT mesh?

[Bazinga]

I have a few difficulties to understand what you're saying but I'll try to answer anyway:

 

So you want the belly jiggle fast and barely noticable (I suppose the "wear" was meant to be a "where"), right?

I think that's pretty easy to do, just reduce the mass in the NPC Belly rigidbody. That should have the desired effect.

 

I don't know what you mean in the second part though. I hope you are not really planning to play with the pussy-less UUNP HDT body, but that you meant the UUNP Special one instead.

For that body type I have two different UUNP source meshes for Bodyslide included in my mod, one with more weight paint and one with the original weight paint. Both have the necessary xml files attached so both work with my physics settings without problems. The one I repainted imo has nicer jiggling though and I also fixed a few issues with the original UUNP Special body. The other one is that original UUNP Special body without the fixes and only with the xml paths updated for my mod.

[JDG973]

I have a few difficulties to understand what you're saying but I'll try to answer anyway:

 

So you want the belly jiggle fast and barely noticable (I suppose the "wear" was meant to be a "where"), right?

I think that's pretty easy to do, just reduce the mass in the NPC Belly rigidbody. That should have the desired effect.

Whoops, yeah i meant to put "where" there.

Sounds simple enough, thanks.

 

 

I don't know what you mean in the second part though. I hope you are not really planning to play with the pussy-less UUNP HDT body, but that you meant the UUNP Special one instead.

 

Actually yeah, that is, if there is no inherit problems transferring new weight paints from UUNP Special to UUNP HDT, i just don't know how to do that yet.

[nitras]

Any idea why I cannto download any files from this mod?

 

I have "Sorry, we couldn't find that!" on every file.

 

I was trying downlaod all your files Bazinga, and have this problem.

[Bazinga]

Any idea why I cannto download any files from this mod?

 

I have "Sorry, we couldn't find that!" on every file.

 

I was trying downlaod all your files Bazinga, and have this problem.

Botched server upgrade. See here.

 

I reuploaded Naturalistic 3.56, Beast HDT 0.51, the collisions for B3lisario's UNP Addon and the UUNP Piercings repaints. Hopefully Ashal will fix the rest of the links.

 

@ to whoever contacted me via PM: Sorry, couldn't make sense of your message (English obviously isn't your first language) so I just deleted it. Anyway, thanks for trying to tell me about this issue.

[nitras]

Thanks Bazinga!

[Bazinga]

 

I don't know what you mean in the second part though. I hope you are not really planning to play with the pussy-less UUNP HDT body, but that you meant the UUNP Special one instead.

 

Actually yeah, that is, if there is no inherit problems transferring new weight paints from UUNP Special to UUNP HDT, i just don't know how to do that yet.

 

Ok, if you insist.

Transfering weight paints is pretty easy and I wanted to write a tutorial for it anyway. My evil masterplan was to enable people to update those jewelry and Devious Devices meshes for my repaint themselves so I don't have to do the work, hehe. 

But for some reason I never got around to doing it.

 

So, here's a quick and dirty how to for updating the UUNP HDT mesh with my repaint:

 

First open Bodyslide through your mod manager. Then from there open Outfit Studio (lower right corner).

Choose 'File' -> 'New Project'

 

Now load my repainted body mesh as reference shape. Load it from file. When using MO you probably have to locate the file in the real file system of your hard drive since Bodyslide doesn't play that well with MO's virtual folder system.

So the path should look something like this:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\Naturalistic HDT Jiggle and Collision Set\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPSpecial.nif

Then click 'Next'.

 

Load the outfit from file too. It should be the UUNP HDT source mesh that's located inside the original Bodyslide mod.

Example path:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\BodySlide and Outfit Studio\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPHDT.nif

 

Now a window will open showing the body and the reference body overlayed.

 

UUNP is the reference shape, in this case the repainted UUNP Special body, and UUNP_outfit is the normal UUNP HDT body.

Now you want to transfer the weight paints.

So in the right window (models or something in English) highlight the shape named UUNP and then open the 'Bones' tab. Now keep Ctrl pressed and select NPC Belly, NPC L Breast, NPC R Breast, NPC L Butt and NPC R Butt. Like this:

 

Then switch back to the left tab (models), right-click the UUNP_outfit shape and click "Copy selected weight paint" or something similar (I don't have Outfit Studio installed in English):

 

Don't change anything in the next window, just confirm.

 

Now you're already done with this, the only thing left is to save the result. To do that click 'File' -> 'Export' -> 'As Nif', then overwrite the UUNPHDT.nif inside the Bodyslide and Outfit Studio mod folders (after making a backup of course).

 

The resulting file will have an unnecessary xml file attached and the Bodyslide shape sliders will be broken though.

You can easily fix that by opening the nif with Nifscope and deleting the NiStringExtraData (Ctrl+Del) and then renaming the NiTriShape back to UUNP.

Maybe also activate 'Auto-Sanitize before Save' (under 'Files').

Resave the nif and the sliders should work again.

 

Here's the result:

UUNPHDT_repainted.7z

Hope this helps.

 

I'll be offline for a few weeks now so see you guys and don't do anything I wouldn't do. 

[Reesewow]

 

 

Ok, if you insist.

 

Transfering weight paints is pretty easy and I wanted to write a tutorial for it anyway. My evil masterplan was to enable people to update those jewelry and Devious Devices meshes for my repaint themselves so I don't have to do the work, hehe. 

But for some reason I never got around to doing it.

 

So, here's a quick and dirty how to for updating the UUNP HDT mesh with my repaint:

 

First open Bodyslide through your mod manager. Then from there open Outfit Studio (lower right corner).

Choose 'File' -> 'New Project'

 

Now load my repainted body mesh as reference shape. Load it from file. When using MO you probably have to locate the file in the real file system of your hard drive since Bodyslide doesn't play that well with MO's virtual folder system.

So the path should look something like this:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\Naturalistic HDT Jiggle and Collision Set\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPSpecial.nif

Then click 'Next'.

 

Load the outfit from file too. It should be the UUNP HDT source mesh that's located inside the original Bodyslide mod.

Example path:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\BodySlide and Outfit Studio\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPHDT.nif

 

Now a window will open showing the body and the reference body overlayed.

sc1.jpg

 

UUNP is the reference shape, in this case the repainted UUNP Special body, and UUNP_outfit is the normal UUNP HDT body.

Now you want to transfer the weight paints.

So in the right window (models or something in English) highlight the shape named UUNP and then open the 'Bones' tab. Now keep Ctrl pressed and select NPC Belly, NPC L Breast, NPC R Breast, NPC L Butt and NPC R Butt. Like this:

sc2.jpg

 

Then switch back to the left tab (models), right-click the UUNP_outfit shape and click "Copy selected weight paint" or something similar (I don't have Outfit Studio installed in English):

sc3.jpg

 

Don't change anything in the next window, just confirm.

 

Now you're already done with this, the only thing left is to save the result. To do that click 'File' -> 'Export' -> 'As Nif', then overwrite the UUNPHDT.nif inside the Bodyslide and Outfit Studio mod folders (after making a backup of course).

 

The resulting file will have an unnecessary xml file attached and the Bodyslide shape sliders will be broken though.

You can easily fix that by opening the nif with Nifscope and deleting the NiStringExtraData (Ctrl+Del) and then renaming the NiTriShape back to UUNP.

sc4.jpg

sc5.jpg

Maybe also activate 'Auto-Sanitize before Save' (under 'Files').

Resave the nif and the sliders should work again.

 

Here's the result:

UUNPHDT_repainted.7z

Hope this helps.

 

I'll be offline for a few weeks now so see you guys and don't do anything I wouldn't do. 

 

 

Heh, thanks for this, it's always nice to have guides for stuff like this.

 

A quick question, could this procedure be used to transfer only select weight paint changes from your repaint body to the normal UUNP special body?  I ask this because my personal ideal would be to be able to transfer the labia gap fix and possibly the belly repaint, but not transfer the breast repaint.  Main reason is that your repainted belly collisions look great, but without repainting every set of armor I might use piercings tend to clip through chest armor and float around.  And obviously once you see the butt gap problem, you cannot unsee it.

 

Edit: Nevermind, that's exactly how it works.  Awesome and thanks for the guide.

[JDG973]

 

 

I don't know what you mean in the second part though. I hope you are not really planning to play with the pussy-less UUNP HDT body, but that you meant the UUNP Special one instead.

 

Actually yeah, that is, if there is no inherit problems transferring new weight paints from UUNP Special to UUNP HDT, i just don't know how to do that yet.

 

Ok, if you insist.

Transfering weight paints is pretty easy and I wanted to write a tutorial for it anyway. My evil masterplan was to enable people to update those jewelry and Devious Devices meshes for my repaint themselves so I don't have to do the work, hehe. 

But for some reason I never got around to doing it.

 

So, here's a quick and dirty how to for updating the UUNP HDT mesh with my repaint:

 

First open Bodyslide through your mod manager. Then from there open Outfit Studio (lower right corner).

Choose 'File' -> 'New Project'

 

Now load my repainted body mesh as reference shape. Load it from file. When using MO you probably have to locate the file in the real file system of your hard drive since Bodyslide doesn't play that well with MO's virtual folder system.

So the path should look something like this:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\Naturalistic HDT Jiggle and Collision Set\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPSpecial.nif

Then click 'Next'.

 

Load the outfit from file too. It should be the UUNP HDT source mesh that's located inside the original Bodyslide mod.

Example path:

drive_letter:\some_folders\Mod Organizer\mods\BodySlide and Outfit Studio\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\Unified UNP\UUNPHDT.nif

 

Now a window will open showing the body and the reference body overlayed.

sc1.jpg

 

UUNP is the reference shape, in this case the repainted UUNP Special body, and UUNP_outfit is the normal UUNP HDT body.

Now you want to transfer the weight paints.

So in the right window (models or something in English) highlight the shape named UUNP and then open the 'Bones' tab. Now keep Ctrl pressed and select NPC Belly, NPC L Breast, NPC R Breast, NPC L Butt and NPC R Butt. Like this:

sc2.jpg

 

Then switch back to the left tab (models), right-click the UUNP_outfit shape and click "Copy selected weight paint" or something similar (I don't have Outfit Studio installed in English):

sc3.jpg

 

Don't change anything in the next window, just confirm.

 

Now you're already done with this, the only thing left is to save the result. To do that click 'File' -> 'Export' -> 'As Nif', then overwrite the UUNPHDT.nif inside the Bodyslide and Outfit Studio mod folders (after making a backup of course).

 

The resulting file will have an unnecessary xml file attached and the Bodyslide shape sliders will be broken though.

You can easily fix that by opening the nif with Nifscope and deleting the NiStringExtraData (Ctrl+Del) and then renaming the NiTriShape back to UUNP.

sc4.jpg

sc5.jpg

Maybe also activate 'Auto-Sanitize before Save' (under 'Files').

Resave the nif and the sliders should work again.

 

Here's the result:

UUNPHDT_repainted.7z

Hope this helps.

 

I'll be offline for a few weeks now so see you guys and don't do anything I wouldn't do. 

 

 

Another useful guide added to my ever growing HDT collection folder, thanks for going out of your way to include a result file to download too. It will make a good reference point for when i test transferring weights to some outfits(or i'll just shamelessly use the file you provided to re-bodyslide everything again )

 

Last question, i don't have to do anything special for the regular UUNP HDT hands and feet sources like the UUNP Special ones you have in your mod do i?

[IGotBored]

If i use your unp addon with this forskin mod will i need to add collision to that or will it already be applied? I'd look for it myself but i dont know what im looking for.

SoS - Schlong for Females Foreskin.zip

[Xaqq]

hey bazinga i just noticed, your xml has very little "side to side" swaying boob action. Is there a specific reason for this? I have a dance mod where the female will vigorously sway her tits side to side XDDD but the boobs kinda stay stationary. 

Also what affects boobs to droop more? anyway i can make them droop even more using JFF?

Thanks as always bazinga.

[741mmmm]

I seemed can not download older version of yours.. Is it only my problem?

[Guest plobis]

Thank you Bazinga.

[mad.scientist]

Hi Bazinga, just wanted to thank you again for making the Creatures use HDT/Collisions. Working great on my end with now almost 400+ creature animations and the new MNC,

Just a question: Do you know if it would be possible to hook into the "Schlongs of Skyrim" bend up/down functionality for creature dicks ? Something that rotates the penis around the base and helps with aiming and alignment during SexLab animations - That would be really helpful in the case of the extra long Chaurus dick.

[freemason]

Hi Is There Any Possibility That You Could Make It Compatible With SAM Male Body Because Mine Isnt Working I Attached HDTM.xml To Gentiles But isnt Working Although HDT Fingers Is Working But No collision with scholongs thanx

[Unfrog12]

Brilliant job, many thanks.

[AnubiSs2167]

Hey, i recently decided to try the HDT and uunp and came across a problem with creaures HDT. It seems that the hdt mesh for giants was build on the old broken mesh from SLNC. It causes deformation in giant model. Leito made a fixed mesh that adressed the issue.

[freemason]

Hi Is There Any Possibility That You Could Make It Compatible With SAM Male Body Because Mine Isnt Working I Attached HDTM.xml To Gentiles But isnt Working Although HDT Fingers Is Working But No collision with scholongs thanx

 

"Well, that's taken care of. No thanks to you." 

Aela the Huntress

 

somehow i managed to fix it so i made your mod compatible with SAM

yehh 

hurayyyy

but not yet

becuz i dunno how to use JFF properly a little bit of help perhaps from you? arent you A natural 

this file is working for me so far but i made no modification with JFF

for other guys

 You Still Need To Download The Main Mod and then overwrite it with mine

SAM HDT Collision By Freemason.7z 

[Bazinga]

 

Hi Is There Any Possibility That You Could Make It Compatible With SAM Male Body Because Mine Isnt Working I Attached HDTM.xml To Gentiles But isnt Working Although HDT Fingers Is Working But No collision with scholongs thanx

 

"Well, that's taken care of. No thanks to you." 

Aela the Huntress

 

somehow i managed to fix it so i made your mod compatible with SAM

yehh 

hurayyyy

but not yet

becuz i dunno how to use JFF properly a little bit of help perhaps from you? arent you A natural 

this file is working for me so far but i made no modification with JFF

for other guys

 You Still Need To Download The Main Mod and then overwrite it with mine

SAM HDT Collision By Freemason.7z

 

Of course. After all I'm sworn to carry your burdens. 

 

Did you download JFF already? If not then you can find it in the download section of HDT PE.

The version here on loverslab is outdated.

 

 

Unpack it somewhere, move the hdtm_sam.xml file (renamed hdtm.xml I suppose?) in that folder and open it using HDThavokmodifier.exe

Now there are 3 rigidbody entries, 2 for the testicles, one for the schlong itself.

The movable testicle rigidbody is named 'NPC GenitalsScrotum [GenScrot]', the other one is the pivot.

I don't know how the balls look with this xml when using SAM but if they are displaced a bit then you can fix that easily: Go to 'Constraints' -> doubleclick the only entry in there -> 'Joint' and change the coordinates for 'Pivot A' until it looks good enough for you.

 

Then there's just one collision box and therefore also one rigidbody for the schlong in this xml, named 'NPC Genitals06 [Gen06]'

You can change the shape, position, orientation and dimensions of that collision box in the very same rigidbody entry. Ignore the stuff in the main window that pops up and click 'Shape'. There you can either change the coordinates of the two points that define the capsule shape, change the radius of the capsule or choose a different shape altogether (not recommended).

Try experimenting with the Y values a bit and best keep the game open and reload the data using the racemenu command in the ingame console (change the gender with sexchange if your main char is female). Shouldn't take long to find good settings that way.

 

 

@ all:

Hi, I'm back from my vacation trip. Holiday isn't over though and I won't be very active until in about a week or so.

 

 

Hi Bazinga, just wanted to thank you again for making the Creatures use HDT/Collisions. Working great on my end with now almost 400+ creature animations and the new MNC,

 

Just a question: Do you know if it would be possible to hook into the "Schlongs of Skyrim" bend up/down functionality for creature dicks ? Something that rotates the penis around the base and helps with aiming and alignment during SexLab animations - That would be really helpful in the case of the extra long Chaurus dick.

Are you mad?

*checks user name*

... Oh I see. 

 

I don't think that's possible at the current state of things. Maybe if someone hooks all these creatures into SoS or creates something similar to it for them.

[Bazinga]

 

Last question, i don't have to do anything special for the regular UUNP HDT hands and feet sources like the UUNP Special ones you have in your mod do i?

 

Nothing special, no. Just the ordinary, build them with Bodyslide.

 

 

...

Great, the links to my older files are still broken. 

[freemason]

 

 

"Well, that's taken care of. No thanks to you." 

Aela the Huntress

 

somehow i managed to fix it so i made your mod compatible with SAM

yehh 

hurayyyy

but not yet

becuz i dunno how to use JFF properly a little bit of help perhaps from you? arent you A natural 

this file is working for me so far but i made no modification with JFF

for other guys

 You Still Need To Download The Main Mod and then overwrite it with mine

SAM HDT Collision By Freemason.7z

 

Of course. After all I'm sworn to carry your burdens. 

 

Did you download JFF already? If not then you can find it in the download section of HDT PE.

The version here on loverslab is outdated.

 

 

Unpack it somewhere, move the hdtm_sam.xml file (renamed hdtm.xml I suppose?) in that folder and open it using HDThavokmodifier.exe

Now there are 3 rigidbody entries, 2 for the testicles, one for the schlong itself.

The movable testicle rigidbody is named 'NPC GenitalsScrotum [GenScrot]', the other one is the pivot.

I don't know how the balls look with this xml when using SAM but if they are displaced a bit then you can fix that easily: Go to 'Constraints' -> doubleclick the only entry in there -> 'Joint' and change the coordinates for 'Pivot A' until it looks good enough for you.

 

Then there's just one collision box and therefore also one rigidbody for the schlong in this xml, named 'NPC Genitals06 [Gen06]'

You can change the shape, position, orientation and dimensions of that collision box in the very same rigidbody entry. Ignore the stuff in the main window that pops up and click 'Shape'. There you can either change the coordinates of the two points that define the capsule shape, change the radius of the capsule or choose a different shape altogether (not recommended).

Try experimenting with the Y values a bit and best keep the game open and reload the data using the racemenu command in the ingame console (change the gender with sexchange if your main char is female). Shouldn't take long to find good settings that way.

 

 

@ all:

Hi, I'm back from my vacation trip. Holiday isn't over though and I won't be very active until in about a week or so.

 

 

 

Thank You So Much !

I had no Idea what to do with JFF Until Now

Also I renamed hdtm,xml to hdtm_sam.xml so collision could work without that i was unable have both fingers and schlong to work but after i renamed and added hdtm_sam.xml to meshes then the collision worked again

Thanks Again For Your Help

and HAVE A NICE TRIP!!!