Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[CGi]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

[snip]

You made it sound like DCL does not offer keys so i pointed out 2 of the 3 existing ways, the third being asking NPC's for help who then either give you a key or remove a restraint... or not.

 

That Kimy chose Dawnstar was a smart choice because all the other and more prefered places are usually touched by alot of other mods so choosing Dawnstar lowered the risk of conflicts with other mods.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, CGi said:

You made it sound like DCL does not offer keys so i pointed out 2 of the 3 existing ways, the third being asking NPC's for help who then either give you a key or remove a restraint... or not.

 

That Kimy chose Dawnstar was a smart choice because all the other and more prefered places are usually touched by alot of other mods so choosing Dawnstar lowered the risk of conflicts with other mods.

Does suggesting a way to get keys imply that there is currently no way to get keys? I didn't think so. I'm pretty sure everyone who has ever used DCL knows it has keys, so we can take that information more or less for granted. Certainly, Kimy is well aware there are keys!

 

Is Dawnstar a smart choice? Compared to a "wildnerness" location like CD used, I'm not sure it's better. Currently DCL conflicts with a number of town overhauls. CD doesn't. This is pretty much the reason I don't use any of those mods. Because they DO conflict. Also, Dawnstar is really very nasty if you use Frostfall - which is one of the most popular Skyrim mods around. A naked slave basically can't go to Dawnstar without making some kind of changes. DF has a nice warm outfit  But it's no good if you're wearing something else that blocks it. Or you can assign a ton of warmth and protection to your bondage gear, but it seems ... odd ... to do that. Winterhold is worse of course, but it's the coldest town in the game.

 

Dollmaker isn't moving now, I guess. But I could imagine a "branch" ... perhaps a travelling vendor or something ... to alleviate some of the issues with access to Dawnstar ... but don't read too much into that suggestion, it's just an example ... like the throwaway comment about keys.

 

You could say that Whiterun has more conflicting mods than Dawnstar, because there are a lot of Whiterun overhauls, but actually Kimy added a house to Whiterun (exterior), so that can't have been a pressing reason for putting Dollmaker in Dawnstar. I think it was done because it's hard to get to (but not too hard), but didn't consider the Frostfall issue. But I suppose that people who care a lot can simply move the Dollmaker in the CK. It's surprisingly little effort, and I don't think any quests get broken by it.

[Lupine00]

On a fresh topic (or old one, depending on perspective)...

 

In The Cursed Collar quest, when you get near the end and have the armbinder on, opening chests now gives you the popup about finding a sharp object and says you escape from your armbinder. However, the armbinder isn't removed (which is good), but the popup is misleading and a bit ... worrying. Made me worry the quest might get broken right near the end.

 

 

I do love CC though. It is perhaps the most archetypal of DCL quests, and the ending is funny, and extremely challenging if you have a dark lighting mod.

 

 

Something that niggles me about CC, which is more noticeable now that my "full chastity blocks rapes" box is ticked, is that the order you get the items is a little easy. Or put another way ... it could extract more value from the items.

 

If the items were delivered in a different order, it would be possible to create a "hard mode" version of Cursed Collar, which I think some might enjoy.

 

Currently I'm not sure if CC is properly repeatable, but it's an SS outcome, so I really hope it is

 

Anyway, it would be nice to get the hard version on repeat or something.

 

Details below...

Spoiler

 

Currently what happens is you get chastity very early in the quest. This makes you effectively immune to rapes for the duration of the quest, so the other bondage is having less impact.

 

If you got boots as the first thing after the collar, it would be more hardcore. You'd have to do the entire thing slowed and vulnerable to rape for the entire time up until you get the belt (and gag).

 

So the order would be ... collar, boots, bra, (gloves),  arm cuffs, leg cuffs, gag, belt+accessories, harness, armbinder, (blindfold).

 

Currently there are no gloves, but there's no reason there couldn't be gloves. Mittens wouldn't really work though.

 

The bra has some tiny debuffs on it, but nothing else does, so they really aren't anything but decoration. It would be nice if the boots, cuffs, harness (and theoretical gloves) had debuffs too.

 

The gag is a big problem if you use a needs mod. As usual, I nearly died of dehydration. I had to untick that in iNeed, otherwise I would have. 

 

 

What it really does is highlight how the hungry+thirsty dialog simply doesn't do what it is supposed to do.

 

1) Followers don't even have that dialog, yet they are the people who should be most motivated to feed you.

2) Almost everyone refuses to feed you. You can build up more need trying to get fed+watered than you get back from it. In the meantime you'll be given a bunch of useless keys, skooma, attempted to be raped (rape starts then does nothing because you're immune), and possibly have random armbinders locked onto you (which you have to remove before you can progress the quest). But after all that asking, your chances of getting a reasonable amount of food and drink are low.

 

The buffs from the collar are so awesome that mage-build characters can reasonably choose to keep the collar and never look for any of the other items ... though in some configurations this might get punished a bit with rapes, which may or not be meaningful. Still coming out ahead with all the buffs on the collar.

 

Melee on the other hand are severely hampered by this quest, and their skill development impacted, not quite as much as Bound Queen, because CC is shorter, but it's still a thing.

 

Maybe that's good though. At least melee have a good reason to want to get the collar off.

[Zaflis]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Currently I'm not sure if CC is properly repeatable, but it's an SS outcome, so I really hope it is

I said this in earlier post, but Cursed Collar is yes and no repeatable. For majority part it is, but you need to cheat your way through last 2 jail doors to begin the blindfolded event. Actually i think you can use command to walk through walls, was it "tcl"...

 

edit: And i specifically meant when doing cursed collar quest second time. First one no issues.

[Laura]

43 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

I said this in earlier post, but Cursed Collar is yes and no repeatable. For majority part it is, but you need to cheat your way through last 2 jail doors to begin the blindfolded event. Actually i think you can use command to walk through walls, was it "tcl"...

I had no problem completing the Cursed Collar quest. I completed it without commands,

[Slagblah]

3 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I said this in earlier post, but Cursed Collar is yes and no repeatable. For majority part it is, but you need to cheat your way through last 2 jail doors to begin the blindfolded event. Actually i think you can use command to walk through walls, was it "tcl"...

I typically use "unlock" on the jail doors that don't reset properly on your later passes through the quest.

2 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I had no problem completing the Cursed Collar quest. I completed it without commands,

Sure, first time through is no problem, but if you repeat it, you can run into some locked cell doors at the end that prevent you from getting to the final stage.

[DonQuiWho]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Does suggesting a way to get keys imply that there is currently no way to get keys? I didn't think so. I'm pretty sure everyone who has ever used DCL knows it has keys, so we can take that information more or less for granted. Certainly, Kimy is well aware there are keys!

 

Is Dawnstar a smart choice? Compared to a "wildnerness" location like CD used, I'm not sure it's better. Currently DCL conflicts with a number of town overhauls. CD doesn't. This is pretty much the reason I don't use any of those mods. Because they DO conflict. Also, Dawnstar is really very nasty if you use Frostfall - which is one of the most popular Skyrim mods around. A naked slave basically can't go to Dawnstar without making some kind of changes. DF has a nice warm outfit  But it's no good if you're wearing something else that blocks it. Or you can assign a ton of warmth and protection to your bondage gear, but it seems ... odd ... to do that. Winterhold is worse of course, but it's the coldest town in the game.

 

Dollmaker isn't moving now, I guess. But I could imagine a "branch" ... perhaps a travelling vendor or something ... to alleviate some of the issues with access to Dawnstar ... but don't read too much into that suggestion, it's just an example ... like the throwaway comment about keys.

 

You could say that Whiterun has more conflicting mods than Dawnstar, because there are a lot of Whiterun overhauls, but actually Kimy added a house to Whiterun (exterior), so that can't have been a pressing reason for putting Dollmaker in Dawnstar. I think it was done because it's hard to get to (but not too hard), but didn't consider the Frostfall issue. But I suppose that people who care a lot can simply move the Dollmaker in the CK. It's surprisingly little effort, and I don't think any quests get broken by it.

CD just isn't in a wilderness all of its own.  It conflicts directly with North Keep from TES Arena and is unusable with that installed.  It's also incompatible with variants of TPOS which expands the mill.  Fortunately TES is available as a modular addon that lets you exclude it.

 

Bottom line is that finding anywhere in Skyrim that doesn't conflict with anything else is well nigh impossible

 

I do like the idea, tho, that there could be a Dollmaker's chain of shops, on the basis that you probably will at least be able to get the front door on one to open without tcl 

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

And if anyone goes mad and says we don't need keydrops, I'll send round some of nice Devious Helper followers from that lovely mod made by @TurboNerd to lock you up.

 

?

 

 

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, donkeywho said:

And if anyone goes mad and says we don't need keydrops, I'll send round some of nice Devious Helper followers from that lovely mod made by @TurboNerd to lock you up.

I've been using that lately, and their little "games" burn through disposable keys faster than a skooma junkie goes through her stash.

 

The disappointing part is that there's no support in DCL, or most other mods, for generic followers to perform sex "attacks" when you're restrained etc.

You'd think SL Adventures would have this covered, but instead there's only the option for forced sex with the follower with an audience when a crowd rape occurs.

No private sexy-time possible.

 

However, Sasha is a different matter...

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, donkeywho said:

CD just isn't in a wilderness all of its own.  It conflicts directly with North Keep from TES Arena and is unusable with that installed.  It's also incompatible with variants of TPOS which expands the mill.  Fortunately TES is available as a modular addon that lets you exclude it.

That's true, but it's more isolated than Dollmaker's shop, and so doesn't conflict with the majority of town overhauls, of which there are quite a few, and a few of which are extremely popular mods.

 

CD also would have benefited from a more "pure" wilderness location. I really can't think of many mods that mess with the empty spaces apart from Whiterun Hold Forest, which itself conflicts with More Bandit Camps - though MBC doesn't really put bandits in the middle of nowhere, but always near a road.

 

There's nowhere completely safe, but the existing level of conflict on Dollmaker means that - for me - she might as well have been in the middle of Whiterun, Riften, or Falkreath. Because she genuinely does have conflicts where she is, I don't use those mods, and once you stop using them, she could be in any town.

 

Dawnstar (probably due to its crappiness), is a frequent target of town upgrades ... there's so much scope to upgrade it. I want to try The Great City of Dawnstar, but haven't yet. Does it conflict?

 

 

Another possibility, a bit more fun this time: Dollmaker's delivery cart... Add an NPC with one of those scary "cart with a cage on it" vehicles outside Leon's house.

 

Talk to the NPC and you can get a free ride, and arrive right inside the Dollmaker's house, without having to walk a single step ... even when bound ... or on a bondage quest.

 

Of course, you might find that, when you arrive, the Dollmaker has generously arranged some cosy guest accommodation for you ... especially if you were already in no position to refuse her hospitality. The Dollmaker is such an attentive host, always giving her guests pretty presents and tasty drinks, but she has been known to expect a favor or two in return...

[El_Duderino]

21 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Dollmaker isn't moving now, I guess. But I could imagine a "branch" ... perhaps a travelling vendor or something ... to alleviate some of the issues with access to Dawnstar ... but don't read too much into that suggestion, it's just an example ... like the throwaway comment about keys.

I like that idea. Maybe the Dollmaker could have some traveling merchants that travel along Skyrim's main roads and are allowed to act on her behalf, well, for most of her services anyway (they won't sell you Sasha or become your keyholder, I suppose). Those merchants would of course be properly attired with the Dollmaker's billboard catsuits and, for safety, accompanied by a couple of strong bodyguards. Just like the traveling merchants from the Populated Roads mod, but dressed in rubber. ?

 

Oh, and maybe this could even be an employment opportunity for the Dragonborn. Kind of a mix between the tie-people-up quest and the rubber commercial quest, the Dollmaker dresses you up, hands you a bit of merchandise, and a deadline until when you have to sell it. Sounds easy, but sadly the folks in Dawnstar have enough of the Dollmaker's antics and refuse to buy any of her stuff, so you have to travel somewhere else first. It's not quite as easy as it sounds though, not everybody is interested or can afford the expensive gear so you might run out of time and then there's the trouble with the guards in the other holds, whose yarls the Dollmaker hasn't bribed and so they might not like you selling those scandalous outfits. ... Well, maybe something for @Kimy's "ideas box" if it's interesting enough for it.

[Lupine00]

I'm not a fan of time-limit quests ... too hard to balance and tune ... too fragile generally ... but I really like the rest of El_Duderino's idea.

 

Maybe if the time-limit were replaced with another way to fail, lots of options possible: you could be robbed, you could get "customer service complaints", you could have to make up missing revenue with your own money.

 

 

What would be great is any situation where it's easy to get more and more in debt if you aren't careful and fortunate. And with too much debt ... well I guess DCL doesn't really have enslavement outcomes beyond Leon and Leah yet, but you could plug in an SS result I suppose.

 

I like the idea that customers demand you demonstrate the items by wearing them, if you refuse, they might complain to the Dollmaker. If you comply they might well take advantage of you, and if they do that, you might also get robbed, and left in bondage, and in trouble with the Dollmaker. But if they don't take advantage, you can earn a tip for good service by offering ... further demonstration ... and that can get a recommendation to the Dollmaker, adding towards wiping off complaints. What a dilemma! To demonstrate or not?

 

Also, competing Dollmaker merchants might have "territory" and if they catch you in it, they demand an apology... And who knows what that might consist of?

 

All just pie in the sky really. But we can dream.

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I've been using that lately, and their little "games" burn through disposable keys faster than a skooma junkie goes through her stash.

 

The disappointing part is that there's no support in DCL, or most other mods, for generic followers to perform sex "attacks" when you're restrained etc.

 

You sure about that?

 

May be confusing this with another mod but thought that MCM options existed so that you could disable EITHER OR BOTH other NPCs AND followers commenting on worn devices AND also EITHER OR BOTH taking 'appropriate action' if any visibly worn

[jigwigigx]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but have Leon and Leah been removed from 6.4? All of a sudden I can't find them in bannered mare anymore.

[Laura]

7 hours ago, jigwigigx said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, but have Leon and Leah been removed from 6.4? All of a sudden I can't find them in bannered mare anymore.

They are still there for me. Does the rest of DCUR work for you?

[LazyBoot]

7 hours ago, jigwigigx said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, but have Leon and Leah been removed from 6.4? All of a sudden I can't find them in bannered mare anymore.

If you got married, it could be worth looking for him in the temple in riften.

[jigwigigx]

4 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

If you got married, it could be worth looking for him in the temple in riften.

Lazyboot,  you're a genius. ?

 

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, donkeywho said:

You sure about that?

 

May be confusing this with another mod but thought that MCM options existed so that you could disable EITHER OR BOTH other NPCs AND followers commenting on worn devices AND also EITHER OR BOTH taking 'appropriate action' if any visibly worn

I agree there are nice tickboxes to enable and disable these features. I have them all enabled ... and yet ...

 

NPCs in general will comment and act.

 

Followers will comment, but I have never once had a follower act.

 

At least, not in 6.4, and TBH I can't recall with any certainty if it was different back in the merethic era.

 

It may be that DCL only allows certain followers to act, but whether it's Lydia or Jenessa, I've had nothing.

 

With non vanilla followers, all bets are off, but you'd at least expect them to behave as regular NPCs, and the ones I use, do not.

(I have a lot of followers installed in my game, but have only used a few of them. Most are extremely generic/vanilla from a code perspective though).

The exception to this would be Elsie LaVache, but she seems exclusively submissive.

[Lupine00]

On reflection, if the "Comments" feature worked with followers as it's supposed to, it would be annoying.

 

Personally, I would really want to set the actions percentages differently for follower vs NPC, and the visible bondage differently.

 

So, it would be possible to set up something like:

 

-- NPC Comments --

Cooldown period:          2 hours

Chance to comment:        10%

Chance to act on comment: 25%

Rape weight:              100

Add restraints weight:    20

Give key:                 50

Visible bondage only:     Yes

 

-- Follower Comments --

Cooldown period:          6 hours

Chance to comment:        10%

Chance to act on comment: 50%

Rape weight:              100

Add restraints weight:    0

Give key:                 0

Visible bondage only:     No

 

As it is, with followers not acting at all, I set up the percentages for NPCs and the follower behaviour is harmless, if often inappropriate.

 

But... comment appropriateness has been mentioned in the past. Hopefully. Hopefully, we'll see DD factions to control this in future ...

... so when you're a follower's slave, you won't get them commenting about how they'd like to make you their slave, or how they have a pair of boots at home like yours.

 

On that topic, what factions do people think should exist? And how might DCL leverage them beyond comments?

 

I thought of:

Spoiler

 

• Dominant - dominant actors go in this faction (they enjoy domination, doesn't mean they are doing it)
• Submissive - submissive actors go in this faction (they enjoy submission, doesn't mean they are slaves)
• BondageLover - actors who like to be in bondage go in this faction
• BondageMaster - actors who like to put others in bondage go in this faction
• Reluctant - actors who say no, and deny they like things that they like (see other factions), but will cooperate if pressed
• Slave - actors who are slaves go in this faction
• Master - actors who are slave-masters go in this faction
• Slaver - actors who like to buy slaves go in this faction
• TopSlave - actors who are slaves who like to or are expected to, boss other slaves about go in this faction (this is mainly a job, not a disposition) - use this for slaves that are required to discipline other slaves
• Broken - actors who have negligable willpower and will do whatever a dominant type tells them.
• SexAddict - actors who cannot resist sex
• SkoomaAddict - actors who have acquired an addiction to skooma, specifically
• LactacidAddict - actors addicted to lactacid, specifically, and considered distinct from skooma
• RubberFan - actors who like rubber, to wear, or to put others in - see their other factions for how they exhibit this
• LeatherFan - actors who like leather, to wear or to put others in
• ChainFan - actors who like chains, etc.
• PonyFan - actors who like pony action (costumes and carts, but not necessarily sex with horses)
• BeastSexFan - actors who like sex with dogs, horses, and other domestic beasts
• MonsterSexFan - actors who like sex with nasty things, like chaurus, spiders, trolls, draugr, etc. (maybe this needs to be finer grained?)
• VampireFan - actors who are hot for vampires, and probably want to be one - may in fact already be one and get off on the fact
• WerewolfFan - see above, but for werewolves - the Companions, basically
• MilkFan - actors who like boobs and milking - see their other factions for their role in this
• MilkMaid - actor who produces lots of milk, whether they like it or not (see above for whether maid is willing)

 

The above are suitable for PC, general NPCs and followers. They are intended to drive dialog options, color text, comments, and perhaps quest choices.

They provide a simple all-or-nothing approach that you can easily test in Conditions, unlike the vague floating scales in CD, or the fast-moving DF willpower.

It's quite a few factions as a baseline, but anyone who doesn't care about them can simply ignore them - they're just factions.

 

However, simply by putting PC or actors in these factions, mods can cross-communicate all kinds of info with zero-dependencies on anything except DD.

 

ZBF intended to do this, but the factions it provides are ill-documented, poorly defined, and narrowly focused on simplistic master-slave relationships rather than the fluid come-and-go of many PC-NPC interactions.

 

Some additional, more implementation specific ones might be:

• Caged
• InFurniture
• VisiblyBound
• VisiblyChaste
• Gagged
• VisiblyFrustrated
• Starving - avoids having to know how a specific mod tracks hunger
• Thirsty - as above
• Whipped - actor has been recently beaten, showing visible wounds, same purpose as above
• SkoomaWithdrawal
• LactacidWithdrawal
• PublicSlut-<hold> - join this if the actor has been seen publically slutting around in the named hold
• PublicWhore-<hold> - join this if actor has been seen whoring in the named hold
• PublicRaped-<hold> - join this if actor has been seen being raped in the named hold
• PublicBeastiality-<hold> - join this if the actor has been seen having sex with dogs, horses, goats, chickens, etc, in the named hold
• PublicSlave-<hold> - join this if the actor has EVER been publically known to be enslaved (not just collared) in the hold
• LegalSlave-<hold> - join this if the actor is legally considered a slave in the named hold
• MilkSlave - actor subjugated to the level of a human cow, who acts, and is treated, like an animal
• MilkBound - really wants to be milked somehow
• GiantBoobs - has boobs of remarkably large size
• SkoomaRavaged - actors has used far too much skooma for far too long, and visibly shows it

 

It's pretty obvious how these could be used in general dialog conditions, by any mod, for amusing effect. A few simple factions like this can let any mod be surprisingly bondage aware, and do away with the current nonsensical dialogs we so often see now, in mods as varied as Sexist Guards, PoP, DCL, DF, etc.

 

Also, obviates the need for an over-complicated, somewhat unusable system like Sexual Fame, which does not deliver coding bang-for-buck. And if there was a sexual fame mod that simply helped update the factions, all the better, but I think the idea is that any mod that definitively known a state can set you into it. e.g.  if DCL runs a public rape on you in Markarth, it knows for sure that you should be in PublicRaped-Reach, so it could add you.

 

Some of these things you can track through effects, but then they become mod specific, rather than something a shared resource might provide.

 

 

LegalSlave is a concept I'm really interested in right now. --deleted a bunch of stuff that was off topic here--

 

It distinguishes neatly between a free person who got tied up by villains vs actors that are known to be slaves by the local populace, and are not allowed to wander freely without their master (or suitable restraints that prevent them running off and mark them a slave), they will be picked up by the guards and returned to their rightful owner, or sold off by the Jarl. The idea of facial tattoos or scarring might work for this. Very medieval.

 

In such cases, slaves aren't punished for whoring, nakedness etc, and cannot accrue a bounty, because property can't commit crimes. (And in Slaverim, it seems that people consider public sex with slaves isn't a crime, but merely ungracious).

 

LegalSlave status applies even if you escape a master. If you run off, you will likely be arrested and resold if you return to any hold where you're a slave, which could be all of them...

 

So, you have to somehow legally buy out of the slavery. And as slaves can't own property, you cannot buy your own freedom. Some soft-hearted NPC must buy you and free you. The question is, how to earn freedom? An existing example of such a scenario could be if Leon bought you at auction, the only path to freedom there is raising his affection. (OTOH LegalSlave shouldn't apply if he obtained you via the party).

 

A properly polished up version of this would work great for Dollmaker debts and such.

 

 

[Zaflis]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

As it is, with followers not acting at all, I set up the percentages for NPCs and the follower behaviour is harmless, if often inappropriate.

I'm 90% sure i have seen follower approach me, even my own damn horse sometimes rapes >.<  But i like the suggested differences for follower.

 

Rape is 1 thing, but i see all those cages and furniture as i play the game and no effect/npc in game is exploiting them. Yeah i tried devious framework before but it didn't end well, from Skyrim stability point of view. This mod gives comments about chaining to bed, they should just do it sometimes ? But also in the case of traps, what if a cage falls on player? Just some timed one, or other devious ideas with it.

[Lupine00]

I think one thing that has stood in the way of furniture use is ... Zap ... it's got its issues ... but ...

 

A greater obstacle is that there isn't much gameplay that can be created with the furniture as it exists today.

 

It's a tricky thing to use in the first place, because it is by its nature static, nailed down in one spot, and anything that occurs has to be brought to that spot and placed on its marks, according to timing that the player probably can't control.

 

Furniture prevents player action, and (generally) doesn't animate in an interesting way like sex scenes, so it's just not much fun, except to present dialog to a captive audience (pun intended).

 

Most furniture animations that exist are very short loops, and even those animations are not especially easy to track down and use.

If you want to do anything you have to put a lot of effort into it. It's not like DD, where other people made all the items, and put scripts on them, and made a framework with a very tight API that can be learned quite quickly.

Spoiler

 

Most mods have no choice but to disable player control in furniture, even if its a cage, where player control would be harmless. See the DCL LAL intro, of the start of CD.

 

PoP is a notable exception, but PoP is over-addicted to leashes, and in general the interactions you can do within it are meaningless and do not stand up as "gameplay".

 

Go way back, and Devious Regulations makes perfect use of a cage, but even there the mechanics are so fragile; it's very easy for the animations to get broken, leaving you floating in mid-air miles from the cage. Back in the day, DR didn't consider the existence of numerous rape mods that might pop you out of the cage whether you had control or not.

 

Whiterun Brothel Revamped goes all-out to make use of Zap furniture, but mostly what this does is reveal animations with bad cameras, weird clipping problems, sketchy animations, and generally a huge surplus of nice looking models that lack genuinely useful animations to interact with them. If there's an animation for the victim, there's still probably nothing for the antagonists. The water wheel for example. Should be an immersive scene, but isn't because the camera is in a terrible spot, and mostly everything clips like crazy due to the camera either being inside the wheel, or looking at it from the wrong direction so everything is hidden.

 

In WRBR there's a long stretch where you're stuck in a cage getting raped by passers-by, which runs on into a rather well planned scene.

 

It's ambitious, and inventive, and funny, but the camera inside the cage is useless no matter which one you use, and takes away from the polish and presentation of the whole thing.

 

It also has a sex sequence with trolls inside a small cell with cage doors, that is completely spoiled by camera constraints. It's as if the author never considered that a sex scene is pointless if all you can see is a moss-covered wall or a troll's foot.

 

 

So furniture is a problem right now. There's no shortage of models, but there's a big shortage of useful animations.

 

Most mod authors want to use furniture in story telling, as part of scenes, but even that is flawed/difficult because of the camera issues in the current assemblages, and the general lack of any antagonist animations.

 

Definitely more could be done with cages, but the cage NIFs need fixing so they don't have camera collision. I believe this should be possible for any static, but the existing assets are essentially "property of T.ara", so I imagine we'll see 500 new types of Victorian-style bondage-bed model before we see improved collision on anything.

[DonQuiWho]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

On reflection, if the "Comments" feature worked with followers as it's supposed to, it would be annoyi

 

 

Dead right.  Follower action can be VERY annoying.  

 

I'm pretty certain that at one time in the past my follower(s) became so annoying, interrupting and disrupting gameplay, that I disabled them then, and have in every version since.

 

On further reflection, although I'm not certain it was DCL, I do remember asking a mod author to give us access to stopping them (or make the stopping option work) because it was so infuriating

 

19 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I think one thing that has stood in the way of furniture use is ... Zap ... it's got its issues.

 

But the biggest obstacle, is that most mod authors don't have much in the way of ideas of fun things to do with the furniture as it exists today.

 

Furniture prevents player action, and doesn't animate like sex, so it's just not much fun, except to present dialog to a captive audience (pun intended).

 

And with that furniture, if you want to do anything you have to do a lot of work yourself.

 

 

 

Agree that the furniture animations etc, for the most part, don't work as smoothly as anyone would want.  Only wish I had the creative skill/tools to use them

 

But you're right about the gameplay issues.  Musje's HSH, AYGAS, EtR's Hearthfire addons, etc are really excellent efforts at letting the player use the furniture with subdued NPCs.  Those can only get better if the available Furniture models and anims improve, and I guess we need to really look to the DD team for that at present

 

But what about actual player gameplay involvement? 

 

CD and POP are both absolutely excellent pieces of work, but rely heavily on scenes in which the player has limited, or even no, interaction, being almost passive.  Not necessarily unfairly so, given the envisaged scenarios

 

Pop up Assets?  There are tons of SLAL packs which fleetingly generate 'toys', but by and large they appear out of the blue, completely out of context, and disappear immediately after SL has done its thing

 

Probably the best PC use of model assets is to be found in VM's SLAV, where the models are there, the PC is made to use them, in context, as part of quests, and the models remain in situ afterwards.  And as mods go, SLAV does what it says on the tin.  But asset devices are a set part of the mod quests, and the PC has little/limited control over what they are, or what gets used

 

Tyrant's Update of Whiterun Brothel is also a good attempt and is progressing well

 

@Kimy  (tagged you in just for a peek at a basic idea)

 

But, back to topic, what would DCL, or any other mod, ACTUALLY DO with the PC and or followers with on location furniture? 

 

It's not so much the 'placing' of characters on the assets, it's what you do then, that the player has a part in and isn't just entirely a 'passenger' with no real risk/ nothing actionable / no control over the outcomes

 

First thing, for SL activity, Kimy's use of DD's own animation library would at least ensure that any SL animations used would be appropriate to the asset, as opposed to just some random anim and asset picked out of the air.

 

In DCL, asset use context would probably best fit under the consequences/public disgrace etc type scenario, and could use a lot of Kimy's existing MCM chance setting functionality

 

Here's a suggested example of what might be done

 

the PC and follower could be 'reported' etc for something within DCLs existing suite of naughty things. 

 

They could then have to try to avoid the local town Punishment Officer(s) for a while to avoid the 'bad outcome'  To make it a challenge, lLeaving the 'town' locality would be a fail and automatically invoke the bad outcome

 

failure would end up in MCM selectable period of public asset incarceration, moved around frequently, and locked into any assets available or placed in town or local surroundings , where they could be available for free use for by passers by for a period, with no animation mismatch.  This would be fairly passive, but with variety, and player time selectable

 

then, TO ADD BACK the player's direct involvement, they could (MCM chance driven) either be freed completely  OR be forced into prostitution (using existing solicitation), for a few MCM selectable days and/or a daily target income, based on variable payments for type of service rendered. 

 

the PC/Followers could then be left to do their own thing to try to pay off the penalty,  Asking clients to lock them into available assets for a period would generate much higher payment than mere routine services, more money for more stringent furnitures, and longer periods, and services rendered to the client. 

 

Like in solicitation, there could be a chance for the client to cheat them, by locking them in, selling their services to passers by, pocketing the cash, and leaving them, until they 'escaped' later, but with no cash reward. 

 

So the incentive would be there to use the assets, but with the attendant penalty of some self imposed immobility   

 

if they are not keeping up with the target income set, or try to leave the locality,  they could be 'called back' by the vigilante and again locked into the assets available or placed in town or local surroundings , where they could be again be available for free use for by passers by for a period, with no cash forthcoming

 

there could also be an MCM selectable chance to add penalty days / increase monetary targets if they failed to meet existing targets or tried to 'leave town'

 

once they had met the target/served the penance period, and the Punishment Officer was willing to end the penalty period, the PC/followers could be (MCM chance, maybe even weighted by scenario performance)

 

sold to a local Slaver via SD+, PC only

transferred off to Simple Slavery, PC only

left in a cage/kennel/random piece of furniture for a short while as final humiliation, until released, PC and Foloowers     

 

You could probably run a limited version of that in the countryside / bandit camps too, without the prostitution, but required PC tasks might be more domestic,, eg herb gathering etc

 

Or

 

you could end up with a sale to a local slaver, who sets up a toy bank on the edge of town (like the Khajit caravans), who takes the PC round Skyrim with them, and sends them out to find clients to bring back to use the toys. (Maybe even just as a sideline for the existing caravans ? ?  

 

PC 'scenario end' options would be buyout, fees charged being based on MCM chance of slaver, or PC, choosing fate, service rendered and time served in device, the harder that is the more charged - OR murdering the boss, but with a mandatory BIG bounty,   Further risk could be random resale to another slaver, with the buyout target being reset

 

I realise that there are some other similar mods, ey Tyrant's BFW, but this sort of scenario would fit better into Kimy's sub plots / style of action, but actually put some context to the use of furniture assets, where the player actually got something out of them, without it just being a purely passive experience

 

FWIW, anyhow, some meandering thoughts ...blah blah, yadda yadda, wall of words, etc

 

Anyone wants to use any of the ideas, feel free

[Mr.Nobody000]

Hey! I am new to this mod, and i am having trouble figuring out where can i find the key, if i am trapped in a suit :D Can anyone help me?

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, Mr.Nobody000 said:

Hey! I am new to this mod, and i am having trouble figuring out where can i find the key, if i am trapped in a suit Can anyone help me?

You should have edited MCM options for this mod first. The default settings are very strict, and you could be stuck for hours if it's the one with multiple locks. You can hope for keys from all sources you can get trap of, when you loot anything. Or ask npcs, especially the blacksmiths or innkeepers to free you. From the MCM you will learn the ways you can free yourself and suit your playstyle. For now i assume your menus are locked but you can use the "Free Me" option in the last tab if you're truly stuck.

[Mr.Nobody000]

1 minute ago, Zaflis said:

You should have edited MCM options for this mod first. The default settings are very strict, and you could be stuck for hours if it's the one with multiple locks. You can hope for keys from all sources you can get trap of, when you loot anything. Or ask npcs, especially the blacksmiths or innkeepers to free you. From the MCM you will learn the ways you can free yourself and suit your playstyle. For now i assume your menus are locked but you can use the "Free Me" option in the last tab if you're truly stuck.

Thank you so much sir!