Follower Slavery Mod (FSM) (20/01/2024)

[Chlodwig]

On 7/30/2022 at 11:09 AM, Bane Master said:

Hi, I am afraid UFO is not supported - sorry

 

Not supported does that mean can't work with your mod or is just not implemented ?

 

Are the follower mods that diffrent that one can work with your mod and another one woN't work?

[Bane Master]

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

So some suggestions for mod hand offs:

Detect for PAHE, HSH and/or AYGAS

If detected offer a MCM config options

For ONLY PAHE detected

Many thanks for responding and taking the time to write this up - as I have mentioned earlier the main aim of FSM is to provide simple way for other mods to Enslave Followers so I feel it is for those mod Authors to decide if they want to use FSM rather than the other way around. 

 

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I'd be surprised if you didn't know how to add dialog

The few lines of dialog in FSM are basically the sum total of my experience - I'm not confident at all with much of the CK, what skills I have are with Papyrus

 

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Here's another enslavement idea. 

I had considered this kind of idea as a Plugin as well, although it would be not be Defeat specific but could potentially

apply in any combat where the Follower is in bleedout and beyond the "protection" of the player   - It's something that I will certainly take a look at.

 

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

 

Is that what you were looking for?

Well - as you can see Yes and No ? but I do appreciate the ideas you have shared and the effort you put into them - Thanks!

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bane Master

[Bane Master]

38 minutes ago, Chlodwig said:

Not supported does that mean can't work

Yes,  sadly that is what it means

 

39 minutes ago, Chlodwig said:

Are the follower mods that diffrent that one can work with your mod and another one woN't work?

Yes - I can develop and compile scripts for FSM with all three supported Follower mods installed (I then test with each follower mod enabled separately), that's not possible with UFO because of the changes it makes to the dialoguefollowerscript

[Bane Master]

5 hours ago, ttpt said:

 

I suspect dialogue with the master never has this break happen, because it's just added as a dialogue option

All the dialogue is provided by the same Quest and running at the same priority, the difference as I understand it is that the Followers dialogue is Blocking. As I've mentioned I'm far from expert on this but I don't understand how this loss of dialogue could happen if everything is working as it should, or why it would work for SE and not for LE.

 

I guess we need to see if other LE (or any) users get the same issue - or if there is a Dialogue Guru out there who can offer an explanation.

 

Did the change in mod detection method help you?

[EinarrTheRed]

Will respond to your reply shortly, but first... my play test results.

 

Testing evnironment:

Skyrim LE

Only using SexLab LE
Do not have Toys, Devious Devices, SD+ or other supported mods installed.
I do not currently have Defeat active (its installed, just not active in my load order right now)
I do not currently have EC+ active (same as above)
I do not currently have MME active (same as above)

I DO have PAHE, HSH and AYGAS installed and active

Nothing else in my load order that has any significant script weight.

 

Installation
    Made a save point
    Manually installed FSM 1.01
    Loaded the game, and immediately got a notification that FSM Menus had been installed.
    Opened MCM, closed it (to trigger a MCM update)
    Waited about 15 sec and got a notification 1 new MCM had been added
    FSM MCM was now there, option to install
    Begin Install, closed menus and waited
    Got notification FSM had been installed
    Checked, menus were there, configured settings
    Made a quick save, reloaded without shutting down (helps SEQ and ensures Dialogs work)

 

1st Test
    Added Lydia as a follower via EFF using dialog and EFF Radial Menus
    Checked MCM and selected Lydia to be enslaved
    Lydia ran out of Breezehome, got onscreen notification Lydia had been enslaved
    Checked MCM for location, she was enslaved by Bandit Chief at Fort Felhammer
    Went there, killed exterior bandits
    Cast Muffle and entered then went invisible to see what would happen.
    Bandit Chief immediately attacked Lydia, knocked her down into bleed out
    She popped right back up and he sat down she stood next to him.
    After about 2 min observing a sex scene triggered using SexLab (SexLab was correctly detected, I do not have Toys installed)
    Afterwards Lydia went for a lie down on a nearby bed, but immediately got back up and went back to the orc Bandit Chief
    She did this again a minute later and this time I was able to try talking to her without being seen or heard.  She only said "Please... Help me!"
    I whammied the Bandit Chief with a paralysis spell, tried talking to Lydia again, same reaction as above.  Tried talking to the Bandit Chief while paralyzed, no dialog options.
    Killed bandit chief, turned around Lydia was standing there in full gear.  She was also an EFF follower again.
    Lydia had no dialog afterwards about the experience.
    First test seems very successful.

 

2nd Test
    Lydia again, we're still at Fort Felhammer.
    I changed the MCM config to only allow male owners, no bandits, vampires or warlocks this time.
    Selected Lydia for enslavement again.
    Waited and she vanished, got notification she had been enslaved.
    Her owner was Bolund at Grey Pine Luxuries in Falkreath, I headed there.
    I arrive in Falkreath about 1 PM, head to the sawmill.  Lydia is there next to Bolund, she's naked.
    Talked to Lydia, she tells me to go away that if she is seen talking to me she'll be punished.
    I talk to her twice more right in front of Bolund to see if anything happens, she gives the same line, Bolund does not react.
    Next I talked to Bolund, he had dialog option "About your slave..."  He says "What do you want"  I say "I'd like to buy her"  He says something about her being more trouble than she's worth.  My next two dialog options were to buy her for 6,000 or not pay that.  I choose not pay that first time round.  If I talk to him again, he has the same dialog.
    Tried talking to Lydia again, first time she had the same line about go away again.  Tried again, this time she talked to me and some dialog that led to three options, for her to tell Bolund I'd pay the 6k, 2nd I couldn't afford to spend that much, 3rd, we're getting out of here.  I chose the 2nd and she begged me not to leave her there.  I waited and a sex scene triggered, aggressive sex animation.  Afterwards Lydia popped right back up and continued following Bolund.
    I tried waiting around to see if Bolund would get far enough away I could talk to Lydia alone, but that opportunity never came.  A couple of sex scenes happened while I waited, so repeated stuff there works, not all of them were agressive animations.
    Next tried talking to Lydia again, again got the Go away, if she displeases him she'll be punished line.  Tried again talked to me this time again got the dialog about freeing her.  This time I chose pay the money.  She was grateful and said she'd give him the money right way.  Money was deducted, Lydia immediately got her gear back and she was my follower under EFF management again, she never actually talked to Bolund.  Neither had any dialog regarding what happened afterwards
    Second test seems entirely successful.

 

3rd Test Max Load
    For this test I wanted to load up the number of enslaved followers and see how it handled that.  I went to the Rising Falls Inn (part of my Whiterun mod, its an inn just outside Whiterun).  Here I have used MHIYH to assign six of Toki's follower gals to live there.  I went inside and added four as followers
    First bug found - I added four followers, but only the last one I added showed up in the list of followers that could be sent to enslavement.  The other 3 were not listed in the MCM drop down menu.
    I tried leaving and re-entering the inn with all four gals following to see if that triggered an update, checked MCM again and still only Ylenia was listed.  I sent Ylenia for enslavement got the onscreen notification a follower had left my service and she ran out of the inn, then the onscreen notification she'd been enslaved.
    Checked the MCM again, the other three gals still weren't listed even though they were following.  So I tried talking to each one, radial menu, select talk, then just picked any random dialog line.  Did that with all three, checked MCM again and surprise, all three gals are now listed as followers who could be enslaved.
    Sent all three out to be enslaved, one at a time waiting for the process to complete each time before sending the next girl.
    Added the last two, talked to each, went to MCM both were listed and sent them to be enslaved, so now I have a total of six gals enslaved somewhere (why 4 and then 2, I forgot I had max followers in EFF set to 4 and was too lazy to change it).
    Bug Found - Ylenia (the first of the six I sent to be enslaved) was owned by Umid Snow Shod in Mistveil Keep (the Jarl's housecarl).  I got there to find her dressed in rags and following Unmid.  When I talked to Ylenia, she had no slave dialog but did have the option to tell her to follow me again.  Unmid had no dialog regarding owning a slave.  She continued to follow him but after waiting past the max time I'd set, no sex scenes triggered either, it seems the outfit change and follow behavior were working but nothing else.
    So next I last of the six I'd sent to be enslaved in case the order had anything to do with it.  That was Capri who was now owned by Revyn Sadri in Windhelm so I headed there.  Its just after 1 AM when I arrive so his shop is closed, good chance for another experiment, I break in.  Capri is inside naked and standing near Revyn who is asleep in bed.  I'm invisible so I watch for a bit first to see if anything happens.  After more than an hour game time nothing happened so I tried talking to Capri and she told me "You're not supposed to be in here" twice so I left and waited until morning.  When I went back in neither Capri nor Revyn had any slave related dialog, so it seems this pair are bugged as well.
    Checked one more pair, this time Enthir at the College.  The follower enslaved to him was also following him around as he went through his daily routine at the college (ICOW version), but neither had any slave dialog and the follower had the "follow me" dialog options as if she were just a regular follower.
    Third test seems a failure.  The mod seems to work and be stable with a single follower enslaved but something is going wrong with multiple followers, hopefully in all that are some clues as to what might have gone wrong.

 

At this point I shut down to desktop and disabled the mod until you can update at which point I'll be happy to test it again.  I did not have a chance to check for rumors about where an enslaved follower might be.

 

However, other than these bugs, the mod seems otherwise pretty stable and compatible with LE.

 

 

Further suggestions (mostly dialog and mostly dealing with the mod as is):

 

When buying back a slave the dialog currently goes something like...

        Player - About that slave...
        Owner - What do you want?

 

Add some variation here, could just be random lines or it could be stuff conditioned on the Owner's attitude (if you want to delve into that) or other mods being detected.  Examples:

                         Cute isn't she.
                         You mean my new pet?
                         She's a stupid whore.
                         She'll make a great fuck toy once she's trained.
                         Stupid dog / Good dog
                         Oh the new cow?
                         You want a turn at her too?
                         Seems like she's a popular slut

Some of these variations could be conditional, the cow comment might only happen if MME is running and then the slave might also have been turned into a milk maked and given a random MME level and breast increases.  The rest could depend on how the owner feels about their new slave and how they treat them, whether the treat them as a person, an animal or just an object.

 

        Player - I'd like to buy her.
        Owner - She's more trouble than she's worth, etc.   Add the sale price in here if possible, as it stands it sounds like the player is setting the price.  See below regarding pricing.  Might also allow a speak check to negotiate the price.

Variations could here again depend on the owners attitude, maybe they really like owning their new slave.  If they're happy with their slave, the price gets boosted as well, they're less inclined to sell her.  I can come up with dialog once I have an idea how you want to categorize any variant attitudes of the owner.  Could be Thrilled, Satsified, Unsure, Displeased or Disgusted.  So a Disgusted owner is more motivated to sell at a lower price (discount) but also more likely to punish, a Thrilled owner is less willing to sell and will ask more, punishes less but wants sex more.  Creates some variety in behavior.

 

Pricing - 2500 to 10,000 may be a lot for some players, in most of my games its chump change.  I could drop 100,000 without breaking a sweat (its just too easy to get rich... I come across this mod that makes Alchemy and Mining riskier by some other guy... that might help with this ? But I also got to thinking that just ramping up the potential cost isn't enough, what's needed is a way to calculate the value of the slave, but how?  Well how about how Musje did it in HSH and AYGAS, value is based on level, health, stamina and magicka.  You could say base price is H+S+M for base value and then multiply that by the slave's level.  So a low level follower isn't worth much (at 1st level a follower would be 50+50+50 x1= 150 septims) but a high level 80 follower might go for over 100,000 septims.  Their gear could be calculated as well.  Lydia at first is wearing steel armor, maybe 1,000 septims in all, but Lydia in my current game is wearing heavily enchanted Dragonplate, carrying Dawnbreaker and Spellbreaker (both highly tempered) that'd come to another 100k or so extra for her gear... or you could opt not to buy her gear back or just buy her gear and buy the slave later.  Dragonborn might be on a budget.  My point is the calculation tends to add value as the game progresses and the player has more money.  You could also add a slider that cuts that cost by 0.1 to 1.0 to 2.0 cost, meaning a player could make the cost to buy back a slave and gear anywhere from 10% of that base number to 200% that... depending on their play style and the challenge they want.

 

If you give the money to the follower to give to their owner, have that play out as animations and a little dialog.  Maybe with a chance the owner wants one last fuck or beating before they let the slave go.  So short scene, the follower goes to their owner, animation of handing them the money, some brief dialog, you get the idea.

 

I'd suggested some factions to track how the follower feels about being a slave.  If they're used for sex and they are not happy about it, consider adding a "rape timer" and animation like PAHE has afterwards for immersion.  On the other hand if the follower has gone slut slave, they might be into it, even do a little but wiggle animation after sex or something.  Nothing major, again, just some lil bits for immersion and role play.

 

If there's talk of the slave being punished, there should be punishment scenes.  Whippings or the like.  If Devious Devices is installed (and I'm not real familiar with it, haven't used it in a couple years) the owner could add a new device or do something with that.

 

After buying the slave back, the follower should say thank you and act grateful.  Could just be a few lines of dialog, forced greeting and they thank you for saving them... or (again depending if you want to mess with follower having various attitudes about being enslaved) maybe they're grateful even if they'll miss their collar.  You get the idea.  If you go with the variations on slave attitude, I'll be happy to write all the dialog you might want.

 

If you use my former slave and former owner faction idea, maybe if they bump into their former owner there's a chance for a scene to play out, either a angry one or maybe... something else.

 

Some dialog options of the owner saying things to or about the slave while they own them, are about to use them or punish them, or making them do things.  I can suggest stuff depending how much you want to go into this, I'm thinking just short events that trigger randomly other than just SexLab sex scenes, and even those could be spruced up with a bit of dialog before and/or after.

 

Potential Owners
Suggest adding orc camps to the list.  The slave is owned by the chief, but the chief has little need for a sex slave since they already have multiple wives.  The other males aren't allowed wives, but a slave isn't a wife, so the slave is assigned to relieving "tension" in the camp by servicing the male orcs.  That may just be sex, but some of them might have more sadistic ideas.

 

Some owners might be friends with the Player (the player having done favors for them).  Could be fun to add some variation there.  This could include some awkward dialog where they didn't realize this was a friend of yours... of course they'll free them... but... they could use some compensation, they paid a lot for this slave... I mean your friend... so... how about... (discounted price).  If the player refuses, they could demand the slave be set free but this then reduces their relationship with their friend... you aren't friends anymore.  A friend might agree to treat the slave well while you raise the funds to buy their freedom, that gives you a (10) day grace period in which the slave won't be beaten or whored out and probably won't get fucked too much.  If you wait too long though, deal is off and you're also back to full price.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Many thanks for responding and taking the time to write this up - as I have mentioned earlier the main aim of FSM is to provide simple way for other mods to Enslave Followers so I feel it is for those mod Authors to decide if they want to use FSM rather than the other way around. 

You're very welcome.  I understand, will try to focus on ideas on your framework concept then.  Also hope maybe Musje comes back and updates some of this, would be very nice.

 

15 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

The few lines of dialog in FSM are basically the sum total of my experience - I'm not confident at all with much of the CK, what skills I have are with Papyrus

I'll be happy to help in any way I can.  I can build locations quite well and I can write reams and reams of dialog without a lot of effort (gift of gab you see, perk of being Irish ? )  @Blackbird Wanderer is quite adept at adding cute animations to dialog.   Anyway, if there's something I can do, just ask.

 

17 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

I had considered this kind of idea as a Plugin as well, although it would be not be Defeat specific but could potentially

apply in any combat where the Follower is in bleedout and beyond the "protection" of the player   - It's something that I will certainly take a look at.

Sounds good to me.  I think you can detect if they are out of LOS, but not sure, that would be one way.  Other is just a radius / distance check, either would work.  Its the kind of thing I would love to have because Lydia or Illia (two of my personal favorites) are constantly running off too far and that puts them at risk, I'd like for that risk to mean something.  It would add a welcome complication and challenge to my play style.  As for who enslaves them, I'd suggest keeping it the same faction if its bandits, warlocks, falmer, and things like that.  If you're fighting a dragon, then it could be random... Lydia got knocked out during your battle with a dragon, when the fight was over you couldn't find her but you did find a empty wine bottle (bandits grabbed her) or a piece of chaurus chittin (chaurus / falmer grabbed her)... you get the idea, gives the player a clue as to where to start looking.

 

22 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Well - as you can see Yes and No ? but I do appreciate the ideas you have shared and the effort you pout into them - Thanks!

You're very welcome, happy to help.

 

I do have an idea for a mod that might go well as a companion piece to this and offer some options for enslavement if you're interested.  I'd have to collect my notes, it was an idea for a mod I had about 4 years ago and never had time or ability to do anything with.  Here's a brief synopsis of the concept though:

Spoiler

Follower Adventures

 

Followers have lives beyond just following the Dragonborn around, when not doing that they sometimes do other stuff.  This mod concept is about that very thing.  Its main intent is to add some color and roleplaying to the game for followers, giving them more of an independent life as well as adding some unexpected surprises.

 

The main concept is this, if a follower is left unvisited for more than a week, there is a chance they go have themselves and adventure.  "Adventure" is a loosely used term for "they got find something to do".  Maybe they get into a bar room brawl, get drunk, go on a bandit raid with some guards, went sight seeing somewhere, etc.  The outcome is random but can be weighted according to various factors (giving your follower good gear, healing potions, helps improve their chances in most cases).  If it goes well, the next time you see them they have some extra dialog and short little story to tell you about the great time they had doing... whatever it was... they went to High Hrothgar, they killed some trolls, etc.  They might even have kept a little trophy or something for you the Player, shame you weren't there to share in the glory!  Or maybe it didn't go so well, sort of a draw result.  They might have been injured (temporary debuff until they heal).  Worst case scenario is a disaster... they went on and adventure exploring a dungeon and never came back... just vanished.. or they got involved in a bar room brawl, someone pulled a knife and someone died and now they're sitting in jail with a slavery sentence you can try to get them out of.  Maybe they got some gambling debts, or they got addicted to skooma...

 

I've worked up a list of potential events and had begun writing out dialog and stories, sorting the logic and so forth in a disorganized form.  It has been languishing in my Idea Folder for years until I saw FSM and thought, Hey, this would be a perfect hand off to enslavement mod.  So there you are, interested?  I can't build the framework I'm shite with Papyrus still and not very good at quest making yet.  But I can write out all the dialog, how the events would be structued, flow chart the logic if need be (I actually know flow charting quite well).  This would give people not doing player slavery a mod to see followers potentially enslaved and in need of rescue and further adventures result.

 

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Bane Master said:

or why it would work for SE and not for LE.

 

I guess we need to see if other LE (or any) users get the same issue - or if there is a Dialogue Guru out there who can offer an explanation.

 

Done lots of Dialogue, but not a guru yet. I'd say there is zero difference between LE and SE. There's lot of silly quirks (aka. Skyrim itself doing dumb shit) but they all mis-behave the same in LE and SE, at least I've never encountered a difference, and all my mods get tested for both LE and SE so I'd know.

[Blackbird Wanderer]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

@Blackbird Wanderer is quite adept at adding cute animations to dialog.

@Bane Master Happy to help and share the hard won knowledge; just let me know.  I think I've got a pretty good handle on all the multifaceted aspects and disparate processes to dialogue with animations.

[Blackbird Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Bane Master said:

All the dialogue is provided by the same Quest and running at the same priority, the difference as I understand it is that the Followers dialogue is Blocking. As I've mentioned I'm far from expert on this but I don't understand how this loss of dialogue could happen if everything is working as it should, or why it would work for SE and not for LE.

My experience has been that things built in LE work, and work identically concerning dialogue, when converted to SE.  I do this quite regularly with SBC, and there's lots of dialogue.

[Bane Master]

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

my play test results.

Many thanks for the comprehensive testing in LE

 

I'll leave the first two tests as they seemed to work as I would expect

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

3rd Test Max Load

 

 

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

First bug found

 

FSM detects your followers the first time you enter a dialog with them - so, with EFF as you discovered if you just recruit using the custom menus they won't be recognised.  Once you open a dialog with them they will be available to FSM. Each follower only needs to be spoken to once via dialog to register them to FSM. This is working as  intended.

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

 Bug Found - Ylenia

I can't really comment on this and the rest of this test as I can't reproduce it - a script log of events during the 3rd test would useful to see if there are any coding issues.

 

Other than that all I can say is I routinely test with 3 followers enslaved simultaneously, released and enslaved again multiple times with no issues.

The main difference in your test other than using  LE is that your followers are custom built and have been assigned to MHIYH. If you can ever find the time to test again it would be interesting to see what your results are with multiple vanilla followers and hirelings. 

 

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Add some variation here,

That should be achievable even for my dialogue skills 

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I come across this mod that makes Alchemy and Mining riskier by some other guy.

Actually I am that other guy! ? Failure Mode Effects Analysis in Skyrim (FMEA)

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Pricing - 2500 to 10,000 may be a lot for some players, in most of my games its chump change.

Using some kind of pricing model by gear and Stats is a nice idea - so that's going on the list!

 

 

A lot of your ideas to make the experience more (brace yourself) 'immersive' are really nice and the sort of things I'd include if I could, it's just I lack the skillset to make them happen. That being said I have just read @Blackbird Wanderer's reply so maybe there is hope with the two you involved and many thanks for the offer!  Need to sort out why you are having issues in LE first though, particularly as both @VirginMarie and @Blackbird Wanderer seem to think there should be no difference to SE. 

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I do have an idea for a mod

 

Somebody linked to this: Follower Goes on a Trip a page back in the thread, you might find it interesting as it shares some themes with your idea. If you did want to go ahead, I know a half way decent(ish!) papyrus coder who could help.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bane Master

[Bane Master]

48 minutes ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

@Bane Master Happy to help and share the hard won knowledge; just let me know.  I think I've got a pretty good handle on all the multifaceted aspects and disparate processes to dialogue with animations.

Many thanks, and much appreciated - I may well be in touch once I start looking at some of these ideas.

[ttpt]

2 hours ago, Bane Master said:

All the dialogue is provided by the same Quest and running at the same priority, the difference as I understand it is that the Followers dialogue is Blocking. As I've mentioned I'm far from expert on this but I don't understand how this loss of dialogue could happen if everything is working as it should, or why it would work for SE and not for LE.

 

I guess we need to see if other LE (or any) users get the same issue - or if there is a Dialogue Guru out there who can offer an explanation.

 

Did the change in mod detection method help you?

 

The change is mod detection absolutely works, sexlab is detected properly and scenes are able to work so that's great.

 

And yeah, it's the blocking part that seemingly breaks, since I start getting the normal follower dialogue with all the options that entails. Like it doesn't seem to be an alias dropping since the mod still lists the follower as enslaved in the MCM menu with all the information about their master and their location, freeing them from the menu also still works. So yeah, it's just a dialogue loss situation only.

 

Until another LE user shows up and has the same problem, I think it's safe to assume that a mod in my load order is probably responsible, I'll try a new game at some points with only the bare essentials for the mod to work as see if the problem persists.

 

But yeah, don't fret too much about it for now, the mod is great and I am always a big fan of any mod that affects followers, since I mostly treat my skyrim gameplay as a party system.

[ttpt]

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

    Bug Found - Ylenia (the first of the six I sent to be enslaved) was owned by Umid Snow Shod in Mistveil Keep (the Jarl's housecarl).  I got there to find her dressed in rags and following Unmid.  When I talked to Ylenia, she had no slave dialog but did have the option to tell her to follow me again.  Unmid had no dialog regarding owning a slave.  She continued to follow him but after waiting past the max time I'd set, no sex scenes triggered either, it seems the outfit change and follow behavior were working but nothing else.
    So next I last of the six I'd sent to be enslaved in case the order had anything to do with it.  That was Capri who was now owned by Revyn Sadri in Windhelm so I headed there.  Its just after 1 AM when I arrive so his shop is closed, good chance for another experiment, I break in.  Capri is inside naked and standing near Revyn who is asleep in bed.  I'm invisible so I watch for a bit first to see if anything happens.  After more than an hour game time nothing happened so I tried talking to Capri and she told me "You're not supposed to be in here" twice so I left and waited until morning.  When I went back in neither Capri nor Revyn had any slave related dialog, so it seems this pair are bugged as well.
    Checked one more pair, this time Enthir at the College.  The follower enslaved to him was also following him around as he went through his daily routine at the college (ICOW version), but neither had any slave dialog and the follower had the "follow me" dialog options as if she were just a regular follower.
    Third test seems a failure.  The mod seems to work and be stable with a single follower enslaved but something is going wrong with multiple followers, hopefully in all that are some clues as to what might have gone wrong.

 

Or I guess we do have another LE user experiencing the same thing, the dialogue break can also just happen with one follower enslaved, you probably just didn't talk to the first follower persistently enough for it to happens, sometimes it happens after the first time you get the option to buy her and sometimes it takes longer, but if you talk to them enough it seemingly breaks like that.

 

It's still possible to release them even if the dialogue breaks, so if you want to be honorable about it you can use the MCM to release and then deduct your gold manually if you still remember the amount they were asking.

[EinarrTheRed]

15 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Other than that all I can say is I routinely test with 3 followers enslaved simultaneously, released and enslaved again multiple times with no issues.

The main difference in your test other than using  LE is that your followers are custom built and have been assigned to MHIYH. If you can ever find the time to test again it would be interesting to see what your results are with multiple vanilla followers and hirelings. 

I'll set aside some time to do just that.

 

15 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Actually I am that other guy! ?

I know ?  Its on my list of mods to try, I only recently came across it but it looks like the sort of thing that in many ways fits exactly with my play style.  Alchemy and crafting are too easy, so something that just slows that down a bit will be good.  I may turn off some of the more nefarious magical effects because I like a lore friendly and generally almost low fantasy game.  But yeah, looking forward to trying it out.

 

21 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

A lot of your ideas to make the experience more (brace yourself) 'immersive' are really nice and the sort of things I'd include if I could, it's just I lack the skillset to make them happen. That being said I have just read @Blackbird Wanderer's reply so maybe there is hope with the two you involved and many thanks for the offer!

The cavalry have arrived.  Soon as I get a chance I'm going to look at the dialog structure you have now so I understand the flow and logic of it.  Then I can write generic variations (stuff that should fit regardless) of things just to spice it up a bit.  That shouldn't take long at all (I might even try inserting it, I need more practice with dialog myself anyway).  Then we can consider other options like dialog and variations specific if MME is detected or dialog specific to a particular attitude of the owner or slave.  Take it a step at a time.

 

23 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Need to sort out why you are having issues in LE first though, particularly as both @VirginMarie and @Blackbird Wanderer seem to think there should be no difference to SE. 

As you noted it could be something odd about Toki's followers though looking at them I don't see anything odd about them.  So that would mean maybe a potential conflict with MHIYH... maybe... the thing is the main thing it does is assign behavior packages as to where the follower thinks is home and clearly your mod is overriding that.  But could be something else within it we just don't understand yet.  I need to round up several more vanilla female followers first, right now I think the only ones I have access to are Lydia and Brelyna.  But I can get Jordis, Iona and Uthgerd the Unbroken pretty quick, that will give me five to work with that are not in MHYIH for a good comparison test.  Just need to use a process of elimination to narrow things down.  That done I'll get that papyrus log and annotate it with what I was doing at particular time stamps to help line up in game actions with what the log is saying for better comparison.

 

I may be able to get this done this evening before I go to bed, depends on how fast I get this bandit camp I'm working on finished up (cause if I don't Blackbird may have ME enslaved LOL)

 

30 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Somebody linked to this: Follower Goes on a Trip a page back in the thread, you might find it interesting as it shares some themes with your idea. If you did want to go ahead, I know a half way decent(ish!) papyrus coder who could help.

Took a quick peek, had not heard of it before and it does look interesting will give it a quick try in a bit, but yeah it bears some similarity (narrower in focus but it also actually sends them on the quest where as I was just going to do a quick success / fail check and run some dialog about it).   As for the mod idea, I'm saying I'd hand it over to you, if you can build the framework I'll write the dialog and stories and stuff, but you'd own it.  Plus with you owning it you could set it to work with FSM natively and maintain that far better than I ever could.  But one thing at a time, I got some more testing to do here in a bit.

 

[Bane Master]

2 minutes ago, ttpt said:

something is going wrong with multiple followers

For my own peace of mind I just re-ran my tests with 6 standard followers/hirelings: Iona, Lydia, Jenassa, Jordis, Marcurio and Rayya

 

Everything worked as expected.

 

Thus far nobody has raised this as an issue other than the two of you testing in LE - so I think your idea of testing in a  minimal new game (using built-in followers) is a really good one, if the same problem occurs we know there is an LE specific issue, if not then it is likely a mod incompatibility.

[EinarrTheRed]

6 minutes ago, ttpt said:

 

Or I guess we do have another LE user experiencing the same thing, the dialogue break can also just happen with one follower enslaved, you probably just didn't talk to the first follower persistently enough for it to happens, sometimes it happens after the first time you get the option to buy her and sometimes it takes longer, but if you talk to them enough it seemingly breaks like that.

It wasn't that, in my case in Test 3 they had no slave dialog at all.  When I approached either the slave or the owner, they just had vanilla dialogs from first contact onward.  But, the slaves were still using the follow behavior package so like you said above, it doesn't seem like it dropped the alias it just lost the condition that gives them the dialog or else something is causing it to be overriden.  Could be a quest priority maybe?  Dunno, need to test more.

 

Question, were you using vanilla followers or custom ones, in my test I used 3 of Toki's custom gals.    2nd Question, are you by chance using MHIYH and were any of the broken slaves previously under its management?  Asking cause I'm looking to see if we can eliminate potential causes of other things.

 

6 minutes ago, ttpt said:

 

It's still possible to release them even if the dialogue breaks, so if you want to be honorable about it you can use the MCM to release and then deduct your gold manually if you still remember the amount they were asking.

I could have, you're right it did still have the MCM option to free them, but since this was just a test and once I was finished I was going back to my save point... its like it all never happened.   I'll be testing again soon as I can to see if I can help zero in on the problem.  B

[ttpt]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

It wasn't that, in my case in Test 3 they had no slave dialog at all.  When I approached either the slave or the owner, they just had vanilla dialogs from first contact onward.  But, the slaves were still using the follow behavior package so like you said above, it doesn't seem like it dropped the alias it just lost the condition that gives them the dialog or else something is causing it to be overriden.  Could be a quest priority maybe?  Dunno, need to test more.

 

Question, were you using vanilla followers or custom ones, in my test I used 3 of Toki's custom gals.    2nd Question, are you by chance using MHIYH and were any of the broken slaves previously under its management?  Asking cause I'm looking to see if we can eliminate potential causes of other things.

 

yeah, I'm probably not explaining myself well enough, but what you're describing is what happens when the dialogue breaks, you get all the vanilla follower dialogue instead of the added blocking dialogue about asking for a price or running away, or the chatter about getting punished.

 

The master also loses the "about your slave" dialogue from then on too.

 

Using survival's debug function to see what AI packages they're using, it's using the follower enslaved packages from FSM, so they will follow the master correctly and everything.

 

I am using custom followers with EFF, but also I did test it out with Lydia and EFF, after talking to her a bunch and her complaining about getting punished and using TAB a few times to back out of the dialogue, eventually the blocking dialogue disappears and you can even tell her to follow you using the regular follower dialogue system, I forget if doing so makes her retake the EFF AI package though, i should check. Using the MCM to see the status of slaves still marks her as enslaved correctly even if the dialogue is gone though.

 

As far MHIYH is concerned, I had to look it up and that's My home is your home, which I'm not using so we can rule that one out.

 

I do use SkyrimSouls - Unpaused Game Menus(SKSE Plugin), which does do some funny things with the wheel menu on EFF followers, but since FSM kind of releases them as followers from EFF, i didn't think much of it, I'll try without it at some point.

 

Still, since we're both using LE and having this issue, the reality of the situation is that we probably have an LE specific mod that's causing the issue, we just have to figure out which one it is and how to mitigate it.

Edited July 31, 2022 by ttpt

[ttpt]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Question, were you using vanilla followers or custom ones, in my test I used 3 of Toki's custom gals.    2nd Question, are you by chance using MHIYH and were any of the broken slaves previously under its management?  Asking cause I'm looking to see if we can eliminate potential causes of other things.

Spoiler

ZaZAnimationPack.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
SexLab - Sexual Fame [SLSF].esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
Devious Devices - Contraptions.esm
PamaFurnitureScr.esp
PamaPrisonAlternative.esm
EFFCore.esm
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
SLAdventures.esp
SL Survival.esp
SLSO.esp
sanguinesDebauchery.esp
SD Addons.esp
SD Patches.esp
Bathing in Skyrim - Main.esp
ImmersiveInteractions.esp
SlaveTats.esp
RapeTattoos.esp
FadeTattoos.esp
EFFDialogue.esp
SexLabDefeat.esp
SexLab_Dialogues.esp
BreakableEquipmentSystem.esp
DD_NPC_Fixup.esp
Public Whore.esp
PrisonAlternative_Executions_WindHelm.esp
PrisonAlternative_Executions_Riften.esp
PaPunishmentPack1.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
SexistGuards.esp
SexLabHorribleHarassment.esp
SexLab Approach.esp
FGT.esp
SD Cages.esp
Devious Lore.esp
DD Escape Overhaul.esp
Devious Devices - Equip.esp
SimpleSlavery.esp
UIExtensions.esp
WetFunction.esp
AI Overhaul.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

 

Here is a list of mostly sexlab related mods I'm running which I feel could possibly affect either followers or NPC dialogue, I'm leaning towards NPC dialogue being the culprit, check against this list to too see if there's anything familiar. I've removed stuff like sexlab cause we can easily rule that out or stuff like Defeat cause that had no chance of running when the dialogue breaks for me.

 

I've also tested this stuff indoors and checked my saves for running scripts and other stuff, with a pretty high and consistent framerate, so I feel like I can rule out script lag as well.

 

If nothing here looks familiar, there's also SKSE .dll plugins but I'm not sure how to get easily get a list of that out of ModOrganizer, I'll probably have to run through that manually, skyrimsouls for example is entirely a .dll plugin and those are honestly more likely to be the culprit since they will differ between SE and LE the most.

 

Lydia was also freshly recruited and tested with and still broken, so preexisting conditions on follower are unlikely as well.

Edited July 31, 2022 by ttpt

[EinarrTheRed]

27 minutes ago, ttpt said:

yeah, I'm probably not explaining myself well enough, but what you're describing is what happens when the dialogue breaks, you get all the vanilla follower dialogue instead of the added blocking dialogue about asking for a price or running away, or the chatter about getting punished.

 

The master also loses the "about your slave" dialogue from then on too.

No I understood you and yes we are seeing more or less the same thing.  The main difference was you were reporting that when you first talked to one of the slaves they had the dialog and then it broke... for me it was just broke, they never had it at all in my 3rd test.  But they did have it in my first two.

 

Will also confirm we are both seeing them use the FSM follower package instead of whatever behavior package they would normally used.

 

Okay, anyway, that aside.  It something wonky with the dialog.

 

So I did another quick test just now with Lydia, Jordis, Iona and Uthgerd.  None of these were or ever were under MHIYH management (sorry about the acronym, I'm so used to people using it, its a popular and handy mod if you haven't tried it.  I use it to assign additional followers to hang out at my HF homes so they're better guarded.)

 

First person I found was Jordis, she was at the College enslaved by Arniel Gane, bought her back.

Next one was Iona, she was at the Winking Skeever owned by Corpulus, the owner.  I left her where she was.

3rd was Lydia who was owned by Gorm in Morthal.  Now this is where things went wonky.  Up til now the dialog worked, I could chat with the slave several times, get their lines, talk to the owners things seemed to work fine.  When I went to see Lydia, at first she had her dialog about Go away so she won't get punished or used.  I did this 3 times.  Then the Jarl talks to Gorm, I go talk to Gorm and he force greets me about not disrespecting the Jarl.  We get that out of the way and now he has no custom dialog and neither did Lydia.  Things broke.  I don't know if it was the scene or the custom dialog that did it or if its that the 3rd person enslaved is where things get unstable.   However, even AFTER the dialog broke the sex scenes with Gorm and Lydia continued, so that part is still working meaning it appears its just the dialog breaking for some reason.

 

So next I went to find Uthgerd, she was in Understone Keep in Markarth, no dialog for her or her owner.  I told her to follow me and she came under EFF management but did NOT follow, just stood by her owner.  I used the MCM and Freed her and she immediately put her gear back on and followed me.

 

I went back to Iona, she had also lost her dialog and so had Corpulus.  So whatever is breaking the dialog it breaks all of it for all enslaved followers at the same time it appears.

 

It also *appears* the first two followers enslaved (or the same one done twice) are stable, but by the third time something gets unstable, I'm not sure why.

 

Meanwhile, looking at the load order ttpt posted, here's the list of what mods we have in common between our two load orders:

Spoiler

ZaZAnimationPack.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
EFFCore.esm
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
EFFDialogue.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

Those are the only mods I'm using that ttpt is also using.  I don't think any of those are the issue.

 

I'm going to ponder this a bit while I work on this bandit camp some more and then run another test and this time keep an annotated papyrus log, see if that helps shed light on it.

[Bane Master]

17 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I'm going to ponder this a bi

Here's a possibility - maybe the fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest is getting into an inconsistent state somehow - although why/how this would only happen in LE I have no idea!

 

To test this wait till you get the dialogue issue - then lookup fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest in the console - stop the quest and then start it, see if the dialogue comes back.

 

I would try this myself but I can't recreate your issue - it just works for me in SE

[EinarrTheRed]

7 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Here's a possibility - maybe the fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest is getting into an inconsistent state somehow - although why/how this would only happen in LE I have no idea!

 

To test this wait till you get the dialogue issue - then lookup fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest in the console - stop the quest and then start it, see if the dialogue comes back.

 

I would try this myself but I can't recreate your issue - it just works for me in SE

Will do in a bit.

 

One thought that occurred to me but I haven't had time to investigate is this.  I think you are right that something is causing it to go into an unstable state.  When I go talk to a slave, at first they always give me the "Go away..." dialog, but then if I talk to them again quickly enough the slave then gives me the "Help me" dialog which leads to the option to free them.  But, if I activate them one and get the "Go away..." and then wait a few seconds and do it again I get the "Go away" again.  What I'm wondering is if me repeatedly triggering the dialog is somehow breaking it, that at some point the quest gets into an impossible state, it is trying to use one of the dialog options but can't for some reason and maybe that breaks it.  Like I said, I have not checked into this nor looked at how you built the dialog so its just a bit of half-blind speculation.

[EinarrTheRed]

Okay, I think I *might* have figured this out.  I broke it by doing something very specific.  This time just one follower enslaved, Jordis.  As luck would have it she got assigned to Belethor so a short walk down to his shop and there she was in rags stirring a pot in the back.  Both Belethor and Jordis had the dialogs initially.  But if I repeatedly activate Jordis for her dialog rapidly, it breaks it after about 5-6 times of clicking on her.

 

From what I can tell, the quest is at stage 0, talking to her once sets it to stage 10, but if you exit out of the dialog it gets reset back to stage 0.  If this happens fast enough, it breaks it.

 

On another note, stopquest fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest and then start fsm_SlaveryDialogQuest does indeed fix the dialog problem... but I can then break it again and fix it again and I just did exactly that 6 times in a row... and things still worked and I bought Jordis back from Belthor (greedy SOB wanted the whole 10K!)  Even funnier was apparently just as I bought her freedom a sex scene was triggering so even though Jordis had re-equipped her gear as was my follower again, Belethor took her upstairs for one last bang.  LOL

 

So that's it, its not mod, its players pestering the slave too much breaks it.  Try that in SE, activate a slave repeatedly and rapidly and see if it breaks.

 

I'm not sure what to do about that, @Blackbird Wanderer might have better input on dealing with dialog, setting delays, etc.  It may be that reseting the stage to 0 is a bad thing in LE, but I'm hardly and expert on that.

 

I still have not retested MHIYH to see confirm whether there is or isn't a confict there, will work on that later.

 

I did some tweaking and... while it doesn't prevent it from ever happening, it does seem to make the dialog and quest more robust and much less prone.  Here's what I did.  In the fsm_SlaveDialogueQuest under the fsm_SlaveBranchTopic I took the first dialog option beginning "Go away! ..." and I made a small change.  I set it so it cannot repeat more than once every 0.1 hours.  This is a pretty short time but it helps prevent the rapid repeat.  But that wasn't enough, the slave needs a dialog to say so I copied that dialog twice and made two more versions with slightly different dialog.  Saved and loaded my last save in my last test.  Talked to Iona and in most cases she would swap between a couple of the new dialogs and then on the 3rd activation she'd go into the stage 10 "Please! If I displease him..." line.  I had to activate her pretty rapidly to break it again, pretty much deliberately trying to.  So that might have fixed it well enough for most games in LE (maybe SE to since far as I know SE works the same but it may be script lag which SE has less of that is the real difference).

 

Here's the modified esp for you to look at to see what I did.

 

Follower Slavery Mod.esp

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by EinarrTheRed
Added updated file

[ttpt]

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Okay, I think I *might* have figured this out.  I broke it by doing something very specific.  This time just one follower enslaved, Jordis.  As luck would have it she got assigned to Belethor so a short walk down to his shop and there she was in rags stirring a pot in the back.  Both Belethor and Jordis had the dialogs initially.  But if I repeatedly activate Jordis for her dialog rapidly, it breaks it after about 5-6 times of clicking on her.

 

From what I can tell, the quest is at stage 0, talking to her once sets it to stage 10, but if you exit out of the dialog it gets reset back to stage 0.  If this happens fast enough, it breaks it.

 

On another note, stopquest fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest and then start fsm_SlaveryDialogQuest does indeed fix the dialog problem... but I can then break it again and fix it again and I just did exactly that 6 times in a row... and things still worked and I bought Jordis back from Belthor (greedy SOB wanted the whole 10K!)  Even funnier was apparently just as I bought her freedom a sex scene was triggering so even though Jordis had re-equipped her gear as was my follower again, Belethor took her upstairs for one last bang.  LOL

 

So that's it, its not mod, its players pestering the slave too much breaks it.  Try that in SE, activate a slave repeatedly and rapidly and see if it breaks.

 

I'm not sure what to do about that, @Blackbird Wanderer might have better input on dealing with dialog, setting delays, etc.  It may be that reseting the stage to 0 is a bad thing in LE, but I'm hardly and expert on that.

 

I still have not retested MHIYH to see confirm whether there is or isn't a confict there, will work on that later.

 

I did some tweaking and... while it doesn't prevent it from ever happening, it does seem to make the dialog and quest more robust and much less prone.  Here's what I did.  In the fsm_SlaveDialogueQuest under the fsm_SlaveBranchTopic I took the first dialog option beginning "Go away! ..." and I made a small change.  I set it so it cannot repeat more than once every 0.1 hours.  This is a pretty short time but it helps prevent the rapid repeat.  But that wasn't enough, the slave needs a dialog to say so I copied that dialog twice and made two more versions with slightly different dialog.  Saved and loaded my last save in my last test.  Talked to Iona and in most cases she would swap between a couple of the new dialogs and then on the 3rd activation she'd go into the stage 10 "Please! If I displease him..." line.  I had to activate her pretty rapidly to break it again, pretty much deliberately trying to.  So that might have fixed it well enough for most games in LE (maybe SE to since far as I know SE works the same but it may be script lag which SE has less of that is the real difference).

 

Here's the modified esp for you to look at to see what I did.

 

Follower Slavery Mod.esp 73.38 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

I think SE is more multithreading capable than LE, so it may be less prone to breaking when pestering the follower constantly. And yeah, sometime the dialogue broke to begin with, or after a single loop or even lasting through several, a timing wasn't consistent but breaking it eventually was consistent.

 

If the mod is fixable via a stopquest fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest and then startquest fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest, I may just add that to a batch file and run it if it breaks, I already do that with the weapon drawn mechanic from survival since that also gets a state stuck sometimes.

 

Other than that I also will probably get your .esp here and give it a test run.

 

EDIT: the .esp didn't fix it, but running stopquest and startquest did, so that's good enough for me.

Edited August 1, 2022 by ttpt

[Bane Master]

9 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

stopquest fsm_SlaveryDialogueQuest and then start fsm_SlaveryDialogQuest does indeed fix the dialog problem...

OK - I think I have an alternative solution that will prevent this bug in LE

 

9 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I did some tweaking and...

Thanks - I'll take a look

 

I'll hopefully post a test update to you both later today

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bane Master

[HabibHanson]

Is there a way to define custom slave outfits for this mod? I really don't like the zaz high heels since they throw all animations off and look silly.

[Bane Master]

41 minutes ago, HabibHanson said:

Is there a way to define custom slave outfits for this mod? I really don't like the zaz high heels since they throw all animations off and look silly.

 

Yes - Outfits are completely under your control.

 

Outfits are defined in the file ..\Data\\SKSE\Plugins\FSM\SlaveOutfits.json and an audit log 'Audit_Outfits.txt' telling you what records relate to each item is available in the same location. 

 

Once you have made your edits to SlaveOutfits.json you can fire up FSM and update the Audit_Outfits.txt audit log file from the System page of the MCM to check everything is as you wanted.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bane Master