Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[SkyAddiction]

56 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

So far, it just hasn't fit into the Kimy philosophy. Possibly concerns about the items not working correctly and DCL being blamed?

 

Perhaps this position might change in the future?

 

I suspect it's more about limiting obligations and control. Kimy keeps a pretty tight ship when it comes to what does and doesn't make it into DD and/or DCL, and most of that seems to come down to potential obligations regarding support. Both DD and DCL are pretty notoriously "closed" when it comes to what gets adopted and what doesn't (no beta dependencies, open permissions required, professional completed projects needed, etc.).

 

For that reason, most of her stuff tends to become internalized within mods where she gets better control, and thus can better prioritize what can and can't be done with features. It's a good time-saving tactic as well as being efficient, and likely explains a lot about why DD/DCL evolve the way they do. If I were publicly modding, I'd do that too. It just makes sense. Why spend your time supporting other projects when you can internalize them and thus not worry about maintaining an unnecessary link to soft dependencies?

 

If that somehow sounds negative to potential readers, she also makes all her code public and has some of the most liberal usage terms on this site. Kimy and DD team code have immeasurably increased my knowledge of what's efficient and useful, and if I ever release my personal mods and mod patches, it'll be due to the DD team and Kimy.

[Laura]

1 hour ago, SkyAddiction said:

 

I suspect it's more about limiting obligations and control. Kimy keeps a pretty tight ship when it comes to what does and doesn't make it into DD and/or DCL, and most of that seems to come down to potential obligations regarding support. Both DD and DCL are pretty notoriously "closed" when it comes to what gets adopted and what doesn't (no beta dependencies, open permissions required, professional completed projects needed, etc.).

 

For that reason, most of her stuff tends to become internalized within mods where she gets better control, and thus can better prioritize what can and can't be done with features. It's a good time-saving tactic as well as being efficient, and likely explains a lot about why DD/DCL evolve the way they do. If I were publicly modding, I'd do that too. It just makes sense. Why spend your time supporting other projects when you can internalize them and thus not worry about maintaining an unnecessary link to soft dependencies?

 

If that somehow sounds negative to potential readers, she also makes all her code public and has some of the most liberal usage terms on this site. Kimy and DD team code have immeasurably increased my knowledge of what's efficient and useful, and if I ever release my personal mods and mod patches, it'll be due to the DD team and Kimy.

You're right, having something from another mod as a (soft)depenency makes it more complex and that means more things can go wrong.

You're also relying on the other mod to be stable and it takes more time to test it.

It's also preferrable that the other author is still active, because both mods should roughly be on the same patch of their framework and communication between the mod authors is also important.

But most important of all, it's the mod author's mod and they get to decide what does and doesn't make it in. It's often just a matter of taste.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

You're right, having something from another mod as a (soft)depenency makes it more complex and that means more things can go wrong.

You're also relying on the other mod to be stable and it takes more time to test it.

Very true, but not really the same thing as letting players add DD items, or letting other mods possibly register DD items, or just stuff you can wear. Those aren't things you're making part of your mod, they're an "at your own risk" feature for the players that add items, or something you blame on the other mod author if another mod is registering.

 

While it's a slightly closer binding than mods inter-operating via DHLP events, it's only slightly.

 

And consider also, that DCL does have quite a few optional mods that it supports, including arrest via PoP, Skooma Whore drugs, MME (now), SD+ slavery, Simple Slavery, Estrus Chaurus, the Aradia armor (assuming you can find the working ESP), and it used to have items from Captured Dreams.

 

 

In the case of device registration, if a player decided to register weird items that wouldn't work as DD items, or as wearable items at all, that's their problem, and no reasonable person would ever suppose Kimy should fix it, or own the problem, beyond a sticky post on "how to add your items as DCL event results".

 

 

A better comparison would be adding an animation in SLAL. DCL might play it in a rape, but nobody expects it to become part of DCL, or part of Kimy's responsibility.

 

 

But I raise this only in response to the debate on policy. Whether Kimy wants to add such a feature is another matter again.

[Laura]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Very true, but not really the same thing as letting players add DD items, or letting other mods possibly register DD items, or just stuff you can wear. Those aren't things you're making part of your mod, they're an "at your own risk" feature for the players that add items, or something you blame on the other mod author if another mod is registering.

 

While it's a slightly closer binding than mods inter-operating via DHLP events, it's only slightly.

 

And consider also, that DCL does have quite a few optional mods that it supports, including arrest via PoP, Skooma Whore drugs, MME (now), SD+ slavery, Simple Slavery, Estrus Chaurus, the Aradia armor (assuming you can find the working ESP), and it used to have items from Captured Dreams.

 

 

In the case of device registration, if a player decided to register weird items that wouldn't work as DD items, or as wearable items at all, that's their problem, and no reasonable person would ever suppose Kimy should fix it, or own the problem, beyond a sticky post on "how to add your items as DCL event results".

 

 

A better comparison would be adding an animation in SLAL. DCL might play it in a rape, but nobody expects it to become part of DCL, or part of Kimy's responsibility.

Good point.

I never tried to make something like that. My guess is that it's just too hard to do, but I don't know for sure.

[CheddarTrauma]

I'd very much enjoy DCL adding an API that allows outside mods to register items for cursed loot events.

The optional mods MCM section would no longer need to be maintained, instead mod authors could choose for their DD items to be distributed through cursed loot events.

A system like that would also make it easy for mod authors to create their own custom cursed loot scenarios.

 

I would immediately incorporate Angeli's Devious Devices to use something like that.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Good point.

I never tried to make something like that. My guess is that it's just too hard to do, but I don't know for sure.

Getting a string, parsing it from hex to integer, then getting the object by ID and doing a few basic type checks on it are simple, rote tasks.

You have to do it for two items really, but it's the same task.

 

Presumably it must at least cast to Armor successfully, and from there you can look for DD keywords, and see if it looks like a DD item. If it's not, I guess you reject it. You can at least check that the render and inventory items join up.

 

If it looks workable, you add it to a list - either chosen by the player, or based on its keywords. Then you have to change the event code so that things in that list have a chance to be chosen in some cases.

A little harder than the first step. I guess there could be a pitfall I haven't predicted.

 

As for adding by mod event, similar but you don't even need to parse or get by ID, because the items are being passed to you direct.

 

In all cases, you have no way to know if the item is somewhat broken or badly made, but it really is up to the player to not install gibberish.

But that's where we're back to the question of ownership and policy.

 

 

Probably, the make or break is the question "is this the most fun thing I could code today?" And if you are busy on a new quest, or interesting new slavery rules, maybe writing (or finding) a hex parser is pretty snore inducing ... the sort of coding job that makes you start reading LL forums, and finding important jobs to do about the house rather than bother with it. If it's like that, you probably push the feature back onto the maybe-one-day list.

[Zaflis]

45 minutes ago, hylysi said:

I would immediately incorporate Angeli's Devious Devices to use something like that.

If i knew how, i'd add a full set (1 item at the time ofc, not all from a single trap) of timed restraints to random loot chance. I peeked in the ESP with creation kit and TES5Edit half a week ago but didn't get to the bottom of how any of the restraints work.

 

What i was mainly doing was fix Slave gag... if nothing else, copy stats from high security gag (that item works) to it, but i couldn't see the differences. Second change i'd have done is change order of items applied in Cursed Collar. Gag first, then chastity, boots, cuffs etc. In order from hardest item to least, except armbinder last.

[LazyBoot]

41 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Getting a string, parsing it from hex to integer, then getting the object by ID and doing a few basic type checks on it are simple, rote tasks.

You have to do it for two items really, but it's the same task.

 

Presumably it must at least cast to Armor successfully, and from there you can look for DD keywords, and see if it looks like a DD item. If it's not, I guess you reject it. You can at least check that the render and inventory items join up.

 

If it looks workable, you add it to a list - either chosen by the player, or based on its keywords. Then you have to change the event code so that things in that list have a chance to be chosen in some cases.

A little harder than the first step. I guess there could be a pitfall I haven't predicted.

 

As for adding by mod event, similar but you don't even need to parse or get by ID, because the items are being passed to you direct.

 

In all cases, you have no way to know if the item is somewhat broken or badly made, but it really is up to the player to not install gibberish.

But that's where we're back to the question of ownership and policy.

 

 

Probably, the make or break is the question "is this the most fun thing I could code today?" And if you are busy on a new quest, or interesting new slavery rules, maybe writing (or finding) a hex parser is pretty snore inducing ... the sort of coding job that makes you start reading LL forums, and finding important jobs to do about the house rather than bother with it. If it's like that, you probably push the feature back onto the maybe-one-day list.

I know the DD framework has a generic device list that mods can add devices to, but I'm not sure to what degree cursed loot uses it.

[firebinder]

I've got a question concerning SD+ integration. I have SD+ 3.6.1 installed but not DAYMOYL. In the MCM for Cursed Loot, under Optional Mods it shows Sanguine's Debauchery as  "found", and I have "Enable SD+ Integration" checked. It says that this option will allow the character to be enslaved by hostiles or infected with spriggan spores "starting the respective quests from SD+". I would assume that it means these things can happen as a result of combat defeat, but there are no options for it under "Combat Attacks" or "Combat Rape Outcomes", and despite my character being defeated way too often I've never seen it trigger an SD+ enslavement or Spriggan infection. SD+ no longer requires DAYMOYL, and Kimy specifically recommends against using it, but do you need it if you want SD+ enslavement events to come up as a result of combat defeat? Am I missing something, or does this work way different than I was thinking? Apart from using the manual surrender key how should SD+ events be triggered?

[SkyAddiction]

56 minutes ago, firebinder said:

I've got a question concerning SD+ integration. I have SD+ 3.6.1 installed but not DAYMOYL. In the MCM for Cursed Loot, under Optional Mods it shows Sanguine's Debauchery as  "found", and I have "Enable SD+ Integration" checked. It says that this option will allow the character to be enslaved by hostiles or infected with spriggan spores "starting the respective quests from SD+". I would assume that it means these things can happen as a result of combat defeat, but there are no options for it under "Combat Attacks" or "Combat Rape Outcomes", and despite my character being defeated way too often I've never seen it trigger an SD+ enslavement or Spriggan infection. SD+ no longer requires DAYMOYL, and Kimy specifically recommends against using it, but do you need it if you want SD+ enslavement events to come up as a result of combat defeat? Am I missing something, or does this work way different than I was thinking? Apart from using the manual surrender key how should SD+ events be triggered?

 

It enables SD+ as a trap event. A few of us have advocated for an SD+ link to DCL combat surrender and Kimy said she'd consider it, but that's not currently possible unless you mod it in yourself.

[firebinder]

1 hour ago, SkyAddiction said:

 

It enables SD+ as a trap event. A few of us have advocated for an SD+ link to DCL combat surrender and Kimy said she'd consider it, but that's not currently possible unless you mod it in yourself.

Ah, I see it there, thanks! Got to admit that's not how I expected it to work.  Well certainly add me to those advocating it as a combat surrender option. I'd mod it in myself - except oh wait -  my papyrus skills suck.

[Moonpaw]

I have a problem, the hoods are invisible on beast races (khajit, argonian, lykaios,). How do i fix this? I already ran bodyslide

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, firebinder said:

Ah, I see it there, thanks! Got to admit that's not how I expected it to work.  Well certainly add me to those advocating it as a combat surrender option. I'd mod it in myself - except oh wait -  my papyrus skills suck.

In cases where you lose, you can always manually surrender using the SD+ surrender key.

 

It's also possible to get to it through Simple Slavery, though not in an immersive way. You expect to be enslaved by the NPC that defeated you, not always sold to some random.

[RetroGray]

5 hours ago, Moonpaw said:

I have a problem, the hoods are invisible on beast races (khajit, argonian, lykaios,). How do i fix this? I already ran bodyslide

I don't know how familiar you are with Tes5Edit. It's not overly complicated to sort out but it differs depending on whether you're talking about full enclosure hoods (baloon hood, leather hood) that completely cover the head, or hoods with openings for the eyes/face where you can see part of the head underneath. 

 

Full enclosure hoods are easiest to deal with, as long as you're ok with the fact that the meshes have the basic shape of a human head and might not look quite right if your character has a very non-human head shape, huge ears, horns, or whatever. They look ok with basic Khajiit/Argonian heads for the most part.

 

In that case all you need to do is open up Tes5Edit, fine the ARMA (Armor Addon) entry for the missing model, and then add the various missing races to the Additional Races section of the entry.

 

For hoods with openings it's more complicated. Beast races won't look right at all with most of the open hoods since you can see part of the head underneath and they're made for human meshes only. You'd either need to make a custom mesh that looks right with your chosen race or edit the esp so that when a beast race wears the open hood it uses the model for a similar closed hood instead.

 

To do that you'd need to make a copy of the original ARMA record for the open hood (copy as new record, not copy as override). In that new entry, change the Female and/or Male world models to the new model you want to use for beast races. Then as above add the beast races to the Additional Races section, however in this case you need to also remove all the non-beast races. That way you have two ARMA entries for the same item, the original with no beast races and the new one with ONLY beast races.

 

Finally find the ARMO (Armor) entry for that same item. DCL often has both Inventory and Rendered entries for its items and you'll want the Rendered one. At the bottom of those entries you'll see Armature - MODL - Model Filename. Add a new entry to that and point it to the new ARMA record you made for beast races. That way when a human wears the item it'll use the original open hood model, and when a beast race character wears the same item it'll use the closed hood model.

 

Side note: it's probably sensible to copy all the relevant entries into a new override patch rather than editing the original Deviously Cursed Loot.esp. That way a) if you mess something up you don't have to reinstall DCL to fix it and b) you don't need to re-do all this the next time a new version of DCL comes out, provided it hasn't made other changes to those items.

 

It's not a perfect solution but it's better than nothing. DD and DCL have never been super interested in supporting beast races. Not unreasonably, making variant meshes for Khajiits and Argonians for every head item is a ton of extra work for the benefit of a presumably small percentage of players.

 

[LazyBoot]

7 hours ago, Moonpaw said:

I have a problem, the hoods are invisible on beast races (khajit, argonian, lykaios,). How do i fix this? I already ran bodyslide

You'll need to look for a beast-race fix for DD.

Devious Devices does not, by default, fully support beast races.

[hexenhaus]

 

On 11/7/2018 at 1:15 AM, jigwigigx said:

I would appreciate a bit of a hint with the supply and demand quest, Vekel has sent me off to look for the lost shipment. I know you are supposed to go

look in mines, caves and hideouts with boss chests but I have been to over a dozen and no joy and I am getting fed up looking.

I do not know if some general script problem, but the Shipment did not spawn for me. I cleared 10 camps/mines etc. but got no DCUR loot at all. In the end I cheated the shipment (type "help shipment" and it should give you the item ID).

[jigwigigx]

15 hours ago, hexenhaus said:

 

I do not know if some general script problem, but the Shipment did not spawn for me. I cleared 10 camps/mines etc. but got no DCUR loot at all. In the end I cheated the shipment (type "help shipment" and it should give you the item ID).

Yeah I did that already.  I hope we get an option to disable the chloe quest for the next update because it's not perfect, you're stuck with it every time you start a new game and you know you're going to run into these problems.

[Lupine00]

29 minutes ago, jigwigigx said:

Yeah I did that already.  I hope we get an option to disable the chloe quest for the next update because it's not perfect, you're stuck with it every time you start a new game and you know you're going to run into these problems.

I think you can simply ignore Chloe at the start, and then progress through the LAL events as normal. You'll have a lingering quest in your journal. If you don't get into the stuff where the quest starts putting bondage on you, or you get Chloe as a follower, it's fine. Remember, you don't have to go in that side of Helgen Keep at all. You can simply go in the cave side.

[chipstick]

Speaking of Chloe...

 

I play through the vanilla intro everytime I start a new playthrough.

Updated to DCUR 7.2. Looking forward to a properly cursed playthrough as always.

So Helgen.

Chloe is in Helgen. I *cannot* avoid triggering her quest.

Once her quest is triggered it locks out all cursed loot events.

If you don't complete Chloe's quest then far as I know, the only way to have cursed loot events happen again is if you use the safeword.

From what I can tell, using the safeword permanently breaks chloe's quest.

So... at the moment, DCUR requires you to play through Chloe's quest, which seems to be bloody long. (As a test I used console commands to teleport around and doing all the errands and talking to all the people, but i stopped for a bit as it seemed to keep going on)

So no access to cursed loot unless I could break Chloe's quest permanently. Or else I'm forced to play through what seems a very long quest first.

 

Unless I'm missing something here, could this please be changed? It's really frustrating and there's no reason for Chloe to unavoidably gatekeep the mod's main features!

 

Apologies, disregard. If anyone feels the same way as I do, using the safeword kills Chloe's quest, but it can be resumed when you left off by reading the latest note the game gives you.

 

I should've thought of that first. Sorry Kimy.

[Lupine00]

If you use LAL, you can avoid triggering Chloe's quest.

[Kimy]

Not sure where people got the idea from that the Chloe quest is mandatory to complete. It's not.

 

But I guess for those of you who don't like Chloe, I have bad news: What I am currently working on is probably 2-3 times longer than Chloe...

[Lupine00]

I think they like Chloe, it just has a couple of bugs for some people.

 

P.S. awesome about the forthcoming content. Can't wait.

 

Damn. No choice. Have to wait.

[chipstick]

40 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Not sure where people got the idea from that the Chloe quest is mandatory to complete. It's not.

 

But I guess for those of you who don't like Chloe, I have bad news: What I am currently working on is probably 2-3 times longer than Chloe...

Uh... as far as I can tell, as soon as you trigger Chloe's quest, DCUR registers that there is an active quest.

And that disables all cursed loot events.

So it is mandatory unless you installed cursed loot to not have cursed loot. don't like having cursed loot. Which is the main feature of the mod.

The only other option is to use the safeword.

[Zaflis]

30 minutes ago, chipstick said:

Uh... as far as I can tell, as soon as you trigger Chloe's quest, DCUR registers that there is an active quest.

And that disables all cursed loot events.

So it is mandatory unless you installed cursed loot to not have cursed loot. don't like having cursed loot. Which is the main feature of the mod.

The only other option is to use the safeword.

But using Live Another Life you can either completely skip dragon quests, or skip the part where you go in Helgen keep. It lets you run straight to Riverwood if you want to roll that way, never seeing Chloe. And i think if you first go in from the cave entrance, the "you hear distant whimpering" and quest doesn't trigger?

 

Looking forward to the new quest.

[chipstick]

13 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

But using Live Another Life you can either completely skip dragon quests, or skip the part where you go in Helgen keep. It lets you run straight to Riverwood if you want to roll that way, never seeing Chloe. And i think if you first go in from the cave entrance, the "you hear distant whimpering" and quest doesn't trigger?

 

Looking forward to the new quest.

I don't believe LAL should be mandatory to play cursed loot (without first completing Chloe's quest). Of course that option works for people who like alternate starts.

The best solution would be that you can put the quest on hold through dialogue, and the mod rolls on with all its features intact.