Naked Defeat AE/SE

[cerebus300]

So

So, here is what I saw in the MCM. It seems like my player is registering as defeated and the "calmquest stage might make them not attack." But it seems like whatever this status is doesn't change (if this is actually part of the problem). Anyway to force it to resolve?

Given this state, is it okay to update to the newest version of ND?

Edited September 9, 2025 by cerebus300

[eliset]

On 9/8/2025 at 5:05 PM, Nymra said:

Thats on you and your load order. On my AE with 300% anim load and basic sexlab 166 I dont see significant waiting times

 

@Nymra one reason you might not see the same slowness is that IsNymrasGame looks optimised for your game and nobody elses. When ItIsNymrasGame is true it exits early, but for people who aren't you there are 6 system calls to check the names above each time it's called. As you know there are lots of calls to ItIsNymrasGame so if the system calls are reduced or eliminated then things should be quicker.

 

Assuming you want to keep the player name check, the best optimisation depends is to only do it when the mod is enabled in the MCM. If you want to check the name more often then you could move it to a timer so it occurs in the background. If you want to continue doing it in IsNymrasGame then you could only check on every nth call or at the very least only get the name once per call to IsNymrasGame

[Display-nam]

Unfortunately, adding Scrab's Papyrus Extender does not seem to have changed anything...

 

After being flung somewhere, I get stuck hanging there. Since I deactivated the unlimited time to find a good spot, I now do get scenes, but they occur in mid-air, and if its high enough, the enemies will afterwards fall down and die.

 

My character, meanwhile, remains stuck, seeming to perform a backwards-walking animation in midair in perpetuity.

The sexlab freecam also doesn't seem to activate, and at the start of a sex scene the camera often moves either high up or down low, and then slowly returns to the original position.

 

As requested, I've added my Papyrus log:Papyrus.0.log

Papyrus.0.log

[Display-nam]

I've grown suspicious of the ZAZ 3BA enderal pack, going to try installing the ZAZ pack that's normally recommended for VR.

[Nymra]

3 hours ago, cerebus300 said:

So

So, here is what I saw in the MCM. It seems like my player is registering as defeated and the "calmquest stage might make them not attack." But it seems like whatever this status is doesn't change (if this is actually part of the problem). Anyway to force it to resolve?

Given this state, is it okay to update to the newest version of ND?

 

hmm, if this state is "stuck" (which I currently dont know how that happens) you can try to press "K" (or whatever the action key is for you) and/or disable/enable the Mod in the MCM System.

 

The Update Procedure should have the same effect. If this sticks, please report back in I upload a patch for you to try. 

[Nymra]

2 hours ago, eliset said:

@hexenhaus as an experiment try setting your name to

 

I highly advise to not do this since this enables hidden functions that are not understood. Neither does the author of this thread. 

This is open source but that does not mean that I like it when people try to be super smart and just give ppl wrong ideas. 
I kindly ask you to remove that part of your comment. 

 

2 hours ago, eliset said:

@Nymra one reason you might not see the same slowness is that IsNymrasGame looks optimised for your game and nobody elses. When ItIsNymrasGame is true it exits early, but for people who aren't you there are 6 system calls to check the names above each time it's called. As you know there are lots of calls to ItIsNymrasGame so if the system calls are reduced or eliminated then things should be quicker.

 

I cannot follow.

The "IsNymrasGame" is basically just my internal testing structure (so it has more features) and sometimes has extra functions that I use for myself (basically small mods in itself).

Those functions are in fact MORE than you have in the basic mod.

So what you say here is just wrong on that part. 

 

But I see what you want to point out and what I see as a potential problem is the function itself.
I have replaced it with a much simpler call that checks only on load I guess if its my game or not and then sets a simple bool.

 

2 hours ago, eliset said:

Assuming you want to keep the player name check, the best optimisation depends is to only do it when the mod is enabled in the MCM. If you want to check the name more often then you could move it to a timer so it occurs in the background. If you want to continue doing it in IsNymrasGame then you could only check on every nth call or at the very least only get the name once per call to IsNymrasGame

 

I still do not understand fully what you say, but I will just keep optimizing the function in all scripts next and then we can see if that has a noticeable impact. 

 

If the game is slow for you, you should also try "LagFix" in MCM System. That was a huge cause of slowness among several defeat mods. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2025 by Nymra

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Display-nam said:

Unfortunately, adding Scrab's Papyrus Extender does not seem to have changed anything...

 

After being flung somewhere, I get stuck hanging there. Since I deactivated the unlimited time to find a good spot, I now do get scenes, but they occur in mid-air, and if its high enough, the enemies will afterwards fall down and die.

 

My character, meanwhile, remains stuck, seeming to perform a backwards-walking animation in midair in perpetuity.

The sexlab freecam also doesn't seem to activate, and at the start of a sex scene the camera often moves either high up or down low, and then slowly returns to the original position.

 

As requested, I've added my Papyrus log:Papyrus.0.log

Papyrus.0.log 623.13 kB · 0 downloads

 

hmm, ok.

 

I have some ideas about this, I m writing a small patch which will expand the stuff the VRFix is shutting down.

Just to confirm, you have the VRfix enabled?

 

My ideas right now:

1. maybe VR has issues with Ragdoll effects? anything known about that?

2. to maintain the "scenario" the player is moved back to the spot that you were defeated at (or that you chose when pressing "K" -> find spot). So if that spot is in the air, you get back there all the time.

Moving the player there is also checking for its position, so maybe that causes issues in VR. 

 

Long story short, only testing can tell. I quote you when I have a patch ready (will be with 6.0 BETA 1 version then tho). 

 

 

[Nymra]

30 minutes ago, Display-nam said:

I've grown suspicious of the ZAZ 3BA enderal pack, going to try installing the ZAZ pack that's normally recommended for VR.

 

in theory you only need the 3BA bodyslide files.

comparing the ESP and the scripts I cannot remember finding anything suspicious back in the day. But please report back if you can trace any problem to it. 

[Display-nam]

6 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

in theory you only need the 3BA bodyslide files.

comparing the ESP and the scripts I cannot remember finding anything suspicious back in the day. But please report back if you can trace any problem to it. 

 

Not sure yet if it was an issue or not, but I do think removing it took care of a warning FNIS was giving me about SkyrimVR compatibility.

 

Anyway, here's another Papyrus log file from when I enabled the mod for the first time just now, and it caused my MCM to freeze up again. (Figured you might want to take a look at that too)

 

 

Papyrus.0.log

[Display-nam]

21 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

hmm, ok.

 

I have some ideas about this, I m writing a small patch which will expand the stuff the VRFix is shutting down.

Just to confirm, you have the VRfix enabled?

 

My ideas right now:

1. maybe VR has issues with Ragdoll effects? anything known about that?

2. to maintain the "scenario" the player is moved back to the spot that you were defeated at (or that you chose when pressing "K" -> find spot). So if that spot is in the air, you get back there all the time.

Moving the player there is also checking for its position, so maybe that causes issues in VR. 

 

Long story short, only testing can tell. I quote you when I have a patch ready (will be with 6.0 BETA 1 version then tho). 

 

 

If there's problems with ragdoll effects, I've never read about it. Either way, I had the ragdoll checkmark turned off, and the VRfix on, didn't change anything.

 

Edit: Awesome that you're making a patch, I'll try to log in once in a while to check for an update! ^^

Edited September 9, 2025 by Display-nam
Wanted to add something.

[Nymra]

Naked Defeat 6.0 BETA 2

 

Performance Test Update

 

as pointed out by @eliset the internal function that checks who is playing the game might cause lag for users. 

If you want to see if this gives a performance Boost, BETA 2 has NO change but this:

I changed the function to make less calls and only check a simple bool everywhere except when the mod is enabled or the game loaded. So anybody who feels the mod is slow, maybe this fixes it. 

 

If you followed the thread, please refrain from trying character names to activate my hidden features... they are not documented and modify player stats and other stuff that is in development or simple to use for me internally. 

 

The function was originally planned to allow me to create custom (hidden) modifications for patreons. 

 

Feel free to report back if Naked Defeat runs faster than before or if you feel no difference at all, especially between BETA 1 and BETA 2. 

 

EDIT:

 

Update Procedure from 6.0 BETA 1 to 2

-> none required, just install, load the game and play

 

Update Procedure from anything 4.xx or 5..xx  to 6.0 BETA 2 

- Install new Version overwriting previous ones (remove older version except EXTRA)
- Load Game -> open MCM System -> Disable Naked Defeat -> close MCM
- wait some seconds
- Go into MCM System -> Enable Naked Defeat -> Close MCM
- wait some seconds for the monitor functions to start -> play
---> if you want to check a correct update procedure, go into MCM System again and on the right side check if Both "Player Monitor Running" and "Player Status Monitor Running" are TRUE. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Naked Defeat 6-0 BETA 2 - FULL - (AE + SE).7z

Edited September 9, 2025 by Nymra

[Nymra]

12 hours ago, Display-nam said:

 

Not sure yet if it was an issue or not, but I do think removing it took care of a warning FNIS was giving me about SkyrimVR compatibility.

 

Anyway, here's another Papyrus log file from when I enabled the mod for the first time just now, and it caused my MCM to freeze up again. (Figured you might want to take a look at that too)

 

 

Papyrus.0.log 598.93 kB · 0 downloads

 

I suggest that you start looking at those logs, its a great way to debug your own game and seeing whats going sideways maybe.

 

In the log there is nothing suspicious at least from Naked Defeats side.

 

But there are tons of errors from other mods. 

 

Some DD mod seems to use old scripts, dunno if they all still required.

I had similar scripts in Nade and they caused some issues so I removed them.

Just something you could try and check which mod even does this: 
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAprefixList mod: DeviousDevices nMods: 5
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAmodID mod: DeviousDevices prefix: abc modID:1
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAsetList mod: DeviousDevices nSets: 52

[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:3 group:18
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAsetList mod: DeviousDevices nSets: 52

 

another wall of logs is created by this:

[09/09/2025 - 11:13:38PM] WARNING: Property DudestiaNudeOutfit on script DudestiaOutfitChangerSubjectScript attached to alias subject378 on quest DudestiaOutfitChangerQuest (42000D63) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

This:

[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ================================================[ Tainted Blood ]===============================================
[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ERROR: No Spell or Shout passed to HasSpell
stack:
    [ (00000014)].Actor.HasSpell() - "<native>" Line ?
    [None]._TaintedBloodDetectRaceScript.OnEffectStart() - "_TaintedBloodDetectRaceScript.psc" Line 77
[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ERROR: No Spell or Shout passed to HasSpell
stack:

 

 

Basically: 
Learn to understand the log, disable or remove mods that do stuff like the above and see if your problems go away.

I spent months doing that and it made my game very smooth and stable even back in the LE times by just removing unhealthy mods.

 

I cannot help you further than this. Naked Defeats logs look exactly like they should (they also produce some errors, but for me they never caused any problems). 

 

 

[cerebus300]

17 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

hmm, if this state is "stuck" (which I currently dont know how that happens) you can try to press "K" (or whatever the action key is for you) and/or disable/enable the Mod in the MCM System.

 

The Update Procedure should have the same effect. If this sticks, please report back in I upload a patch for you to try. 

Thanks for the help. The K actions didn't do anything, but when I disabled the mod and then reenabled it, that worked and the character's state was reset. Thanks for that suggestion.

[eliset]

18 hours ago, Nymra said:

I highly advise to not do this since this enables hidden functions that are not understood. Neither does the author of this thread. 

This is open source but that does not mean that I like it when people try to be super smart and just give ppl wrong ideas. 
I kindly ask you to remove that part of your comment. 

Yes I should have at least said it was inadvisable on a save you want to keep, so apologies for that. Thinking about it overnight I suspect they are running without bSpeedUpNativeCalls enabled in papyus tweaks - generally if that is enabled ND performance is reasonable.

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, eliset said:

Yes I should have at least said it was inadvisable on a save you want to keep, so apologies for that. Thinking about it overnight I suspect they are running without bSpeedUpNativeCalls enabled in papyus tweaks - generally if that is enabled ND performance is reasonable.

 

no worries. I just have in mind that users do user things, haha!

But good pointing out the nymra function nonetheless, I started to update it months ago but never did the full sweep like now with BETA 2.

Lag Fix is one other important thing which has to do with the CrossHairRegistry going haywire when activation controls are disabled
bSpeedUpNativeCalls is a good point, I ll add that to the mod description. 

Another factor that slows down things is simply Sexlab itself. I noticed a faster startup speed when I disabled the "Sexlab.ValidateActor" function.

But without it there is just too much shit going down and too many scenes fail to start with a setup that adds lots of actors (looking at you demonic creatures and the damned walking Shrooms!!!!) 

So, long story short, thx for pointing me to the IsNymrasGame() Function. cant hurt to optimize it either way. 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Nymra

[Display-nam]

7 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

I suggest that you start looking at those logs, its a great way to debug your own game and seeing whats going sideways maybe.

 

In the log there is nothing suspicious at least from Naked Defeats side.

 

But there are tons of errors from other mods. 

 

Some DD mod seems to use old scripts, dunno if they all still required.

I had similar scripts in Nade and they caused some issues so I removed them.

Just something you could try and check which mod even does this: 
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAprefixList mod: DeviousDevices nMods: 5
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAmodID mod: DeviousDevices prefix: abc modID:1
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAsetList mod: DeviousDevices nSets: 52

[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:3 group:18
[09/09/2025 - 11:14:09PM] FNIS aa GetAAsetList mod: DeviousDevices nSets: 52

 

another wall of logs is created by this:

[09/09/2025 - 11:13:38PM] WARNING: Property DudestiaNudeOutfit on script DudestiaOutfitChangerSubjectScript attached to alias subject378 on quest DudestiaOutfitChangerQuest (42000D63) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

This:

[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ================================================[ Tainted Blood ]===============================================
[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ERROR: No Spell or Shout passed to HasSpell
stack:
    [ (00000014)].Actor.HasSpell() - "<native>" Line ?
    [None]._TaintedBloodDetectRaceScript.OnEffectStart() - "_TaintedBloodDetectRaceScript.psc" Line 77
[09/09/2025 - 11:13:35PM] ERROR: No Spell or Shout passed to HasSpell
stack:

 

 

Basically: 
Learn to understand the log, disable or remove mods that do stuff like the above and see if your problems go away.

I spent months doing that and it made my game very smooth and stable even back in the LE times by just removing unhealthy mods.

 

I cannot help you further than this. Naked Defeats logs look exactly like they should (they also produce some errors, but for me they never caused any problems). 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, that outfit changer mod was always kinda buggy in my previous set-up, guess I'm not too surprised... I'll have to see if I can get an alternative that works better for VR.

 

 

[Nymra]

18 minutes ago, Display-nam said:

 

Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, that outfit changer mod was always kinda buggy in my previous set-up, guess I'm not too surprised... I'll have to see if I can get an alternative that works better for VR.

 

what did the mod do?
Naked Defeat has an Outfit Management System (you can save and load outfits in the MCM) or have them in a more gameplay style with "Naked Loot" (check the PDF in the Naked Defeat folder for guidance). 

[eliset]

22 minutes ago, Nymra said:

So, long story short, thx for pointing me to the IsNymrasGame() Function. cant hurt to optimize it either way. 

NP - still I should have gone about it in a better way.

 

BTW there are other optimisations that you might want to consider at some point. While you were away spent some time changing a few things for my own amusement. For example I have moved CombatStrip out of PlayerAlias and initiated by an event. The advantage of this that OnHit still runs when CombatStrip is running. My aim was to actually calculate which body slot was hit rather than having the current RND - unfortunately RL got in the way and I have never got back to it. But there is definite advantages in splitting as it allows you to do more in CombatStrip without interrupting OnHit.

 

Also in OnHit you can cache the name and raceKey for a hitter rather than calculating on every hit - this helps with magic attack where onHit is called repeatedly. I stored all the hitters in StorageUtil lists and cleared the lists when combat ends, but for magic attacks even remembering the last hitter helps.

 

I also went through the proximity, allegiance and calm quest for the defeat route and tried to make sure things were only calculated once and then reused across those quests. The changes are more involved so won't describe them. But overall going through and trying to improve things was really satisfying

 

 

[Nymra]

26 minutes ago, eliset said:

NP - still I should have gone about it in a better way.

 

BTW there are other optimisations that you might want to consider at some point. While you were away spent some time changing a few things for my own amusement. For example I have moved CombatStrip out of PlayerAlias and initiated by an event. The advantage of this that OnHit still runs when CombatStrip is running. My aim was to actually calculate which body slot was hit rather than having the current RND - unfortunately RL got in the way and I have never got back to it. But there is definite advantages in splitting as it allows you to do more in CombatStrip without interrupting OnHit.

 

Also in OnHit you can cache the name and raceKey for a hitter rather than calculating on every hit - this helps with magic attack where onHit is called repeatedly. I stored all the hitters in StorageUtil lists and cleared the lists when combat ends, but for magic attacks even remembering the last hitter helps.

 

I also went through the proximity, allegiance and calm quest for the defeat route and tried to make sure things were only calculated once and then reused across those quests. The changes are more involved so won't describe them. But overall going through and trying to improve things was really satisfying

 

Yeah, you are correct there. And I get the feeling of beeing satisfied by rewriting and improving things. Actually 2/3rds of the time I spent in the Scripts right now is trying to rewrite and better organize my own mess from back in the day.

 

Issue is, I learned scripting papyrus (I had ZERO prior knowlegde of any other sort) and desigend/changed and tried to understand the function the original mod (Naked Dungeons) at the same time bascially. Kind of line by line.... some of my attempts to understand extremely basic things still remain as artifacts in the scripts, hehe.
Had no other knowledge in programming or stuff like that. 
So in the end I often just went for a way that worked AT ALL
Now, with a bit more understanding I would do things differently and indeed tried to do that now little by little. 
But I m still very far away from really beeing a professional. I just go from one step to the next and try to learn new tricks on the side. 

Could you make an example for the "calculated once" for the mentioned quests? 
I m just curious. 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Nymra

[Display-nam]

5 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

what did the mod do?
Naked Defeat has an Outfit Management System (you can save and load outfits in the MCM) or have them in a more gameplay style with "Naked Loot" (check the PDF in the Naked Defeat folder for guidance). 

 

It allows you to permanently delete NPC's default outfits, and set new outfits for them to wear.

Biggest problem with it, however, was that 'locked in' outfits couldn't be stripped by SexLab, so it was either or.

[Nymra]

9 minutes ago, Display-nam said:

 

It allows you to permanently delete NPC's default outfits, and set new outfits for them to wear.

Biggest problem with it, however, was that 'locked in' outfits couldn't be stripped by SexLab, so it was either or.

 

ah, darn
noticed many mods from nexus dont go well with sexlab...

 

If you want only the followers, I m currently working on a Follower Outfit management system. 
It will also synchronize your "clothed" status. Meaning if the PC has no body armor, the followers wont wear one either, hehe. 
But no eta yet sadly. 

 

[Talesien]

Say Nymra, you are not playing the main quest very often anymore, do you? Neither do I, but this playthrough I saw it through to the end. Recently, while playing through DAc0da, after a defeat, no suitable rapers, etc. could be found, well possibly due to the opponents it adds and perhaps my settings. Anyway I finally ended up in the Afterlive scenario and that, while it worked, was a bit surreal. Like the place was well lit. A table with potions had been added. Delphine and Esbern were moving around, apparently oblivious to what was going on. In short it appears you are not using a copy of Skyheaven Temple, you are using the actual thing. Which is fine until you reach the point in the main quest at which Delphin decides to set up a new Blades HQ there. Perhaps consider using a copy instead. ^^

Edited September 11, 2025 by Talesien

[Nymra]

24 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Say Nymra, you are not playing the main quest very often anymore, do you? Neither do I, but this playthrough I saw it through to the end. Recently, while playing through DAc0da, after a defeat, no suitable rapers, etc. could be found, well possibly due to the opponents it adds and perhaps my settings. Anyway I finally ended up in the Afterlive scenario and that, while it worked, was a bit surreal. Like the place was well lit. A table with potions had been added. Delphine and Esbern were moving around, apparently oblivious to what was going on. In short it appears you are not using a copy of Skyheaven Temple, you are using the actual thing. Which is fine until you reach the point in the main quest at which Delphin decides to set up a new Blades HQ there. Perhaps consider using a copy instead. ^^

 

haha, good point.
I had that in mind when I created the scenario, but never got around of "copying" the skyhaven temple, but wanted to make it work still, simply because back then I did not exactly know how to do it.

But since I m starting to add stuff to the ESP and copy cells, I should finally do it with skyhaven too.

Originally I wanted to use the Sovngard hall btw by copying it, that might happen then too (I want to add alot more variety to the afterlife).

 

Also reminds me that I wanted to replay the main quest indeed with Naked Defeat AND finally make Dragons work for the after battle fun... 

 

[eliset]

22 hours ago, Nymra said:

Could you make an example for the "calculated once" for the mentioned quests? 
I m just curious. 

Yes happy to do so but will have to wait till the weekend

[Display-nam]

18 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

ah, darn
noticed many mods from nexus dont go well with sexlab...

 

If you want only the followers, I m currently working on a Follower Outfit management system. 
It will also synchronize your "clothed" status. Meaning if the PC has no body armor, the followers wont wear one either, hehe. 
But no eta yet sadly. 

 

 

Sounds neat! ^^

Just to be clear, you're still working on the VR patch for Naked Defeat, it wasn't included in BETA 2 or anything, right?