Devious Cidhna (May-5-2018)

[Content Consumer]

Just played through Cidhna mine, it was great. But I have two problems:

 

1. After siding with Thonar, in the "Confusion for the Forsworn" quest, I am starting to collect a disguise, I get the boots fine, but the second person I ask (torso) gives me the armor, says I can't wear it without an armbinder, then takes the armbinder off, at which point he says "how did you get free" and all the Forsworn attack me.

 

2. After siding with Madanach, when I get to Druadach Redoubt, all the named Forsworn there are outside the cave, and hostile... not to me, but they're facing the cliff face, weapons out, as if they're aggressive against another target. Looking around, going around the hill, etc. there are no targets, no living things, not even a rabbit there (tried detect life/dead too). Since the Forsworn are in combat mode, permanently, I can't do any quests (can start the quests, since Madanach is in the cave and not aggressive, but can't for example talk to Borkul for the Meeting the Neighbors quest). Really, I'm not sure this has anything to do with this mod specifically, it might just be they're hostile to something outside of visual range or something and just stuck, but just in case it IS part of this mod I thought I'd mention it.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I don't have Deviously Helpless installed or anything, I read that it conflicted with this quest, and this character never has had it on from the beginning, not just disabled.

[stobor]

I don't recall anything in this mod that would remove an armbinder in Karthspire.  When testing, I just struggled out of it.  If you use the default DDI armbinder dialogue to get it removed, I'd expect hostilities to commence afterwards.  Collect all armor pieces first, then get loose (somewhere out of sight).

 

The second issue sounds unrelated to this mod.  Most likely, if you go away for a while they'll find their way indoors.

[Content Consumer]

I don't recall anything in this mod that would remove an armbinder in Karthspire.  When testing, I just struggled out of it.  If you use the default DDI armbinder dialogue to get it removed, I'd expect hostilities to commence afterwards.  Collect all armor pieces first, then get loose (somewhere out of sight).

 

The second issue sounds unrelated to this mod.  Most likely, if you go away for a while they'll find their way indoors.

I never actually used the "can you help me" dialog option (DDI armbinder removal), I just tried this mod's specific dialog, and the armbinder was removed. However, I just tried the whole thing again, and it works fine now... I've no idea what happened, but I'm happy it's fixed.

 

As for the forsworn at Druadach Redoubt being hostile, I figured out what the problem was - for some reason, all the forsworn, after fighting in the city, ran through the door and teleported to Druadach (as is supposed to happen) except Borkul - he just exited the doors and ran all the way there, and was being chased by a Markarth city guard the whole way, and somehow they attracted some Afflicted, it was an interesting sight, seeing an Orc Forsworn being chased by a Markarth city guard being chased by a pair of Afflicted.

[WaterRabbit]

For Pirate's Prize, can Thonar be killed after doing the Confusion to the Forsworn and still have it trigger?

 

 

Just to let you know, on a clean install playthrough all of the quests worked as they should have.

[Grim]

How do i advance after get blindfold? I get skooma but don't know what should I do to past Borkul the beast and after that how do I get out of cidhna mine, pls help

[PubliusNV]

How do i advance after get blindfold? I get skooma but don't know what should I do to past Borkul the beast and after that how do I get out of cidhna mine, pls help

 

You can still trade the skooma for a shiv, and give the shiv to Borkul, as in the unmodded quest.

 

[thomastm]

i love this quest mod, would love to see more quest in the furture. maybe can do a quest inside markarth abandoned house.

[jfraser]

 

How do i advance after get blindfold? I get skooma but don't know what should I do to past Borkul the beast and after that how do I get out of cidhna mine, pls help

 

You can still trade the skooma for a shiv, and give the shiv to Borkul, as in the unmodded quest.

 

 

 

Yes, that is part  of the actual game, not the mod. You can trade the skooma for a shiv or you can just offer the skooma to Borkul and he'll let you in. Then talk to Madanoch and follow his instructions to escape.

[justbob2]

I completed the 'Confusion to the Forsworn' quest without any major problems. I did experience a lot of CTD's during the events in Karthspire. I'm not willing to say this mod was the cause (I use a lot of mods), but I thought I'd mention it in case others had a similar issue. I also was attacked after talking one of the Forsworn into taking off the armbinder, as mentioned earlier. I replayed from a save just before that and struggled free myself instead .. that worked fine. I went outside in my disguise and was not attacked before escaping.

 

A suggestion: To play this path, you have to give up the Armor of the Gods you normally get from Madanach. Thonar only gives you some fine clothes. Especially if you are a lower level player, this makes a difference. Could you modify this to allow Thonar to give you the armor? He could say he got it from a captured Forsworn conspirator .. maybe the one who normally meets you when you escape with Madanach?

[WaterRabbit]

This has always been the trade-off in this quest -- instead of the Armor of the Gods you get the Silver-Blood Family Ring (Fortify Smithing 15).

 

I was getting CTDs in Karthspire as well.  I changed the order in which I talked with the inhabitants of the cave and that seemed to help.

[Kuロi]

This has always been the trade-off in this quest -- instead of the Armor of the Gods you get the Silver-Blood Family Ring (Fortify Smithing 15).

 

I was getting CTDs in Karthspire as well.  I changed the order in which I talked with the inhabitants of the cave and that seemed to help.

 

There's a trick to actually get both, seems even better roleplay-wise since it makes sense. Instead of killing Madanach in the mine, follow him and his followers while they fight their way through the escape route (considering the character is both exhausted from the sex as well as naked and useless). Once you get to the end and Madanach turns to you, let him give you the armor, and as soon as the others are outside, back-stab him (No need for honor here). Thonar will still thank you for getting rid of Madanach and reward you.

 

The only possible problem with this method is that, when I did it, Madanach's followers (obviously) turned on me, but the guards nearby, as well as Thonar himself, never really cared about the horde of forsworn that just came out of the tunnel. So I ended up having to fight'em all at once. Will this happen every time? I don't know, Skyrim does seem to have different moods depending on who's playing and how modded it is, but there you go, one way to get the Armor of the Old Gods set.

[justbob2]

 

This has always been the trade-off in this quest -- instead of the Armor of the Gods you get the Silver-Blood Family Ring (Fortify Smithing 15).

 

I was getting CTDs in Karthspire as well.  I changed the order in which I talked with the inhabitants of the cave and that seemed to help.

 

There's a trick to actually get both, seems even better roleplay-wise since it makes sense. Instead of killing Madanach in the mine, follow him and his followers while they fight their way through the escape route (considering the character is both exhausted from the sex as well as naked and useless). Once you get to the end and Madanach turns to you, let him give you the armor, and as soon as the others are outside, back-stab him (No need for honor here). Thonar will still thank you for getting rid of Madanach and reward you.

 

The only possible problem with this method is that, when I did it, Madanach's followers (obviously) turned on me, but the guards nearby, as well as Thonar himself, never really cared about the horde of forsworn that just came out of the tunnel. So I ended up having to fight'em all at once. Will this happen every time? I don't know, Skyrim does seem to have different moods depending on who's playing and how modded it is, but there you go, one way to get the Armor of the Old Gods set.

 

 

WaterRabbit - I forgot about the ring .. I guess that does balance it a little. As far as the CTD's, I got in the habit of saving before talking to anyone. If I got a CTD, I would restart and talk to someone else instead .. kind of hit-or-miss, but it seems to be the same thing you mentioned.

 

MrPrincePapa - Interesting idea, but problematic for sure. Now that I've experienced this quest, I'll think I'll stick with the other option (escape with Madanach) in most future games. Without Madanach, you lose the opportunity to do the other two quests too, correct? So, unless Stobor makes it possible in future updates for Thonar to give you additional quests, you get more game-play and a better reward by sticking with the king in rags.

[itaita13]

I had a strange bug happen when i was in Cidhna. Somewhere in the mines events i lost the ability to attack. I dont know when it triggered but i first noticed it when i was asked to kill Grisvar and went to shiv him and i couldent attack him. I was able to get rid of him and advance the quest since i was a vampire and i was able to bite him to death. But i was no longer able to attack (even after the quest ended). Its not a super serious problem cause it fixed itself when i quit and restarted the game.

 

Only posting this here because i never had this happen with any other mod so im not sure if its tied to something in this mod. Or i just ran into a wonky bug i never knew about tied to devious devices.

 

That sillyness aside i thought the mod was great fun! the extra stuff at the end the most. If i had to make any suggestion its to maybe add another extra quest or two for Thonar if you side with him. Maybe something that triggers if you help him and have not cleared out Sanuarach mine? Either way keep up the good work!

[jfraser]

I had a strange bug happen when i was in Cidhna. Somewhere in the mines events i lost the ability to attack. I dont know when it triggered but i first noticed it when i was asked to kill Grisvar and went to shiv him and i couldent attack him. I was able to get rid of him and advance the quest since i was a vampire and i was able to bite him to death. But i was no longer able to attack (even after the quest ended). Its not a super serious problem cause it fixed itself when i quit and restarted the game.

 

Only posting this here because i never had this happen with any other mod so im not sure if its tied to something in this mod. Or i just ran into a wonky bug i never knew about tied to devious devices.

 

That sillyness aside i thought the mod was great fun! the extra stuff at the end the most. If i had to make any suggestion its to maybe add another extra quest or two for Thonar if you side with him. Maybe something that triggers if you help him and have not cleared out Sanuarach mine? Either way keep up the good work!

Since it fixed itself with a reload, sounds like it was just a Skyrim code misfire. Those happen from time to time. Probably nothing to worry about.

[Krh]

This mod is a real gem. Relatively simple and small in scope, it works perfectly from both technical and immersion angles. A questline that was already sneakier than most as vanilla got a nice and seedy layer of kinkiness to it. Nothing felt over the top or silly. Very well done, Stobor.

My first playthrough went like this:

I loaded a save with a level five or six PC. She has done some bounty hunting and bandit clearing near Whiterun, main quest frozen at "deliver Dragonstone to Jarl's wizard" stage so not really Dragonborn yet, if ever. Traveled to Markarth, witnessed a murder, got involved helping a guard investigate. A rape by a thug and another by Nepos made the whole thing personal (I wasn't trying to get either to happen, Defeat just worked its magic).

Things started to look bleak when the honest guard was found dead and the conspirators' lackeys sent the PC into the mines. If she could just get to this Madanach, things would make sense and maybe it all would be worth the indignities suffered. It wasn't easy or pleasant, but finally she met the King in Rags. He had a story to tell and his restraints kept the brutes from touching her. There was little choice but to follow the Forsworn outside and join them in the escape. Madanach even arranged for her belongings to be retrieved - maybe he was a King afterall.

The Silverbloods and their scheming had cost her a lot. Free, armed and armored, it was time to seek revenge. Attacking them in Markarth would only get her thrown back into that horrible mine, but didn't they have plans in motion elsewhere? Freeing a mine from Silverblood control would both be suitable payback and do some good for the locals. Unfortunately, a miner got hit by a stray lightning bolt and it was time leave the Reach - quickly.

A comfortable enough bed was found in the ruins of a farmhouse near Whiterun. She could've pressed on and slept at the Bannered Mare, but after everything that had happened recently, she just wanted to be alone for a while. That turned out to be a mistake. The pirate ordeal left her in a state of profound insecurity. The Silverbloods could get to her anywhere, but maybe she could stay hidden with the Forsworn. Madanach had protected her before and shown kindness.

Safety came with a price. Life wasn't so bad after that orc incident, though. Borkul was an evil bastard, but Madanach's demands were mostly reasonable. He needed her help to stay in control, and him being in charge meant Borkul wouldn't be. She just needed to stay safe until the Silverbloods forgot about her. Yes, it was humiliating sometimes, but not as bad as the mines - or the pirates. It wasn't so bad, and it was only temporary.

The follow-up quests made the whole thing memorable as a complete(?) storyline. Things happened smoothly, and details like Markarth NPCs commenting on the mine events really sealed the deal for me.

Thoughts about further expansion:

It's probably best to leave the Redoubt as it is, or focus on Madanach as a quest giver/point of interaction (as we wouldn't be there if he hadn't survived the escape). The repeatable interactions already in place are nice, and adding busywork in the vein of "bring me ten bear asses" wouldn't serve a purpose. There could be more diplomatic or courier missions: the PC is a loyal pet (or is she?), possibly collared and easy on the eye.

How about adding to interactions with Markarth NPCs? There could still be Forsworn sleeper agents in the city, or Madanach could send the PC to hire new agents and gather information. The Warrens would be the perfect spot for devious things to happen, as it's out of sight and nobody really cares what goes on with the poor.

Let's say the PC tries to get Garvey the Sneak trainer to join the cause (or some completely new NPC in his stead). Maybe he agrees but needs some convincing. Maybe he realizes he's now in a position to blackmail a beautiful woman above his own lowly status and demands she do degrading things (could be sex or something more perverted, like her pissing while he watches, stuffing something up her ass, wearing plugs etc.), lest he tell the guards. Who would be believed: a local poor man or some adventuring slut who serviced the whole mine?

Further along this line of thought, something like the mine events, time spent with the Forsworn and escaping with them wouldn't be easy to live down. The one-shot(?) comments by NPCs could be repeatable and/or expanded into conversations: some might want to know details, others wonder how the PC doesn't die of shame just showing her face in public, others still try to exploit her questionable fame. Imagine Degaine the cranky beggar shouting loudly in the market how the PC is a Forsworn whore or the only slut to have survived the prisoners. She'll ask him to stop and he will - if she goes with him for a private performance (she could kill him, of course, but Degaine seems like the kind of bitter asshole who'd be willing to risk it).

I could go on, but this has already grown into a wall of text.

[wfowfo]

For me this mod is the main reason to install devious devices. Good work.

[WaterRabbit]

 

 

 

 

 

This has always been the trade-off in this quest -- instead of the Armor of the Gods you get the Silver-Blood Family Ring (Fortify Smithing 15).

 

I was getting CTDs in Karthspire as well.  I changed the order in which I talked with the inhabitants of the cave and that seemed to help.

 

There's a trick to actually get both, seems even better roleplay-wise since it makes sense. Instead of killing Madanach in the mine, follow him and his followers while they fight their way through the escape route (considering the character is both exhausted from the sex as well as naked and useless). Once you get to the end and Madanach turns to you, let him give you the armor, and as soon as the others are outside, back-stab him (No need for honor here). Thonar will still thank you for getting rid of Madanach and reward you.

 

The only possible problem with this method is that, when I did it, Madanach's followers (obviously) turned on me, but the guards nearby, as well as Thonar himself, never really cared about the horde of forsworn that just came out of the tunnel. So I ended up having to fight'em all at once. Will this happen every time? I don't know, Skyrim does seem to have different moods depending on who's playing and how modded it is, but there you go, one way to get the Armor of the Old Gods set.

 

 

 

 

WaterRabbit - I forgot about the ring .. I guess that does balance it a little. As far as the CTD's, I got in the habit of saving before talking to anyone. If I got a CTD, I would restart and talk to someone else instead .. kind of hit-or-miss, but it seems to be the same thing you mentioned.

 

MrPrincePapa - Interesting idea, but problematic for sure. Now that I've experienced this quest, I'll think I'll stick with the other option (escape with Madanach) in most future games. Without Madanach, you lose the opportunity to do the other two quests too, correct? So, unless Stobor makes it possible in future updates for Thonar to give you additional quests, you get more game-play and a better reward by sticking with the king in rags.

 

 

There are two quests with Madanach and an additional one if you have Thonar killed.  There is just the one quest with Thonar.  However, if you side with Madanach the NPCs in Markarth constantly whine at you afterward.  There are a couple of mods that expand the Forsworn so that might make it more worthwhile.  

 

If you could take out Madanach and then kill Thonar later and get the Pirate Quest after the infiltration it would be worth it for sure.

[WaterRabbit]

 

This has always been the trade-off in this quest -- instead of the Armor of the Gods you get the Silver-Blood Family Ring (Fortify Smithing 15).

 

I was getting CTDs in Karthspire as well.  I changed the order in which I talked with the inhabitants of the cave and that seemed to help.

 

There's a trick to actually get both, seems even better roleplay-wise since it makes sense. Instead of killing Madanach in the mine, follow him and his followers while they fight their way through the escape route (considering the character is both exhausted from the sex as well as naked and useless). Once you get to the end and Madanach turns to you, let him give you the armor, and as soon as the others are outside, back-stab him (No need for honor here). Thonar will still thank you for getting rid of Madanach and reward you.

 

The only possible problem with this method is that, when I did it, Madanach's followers (obviously) turned on me, but the guards nearby, as well as Thonar himself, never really cared about the horde of forsworn that just came out of the tunnel. So I ended up having to fight'em all at once. Will this happen every time? I don't know, Skyrim does seem to have different moods depending on who's playing and how modded it is, but there you go, one way to get the Armor of the Old Gods set.

 

 

I am aware of this but never tried it as it is clearly an exploit.  By the time I do this quest neither the ring or the armor is much of an incentive for me, so I generally choose to kill Madanach.  Otherwise, the constant harping from the Markarth NPCs gets annoying.   

[stobor]

@Krh:  Glad you enjoyed it.  I like the suggestion to give Garvey a role - he's a mercenary soul, so he could be recruited for either side.

[shadowfrog_k]

the most wonderfull mod of devices

[MongkeQaan]

This mod is a lot of fun, thank you! I have to say, this mod was the first time that I considered working with Madanach in order to get the future quests, but I decided to kill him anyway. I do wonder if you will consider having Thonar and or Madanach offering more quests... or should I kill Thonar as well in order to get kidnapped by pirates?

Thanks again for all the great work! Keep it up!

[nightdweller7]

I finished the meet the neighbours quest and was told my gear was in the large chest,

I'm not sure if your using a script but that chest is a forsworn boss chest and its set to respawn,

Not lost anything yet but I did notice a quest item in there and that's what raised my suspicion,

I must admit if it was me I would have added a new container to store the gear simply for peace of mind.

 

 

[stobor]

Not too concerned about it, unless you take 10+ days to complete the quest.  Which seems a bit unlikely.

[Rouge]

Just finished the mine, and it went pretty well..... My char is only about level 10 and just got finished running "Quick as You Like" (Decided to start over and run that one first before starting frostfall) The only thing I think needs to change is that when you make a comment about getting a shiv and killing one of the guys, he replies about if he were to give me one the others would kill him. But that's what I am trying to get in the first place. 

 

So after getting abused several times I finally get the shiv to go see Madanach, I didn't see the option for him to remove the blindfold and he sent me to go talk to Braig and hear his story. So more abuse on the way there and back, but when I got back and told Madanach that I had talked to him, I asked him to remove the blindfold he put leg and arm restraints as well as a collar on me and then made me blow him, and as I finished he tried to hit me with his pickaxe. So I killed him and escaped (which means everyone else is still in the mine). Thonar Silver-Blood met me outside and gave me all my stuff back and told me that I was pardoned. He then asked me to do him a favor and when I agreed he stripped me naked and off to set a trap I went. The thing that I really liked was all the comments I got about being abused while I was in the mine.

 

I'm curious as to what will happen if I get sent back!!

[Ashra XIII]

I also just completed this mod and found it quite enjoyable! Excellent work as always, Stobor.

 

I personally decided to go with Madanoch, and loved the post-Cidhna as much as the mine stuff, possibly more. It really helps flesh out the whole thing in my opinion, and I personally would love to see the quest line expand further. My own preference would be to have Borkul get to be more of a bastard to my character, getting her caught up in humiliating circumstances in the name of the Forsworn.

 

Keep up the great work!