Old HDT Support Thread.

[Derethevil]

Im still trying to fix that weird jittering with hdt.xml

I dont know if its the new Skyrim install, or the way i installed it the last time.

 

I saw two ways to install those hdt files. One with more copy and paste, and that one in the Manga thread itself.

Well the one where i just copy and pasted most of those string datas i was able to use everything without those jittering effects. (skeleton_female.hkx i guess and hdt.xml)

 

And the new one in the Manga Body thread... well there i get that weird jittering and crushed breast effect when moving etc.
And no im not using any ENB things. I installed it in the last Skyrim, but i disabled it. (Could it have caused a fix?)

Should i change something in a INI file or maybe even create one with that line that fixes that jittering with ENB?

 

Im using:
XPM32 Skeleton.

Bodyslider CB++ (worked the last time before the new Skyrim install)

Latest HDT Physic dll

 

Ive already read about other people experiencing the same problems, but it looks like there is no other way then removing the skeleton_female.hkx file... But as i said, the other install method worked without removing this.

 

Or maybe its just because something got a little update, and that is causing this problem.

 

Maybe someone has a clue about what could fix this, without removing something.

Or maybe someone remembers the other install method so i can try this way again.

Thanks in advance.

Derethevil.

 

 

[ThatGuyJonus]

Im still trying to fix that weird jittering with hdt.xml

I dont know if its the new Skyrim install, or the way i installed it the last time.

 

I saw two ways to install those hdt files. One with more copy and paste, and that one in the Manga thread itself.

Well the one where i just copy and pasted most of those string datas i was able to use everything without those jittering effects. (skeleton_female.hkx i guess and hdt.xml)

 

And the new one in the Manga Body thread... well there i get that weird jittering and crushed breast effect when moving etc.

And no im not using any ENB things. I installed it in the last Skyrim, but i disabled it. (Could it have caused a fix?)

Should i change something in a INI file or maybe even create one with that line that fixes that jittering with ENB?

 

Im using:

XPM32 Skeleton.

Bodyslider CB++ (worked the last time before the new Skyrim install)

Latest HDT Physic dll

 

Ive already read about other people experiencing the same problems, but it looks like there is no other way then removing the skeleton_female.hkx file... But as i said, the other install method worked without removing this.

 

Or maybe its just because something got a little update, and that is causing this problem.

 

Maybe someone has a clue about what could fix this, without removing something.

Or maybe someone remembers the other install method so i can try this way again.

Thanks in advance.

Derethevil.

 

navigate to the meshes\actors\characters\character assets folder and delete the female_skeleton.hkx (NOT THE NIF)

 

[Derethevil]

 

Im still trying to fix that weird jittering with hdt.xml

I dont know if its the new Skyrim install, or the way i installed it the last time.

 

I saw two ways to install those hdt files. One with more copy and paste, and that one in the Manga thread itself.

Well the one where i just copy and pasted most of those string datas i was able to use everything without those jittering effects. (skeleton_female.hkx i guess and hdt.xml)

 

And the new one in the Manga Body thread... well there i get that weird jittering and crushed breast effect when moving etc.

And no im not using any ENB things. I installed it in the last Skyrim, but i disabled it. (Could it have caused a fix?)

Should i change something in a INI file or maybe even create one with that line that fixes that jittering with ENB?

 

Im using:

XPM32 Skeleton.

Bodyslider CB++ (worked the last time before the new Skyrim install)

Latest HDT Physic dll

 

Ive already read about other people experiencing the same problems, but it looks like there is no other way then removing the skeleton_female.hkx file... But as i said, the other install method worked without removing this.

 

Or maybe its just because something got a little update, and that is causing this problem.

 

Maybe someone has a clue about what could fix this, without removing something.

Or maybe someone remembers the other install method so i can try this way again.

Thanks in advance.

Derethevil.

 

navigate to the meshes\actors\characters\character assets folder and delete the female_skeleton.hkx (NOT THE NIF)

 

Well yeah i know that will fix that collision problems, but i causes other problems in animations as far as ive seen it. (crushed breast in sexanimations)

Im trying to rebuild what ive done before reinstalling Skyrim.

 

I may have found what i need.

Does someone has the 11-17 and 11-22 HDT.dll somewhere? I want to try those versions, because im sure these were the last two HDT versions i got before 11-23.

 

Edit:

Gah im getting crazy with this...

Now i just removed skeleton_female.hkx just to see the results and even now the problem occurs. Maybe its because of a custom race? Did anyone tried the Matera Race?

Im about to throw everything away.

Edit2:

Well got it to work now without the skeleton_female.hkx, but as i already mentioned, it breaks the jiggle for animations.

[dTd]

Oh, there it is. Well since I have no clue how to use this I'll leave it to anyone who knows: hdtPhysicsExtensions.dump.zip

 

If it's relevant, skeleton I use is this one.

 

If there's any more information needed, please ask.

 

Edit: Oh I forgot to mention, most of the time the crash always happens when opening a menu (ANY menu: inventory, esc menu, dialogue with npc...)

 

Not sure if anyone answered you but from the link to your skeleton:

Fifth: XPMS the reason for this is that my skeletons only modify males at the moment

 

Which made me ask if you installed standard xpms skeleton before that one like it said? Otherwise ignore this

[ThatGuyJonus]

 

 

Im still trying to fix that weird jittering with hdt.xml

I dont know if its the new Skyrim install, or the way i installed it the last time.

 

I saw two ways to install those hdt files. One with more copy and paste, and that one in the Manga thread itself.

Well the one where i just copy and pasted most of those string datas i was able to use everything without those jittering effects. (skeleton_female.hkx i guess and hdt.xml)

 

And the new one in the Manga Body thread... well there i get that weird jittering and crushed breast effect when moving etc.

And no im not using any ENB things. I installed it in the last Skyrim, but i disabled it. (Could it have caused a fix?)

Should i change something in a INI file or maybe even create one with that line that fixes that jittering with ENB?

 

Im using:

XPM32 Skeleton.

Bodyslider CB++ (worked the last time before the new Skyrim install)

Latest HDT Physic dll

 

Ive already read about other people experiencing the same problems, but it looks like there is no other way then removing the skeleton_female.hkx file... But as i said, the other install method worked without removing this.

 

Or maybe its just because something got a little update, and that is causing this problem.

 

Maybe someone has a clue about what could fix this, without removing something.

Or maybe someone remembers the other install method so i can try this way again.

Thanks in advance.

Derethevil.

 

navigate to the meshes\actors\characters\character assets folder and delete the female_skeleton.hkx (NOT THE NIF)

 

Well yeah i know that will fix that collision problems, but i causes other problems in animations as far as ive seen it. (crushed breast in sexanimations)

Im trying to rebuild what ive done before reinstalling Skyrim.

 

I may have found what i need.

Does someone has the 11-17 and 11-22 HDT.dll somewhere? I want to try those versions, because im sure these were the last two HDT versions i got before 11-23.

 

Edit:

Gah im getting crazy with this...

Now i just removed skeleton_female.hkx just to see the results and even now the problem occurs. Maybe its because of a custom race? Did anyone tried the Matera Race?

Im about to throw everything away.

Edit2:

Well got it to work now without the skeleton_female.hkx, but as i already mentioned, it breaks the jiggle for animations.

 

 

Removing the hkx doesn't break the animations, it just makes the physics handle everything instead of having the boobs animate and then try having the physics engine competing to do its thing, they don't exactly work together very well. I'm not sure what is necessary to trigger the motion but a few things matter in the overall effect.

 

one is the animation itself, the animation will have an effect on the physics based on the acceleration of the area the breasts are attached too.

gravity matters as well, walk your character up stairs and you'll notice the system even more than before.

some animations don't appear to be working but i may be that the animation is too subtle to make the system register it. (or maybe a key-frame issue, pure speculation)

And last but not least the bone weighting on the meshes in use, the weights can make a massive difference in how much effect is is seen.

 

And the last piece of advice is try more animations, you don't have to use any bbp/tbbp animations to make the effect happen and that is what is so great about it.

[tryguy]

Hey, is it just my install, or does anyone else get scrunched-up fingers when using the breast-collision idle?

 

I put it in my game, and everything works fine, but those fingers are terrible to look at. I take the idle out, and fingers return to normal. So... anyone have an alternative idle animation for this? One with normal fingers?

 

(ps it's not too bad, but when you're wearing rings, those just highlight there's something wrong.)

[cornbreadtm]

Hey, is it just my install, or does anyone else get scrunched-up fingers when using the breast-collision idle?

 

I put it in my game, and everything works fine, but those fingers are terrible to look at. I take the idle out, and fingers return to normal. So... anyone have an alternative idle animation for this? One with normal fingers?

 

(ps it's not too bad, but when you're wearing rings, those just highlight there's something wrong.)

 

You need to update the idle. That has been fixed for a while.

 

[tryguy]

Hey thanks for that. I hadn't known there was another version. Tried it out and it works fine. Nice fingers again.

[Shaydow]

Ok for SOME of you getting crushed breasts / saying it doesn't look the same as others videos etc, I've begun to notice that ENB can have a HUGE impact on the effect of HDTPhysicsExtension. Not just WaitBusyRenderer either. I'm including 4 shots, take a look at the differences and the impact.

 

 

ENB effect OFF in game, WaitBusyRenderer=false

 

 

ENB Effect OFF in game, WaitBusyRenderer=true

 

 

ENB effect ON in game, WaitBusyRenderer=false

 

 

ENB Effect ON in game, WaitBusyRenderer=true

 

 

 

Not sure what's causing it. I updated to 0.239 yesterday and started to notice it. I use my own custom ENB, however I noticed it does it with other ENBs and even after rolling back I was still having issues. I've narrowed it down I THINK to a setting in enbseries.ini, and it may be either one of, all of, or a combination of AmbientOcclusion, Adaptation, and Reflection. Try playing around with these and see what happens.

 

P.S : Yes I know some have said they have issues as well and DON'T use ENB, this is just my personal experience I am sharing. If I can narrow down the conflict in ENB, it may help determine what may be causing the issue for those that DON'T use ENB ( an outside mod perhaps, or an .ini setting ).

 

Let me know your findings.

[Groovtama]

My theory on this.

It's not ENB itself it's the lower framerate that produces that effect. Havok processes the updates per frame, more frames, more updates. Less frames, less updates, older position of the physics stuff => This strange effect at the breast.

[Shaydow]

My theory on this.

It's not ENB itself it's the lower framerate that produces that effect. Havok processes the updates per frame, more frames, more updates. Less frames, less updates, older position of the physics stuff => This strange effect at the breast.

 

Actually, at least in my case, not true. I can produce crushed breasts and turn things DOWN, even having a higher FPS. I can also NOT have crushed breasts and turn things UP, resulting in lower FPS. I'm still toying with it trying to figure it out.

 

I also just noticed it's also dependent on what version of what your using. Some HDTPyhicsExtensions don't play nice with certain ENB d3d9.dll's, and vice versa. In my experimenting this morning I even somehow managed to have a combination that made every NPC in game invisible. To double check it wasn't just ENB,  I removed HDTPhysicsExtension.dll and sure enough they reappeared.

 

These 2 do NOT like playing nice with each other.

 

*EDIT* : ok while I was correct and certain settings do cause some glitchy behavior, and different combinations of the two .dll's cause issue with one another,  you also seem to be correct. Lower FPS seem to cause breasts to "cave in " the lower they get, and " perk up " the higher they get. At over 60 FPS I didn't actually like the effect, this may be why some people get breasts stuck in the "up" position, maybe they have very high FPS,  and some get crushed, as maybe their FPS is very low. In my videos my FPS is usually 30, dipping sometimes, and a steady 35 - 37 most times. 35 seems to be " MY " target area for how much I like the effect. 

 

This explains why when yesterday I upgraded to 0239 of enbseries and then started to rework my ENB for it, everything went to shit. The FPS impact from the upgrade was substantial, and not only that, but it actually is WORSE. He said he " Changed blending of various effects to draw them without affecting transparent objects like smoke, fire and volumetric fog. " However, I noticed this broke more then half my outfits in the game, as many have alpha channels this upgrade does NOT play nice with.

 

Think I'm going to be sticking to 0235 for the time being.

[gooboo]

I released the beta of my "realism" effect. I hope now the mails asking for it stop coming.

 

The hair is not included due to some bugs ( with ENB settings ) and permissions. 

 

You can find it @ :

 

http://hdt.monsto.com/forum/index.php?/files/file/10-shaydowshdtphysics/

 

The link doesn't seem to be working for me. Whenever I click the link it says I don't have permission to access the file. Is the link down or am I doing something wrong?

[Derethevil]

Well it looks like i found the real problem.

HDT Hair Physics.

 

If im using the Ponytail with Physics -> Breasts get crushed.

Also the Ponytail is floating arround...

 

But i really think i used both of them with an older HDT version without any problems.

 

I wish i could test this, but i would need the 11-17 HDT original version.

[Shaydow]

12-6 fixes the following scaling: 

hkpPrismaticConstraintData :: Motor 

hkpLinearClearanceConstraintData :: Motor 

hkpDeformableFixedConstraintData 

hkpLinMotorConstraintAtom 

hkpLinFrictionConstraintAtom 

hkpAngFrictionConstraintAtom 

hkpRackAndPinionConstraintAtom 

hkpCogWheelConstraintAtom 

 

HDT just posted this on 3dmgame. Will test it out when I get the chance but the download is available.

[Groovtama]

 

My theory on this.

It's not ENB itself it's the lower framerate that produces that effect. Havok processes the updates per frame, more frames, more updates. Less frames, less updates, older position of the physics stuff => This strange effect at the breast.

 

Actually, at least in my case, not true. I can produce crushed breasts and turn things DOWN, even having a higher FPS. I can also NOT have crushed breasts and turn things UP, resulting in lower FPS. I'm still toying with it trying to figure it out.

 

I also just noticed it's also dependent on what version of what your using. Some HDTPyhicsExtensions don't play nice with certain ENB d3d9.dll's, and vice versa. In my experimenting this morning I even somehow managed to have a combination that made every NPC in game invisible. To double check it wasn't just ENB,  I removed HDTPhysicsExtension.dll and sure enough they reappeared.

 

These 2 do NOT like playing nice with each other.

 

*EDIT* : ok while I was correct and certain settings do cause some glitchy behavior, and different combinations of the two .dll's cause issue with one another,  you also seem to be correct. Lower FPS seem to cause breasts to "cave in " the lower they get, and " perk up " the higher they get. At over 60 FPS I didn't actually like the effect, this may be why some people get breasts stuck in the "up" position, maybe they have very high FPS,  and some get crushed, as maybe their FPS is very low. In my videos my FPS is usually 30, dipping sometimes, and a steady 35 - 37 most times. 35 seems to be " MY " target area for how much I like the effect. 

 

This explains why when yesterday I upgraded to 0239 of enbseries and then started to rework my ENB for it, everything went to shit. The FPS impact from the upgrade was substantial, and not only that, but it actually is WORSE. He said he " Changed blending of various effects to draw them without affecting transparent objects like smoke, fire and volumetric fog. " However, I noticed this broke more then half my outfits in the game, as many have alpha channels this upgrade does NOT play nice with.

 

Think I'm going to be sticking to 0235 for the time being.

 

 

It looks so far by my setup: prerendered frames set to 1, waitforbusyrenderer=false, no skeleton_female.hkx, modified 1st person the joy of perspective skeleton

 

ENB disabled => constant 60 fps

In third person breast didn't crouch together when running, In first person (using the joy of perspective) breast crouch together when running (~3/4 - 1/2 size)

 

ENB enabled => 25-30 fps

In third person breast crouch together when running (~2/3 size), In first person (using the joy of perspective) breast crouch together when running (~1/4 size nearly go inside the character the modified skeleton damp it a little bit, it was worser without the modified skeleton ~1/6 size)

 

The fps theory is the first solution I thought of because that how havok works. Computation per frame.

I will test around with the ENB versions myself, in my ENB Manager I have 0.193 - 0.239 (for earlier I would have to install old nvidia drivers^^). Maybe it's just a new setting that's buggy, I'm guessing the FixPhysic (fixing havok phyiscs at high fps) parameter that was togglable in 0.200-0213 and default enabled from 0.214 and later. Or the computation time needed differes between the versions. Maybe Vsync, possible everything that messes up time between frames.

[Dragonjoe69]

 

I released the beta of my "realism" effect. I hope now the mails asking for it stop coming.

 

The hair is not included due to some bugs ( with ENB settings ) and permissions. 

 

You can find it @ :

 

http://hdt.monsto.com/forum/index.php?/files/file/10-shaydowshdtphysics/

 

The link doesn't seem to be working for me. Whenever I click the link it says I don't have permission to access the file. Is the link down or am I doing something wrong?

 

 

Same happened to me, I had to register an account with the site

 

[ThatGuyJonus]

The thing about framerate affecting the breasts itself is partially true, it has more to do with Vsync. Skyrim's physics engine breaks running above 60 FPS, it desyncs with the rendering engine and causes all kinds of things to happen such as errant sounds, falling through the world flying mammoths and several others.

 

But Vsync will help alot with the squishing breasts issue.

[Groovtama]

@jonusl2d

Yeah but we have here the opposite it also makes bogus when the fps goes under 60 fps (starts around 40-50 fps) (with vsync enabled!), the question is "what is the reason?" "time between frames (lower fps) when ENB enabled" "some setting in ENB" "some feature in ENB versions" "something between ENB and HDT_PE, some sort of conflict" or "vsync on lower fps makes bogus because havok makes no computation on skipped frames (frames that are not ready on vsync times), and it get delayed because of it".

 

Maybe disabling game vsync and using driver vsync (also adaptive vsync) or ENB vsync, frame limiter may be better options.

 

EDIT:What I'm also guessing http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/topic/280917 (link just simplied havok tech talk stuff) time problem with missing interpolation maybe that's why skyrim goes bogus on high and also buggy with HDT_PE on lower fps. I don't know what parts HDT_PE implements itself or uses from the havok physic. So just my random guessing so far. 

[Shaydow]

@jonusl2d

Yeah but we have here the opposite it also makes bogus when the fps goes under 60 fps (starts around 40-50 fps) (with vsync enabled!), the question is "what is the reason?" "time between frames (lower fps) when ENB enabled" "some setting in ENB" "some feature in ENB versions" "something between ENB and HDT_PE, some sort of conflict" or "vsync on lower fps makes bogus because havok makes no computation on skipped frames (frames that are not ready on vsync times), and it get delayed because of it".

 

Maybe disabling game vsync and using driver vsync (also adaptive vsync) or ENB vsync, frame limiter may be better options.

 

EDIT:What I'm also guessing http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/topic/280917 (link just simplied havok tech talk stuff) time problem with missing interpolation maybe that's why skyrim goes bogus on high and also buggy with HDT_PE on lower fps. I don't know what parts HDT_PE implements itself or uses from the havok physic. So just my random guessing so far. 

 

I actually have Vsync disabled in Skyrim and in ENB. I use Nvidia control panel to control it ( adaptive ).

 

Oh and Boris apparently released an update to 0239 the same day I downloaded it that fixed the issues I was talking about with it ( it messing with alphas on things he didn't intend for it to ).

 

And ya, there definitely is some sort of conflict with different versions of ENB and different version of HDTPhysics. I spent a good part of 2 hours today messing around, and I can tell you, different combinations of different ENB's and HDTPhyics have different effects. I even figured out what was causing my new Celestial Knight summons to be invisible when summoned for sometimes up to 2 minutes. HDTPhysics was conflicting with newer ENB releases. I had to roll back to 11 - 8 ( still able to use my custom xml ) to fix it. Has to do with them using Physics "wigs" and the ENB. Also only happens outside, never inside. I'm still trying to figure out what variable is causing that. Using 11 - 8 HDT it never happens, outside or in.

 

It made me start to build a whole new ENB just to make sure I didn't drop to more then 30 FPS so my breasts didn't go all stupid, while still keeping a nice look. So far I'm actually pleased with how it is turning out.

 

So in the end, my original advice from this morning still stands, even more so now then before. If your having problems with HDTPhysics and or Collision, check your graphic settings and mess with them. You would be surprised at how much it influences the effect.

[Monsto Brukes]

Just a reminder . . . 

 

hdt.monsto.com

 

Using the site I built, these myriad discussions can be separated into different threads, making it easier to concentrate on the thing that's important to you without having to filter thru other posts.

 

Just sayin.

[pclp2014]

Just a reminder . . . 

 

hdt.monsto.com

 

Using the site I built, these myriad discussions can be separated into different threads, making it easier to concentrate on the thing that's important to you without having to filter thru other posts.

 

Just sayin.

 

 

Where he's right, he's right ..

 

Look here: http://hdt.monsto.com/forum/

[Killswitchx87x]

Maybe someone can help me or understand this.

 

So anyone knows The Ninghiem race can be install with different body meshes. I normally pic UNPB with BBP. I moved to using Sevenbase body like it a little better but in game after replace the meshes in Ninghiem folder in game the boobs look really fake, like someone clued two soccer balls to her chest, no curve/slope on top of breast.

 

got me curious why breast didn't look like anything in the pictures. So I tried the b-cup one of 7B. Just min ago when I got into game I notice hey it looks like pic then I notice something caused breast to be pulled up and back to the soccer ball look. Anyone had a clue why its doing that?

 

anyone can tell me on post a video here without needing a link then I will do a video so people can understand what I'm meaning better

[tryguy]

Would it be possible to have HDT affect breasts more the further to 100% weight you got? I like a range of boobs, but big jiggle only really makes sense when you've got some mass, which generally is when the girl is over 50%.

 

So, I know this would be pretty cool if possible. Question is, is it? Is it even remotely possible?

[canderes]

The _1 mesh has to have the weight painted higher than the _0. What you are saying makes sense but I don't think I've seen anything like hat yet since the weights are usually just copy pasted. What body did you want to try that on?

[Shaydow]

Would it be possible to have HDT affect breasts more the further to 100% weight you got? I like a range of boobs, but big jiggle only really makes sense when you've got some mass, which generally is when the girl is over 50%.

 

So, I know this would be pretty cool if possible. Question is, is it? Is it even remotely possible?

 

Well none of the armors nor the body I have made use weight scale sliding. I left it out on purpose since it can cause a LOT of problems such as head \ body texture mismatch and head \ body mesh gaps. Rather I decided to gear my mods design toward using the Scaling functionality of RaceMenu by Expired, though I'm pretty sure ECE has the same or similar function. This scaling works by scaling the actual nodes, and not the characters weight, so that you can retain 100 weight for best performance while still scaling the overall size of your bust. I noticed, that at least with the XML I made, that large breasts on the scale had a LOT more OOMPH to them then smaller scales. I believe it is because since your only scaling down the nodes, and not the entire body mass, the smaller distance between nodes may have something to do with the perception of less overall movement. You may want to give this a try.