nyaalich Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I've been clean saving every time. This is why I can't test nice things. *head desk* Starting over with a disposition of 3 each time = 50 first dates. EDIT: No seriously. I'm going to ball up in a corner and cry. At least I'll be able to provide better feedback (hopefully).
ChancellorKremlin Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It's not all bad nyaallich, I've just found out the man I wanted to build my life around won't have me because of my choice of profession... but what is a girl to do? Oh well, I'll have to find my another male NPC who doesn't look like a brahmin...
nyaalich Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 If you're cool with lying to him, you can always tell him that you've completed the Optional: Secret Past quest. ; ) After all, since it's just a placeholder, you don't have to do anything to complete it, so it's not a total lie. : D
t3589 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 I'm posting this as a test copy here, as I expect there to be problems with it. PayScale: I've set the pay scale according to suggestions. Which more or less forces the sexual experience mech to become arbitrary. ie. When base prices are set explicitly, experience beyond the patrons ability to pay become meaningless. For example: Let's say I have an anal experience of 10. If the cost of anal is 65 (which is a higher number than almost all NPCs in the game are capable of paying already, except merchants), you'll not get the full 65 caps anyway, let alone the 10 tacked on to it to make it 75. Which makes experience meaningless past the patrons capability to pay (which is quite a low number for the vast majority of NPCs in the game). It also introduces the question 'Why check if the NPC has enough to pay, if the answer is always no unless they're a merchant?'. Which in turn gives more credence to the idea that pay scale should be completely arbitrary and all these checks and mechs are rather obsolete, as the base price has already stolen their thunder so to speak. After Activity Dialogue: This was originally in, but caused freezes and crashes, so was removed. I expect the same result now that they're back in. Personally, I have no problem identifying when an activity is over. Whether you're eating, hanging out, or drinking, if they get up from their seat, it's over. If they're not seated during the activities, they'll go back to what they were doing. But then again I'm not using companions. I think the problem you're having is because you are using a companion, which is in follow mode, and therefore has nothing to go back to doing to indicate a finalization of the activity. If this test copy works without problems regarding after activity dialogue, then we're good to go. If not, I may have to tackle this when I work on companion compatibility firsthand. Let me know how it goes. EDIT: I also turned the console stats back on so you can see the effects your actions have on all of the NPC stats. EDIT EDIT: Moving this to the OP.
ChancellorKremlin Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I'll have to try this later. I'm curious though, how are you checking if the NPC's can afford you? It's not by scanning their inventory, is it? Because otherwise it is no wonder nobody will be able to afford you. That would indeed make base prices meaningless. The idea behind the base price was to compliment the other amazing mechanics, not replace them altogether lol. I haven't looked at DRL in the GECK, but I thought you just had a simple player.additem +65 caps sort of thing + the formula for the mechanics, which would work on all NPC's regardless of who they are. Alternatively, you could add a "negotiation" mechanic where randomly an NPC can refuse your base price maybe. My thoughts weren't for it to "steal the thunder" of the other stats, it was just to safeguard the player actually getting a sensible amount of money. Anyway, I'll give you more feedback once I've tried it.
t3589 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 I'll have to try this later. I'm curious though, how are you checking if the NPC's can afford you? It's not by scanning their inventory, is it? Because otherwise it is no wonder nobody will be able to afford you. That would indeed make base prices meaningless. The idea behind the base price was to compliment the other amazing mechanics, not replace them altogether lol. I haven't looked at DRL in the GECK, but I thought you just had a simple player.additem +65 caps sort of thing + the formula for the mechanics, which would work on all NPC's regardless of who they are. Alternatively, you could add a "negotiation" mechanic where randomly an NPC can refuse your base price maybe. My thoughts weren't for it to "steal the thunder" of the other stats, it was just to safeguard the player actually getting a sensible amount of money. Anyway, I'll give you more feedback once I've tried it. It checks their inventory, but doesn't strictly adhere to amounts. If they have caps, they pay in caps, if they don't have caps but have NCR money, they pay in NCR money, if they don't have NCR money but have legion money, they pay in legion money. If they have none of the above, they pay in booze and drugs. But this is not the problem, as this only applies to 'what' they will pay with, but not 'how much'. The conflict comes when the mod determines 'how much' they are capable of paying. Originally I wanted to do it by class, and I may change it to that later. For right now it is determined by NPC level. Higher level = more capable of affording. But this is neither here nor there. It doesn't matter what I use to determine how much they are capable of paying, when a base price is set, it draws a hard line in the sand that has to be met or exceeded. Which in turn will automatically exclude entire groups of NPCs, unless the base is so ridiculously low that setting it explicitly becomes meaningless towards the goal of matching a historical economy. In other words, one has to cancel the other out to some degree in order to exist. Either a price is etched in stone, or prices are dynamic. If you etch them in stone (base prices), dynamism is diminished to a point where it might as well not even be there, and visa versa. Unless of course if we exclude groups of NPCs beforehand and just say right off the bat that these NPCs will never be able to afford you. Then it would work. For example if I do it by class and say 'NPCs of this class will never be able to afford you based on their class'. I'm probably not explaining it very well. Prices can't really be fixed and flexible at the same time, without one of the two taking such a back seat, that you might as well remove it. The negotiation is already in there. 'Can you afford me', doubles your price if you get a positive response. Keep in mind I'm trying to accomplish some level of complexity by utilizing simplicity. EDIT: The real problem is the stark contrast between the holdings of NPCs and the holdings of the Player. The NPCs are obviously taking part in a different economy than the Player is. ie. If the player were an NPC, the prices I had originally implemented would be right on the money.
Guest Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Oh, hey! someone said gifts and candies maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCwPPFzCCKQ&feature=youtu.be
t3589 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 Oh, hey! someone said gifts and candies maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCwPPFzCCKQ&feature=youtu.be Why did he just hand her a setscaled heart shaped bed? Oh wait!
Guest Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Ahah nouuuu way it's not a bed! http://www.mediafire.com/view/fib4dej0zu4vbek/heart.jpg# EDIT: nou nou, now that I loot at it... it's definetely a scaled bed, you're right!
ChancellorKremlin Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It checks their inventory, but doesn't strictly adhere to amounts. If they have caps, they pay in caps, if they don't have caps but have NCR money, they pay in NCR money, if they don't have NCR money but have legion money, they pay in legion money. If they have none of the above, they pay in booze and drugs. But this is not the problem, as this only applies to 'what' they will pay with, but not 'how much'. The conflict comes when the mod determines 'how much' they are capable of paying. Originally I wanted to do it by class, and I may change it to that later. For right now it is determined by NPC level. Higher level = more capable of affording. But this is neither here nor there. It doesn't matter what I use to determine how much they are capable of paying, when a base price is set, it draws a hard line in the sand that has to be met or exceeded. Which in turn will automatically exclude entire groups of NPCs, unless the base is so ridiculously low that setting it explicitly becomes meaningless towards the goal of matching a historical economy. In other words, one has to cancel the other out to some degree in order to exist. Either a price is etched in stone, or prices are dynamic. If you etch them in stone (base prices), dynamism is diminished to a point where it might as well not even be there, and visa versa. Unless of course if we exclude groups of NPCs beforehand and just say right off the bat that these NPCs will never be able to afford you. Then it would work. For example if I do it by class and say 'NPCs of this class will never be able to afford you based on their class'. I'm probably not explaining it very well. Prices can't really be fixed and flexible at the same time, without one of the two taking such a back seat, that you might as well remove it. The negotiation is already in there. 'Can you afford me', doubles your price if you get a positive response. Keep in mind I'm trying to accomplish some level of complexity by utilizing simplicity. EDIT: The real problem is the stark contrast between the holdings of NPCs and the holdings of the Player. The NPCs are obviously taking part in a different economy than the Player is. ie. If the player were an NPC, the prices I had originally implemented would be right on the money. Ah I see. That's actually really clever. I was wondering why I kept getting paid in beers from the Kings... OK, I'm starting to understand the issue. I think class might be better suited, or at the very least, varying "rates" depending on class, but like you said, it is an imperfect solution. No, I understand perfectly what you mean about NPC's and their money inventory. Ideally, their measley 10 or 15 caps would work like, with 10 I pay rent today, with 2 buy water, and with three I feed myself. Tomorrow, I don't eat, but buy new clothes. The day after I skip on the rent, but buy a prostitute for 10 caps and so on... but stupidly, that's not how it works. The problem is, playing on hardcore really "breaks" an already broken economy. That is one of the reasons I've suggested raising the prices rather dramatically, because once those "expenses" are taken care of, the player is left with very little. Anything under 50 caps per act is symbolic - I can't even buy a carton of cram for that lol. My impetus has been both on setting it to somewhat realistic levels as it has been to actually make the trade feasible in the first place. I'm already struggling now that the stocks of food I brought from GS have run out. I wasn't aware of the negotiation bonus. I'll see if I can think of a way of not making the base price destroy the mechanics so much. I'm sure there's a way both can work together and compliment each other. Maybe getting rid of the base price, but making the contributions brought in by charisma, appeal and experience higher? I don't know now many levels of appeal, sex act experience and prostitute levels there are, so bear with me. Charisma, because it determined beauty, would have the higher pull, say 6 caps per point. If there are 30 levels of appeal, maybe 0.5 per act? Same with oral/vag/anal sex, if there are 30 levels, 0.5 per level. If there are 10 prostitute levels, maybe 10 caps per level. So this character, for a standard lay: 6 Charisma 12 Appeal 10 Vag Experience Level 1 Prostitute gets 6 x 6 + 12 x 0.5 + 10 x 0.5 + 10 = (36 + 6 + 5 + 10) = 57 caps. Now obviously, these are based on random levels, but you can adjust accordingly, so say there are 100 levels of sex act experience or appeal, reduce it to 0.1 and so forth. The idea is more important than the numbers right now, which are just for a rough guess. Charisma has the higher pull because it is equated to beauty - after all, I could still be dressed in rags and be beautiful. The prostitute level doesn't could even be incrementally higher - like starting at 10, moving on to 15, then 20, then 30, etc - with the incremental increase in price maybe being matched by incrementally higher levels of clients needed for the next level, etc. So maybe the base could be scrapped, but the mechanics buffed up a bit. As for the class/level mechanic, I'm not sure about it. If we impose the values needed for a player to survive on the NPC's, then even the most destitute beggar in Freeside would need at least 200 caps to survive every day. So it would be a fair assumption that's what they have at hand, even if their inventories don't reflect that. Given that my example above falls well below that for a "run of the mill" player character, I think it would work, maybe with some additional adjustments. What do you think? I haven't tried the version with the base prices by the way (not yet) but I just don't want you to feel a base price would destroy the subtle and brilliant mechanics you've put in place, so maybe it is better just to get rid of it - I'm just trying to find solutions, so please don't feel I'm trying to impose anything. Feel free to tell me to shut up and eat my cake any time you want lol Oh, and A.J, great animation by the way!
nyaalich Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 2 Things: Just making sure that I don't need to clean save for this new copy. I also contacted someone at the Nexus (the creator of the Cold Deck Gift Store) as that there are perfume bottles and an ACTUAL box of chocolate in the mod. Permission is given on the page for the community to use them so long as they give him credit. Picture http://static1.nexusmods.com/15/mods/130/images/40582-1-1298690330.jpg EDIT: I haven't watched the youtube video, so I hope this has nothing to do with what you did in it (i.e., ignoring you/blowing off you contribution). EDIT EDIT: Watched it. !
t3589 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Posted January 28, 2014 @ CK: I'm going to have to read that a few times before it really sinks in. lol I think I see what you're getting at. I play exclusively in hardcore mode btw. Which doesn't help me see things fluidly from the non hardcore players perspective. Honestly I don't feel like you're doing anything but helping out. It's not as if you're bringing up a non issue. Though I do think we have differing viewpoints concering this issue. Frankly I couldn't care less about how 'realistic' the economy seems. ie. I would never think twice about how much an NPC would need to survive financially. I really just don't care about that. lol At all. What concerns me mainly is, as you have stated 'Will this feature be engaging enough economically speaking, to be more FUN than it is a chore?'. So while we're both trying to address the same core issue, we're just coming at it from different angles I think. I think the way I had it, if the player is highly sexualized it works fine to address that issue. Though being paid 1 cap, I too find that silly. However, the way I had it IS in fact based on some assumption I pulled out of the air as to the frequency of sex for the average player. And if that assumption is too far off then the way I had it will be a chore. I play the game very lightly. I may have sex less than 20 times in an entire playthrough. Sometimes less than a dozen. So I was judging by the popularity of mods that make the entire game all about having sex. I thought to myself things like, 'Well, what if they have sex 100 times?'. Which should make it clear to you where the way I had it originated. lol So all you've done really is exposed the need for more information imo. Perhaps I shouldn't gauge it on your average (porn poser) player who completes or ignores vanilla game missions just so they can get back to the sex. Might be a good thing for a poll. How many times in a play thru do you engage in anal/oral/genital sex? If I had at least some measure of accuracy regarding that question, I could adjust it to make it work. All we can do is keep tinkering with it and as you've said, keep trying to think of solutions. @nyaallich: You should be fine. If I clear the changelog (post right after the OP), that means I personally did a clean save (either out of necessity or out of fear lol). Funny you mention that mod. I went looking for gifts and grabbed that mod to see what was in it. I haven't taken it apart yet though. Looks promising. @AJ: I'm more excited about the kissing animation than the chocolates. However, in either case you rock! I'm not sure you know how many storytelling options you're opening up for modders. Much needed. Much appreciated!
ChancellorKremlin Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 The gist of it is - forget the base, lets just tweak how much caps the mechanics rake in! I think you're onto something regarding the amounts of times a player has sex. A poll would definitely be in order. To give you an idea, the most sexual encounters I've ever had was 57, and that was for Breeder as a Deathclaw queen, where the player is basically bred REPEATEDLY. Other plugins like mSex fort and so on only require about 20 fucks before you're freed, so even if you throw on top of that another two dozen or so encounters, you'd still be woefully under 100 encounters, which might be why I'm seeing little return. Feedback from other players would be invaluable right now. I'll shed some light on my fixation with the economy thing. I like to role-play a lot. My character was born in GS, got tired of the farm life, had a fight with her sisters and ran to Freeside with only a dress, 20 caps and some food and water. Had a relationship, it went bad, got addicted to drugs. Now has no money, food or water, and has to sustain a drug habit. Even scavenging guns/ammo/clothing from the dead thugs, I still get very little income. I'm a level 6 player. I don't even have guns tagged. I'm just pretty, charismatic and down on my luck lol. In this scenario, you can see why MONEY is very important to me EDIT: I don't know why this didn't post, and thank God for content auto-save, even if it only saved half my message. Anyway, the point is - low level, no inventory, early sex starters need to be catered too, otherwise the only return will be for high level 100+ fuck characters. I definitely think we need a poll for this to further fine tune the mechanics. That being done, I can easily envisage this mod being pretty much mandatory for all serious Sexout players. Hell, it already is for me, and I'm happy!
t3589 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 Agreed on all points. I should have something to try out sometime tomorrow. Love the backstory btw.
Guest Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 It was my first attempt in doing an AO, never did one and I mainly wanted to see if I could figure how to do it. I realize AO is for me, just like meshes, A BIG PAIN... but animations are different, I really want one day do more of them because they're so funny! But there are definetely too many things I'd like to do and time is never enough. Like sitting down on the computer and finally trying this Intimacy project because I still didn't have a chance to play NV anymore. By the way, I read people writing about female characters, does it mean it is a plugin only for female characters?
nyaalich Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 It's only working for female characters right now, but it will work for male characters in the future. I think T's just making sure he gets the main functionality down before he applies his tweaks for how the different sexes will work.
t3589 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 It was my first attempt in doing an AO, never did one and I mainly wanted to see if I could figure how to do it. I realize AO is for me, just like meshes, A BIG PAIN... but animations are different, I really want one day do more of them because they're so funny! But there are definetely too many things I'd like to do and time is never enough. Like sitting down on the computer and finally trying this Intimacy project because I still didn't have a chance to play NV anymore. By the way, I read people writing about female characters, does it mean it is a plugin only for female characters? Well I started with female PCs because they have a broader range of accommodation within the current framework. But, come hell or high water, this mod WILL support male PCs. It's just a matter of completing the core functions first. EDIT: What he said. lol
Guest Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 A wonderful choice then, you are great! I often feel the lack of contents for both sexes in mods. Ok now this doesn't concern but I'm playing a mod for Skyrim and it's very wonderful, probably the best quest I ever played, and there's this scene where I'm dreaming about a marriage with a woman and I really appreciated that I could choose among the answers "I like men", I mean maybe there wasn't a check on it but I interpreted as if the modder placed a GetIsSex checking my female character, these "details" are what makes a great mod definetely superb. Anyway. It's better if I stop spamming my feelings across threads which are seriously speaking about constructive ways to do a mod. Sorry... *takes the door and leaves*
t3589 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 Update in the OP. I've tweaked some things regarding pay scale and solicit approaches as a test run. Also I've increased the gap between prostitution levels. Though I'm not sure I should have just yet? I forgot to mention a few conversations back that the prostitution quest levels are not based on the number of clients served, but on the number of clients currently 'held'. Losing clients = Losing levels. I'm not sure how far apart I should set them, as I'm not sure how many NPCs a player is likely to hold as regular customers. I didn't want to make it too high and make leveling up impossible at some point. I think CK you said you got to the top level which means you had at least 48 regular customers. Wow!
nyaalich Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 T: Got the okay for the chocolate and perfume bottle assets from Cold Deck. kibblesticks (author of Cold Deck Gift Shop): "They're mine and you're welcome to them" Those were the only things that seemed DRL worthy (t-shirts and mugs from casinos? not so much). They did have dark lingerie/sleepwear for both male and female that I haven't tried out, but SO has tons of lingerie options. Confession: Don't know how many lingerie/sleepwear options there are for men in SO. Additional actual confession: I did not tell him that it was for a mod on LL. ?
t3589 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 T: Got the okay for the chocolate and perfume bottle assets from Cold Deck. kibblesticks (author of Cold Deck Gift Shop): "They're mine and you're welcome to them" Those were the only things that seemed DRL worthy (t-shirts and mugs from casinos? not so much). They did have dark lingerie/sleepwear for both male and female that I haven't tried out, but SO has tons of lingerie options. Confession: Don't know how many lingerie/sleepwear options there are for men in SO. Kick ass! You beat me to it. Now for a little Oh Day Toilet. lol I got side tracked, but I want to get back to the dance drug thing. Then I'll do gifts. Is the activity end dialogue working for you? I wonder if Charon is set to hired or teammate. Some companions aren't I hear. The options for men really depend on what you're shooting for. If you're going for effeminate, probably so. If you're shooting for masculine, not so much. There are some good underwear options. But really what else is there for men? And if there were, where would you hang it? lol
nyaalich Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I realize that there aren't many options for guys as far as lingerie is concerned (unless you look at Kendo's Gomorrah overhaul for guys and include harnesses and vests). I haven't wanted to comment on activity end just because I added something that's freezing my game that ISN'T SODRL since it happens no matter if I use your test version or the official first post version. I did get the dance option to work for a date, but I didn't get a post-date or night cap end. I just got the SODRL hang out option (since I spent affection/flirts for the day) which indicates to me that the date is over - unless I'm wrong. As shown below, pride said in the NX vars thread that you should be able to use NX vars for dialogue now. I know that you're using tokens to guide some of this stuff, but I don't know if this info might make your life easier. NX can be used in dialogs now. Jaam added some functionality for that a while back. I haven't looked into how to actually use them yet, but there are six NX functions available in the geck dialog condition dropdown.. GetEVFl is one of them.. He may have explained it in the NX release thread. I am too headachey/lazy to wade through GECK scripts right now to see how Charon's added (I say this being fully aware that you're asking me since I'm the one who's clamoring for TTW compatibility ). I'm pretty sure that he's hired (iirc, there are some ishired conditionals). When you say "teammate," are you talking about that as a faction? NV doesn't use isteammate vs. ishired, does it? What impact will this have on your coding/etc.? I can shoot for trying to find out tonight.
t3589 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 Post-date you should always get. Nightcap you won't always get. Yeah I saw that functionality had been added a while back. 'GetPlayerTeammate' Though there are some problems with it I think. I'm going to fiddle with the follow packages (the packages this mod gives) for companions soon is why I asked. You won't have to find out here soon. If what I do works, then we'll know he is. But if he is one of those companions that doesn't cotton to teammate or hired I might have to figure something else out. Really I just need to learn more about companions by using them. Personally I can't stand them following me around, as they always just get in my way or slow me down. I don't mind them so much when they're sandboxing at a player home though. This mod would work better when they're in that state too. Maybe I should disable them when you're out and about?
nyaalich Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Hah. I never sandbox with them. The only annoying thing that's really happened with being out and about is him deciding to catch me the 2 seconds between unlocking a safe and accessing it.
nyaalich Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Thought/observation: Charon seems to try to get my attention or provide dialogue during an activity when I've change my state. I use a sprint mod. So if I go from running to walking or running to sprinting (haven't gone walking to sprinting, : P ) the second I do it, I get a "someone's trying to get you attention." I don't think it's coincidental. I believe the problem (although it's happened on other occasions) is while sitting. Ten versions ago (probably not an exaggeration), I remember sitting, getting the "someone's trying to get your attention" but then no dialogue.
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