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A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

LordNecris

By LordNecris,
in General Discussion

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halieslade

halieslade

Posted
Posted
Zydar

 

Didn't read the whole thread, but I guess its time to also keep an eye for someone stealing some mods here and selling it there.

 

I don't have anything against the modders who does this, I do hope that they have learned their lessons and I do hope they will return at one point, one way or another. I would gladly donate, but when I have to pay then there's a certain expectation to go with it. Then there's the issue of using resources from other mods and possible mod piracy.

 

 

I spent years in Second Life trying to create content and sell.  Once word got out that you could easily copy 3d primitives and textures (some pirate group even built their own viewer that automated it, calling it "Copybotting") then turn around and sell as your own, that world became one gigantic shitfest of ripoffs, crappy products and dishonest merchants.  I still have an account in SL, but I canceled my premium sub and stopped logging in for that very reason. 

 

I also belong to Renderosity for a long time, where 3D artists were creating amazing stuff that could have raised the quality of work in SL immeasurably -- but their response when asked about joining Second Life was that they saw it as a "den of thieves".  I couldn't argue with that.  Second Life's loss.

 

Now some of the problem in SL lies at the feet of the owning company (Linden Lab), but it serves as an example of what happens when people start to think they can work from home, making easy money uploading virtual property. 

 

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guyver

guyver

Posted
Posted

 

 

It is true, the modmaker can name Nexus as 'service provider' and they get 1-5% of valves cut depending on how many other service providers the modmaker chooses.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hbxt5ng.jpg

 

Jesus Christ, kendo was right on every ground. This is a really sad day, only LL seems to be untainted by this filth.

I'm fucking done.

 

 

but ONLY IF THE MODDER say so.

also we are talking about 1% of cut on valve's cut that range from 1% to 75% and on what bethesda doesnt take from his cut.

to me its more like an insult than money.

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donnerwetter

donnerwetter

Posted
Posted

I can sympathize with modders wanting to make some money off their work, considering that in the last few years, there's been an explosion of people* who've been able make a living from their hobbies and passions through various Internet platforms and/or crowdfunding, and being able to do so independently of traditional publishers or employers. I don't doubt that creating all this stuff takes hundreds and thousands of manhours and skill, in many cases likely at the professional level.

 

*(Indie devs, let's players, streamers, Youtube video creators, all sorts of artists and so forth.)

 

But this move by Valve and Bethesda amounts to nothing but a callous attempt to monetize something sacred to PC gamers. They've seen how the community lovingly maintains and keeps making new stuff for games that are years, or in some cases even decades old. No paltry release schedule of half-assed DLC can rival that kind of audience loyalty.

 

Being pissed at modders for asking money is one thing, and as I said, I can sympathize with them, but the most shocking thing here is that Bethesda just essentially made an entirely new revenue stream from something they had no hand in. (Make a marketplace open to any old hack to release a shiny new sword, sit back and wait for 75% of profits to roll on in!) Of course, some apologist is no doubt ready to throw a great big book of copyright law at me "Be grateful that Bethesda, in their magnanimousness, even released the modding tools for free in the first place! You are using their engine and assets etc etc etc".

 

Okay, it may be legal, but is it ethical? Is some random modder going to put up with the colossal effort of making sure his/her stuff isn't gonna break your game on your specific setup, or compatible with all the other things floating around in the workshop? This is shit that game studios spend a huge amount of time and money on. When you're adding some random guy's hack on top of an existing system, often on top of a myriad of other hacks and tweaks, you acknowledge that at some point, shit is probably gonna break and you're going to have to take a look under the hood and/or inform the modder about the issue. The modder may or may not help you or fix a conflict, after all, s/he's just a hobbyist, and they have no obligation to play Q&A, and you accept that**. Add money in to the mix, and the situation gets uglier.

 

**(At least most of the time. We shouldn't forget that a lot of modders have been driven away by retarded whining children who've never bothered to open a readme and instead spam them Y MOD NO WERK FAGET?!?!1 And huge kudos to the guys who do spend time going through bugfixing and compatibility, again, I don't really have anything against modders themselves.)

 

You buy a mod and you find out, in a week, that it somehow fucks up your game. Under the new system, the modder still has no responsibility to fix anything, even though you've paid money for their product. And lets not forget that in the world of modding, it's simply impossible for everything to be compatible with everything.

And we accept that fact. We do not judge fanmade modifications by the same standards as we do professional products, however...

 

...Valve and Bethesda are trying to sell us products at professional prices, but with none of the professional responsibility.

 

Traditionally, modding is an activity that not only asks for time from those who make the mods, but also from those who use them. I'm sure we've all spent countless hours arranging load orders or tweaking stuff in the construction kit. Some of us have even spent time assisting others with their problems or even released bugfixes or maintained long abandoned mods. Should we be paid too?

 

So modding has been very open source. Assets, coding and techniques are freely shared among the community, usually relying on a sort of honour system to make sure credit is given where it is due. It is the height of hypocrisy for Valve to say it's just fine to monetize work that relies on existing, free mod resources. "What are they gonna do? Sue us? Good luck with that, asshole."

 

And the implications for modding's future are just bleak as hell. I'm imagining, as are many others, some kind of always-online, locked down, authorized channel for any and all mod releases. Good luck trying to release even the tamest of stuff on LL on Steam Workshop.

 

Instead, I guess I'd rather see Bethesda contracting, for example, the Frostfall guy to make some kind of survival mode/dlc for a new Fallout or Elder Scrolls. If they wanna make it professional, then go whole hog. Of course, it wouldn't be a perfect or maybe even a feasible solution (or would mean actual work, and as we've established, this brainfart of theirs is about nothing else than making a buck out of labour done by others) but neither is dicking over their fanbase, other talented modders who don't want in on Valve's gravy train and the venerated tradition of modding itself.

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halieslade

halieslade

Posted
Posted

 

The moment they do that, Skyrim is dead.

 

The moment they do that, the Elders Scrolls are dead.

 

For me a non-moddable Elder scrolls comming after Morrowind is no Elder scrolls.

 

 

I'm trying to remember when Bethesda did not create bug-infested piles of shit and release them as finished products.  Daggerfall was an epic bugfest.  Morrowind  had its problems but was mostly playable with mods.  Fallout 3 --- suffice it to say that as often as my Skyrim used to  crash before the unofficial patches were released, I spent more time in F3 and FNV reloading from my last save than actually playing.   Oblivion worked pretty well, but Skyrim would have been dead in the womb if not for modders fixing the problems and releasing patches.

 

I will not play an unmoddable Bethesda game.  I'm not playing ESO and I probably won't try the next Fallout.  Bethesda is dead to me.

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Erundil

Erundil

Posted
Posted

So since it seems any newer version of SkyUI is going to be pay only, where does that leave SexLab and various other mods that use that? MCM and all that.

 

When it comes to MCM, you can pretty much just use the older version of SkyUI.

No one can force you to buy new version of SkyUI as long as there are mirrors of the old one around.

Most of the ppl already went crazy about making backups of currently available mods, so it shouldn't be that hard to get a copy of old good SkyUI from someone.

 

Also I'm sure a lot of ppl will buy a new version of SkyUI and release it for free. Yarr, matey! Yo ho ho, and a barrel of rum. >_<

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Guerilla

Guerilla

Posted
Posted

 

 

I hope to the gods he's trolling.

 

Or if he is, that the so called "new feature" basically amounts to opening the menu and having this play in the background on every single menu. 

(Seizure Warning btw)

 

 

He wants to make SkyUI a service provider, basicly taking a cut from other paid mods that depend on it.

 

In two words: Greedy Sellout.

 

Edit: Valve should make Patreon-like system with reasonable profit amount/cuts from sales for modders, instead of paywall that we currently have, nobody is upset, everyone is happy and modding community gets rewarded

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nyctophilia

nyctophilia

Posted
Posted

There is nothing wrong with your eyes. Do not attempt to adjust your mindset. Our lawyers are now in control of the modding community. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand legal terms, or expand one single sentence to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your gaming experience to anything our imagination can conceive. We will control all that you play and purchase.

post-385244-0-82637400-1429911458_thumb.jpg

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Stevierage

Stevierage

Posted
Posted

So since it seems any newer version of SkyUI is going to be pay only, where does that leave SexLab and various other mods that use that? MCM and all that.

 

So since it seems any newer version of SkyUI is going to be pay only, where does that leave SexLab and various other mods that use that? MCM and all that.

 

When it comes to MCM, you can pretty much just use the older version of SkyUI.

No one can force you to buy new version of SkyUI as long as there are mirrors of the old one around.

Most of the ppl already went crazy about making backups of currently available mods, so it shouldn't be that hard to get a copy of old good SkyUI from someone.

 

Also I'm sure a lot of ppl will buy a new version of SkyUI and release it for free. Yarr, matey! Yo ho ho, and a barrel of rum. >_<

 

 

I wonder if, say sexlab (and other mods) sticks to the old skyui and the new skyui keeps getting updated that its incompatible with sexlab (and other mods) would anyone bother to pay and update to the latest skyui?...

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carnifex

carnifex

Posted
Posted

 

 These are things that would self-regulate, given time.

 

 

So how's that self-regulating in the Iphone/android apps market going?

 

 

 

:shy:

 

Judging by all the quality apps I'm using on my Android without spending a dime, it's going pretty good actually.

 

Make no mistake, there will always be shit on the market (both the mobile app market and the paid mod market), because producing shit costs you nearly nothing and someone will always try, hoping that idiots will buy it and he makes a couple bucks. This is in contrast to more traditional businesses, where producing things costs you considerable money and if you produce shit, you'll be filing for bankrupcy soon enough.

 

In this line of business, it doesn't matter how much shit floods the market, as long as you're able to easily find trusted, relevant stuff at a reasonable price. With all the great YouTube reviewers covering Skyrim content, this would have been a walk in the park for this particular market.

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Veladarius

Veladarius

Posted
Posted

 

So since it seems any newer version of SkyUI is going to be pay only, where does that leave SexLab and various other mods that use that? MCM and all that.

 

So since it seems any newer version of SkyUI is going to be pay only, where does that leave SexLab and various other mods that use that? MCM and all that.

 

When it comes to MCM, you can pretty much just use the older version of SkyUI.

No one can force you to buy new version of SkyUI as long as there are mirrors of the old one around.

Most of the ppl already went crazy about making backups of currently available mods, so it shouldn't be that hard to get a copy of old good SkyUI from someone.

 

Also I'm sure a lot of ppl will buy a new version of SkyUI and release it for free. Yarr, matey! Yo ho ho, and a barrel of rum. >_<

 

 

I wonder if, say sexlab (and other mods) sticks to the old skyui and the new skyui keeps getting updated that its incompatible with sexlab (and other mods) would anyone bother to pay and update to the latest skyui?...

 

 

Not making SkyUI compatible with the current version and mods using it would guarantee it would not be used. Who would be willing to sacrifice using a number of mods for a few that updated? I know that having an update that breaks mods that rely on it is a pain not only for users but the mod makers as well, I think the only reason the DD Integration updates go as well as they do those of use that make mods using it coordinate with the release.

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nsthf

nsthf

Posted
Posted

This whole thing stinks to me.

 

SkyUI is the top mod on Nexus, with almost 4.5 million unique downloads, are the authors seriously willing to throw away all the goodwill they've gained over the years for the tiny share of 25%? It's like Valve and Bethesda paid them off before all of this started, thinking that if some of the big mods made workshop only updates, more modders would follow, earning Valve and Bethesda nice profit for doing nothing.

 

Fortunately, they were wrong, at least for now. Still, I lost a lot of respect for both companies, and I'm worried about what BS they might try to pull on us next.

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rylasasin

rylasasin

Posted
Posted

 

 

This is in contrast to more traditional businesses, where producing things costs you considerable money and if you produce shit, you'll be filing for bankrupcy soon enough.

 

Like EA?

 

 

Lolbertarians are always so funny.

 

 

 

Anyway, this whole thing makes me think that Bethesda (or its parent company, Zinnemax) is in some sort of financial trouble. Otherwise, they would have done this FAR sooner.

 

See, they had to have known that something like this would cause massive amounts of outrage. 

 

If I had to speculate (lol), I would guess that the failure that is ESO has something to do with this. It's not doing as well as they would hoped, and not as well as they need it to, so they need to extract value from somewhere else, fast. Making a new game takes too long and requires too much money. Yet here we have a pool of labor that's basically free, and that if you dangle even a small amount of carrot in front of their faces they'll take it no matter how badly you screw them over.

 

Things like this they don't simply do on the whim. Things like this they do in desperation. In fact it's the same sort of desperation that lead to the wild speculation orgy that lead up to the 2008 global economy crash.

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Ceit

Ceit

Posted
Posted

I fear that in the next update bethesda will dissallow any content NOT loaded through the workshop, so this will be the end of nexus, ll, and other mod site, as well as the end of tools like mod organizer

 

I don't think so at all. It is easy to modify the skyrim exe file to delete the steam dependency. All this stuff would be available on torrents and other websites.

 

My bet is that mods like skyUI will soon find that other people will make similar mods available for for free and compatible with everything or that people will just copy their work and upload it elsewhere for people to download.

 

Similar things have gone down in other gaming communities but in the end I believe the trouble all started with "Donations". As soon as the corporations saw that people would pay for mods using their assets and framework they had no choice but to protect their products. A lot of the comments from people here are very immature and ignorant of how business works. As soon as people started donating money then the writing was on the wall.

 

The truth is that people believe they own their mods and they are incorrect. These gaming companies provide jobs. And because of that the laws and politicians who create the laws will always side with companies that provide jobs. Jobs is the most important thing in life. Without them we all suffer. Gaming is one of the industries that all States, cities want. They are fighting for gaming companies to open offices in their cities because of the jobs. Bethesda is a company and they need to make money. All the mods made for their game are owned by Bethesda and if you don't believe then I think you will have a rude awakening in the next few years. The letter from Steam's lawyers to the modder who got burned is proof and also just look at Skyrim and Fallout 3 and you will see all sorts of models that were all taken from mods that were made available for mass download on the nexus.

 

As the law stands, and if you read and understand what you agreed to when you downloaded the games onto your computer, is that the gaming company owns everything. If you make a model for their game and offer it online for mass download on the nexus or even here at LL then you have given up ownership rights.

 

If you want to argue that then get a lawyer and I hope you have a lot of money because you will have to argue it in Europe and the world court where international copy right cases in this theatre are held and decided.

 

As far as the future is concerned; if you don't like what is happening THEN SHUT UP AND STOP BUYING GAMES FROM STEAM because that is the only way to get big business to listen.

 

I have heard that there are petitions going around and they are going to need MILLIONS of signatures for it to have any effect. 

 

Still, it is interesting to see what will happen. Already many big mod authors are opting in, and my prediction is that many more will too. As it stands now I only see this getting bigger unless the modding community gets organized.

 

As far as Darkprick is concerned; I was laughing as he was setting himself up as the white night but in his posts you can read between the lines that he is only upset that he is unable to get in on the action because Valve and Bethesda were taking 75% and that left nothing for anybody else to offer competition. The fact is, DARKPRICK SUPPORTS THIS BUSINESS MODEL. He would sell everybody out in a second if they called him today and offered him a seat at the table.

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Ceit

Ceit

Posted
Posted

people should start unendorse mods who went to paid mods, to give those modders taste of there own medicine.

 

LoL I think they would prefer dollars over endorsements so they really wouldn't care but who knows, I may be wrong. Maybe people un-endorsing would make a difference but it would have to be at least 80% of their endorsements being removed. If they lost only 25% it wouldn't make a difference.

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