Site Rule Changes

[Ashal]

As we have made a number of changes to the site rules lately that people should be made aware of, I would like to point them out here and clarify them for those who do not check the rules.

 

For a complete list of rules, please check http://www.loverslab.com/topic/292-rules/?p=6248

 

Recent additions with further explanation is as follows:

 

 

In an effort to keep the site & community inviting and friendly we do not allow several categories of conversation. This is not intended as censorship or endorsement of any particular view, but rather a move to keep this site neutral and open. The categories of conversation that are not welcome include those discussing politics and religion. Too often these discussions descend into pointless bickering and lead to offending one party or the other (if not both). This sends the wrong message of what this site is all about. There are plenty of forums, blogs and other online outlets available for these types of conversations, this site is not one of them.

 

Lovers Lab is first and foremost a gaming community. As such, we wish to be welcoming and friendly to all genders, orientations, nationalities, religions, and beliefs. Those who are not conducive to that environment will be dealt with in whatever reasonable manner we deem appropriate. What is deemed "political or religious" is up to staff discretion and no others.

 

First off, you may have noticed we removed the politics section of the forum and added the above rule.

 

After much discussion amongst the site staff we felt this an important and much needed change due to the state of unsavory bickering happening in the politics section of the forum. To reiterate what is stated in the rule, we are largely an adult modding forum, there are more appropriate places for you to discuss such topics, we would rather remain seen as neutral to such things and avoid driving off potential members over them.

 

 

 

The report button should only be used for serious offenses that require immediate or quick moderator action such as piracy, attacks on other members, advertising spam, or illegal content. Reporting trivial things such as a thread in the wrong section, duplicate thread, off topic post, double post, deletion requests, or anything else that is considered custodial or forum decorum. These trivial things will fade away on their own, be it through lack of replies and ignored, or an active moderator making the judgement call themselves to clean it up when necessary. Abusing the report button repeatedly with matters deemed trivial will result in action being taken against the abuser.

 

Secondly, the above rule has been added after having some self reflection on our part and having some major reports slip through the cracks due to constant overuse of the report button by various forum members to report matters of a trivial nature; we have had added a rule on proper use of the Report button.

 

While we appreciate the vigilance some people have in reporting things out of place, ultimately it does more harm than good. This is absolutely a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation. The busier our moderation queue gets, the slower we are to respond to them, and the more trivial matters reported, the more likely we are to ignore or respond even slower to a particular reporter. We need to see there are open reports and think "Oh, there is something that requires my attention for the good of the forum." Lately however, we see open reports and think "Bah, probably nothing important, I'm sure another moderator will get to it."

 

This isn't about making things easier for ourselves by cutting back on reported content, it's about making sure when something big comes up, it is taken care of quickly and promptly. Trivial things such as those listed in the rule, misplaced threads, duplicate thread, off topic post, double post, deletion requests, and such, simply don't call for immediate attention. To add to that however, DO NOT take this to mean you should just Private Message us a big list of stuff you think needs to be deleted or moved, unless it is YOUR thread you are requesting be moved/deleted/merged. Many of these things will self moderate, either through the community ignoring it and it fading away to a far off page due to lack of replies, or through a moderator doing forum cleanup on their own accord.

 

 

[Emily]

1.st~ !

[MikeMetal]

I still have to find something reported be it for whatever reasons, granted I'm new, but from my time spent here, the community is far too open minded to even discuss trivial religion or political subjects, let alone resume to bashing for those reasons.

 

Sure, there will always be pirates, grammar nazis, immature people, assholes and whatnot, like any other place on the internet but from my view, this site has the least of them.

[Ark of Truth]

This is my own opinion so if offends and pisses people off I am sorry Now to the opinion!
 

The report button should only be used for serious offenses that require immediate or quick moderator action such as piracy, attacks on other members, advertising spam, or illegal content. Reporting trivial things such as a thread in the wrong section, duplicate thread, off topic post, double post, deletion requests, or anything else that is considered custodial or forum decorum. These trivial things will fade away on their own, be it through lack of replies and ignored, or an active moderator making the judgement call themselves to clean it up when necessary. Abusing the report button repeatedly with matters deemed trivial will result in action being taken against the abuser.

 
Can't say I agree with all that.
 
Allowing threads to stay open and waiting for them to "go away" isn't going to work. If you are going to do that you might as well delete the requests threads then. People hate the requests threads as it is and still create new threads for requests. They will create a new thread, a discussion will start in it and then staff will lock it and link the requests thread or an existing one.
 
If anything this is worse and will most likely stop people from asking again. After all what's the point of coming to a site if you just get ignored when you ask a question? Simple most of us wouldn't ask again and most likely just leave the site for good. You wouldn't go into a shop if the people working there ignored you and were impolite so why go to a site like it?
 
Not only that you say about cleaning up the forum and then you say about letting the junk threads die out and they will hopefully disappear eventually you are also giving out conflicting information. I was don't my site staff before to stop telling users to post in the right section and use the report button instead. Now your telling us to no longer do it...........

Also why are you worried about stuff like this? There are more important things which are needed to be sorted out which greatly effect LoversLab's image like certain types of mods or sicking graphical images from mods which are in the public view.

[Emily]

Reporting people who threw a decomposing pig furry corpse with 6 udders laying on pool of it's own blood image, on emily monstergirl thread is one reason to report offensive behavior.

 

Emily have no idea how on earth she got warning for reporting that post?

if emily shouted obscenity on offending person like that it's all acceptable.

We don't accept decomposing pig furry corpse with 6 udders laying on pool of it's own blood image on any mod thread very often are we?

 

Whether that was a joke or misunderstanding, Some people can be more than immature idiot with poor posting decision.

And there were an idiotic contributor specifically created new account to mess around on the same thread.

it made emily restless and wary.

[GrimReaper]

It's not the threads, it's the users.

[Ashal]

Allowing threads to stay open and waiting for them to "go away" isn't going to work.

Absolutely nowhere do I say that's the plan. Just that trivial matters like that are of little concern and when reported do little more than make moderators progressively slower to react and burn out on their job, which need I remind is 100% voluntary. We won't just wait for them to "go away" we will clean them as they are seen of our own accord as necessary.

 

If you are going to do that you might as well delete the requests threads then. People hate the requests threads as it is and still create new threads for requests. They will create a new thread, a discussion will start in it and then staff will lock it and link the requests thread or an existing one.

They hate it because half of the threads that get locked and pointed there or told by non moderator forum members to post it there, doesn't actually belong there. There is a difference between a centralized mod finding thread and a mod idea thread. Which is why such threads are going to changed and reworded in the near future.

 

If anything this is worse and will most likely stop people from asking again. After all what's the point of coming to a site if you just get ignored when you ask a question? Simple most of us wouldn't ask again and most likely just leave the site for good. You wouldn't go into a shop if the people working there ignored you and were impolite so why go to a site like it?

Your logic makes zero sense here. Overzealous backseat moderating by non moderators being stopped will if anything, lower peoples hesitation of asking a question for fear of negative reaction or being reported, making people more likely to ask questions.

 

Not only that you say about cleaning up the forum and then you say about letting the junk threads die out and they will hopefully disappear eventually you are also giving out conflicting information. I was don't my site staff before to stop telling users to post in the right section and use the report button instead. Now your telling us to no longer do it...........

Policies change and we adapt. Again, nobody is saying we're going to ignored threads that are breaking rules, just that we'll clean them up of our own accord and to keep the moderation queue free of such requests. Backseat moderation and vigilantism by non staff is a major problem of the site, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

 

Also why are you worried about stuff like this? There are more important things which are needed to be sorted out which greatly effect LoversLab's image like certain types of mods or sicking graphical images from mods which are in the public view.

The bigger question is why are you so worried about it. Don't presume to know what's best for the site; I don't even presume to know what's best for it myself and I own it.

 

We don't come by these types of decisions lightly, it's not just me in a private forum cracking my whip at the moderators to make them do my moderation bidding. We discuss, we vote, we look at the big picture of the goings on in the forum, we agree and disagree on issues within the forum and how to handle them. We discussed both the banning of politics and what to do about frivolous reporting at length before taking the actions we've chosen, both of which were unanimously agreed on by staff members before action was taken. Hell making this announcement thread is no exception to that.

 

Bottom line is simple: Overzealous reporting on trivial matters IS a problem, whether you want to agree with it or not. The staff as a whole is able to look at the bigger picture from a side of it normal members cannot, and after looking at that bigger picture and discussing it amongst ourselves, this is the conclusion we came to. Whether or not it was a good decision is yet to be seen and is nobodies call to make. We will observe and we will adapt policy as necessary, sitting around and letting taking no action isn't an option.

[Ashal]

Reporting people who threw a decomposing pig furry corpse with 6 udders laying on pool of it's own blood image, on emily monstergirl thread is one reason to report offensive behavior.

They posted a picture of a monster girl they liked in a thread literally titled "MONSTER-GIRL" a mod thread supposedly about just that, monster girls.

 

Nor was the picture in question nearly as outlandish as you are trying to make it out to be, it certainly wasn't my cup of tea, but nor was there any obvious malice behind their post. It could have just as easily been a monster suggestion they thought to offer you as much as it could've been a troll.

 

Emily have no idea how on earth she got warning for reporting that post?

You responded to their potentially reasonable post by openly attacking them and calling them an asshole and bragging about having reported them. Their post was removed because the OP of the thread (you) specifically requested it. You on the other hand were given a warning because you attacked them, just because somebody submitted the report doesn't make them immune to the rules.

 

 

And there were an idiotic contributor specifically created new account to mess around on the same thread.

it made emily restless and wary.

 

Than report that and keep the insults to yourself. Somebody attacking or harassing another member is the very model of what is considered an appropriate use of the report button.

[DoctaSax]

Allowing threads to stay open and waiting for them to "go away" isn't going to work. If you are going to do that you might as well delete the requests threads then. People hate the requests threads as it is and still create new threads for requests. They will create a new thread, a discussion will start in it and then staff will lock it and link the requests thread or an existing one.

 

If anything this is worse and will most likely stop people from asking again. After all what's the point of coming to a site if you just get ignored when you ask a question? Simple most of us wouldn't ask again and most likely just leave the site for good. You wouldn't go into a shop if the people working there ignored you and were impolite so why go to a site like it?

 

Not only that you say about cleaning up the forum and then you say about letting the junk threads die out and they will hopefully disappear eventually you are also giving out conflicting information. I was don't my site staff before to stop telling users to post in the right section and use the report button instead. Now your telling us to no longer do it...........

 

Also why are you worried about stuff like this? There are more important things which are needed to be sorted out which greatly effect LoversLab's image like certain types of mods or sicking graphical images from mods which are in the public view.

 

 

It's not unheard of for us to close a thread without a report telling us to - that's the 'moderator doing clean-up of his own accord' bit Ashal mentioned. Clean-up, the janitorial bit of the job, is just not as urgent as dealing with abusive behavior & the like. The fact that there's a report gives it urgency, and draws us away from whatever else we're doing when it comes in.

 

There's no reason to call us in whenever somebody doesn't wipe his feet; we'll sweep up often enough & do the necessary grumbling about it. There's also no call for other members to post themselves by the door to enforce the wiping of said feet.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with the existence of the consolidated request threads. They came about in the wake of our initiative to clean up the general skyrim sections of tech & download threads, so they can probably use some rephrasing, but otherwise nothing's really changed about the reason for them. As long as they're in effect we'll continue to point people to them, it's just that not using them is no longer reportable.

[ChancellorKremlin]

For what its worth, I fully endorse these changes 100% of the way. They bring back the focus as to what this site is all about, and without a shred of doubt make the moderating team's job easier. I can vouch for that.

 

My hat is off to Ashal, Greg, Grumpf, BruceWayne and DoctaSax. Keep it up! 

[BruceWayne]

Yay, CK is back!

 

But seriously, like Ashal and DS said, this was not a decision that was made hastily. We have been growing more weary of the problem as time progressed and felt it necessary that something had to be done.

 

 

[Spyder Arachnid]

I'll admit that I'm guilty of things like reporting request threads all the time to have them moved to the official request thread.

 

Sorry for the extra work load, and I'll make sure to stop doing those things (of course I'll still report the important stuff mentioned though).

 

Thanks for the update.

[Password42]

I agree with these changes. As you may or may not have observed, I used to post in the politics section now and then, but I stopped a while back, essentially for the same reasons as what prompted these rule changes.

[Emily]

Yay, CK is back!

 

....  

[Ark of Truth]

Yay, CK is back!

 

WOOOOOOOTTT

 

Let's get the welcome back party started!!!!!!!

[Happysparkles]

Welcome back CK .

You are well missed!

 

Edit: also good to see some of these rule modifications. ( yay for no political topic )

[Lagoon0654]

Not to be a grammar nazi, but

"unless it is YOUR you are requesting"

 

 

lol.

[Ashal]

Not to be a grammar nazi, but

"unless it is YOUR you are requesting"

 

 

lol.

 

 

Meh, it's what get for writing while very sleep deprived. Fixed.

[Jexsam]

I still think the request thread thing is the dumbest idea I've ever heard, but the politics/religion decision is definitely an A+ call.

[Lagoon0654]

Hmm perhaps separate the request threads into specific categories.

 

 

i.g;

Nude female body

Skimpy Armors

Non-Skimpy/Lore friendly Armors

Body Textures for <insert type>

 

 

 

[Jexsam]

Since we're far past the point of discussing the changes or the change being reversed anyway, here's how I'd've handled it.

 

Separate subforums for requests under the specific mod discussion categories. Keeps discussion/WIP category clean, related requests all in one place, same basic premise as "one request thread to rule them all".

 

All REQ threads in the REQ subforum auto-deleted after 60 to 90 days, no questions.

 

If a thread evolves into a WIP, REQ thread is locked/deleted, new WIP thread appears in discussion/WIP page.

 

I get that it's a much larger footprint than one master request thread, but think about it. A single request thread is going to see an constant influx of new requests, meaning old ones get buried, maybe five, ten, twenty pages back. Requests that start to make headway to becoming a WIP get muddled among all the constant new requests, making them hard to follow. And worst of all, requests in a thread like they are now can't be titled or glanced over individually to gauge interest like you can with threads, meaning someone who's interested in taking up an idea for whatever reason would have to look through the whole thread if they wanted to be thorough, but in reality might look over the last ten pages, maybe. A subform would have far fewer pages of thread titles to browse, you'd see more REQs per page than in a thread, and if a REQ starts taking off, new posts will keep it on the front where it can be discussed until it goes WIP.

 

A single thread is less stress on the site and far less maintenance, surely. But it's a terrible way to store and organize ideas for potential pickup by a willing author, which is kind of a shitty thing for a site that encourages people to pick up and do it for themselves to do. Remember, it's not just experienced modders who go occasionally browse requests; newbies do it too, maybe looking for an easy idea to start with.

[gregathit]

While your argument seems solid at a cursory glance, it falls apart under close scrutiny.  A subform topic would get buried almost as quickly as a post.  Who is going to bother looking through an entire subforum to search for something they "might" want to actually make?  The answer is of course, no one.  Folks will just bump the shit out of their request to make sure it stays on page one and you can kiss tracking things goodbye.

 

Bottom line is 95 plus percent of requests NEVER get filled.  It is kinda ridiculous to even waste time with something like this. 

 

Also it becomes a burden on staff\modders as we would then need to patrol a whole other section under each game and purge old requests, lock threads that did become WIPs or were filled.  We don't need more work right now.

 

If you stop and think about it, you stand FAR better chance of getting an armor\clothing\weapon ported or made if you find a modder that is actively doing conversions of something similar and post in his\her thread.

 

Ultimately, if no one volunteers then it falls back to the person making the request to either give up, or learn to make it themselves.  I would rather see more tutorials and helpful walk-through type threads so that folks can learn to take up modding for themselves and NOT cater to folks who want others to do all the work for them. 

[Ark of Truth]

While your argument seems solid at a cursory glance, it falls apart under close scrutiny.  A subform topic would get buried almost as quickly as a post.  Who is going to bother looking through an entire subforum to search for something they "might" want to actually make?  The answer is of course, no one.  Folks will just bump the shit out of their request to make sure it stays on page one and you can kiss tracking things goodbye.

 

Do it so that if they bump it, it gets removed.

[gregathit]

 

While your argument seems solid at a cursory glance, it falls apart under close scrutiny.  A subform topic would get buried almost as quickly as a post.  Who is going to bother looking through an entire subforum to search for something they "might" want to actually make?  The answer is of course, no one.  Folks will just bump the shit out of their request to make sure it stays on page one and you can kiss tracking things goodbye.

 

Do it so that if they bump it, it gets removed.

 

 

Except that would be even more freaking work for moderators.  Seriously, stop and think about what that would entail.   10 full time moderators couldn't keep on top of that.

[RitualClarity]

Ultimately, if no one volunteers then it falls back to the person making the request to either give up, or learn to make it themselves.  I would rather see more tutorials and helpful walk-through type threads so that folks can learn to take up modding for themselves.

I second that.