Animal Research: The Insatiable Scholar

[figordo5]

just s tupid question, does loading old save may break the quest? like i said it last week i manage to make it work and i'm using that save

[killer905]

4 minutes ago, figordo5 said:

just s tupid question, does loading old save may break the quest? like i said it last week i manage to make it work and i'm using that save

No, but if you saved during or after Tirwin's interaction with the wolf, they will remain in that state. You can also use setstage, but other creatures may not work for you either.

[figordo5]

20 hours ago, killer905 said:

No, but if you saved during or after Tirwin's interaction with the wolf, they will remain in that state. You can also use setstage, but other creatures may not work for you either.

Good news, complete reinstall solved the problem, bad news... creatures have no cock, did i miss something?

[killer905]

2 hours ago, figordo5 said:

Good news, complete reinstall solved the problem, bad news... creatures have no cock, did i miss something?

More Nasty Critters

LE

SE/AE

 

[Niadrion]

I seem to have a little issue with Tirwin as a follower. She apparently likes to get into brawls with either my summons or any other followers (for example: Serana) during combat with multiple enemies.. I can stop the fighting with the "stopcombat" console command, but it feels weird. She is more like someone tagging along instead of being a proper follower.

[killer905]

26 minutes ago, Niadrion said:

I seem to have a little issue with Tirwin as a follower. She apparently likes to get into brawls with either my summons or any other followers (for example: Serana) during combat with multiple enemies.. I can stop the fighting with the "stopcombat" console command, but it feels weird. She is more like someone tagging along instead of being a proper follower.

If Tirwin takes damage from your summons, another follower (Serana) or Ragnar, she will start attacking them.

To be honest, she should ignore damage dealt by others, but I'm not sure.

[Niadrion]

Then my only solution is to use that console command to force them to stop fighting. Havent tried calm and pacify spells tho, got to try them next time it happens.

[eflat01]

4 hours ago, Niadrion said:

I seem to have a little issue with Tirwin as a follower. She apparently likes to get into brawls with either my summons or any other followers (for example: Serana) during combat with multiple enemies.. I can stop the fighting with the "stopcombat" console command, but it feels weird. She is more like someone tagging along instead of being a proper follower.

 

1 hour ago, Niadrion said:

Then my only solution is to use that console command to force them to stop fighting. Havent tried calm and pacify spells tho, got to try them next time it happens.

 

I do not have that issue but I do know there are mods out there to handle things like that.

[kamithemoon]

I redid the FemaleEventoned voice using a new TTS and I'm looking for feedback to see if came out better.  It won't be able to replace everything, but can definitely replace a lot and make things much easier on me.  This one was pure automation.  Whereas, normally I would listen to each generated dialogue to weed out artifacting and tearing and to try and get the emotion correct.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/46247-animal-research-new-generation-for-tirwin/

 

[kamithemoon]

On 12/24/2025 at 3:20 AM, Niadrion said:

I seem to have a little issue with Tirwin as a follower. She apparently likes to get into brawls with either my summons or any other followers (for example: Serana) during combat with multiple enemies.. I can stop the fighting with the "stopcombat" console command, but it feels weird. She is more like someone tagging along instead of being a proper follower.

This is normal vanilla behavior.  In vanilla, you're supposed to be limited to only one follower so an option to turn off friendly fire was never implemented and Serana is notorious for this as her Ice Storm spell is an AOE that will hit multiple targets and cause them to aggro.

 

There are several nexus mods that can stop or mitigate this issue.  The one I like to use is Simple Offense Suppression.  There is also the option of using Nether's Follower Framework and during install, check the options to turn off friendly fire.  This will only affect vanilla spells and does so simply by adding a condition to each spell to do no harm to your current followers if the caster is also a follower.

[Niadrion]

Gonna try that Simple Offense Suppression, I got nether's follower framework but chose not use it since I managed to break quite a few modded followers with it.

[eflat01]

5 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

This is normal vanilla behavior.  In vanilla, you're supposed to be limited to only one follower so an option to turn off friendly fire was never implemented and Serana is notorious for this as her Ice Storm spell is an AOE that will hit multiple targets and cause them to aggro.

 

There are several nexus mods that can stop or mitigate this issue.  The one I like to use is Simple Offense Suppression.  There is also the option of using Nether's Follower Framework and during install, check the options to turn off friendly fire.  This will only affect vanilla spells and does so simply by adding a condition to each spell to do no harm to your current followers if the caster is also a follower.

 

 Simple Offense Suppression and the mod No Friendly Fire should work but do not put Tirwin in any follower framework like NFF that will break the mod. Tirwin has her own follower engine which controls clothing switching and I think some of her dialog is linked to it. 

 

I use AFT (which allows removing friendly damage) for all followers with exceptions of Serana and Tirwin. 

Edited December 26, 2025 by eflat01

[kamithemoon]

8 hours ago, Niadrion said:

Gonna try that Simple Offense Suppression, I got nether's follower framework but chose not use it since I managed to break quite a few modded followers with it.

Confirming what eflat01 has said.  Do not ever import a custom follower with their own AI into a generic follower framework such as NFF.  NFF will not automatically import them for a reason and every custom follower with their own AI generally says very clearly not to import them into a generic follower framework.  Though it occurs to me, that I don't think I saw that disclaimer yet for Tirwin.  I guess at this point it may have just been assumed that it was common knowledge.  Generic follower frameworks are only for vanilla followers or for followers that use the vanilla system, such as Interesting NPCs.

[killer905]

2 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

Confirming what eflat01 has said.  Do not ever import a custom follower with their own AI into a generic follower framework such as NFF.  NFF will not automatically import them for a reason and every custom follower with their own AI generally says very clearly not to import them into a generic follower framework.  Though it occurs to me, that I don't think I saw that disclaimer yet for Tirwin.  I guess at this point it may have just been assumed that it was common knowledge.  Generic follower frameworks are only for vanilla followers or for followers that use the vanilla system, such as Interesting NPCs.

I don't know is Gristle use any Freamwork, but I use NFF, I don't import Tirwin into NFF either, because I knew about its special AI. It is obvious to me that custom followers are not imported into these frameworks due to their special behaviours or other factors. Unless one of these mods only adds nice-looking followers and nothing else, i.e. without any history of special behaviours.

[eflat01]

1 hour ago, killer905 said:

I don't know is Gristle use any Freamwork, but I use NFF, I don't import Tirwin into NFF either, because I knew about its special AI. It is obvious to me that custom followers are not imported into these frameworks due to their special behaviours or other factors. Unless one of these mods only adds nice-looking followers and nothing else, i.e. without any history of special behaviours.

 

May be something you and @Gristle might care to look into sometime down the road after all the quests are complete? 

 

I do not know how NFF and ATF work internally to prevent friendly damage among followers technically but assume they id npcs by the faction or set a teammate variable?...  AFT uses it's own  factions and I think possibly includes CurrentFollowerFaction or maybe even PotentialFollowerFaction to set a variable? The thing is I think they may add condition via  variables on all the melee. archery and destruction spells to do that?  All I know is Lydia and other followers I have in AFT can't hurt Tirwin and Ragnar. 

 

 

[kamithemoon]

4 hours ago, eflat01 said:

 

May be something you and @Gristle might care to look into sometime down the road after all the quests are complete? 

 

I do not know how NFF and ATF work internally to prevent friendly damage among followers technically but assume they id npcs by the faction or set a teammate variable?...  AFT uses it's own  factions and I think possibly includes CurrentFollowerFaction or maybe even PotentialFollowerFaction to set a variable? The thing is I think they may add condition via  variables on all the melee. archery and destruction spells to do that?  All I know is Lydia and other followers I have in AFT can't hurt Tirwin and Ragnar. 

 

 

Afaik, ATF doesn't have any checks.  It auto imports followers into it's framework, I think, which can eventually break custom followers.  I vaguely recall it being insidious too, and not happening immediately, but slowly Recorder and Inigo started glitching out for me until they just didn't work anymore.  The same thing happens with NFF if you import.  I recall a long time ago, I imported Inigo into NFF because I liked it's custom armor and teleport feature.  Everything worked fine at first, but slowly he started glitching out.

 

I would guess though that if Tirwin does have a custom framework, it might be a bit bare bones so that ATF's packages doesn't affect things much.  But I personally wouldn't chance it.

[kamithemoon]

4 hours ago, eflat01 said:

 

May be something you and @Gristle might care to look into sometime down the road after all the quests are complete? 

 

I do not know how NFF and ATF work internally to prevent friendly damage among followers technically but assume they id npcs by the faction or set a teammate variable?...  AFT uses it's own  factions and I think possibly includes CurrentFollowerFaction or maybe even PotentialFollowerFaction to set a variable? The thing is I think they may add condition via  variables on all the melee. archery and destruction spells to do that?  All I know is Lydia and other followers I have in AFT can't hurt Tirwin and Ragnar. 

 

 

Afaik, ATF doesn't have any checks.  It auto imports followers into it's framework, I think, which can eventually break custom followers.  I vaguely recall it being insidious too, and not happening immediately, but slowly Recorder and Inigo started glitching out for me until they just didn't work anymore.  The same thing happens with NFF if you import.  I recall a long time ago, I imported Inigo into NFF because I liked it's custom armor and teleport feature.  Everything worked fine at first, but slowly he started glitching out.

 

I would guess though that if Tirwin does have a custom framework, it might be a bit bare bones so that ATF's packages doesn't affect things much.  But I personally wouldn't chance it.

[killer905]

13 hours ago, eflat01 said:

 

May be something you and @Gristle might care to look into sometime down the road after all the quests are complete? 

 

I do not know how NFF and ATF work internally to prevent friendly damage among followers technically but assume they id npcs by the faction or set a teammate variable?...  AFT uses it's own  factions and I think possibly includes CurrentFollowerFaction or maybe even PotentialFollowerFaction to set a variable? The thing is I think they may add condition via  variables on all the melee. archery and destruction spells to do that?  All I know is Lydia and other followers I have in AFT can't hurt Tirwin and Ragnar. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

Afaik, ATF doesn't have any checks.  It auto imports followers into it's framework, I think, which can eventually break custom followers.  I vaguely recall it being insidious too, and not happening immediately, but slowly Recorder and Inigo started glitching out for me until they just didn't work anymore.  The same thing happens with NFF if you import.  I recall a long time ago, I imported Inigo into NFF because I liked it's custom armor and teleport feature.  Everything worked fine at first, but slowly he started glitching out.

 

I would guess though that if Tirwin does have a custom framework, it might be a bit bare bones so that ATF's packages doesn't affect things much.  But I personally wouldn't chance it.

 

9 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

Afaik, ATF doesn't have any checks.  It auto imports followers into it's framework, I think, which can eventually break custom followers.  I vaguely recall it being insidious too, and not happening immediately, but slowly Recorder and Inigo started glitching out for me until they just didn't work anymore.  The same thing happens with NFF if you import.  I recall a long time ago, I imported Inigo into NFF because I liked it's custom armor and teleport feature.  Everything worked fine at first, but slowly he started glitching out.

 

I would guess though that if Tirwin does have a custom framework, it might be a bit bare bones so that ATF's packages doesn't affect things much.  But I personally wouldn't chance it.

We plan to implement QoL after completing the main quests so that Tirwin can still be useful in regular adventures.

 

As for the framework followers, Tirtwin should not be imported ‘automatically’ because she does not use PotentialFollowerFaction or CurrentFollowerFaction. She also has a script assigned to ignore damage from allies.

[monsta88]

First time user feedback v0.46

 

It is an interesting concept that it is not the Dragonborn the main character. I like that we are just helping Tirwin to reach her goals and it is up to the player (most of the time) if the DB wants to participate or not.

 

Tirwin as NPC works quite well, she has very good comments about recent events and places. I also like her hairdo options, I didn't see any other NPC changing their hair by themselves before. That being said she has some compatibility issues, for example with Unforgiving Devices. When Devious Devices get equipped on her, she can't remove them. Me, as the player also can't help her remove them, as I don't have access to her inventory. 

 

The quests are simple and unfortunately they become repetitive. They are always just find the book, find the animal, sex, rinse and repeat. It was a welcome change when there was one more simple step added, like talking to Aela. The Thalmor thread should also be investigated more.

 

I had multiple issues with quests though, I posted 2 of them above, but I mention them here too:

- I didn't listen to the initial dialogue in the Bannered Mare (I just popped in for an autograph from Mikhael and left at once). This broke the quest initialization. When I returned weeks later, I had to use the console to start the quest.

- I cleared the bandit camp where the wolf is before I got the quest from this mod. The key for the cage did not spawn in the chest, I had to use Modex to get it.

- I cleared Bloodskal Barrow too before I got the relevant quest. Now I didn't need to get the key for the mine, I just walked to the book. However the quest did not update when I picked it up.

- Almost all books are bugged in my game. When I pick them up, they don't update the quest. I have to drop them to the ground and pick them up again for the quest to update. This method did not help with the above issue unfortunately.

 

 

Overall the mod works quite well, especially that it is far from v1.0. Large amount of content, spreading all over Skyrim. I'd like to see the main quest line a bit more fleshed out, currently it is just a little more than an excuse to fuck animals.

 

[killer905]

32 minutes ago, monsta88 said:

First time user feedback v0.46

 

It is an interesting concept that it is not the Dragonborn the main character. I like that we are just helping Tirwin to reach her goals and it is up to the player (most of the time) if the DB wants to participate or not.

 

Tirwin as NPC works quite well, she has very good comments about recent events and places. I also like her hairdo options, I didn't see any other NPC changing their hair by themselves before. That being said she has some compatibility issues, for example with Unforgiving Devices. When Devious Devices get equipped on her, she can't remove them. Me, as the player also can't help her remove them, as I don't have access to her inventory. 

 

The quests are simple and unfortunately they become repetitive. They are always just find the book, find the animal, sex, rinse and repeat. It was a welcome change when there was one more simple step added, like talking to Aela. The Thalmor thread should also be investigated more.

 

I had multiple issues with quests though, I posted 2 of them above, but I mention them here too:

- I didn't listen to the initial dialogue in the Bannered Mare (I just popped in for an autograph from Mikhael and left at once). This broke the quest initialization. When I returned weeks later, I had to use the console to start the quest.

- I cleared the bandit camp where the wolf is before I got the quest from this mod. The key for the cage did not spawn in the chest, I had to use Modex to get it.

- I cleared Bloodskal Barrow too before I got the relevant quest. Now I didn't need to get the key for the mine, I just walked to the book. However the quest did not update when I picked it up.

- Almost all books are bugged in my game. When I pick them up, they don't update the quest. I have to drop them to the ground and pick them up again for the quest to update. This method did not help with the above issue unfortunately.

 

 

Overall the mod works quite well, especially that it is far from v1.0. Large amount of content, spreading all over Skyrim. I'd like to see the main quest line a bit more fleshed out, currently it is just a little more than an excuse to fuck animals.

 

Locations you have already visited (only cells such as Bloodskal Barrow) should be reset. This means there should be enemies, locked doors, etc.
It is quite strange that the quest does not update after picking up the book. My suggestion would be to start the adventure on a new save and see if your problems recur. 

As for Unforgiving Devices, I don't know why Tirwin get things from DD.

 

You're quite early in the mod's adventure, but there are quests that involve something other than ‘find a book, find a creature, Tirwin fucking with a creature, PC fucking Tirwin or a creature’.

 

The upcoming update adds 5 creatures and 2 other quests.

[eflat01]

7 hours ago, killer905 said:

 

 

We plan to implement QoL after completing the main quests so that Tirwin can still be useful in regular adventures.

 

As for the framework followers, Tirtwin should not be imported ‘automatically’ because she does not use PotentialFollowerFaction or CurrentFollowerFaction. She also has a script assigned to ignore damage from allies.

 

I suppose I should had been clearly in what I meant in my previous post.

 

I was not suggesting any patch on Tirwin to allow her be added to another follower framework. What I was suggesting was looking into how AFT and NFF implements their not allowing followers to cause damage cause damage to one  another. I'm not sure how NFF does that but I know AFT does because I use it but no on Tirwin. 

 

What some players had asked was how to avoid damage between followers. I know there are mods for that but I was suggesting adding it in AR at some point down the road if it's easy enough.

 

I looked at AFT in SSeEdit not in CK though which would be more concise, Anyway, I noticed it does so by altering spell, melee and archery damage conditions. - iow. it excludes damage via a variable check - which is set determined by npc factions thus preventing any current followers from causing damage to another while they are active followers. Tirwin happens to be in her own faction and so it seems to me if you can determine other followers by their faction and they're following the player it may possibly be done. 

 

(btw I use AFT but do not pull Tirwin into it - It does not pull followers automatic ally. You to use it you have to add any follower into AFT via dialog options. I avoid doing that on Tirwin and Serana - the later because I use SDA so she has most her out outfit, training, etc... via that). 

Edited December 27, 2025 by eflat01

[killer905]

25 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

 

I suppose I should had been clearly in what I meant in my previous post.

 

I was not suggesting any patch on Tirwin to allow her be added to another follower framework. What I was suggesting was looking into how AFT and NFF implements their not allowing followers to cause damage cause damage to one  another. I'm not sure how NFF does that but I know AFT does because I use it but no on Tirwin. 

 

What some players had asked was how to avoid damage between followers. I know there are mods for that but I was suggesting adding it in AR at some point down the road if it's easy enough.

 

I looked at AFT in SSeEdit not in CK though which would be more concise, Anyway, I noticed it does so by altering spell, melee and archery damage conditions. - iow. it excludes damage via a variable check - which is set determined by npc factions thus preventing any current followers from causing damage to another while they are active followers. Tirwin happens to be in her own faction and so it seems to me if you can determine other followers by their faction and they're following the player it may possibly be done. 

 

(btw I use AFT but do not pull Tirwin into it - It does not pull followers automatic ally. You to use it you have to add any follower into AFT via dialog options. I avoid doing that on Tirwin and Serana - the later because I use SDA so she has most her out outfit, training, etc... via that). 

As I wrote, Tirwin has a script that ignores damage from allies, but to be honest, he probably doesn't treat Seran as an ‘ally’?

When I wrote about QoL, I didn't mean patches for freamworks followers.

Personally, I don't have time for such tests, and I don't really use Tirwin and other vanilla/modded followers. Only Tirwin and Ragnar.

[ekw070]

I've reached the point in this quest (LE version) where Tirwin has sex with Ingun Black-Briar's dog.  Tirwin does the deed with the dog and Ingun collects the sample from Tirwin.  After that when I talk to Ingun she has a dialogue option relevant to the mod, then nothing happens afterwards.  I think Ingun is supposed to have sex with the dog, but nothing happens.  Am I missing something I'm supposed to do?

 

I've also noticed that when entering the lodge, after talking to the guy outside, there are mercs that will attack me.  Twice out of 3 times.  I've killed them without turning Ingun hostile or having collateral damage.  IDK if that has anything to do with it since Ingun still does the things that I expect up to the point I mentioned before.  I used the spell Blessed Weapon from the mod Forgotten Magic Redone to kill the mercs.  That particular spell's summons an axe that tracks down enemies, does not attack friendly/neutral NPCs, and hacks enemies apart.

[killer905]

1 hour ago, ekw070 said:

I've reached the point in this quest (LE version) where Tirwin has sex with Ingun Black-Briar's dog.  Tirwin does the deed with the dog and Ingun collects the sample from Tirwin.  After that when I talk to Ingun she has a dialogue option relevant to the mod, then nothing happens afterwards.  I think Ingun is supposed to have sex with the dog, but nothing happens.  Am I missing something I'm supposed to do?

 

I've also noticed that when entering the lodge, after talking to the guy outside, there are mercs that will attack me.  Twice out of 3 times.  I've killed them without turning Ingun hostile or having collateral damage.  IDK if that has anything to do with it since Ingun still does the things that I expect up to the point I mentioned before.  I used the spell Blessed Weapon from the mod Forgotten Magic Redone to kill the mercs.  That particular spell's summons an axe that tracks down enemies, does not attack friendly/neutral NPCs, and hacks enemies apart.

The stage should change to ‘Speak to Ingun about the dog.’ or try talking to Ingun.

 

As for the mercenaries, they shouldn't attack you. Have you completed/are you in the middle of/haven't you started the quest related to Maven's horse?

[Gristle]

On 12/17/2025 at 9:41 AM, eflat01 said:

 

Yes, I try to avoid many external location changes because they toy with other mods often. I use BOS based mods a lot when I can.

 

@killer905, @Gristle As far as I know from looking AR just needs a couple markers in the area? It should not care about tents and other resources, so can dups from base game be cleaned out? It's not altering the tent any,

 

I think this is the tent but not sure...

  Hide contents

 

 

 

That's not an added tent. Unfortunately, if you look at something funny in the CK (well, if you click on it) it shows that as a change. In this case, I must have clicked on the tent and it updated the form version of the tent from 39 to 44 (which should have no effect) and erased the prior version control info. None of this should matter, but it does show as a change in xEdit. I will unwind this edit, but I suspect the real issue is that this mod forces the Khajiits to camp outside Whiterun after leaving Dragonsreach with the dog book -- so the player doesn't have to wait a week for them to walk from Markarth.