So why is beastiality bad now in Sims 4 yet for Skyrim/Fallout its polar opposite?

[regrius]

It's like Khyan69 said, it's all about the Benjamins.

As for the LL party line. Adults lie. About everything, all the time. Especially when money's involved. It's our universal pastime.

No one will ever know who did what to whom or why, but the version that makes sense to me is this:

Patreon can and will do whatever they feel like to keep their sheep from getting spooked into a moral panic, and disrupting profits.

ThatGuy used Turbo's project as a scaffold to do his own socially unacceptable thing.

Turbo has 8809 Patreon not-customers not-paying at least $12 a year, checks that size come with a supporting cast.

LL disappears ThatGuy in the middle of the night with the barest handwaving, and everyone is told to forget he ever existed or join him.

Patreon profits are secured, Turbo continues payroll, and the dust is quietly swept under the rug.

 

Moral of the story, don't count on rules or promises to protect you if you decide to release something that'll spook the herd.

All this stuff is just chasing monetization now, and the schemes, collusion and zero transparency that come with it. Nothing has changed since Adam Smith's day.

[Halstrom]

On 4/23/2021 at 4:34 PM, DarkAudit said:

Make a mod that adds it without using code from he-who-shall-not-be-named, and it'd probably be fine.

It's funny the suspect code isn't shown anywhere here or consideration to the other 99850 lines of code that are completely different? Both are huge mods and do a lot of different things to each other. We Fallout modders used snipets of others code all the time without a problem learning off each other to improve the users experience. Bestiality mods are common for Skyrim and Fallout, but people aren't trying to make money from sex mods there.

ATF has mods for my FONV Pregnancy to enable underage stuff despite blocking I had in the code, no matter how much protection I added, I'm not that good at scripting, someone would eventually crack whatever we did.

Overall in my view the differences in the communities are probably because there's probably just a lot more Vanilla people in the Sims community and more money involved than other games. I understand and respect Nexus for their content restrictions, but Lovers Lab has never struck me as a Vanilla forum. One less coder for the Sims community, there are heaps of them anyway right?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Halstrom

[pariah3j]

I'm a trust but verify kind of guy - the whole stolen code thing has been bantered about, but I've never seen any 'receipts' to back that claim up.

 

Its always felt like Colonol's mod was a threat to WW's profitability and the free mod trying to do the same thing had to be put down. 

[Deviancy]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:07 PM, Halstrom said:

It's funny the suspect code isn't shown anywhere here or consideration to the other 99850 lines of code that are completely different?
We Fallout modders used snipets of others code all the time without a problem learning off each other to improve the users experience.

Overall in my view the differences in the communities are probably because there's probably just a lot more Vanilla people in the Sims community and more money involved than other games.

Someone actually said that besitiality would be wrong in the game because its illegal in the US, but the last I checked, so is cocaine and other drugs, but no one seems to have an issue with Basemental Drugs, which is a great mod by the way.   The Fallout/ES modding community does have far less issues when it comes to content, unless we're talking about Nexus, they are a little nit picky, and the ES/Fallout community also have less issues with others using snippets of their coding, but there's also far less sites expecting donations for Fallout/ES mods, the vast majority do it for free.  Since the first Sims game, there's been those who wanted to be paid, and that's why Pay Sites Must Be Destroyed popped out, they were like, "you can't charge for the mod, says so in EA's EULA", which it does.  Any mod that uses Sims content cannot be profited from, it falls under EA's copyright.  So really, no Sims modder has the right to have an issue with someone taking snippets of their code, belongs to EA, not them.  For the record, I am not accusing any Sims modder on this site of being greedy, I think Turbo is cool and the others are cool, they put up free content but if one donates on their paetron accounts, they get earlier access to animations or other things, I don't have an issue with early access.  But they do have to remember, they are still violating EA's EULA, changing the word from pay to donate, EA isn't stupid, if they want to, they will come down on that modder, but they're just too busy making a fortune to do so.  

I do get more game time from Sims than ES though, I played Oblivion one summer a lot but its all action, with the mods its all action and sex, but with the Sims its never ending, so many different things can be done, and without mods so many more can be done, there's a violence mod that allows one to use it to be an action game as well, well a point and click action game but action is action.
 

[Guest]

I'm curious, what did this "he-who-shall-not-be-named" do? And who the hell is he?

 

And to keep on topic, I think there are a lot of prudes that play TS4. It's a damn game, they need to pull that stick out of their asses. Hmm.... Or maybe they don't want too because then they'll get splinters. ? 

[jd6]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:34 PM, SailorPanda said:

I'm curious, what did this "he-who-shall-not-be-named" do? And who the hell is he?

 

And to keep on topic, I think there are a lot of prudes that play TS4. It's a damn game, they need to pull that stick out of their asses. Hmm.... Or maybe they don't want too because then they'll get splinters. ? 

Afaik, he was the guy who did WickedPets and that other mod about rape and slavery and so on. Apparently he plagiarized code multiple times and got banned. I wasn't personally in love with the manner in which he interacted with users here, but I don't know the guy nor do I know what exactly happened between him and the moderators, so I can't really say anything about who he was. Some people think there was some sort of conspiracy to get him off this site because of the content of the mods he made, but I don't really see a motive for that? Like why not change the rules to ban Bestiality and/or explicit rape and then kick him out? Why manufacture some sort of conspiracy to get rid of him? Seems pointless. His user here was ColonelNutty.

 

[Gambit]

I think that past year, Sim4 LL community was more peaceful. Shit hit the fan when a blogger talked about kiddy porn mods and other fetishes.

Since Sims4 LL community went berzerk. Next stage will be maybe banning all non missonary sex position.

 

But, imo, Patreon rules and money behind it, is the main reason of such ban. Not morality.

 

I'm not playing anymore sims4 since i've learned that there was some spy script in ww (even if it should be removed now). And I don't know if I will play again.

I just play Skyrim SE more, now.

 

 

[Ashal]

Beastiality isn't disallowed for The Sims on the site. We just happen to have banned the main mod providing it.

 

As for why it's more accepted on other games compared to Sims; I think the answer is pretty obvious. The beastiality of mods for elder scrolls and fallout games is largely focused on fictional monsters, while Sims is focused on actual animals we keep as pets. 

 

----

 

On 5/16/2021 at 1:44 AM, pariah3j said:

I'm a trust but verify kind of guy - the whole stolen code thing has been bantered about, but I've never seen any 'receipts' to back that claim up.

 

I've said this many times when this topic comes up.  I was given many examples of stolen code as evidence and the blatant theft was painfully obvious. This was shared among all the moderators and it was 100% unanimous that they have clearly continued to steal significant amounts of code despite being having been warned about it previously. After being warned about it  they admitted to the fact and apologized.  However! They obviously had not not stopped doing it, we were soft on the approach before but they showed no remorse and continued doing it anyway. So they were removed from the site after we were shown the evidence of it continuing.

 

As for "receipts," the many examples of stolen code were from a decompile. In my mind, it is not my place to release other peoples source code so I have chosen to keep the evidence to myself. If you want to see it, you should be talking to the author of the original mod and not me.

 

I will say though, the evidence included very obvious copies of logic, structure, and even arbitrarily chosen variable amounts for needs decay values that were copied down to the decimal and order of setting.

 

[landess]

As a Sims 3 user I hadn't looked at this post until I noticed the Boss made a reply.

 

I do know the first person to create Beastiality Animations for 3 decided for personal reasons to remove the download for those from the other animation packages available from that creator. Now I can use deductive reasoning to understand why - there was a shitstorm in the Sims 4 section, so they retroactively removed them from 3 as well. As a Patreon user I guess they didn't want any connection between themselves and this content.

 

Reading through all the posts has given me other insights and observations:

 

> Sims 3 does successfully support more than one sex mod here at LL

 

> Questionable actions such as 'non-consentual' sex exists in at least one of those mods, and does remain available on the Patreon site. (I guess they need someone to cry about it before they take notice)

 

> 'HeWhoShallNotBeNamed' has also taken code from one of these Sims 3 sex mods and used it at that 'site which shall also not be named' as a framework for under age content. This also includes changes to content from NRaas.

 

> The final observation above would also explain to me a good reason to disassociate that user from this site besides Ashal's assurances there was indeed theft.

 

 

My conclusion aligns with several statements made which point to the popularity of the Sims 4 in general, and the use of Patreon for many associated creators whom are trying to protect themselves from 'guilt by association'. Patreon has become a morality gatekeeper.

[Oops19]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:44 AM, pariah3j said:

I'm a trust but verify kind of guy - the whole stolen code thing has been bantered about, but I've never seen any 'receipts' to back that claim up.

If one would care about code copied from TS4 into mods there were many mods to be removed from multiple sites. If two distinct modders do this one may believe that A copied from B and vice versa. Without the permission form EA to reverse engineer the original code it's quite obvious where this leads to.
One may wonder why many modders use identical function and variable names, purely accidental these can be found even in the EA package/pyc files.
 

Many values, including need decay values are stored only in XML files. One must not change the decimal and depending on the tool used to extract these the order, naming and format will be 100% identical. It's not that the tool works differently every day or when someone else uses it. To match the Python naming a string like "mood_StateDecay" is named  "MOOD_STATE_DECAY". I understand that this can be named as an example of stealing code while it has a strange taste.

 

No one is willing to share in public at least 20 code lines which have been copied from mod A to mod B. I assume that at least 50% of the logic and 80% of the variable names are copied from EA anyway.

[Deviancy]

6 hours ago, Ashal said:

The beastiality of mods for elder scrolls and fallout games is largely focused on fictional monsters, while Sims is focused on actual animals we keep as pets. .

 

One of the most popular mods, on this site, for Oblivion was the one I believe was called Loversbitch or something, where the character was all into just having sex with dogs and procreating with them, and as the mod progressed the character started crawling on all 4's when she got horny, even had a "knotting" system.  But there's a balance between "pet" and monsters in ES and Fallout because there are monsters in those games to have that balance, there are no monsters in Sims, if there were, surely there would be sex mods for that.  The latest version of WW lets one have sex with the Grim Reaper now but the Grim Reaper is human for the most part.  Speaking of which, I have all online functions of the Sims 4 disabled but when I loaded the game today, it informed me there was an update for WW, which by coincidence, there is.  I refuse to use EA's latest patch, has a few glitches, and Turbo says the new WW is updated for that patch, so I'm not sure if it will work right without that patch.  But what I want to know is how it was detected that there was an update available, I don't like that, makes it seem like WW has spyware enabled in its coding.  

[SimulatedFantasyHero]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:36 AM, Ashal said:

I will say though, the evidence included very obvious copies of logic, structure, and even arbitrarily chosen variable amounts for needs decay values that were copied down to the decimal and order of setting.

 

Why didn't you just say... LL and staff, doesn't have a hand in this activity and is Neutral in this.

 

I know one person has:

 

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0

and doesn't post source code..

 

The other with:

Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International

and did post the source code..

 

Access to this repository has been disabled by GitHub Staff

 

Seems really sketchy to be honest. NoDerivatives should only be used for Music, Artwork, Video, Stories..

But Codebase? It's like "here is the free crack kiddies..."

 

I guess the biggest worry is if a.) The first one everyone knows, does a heel turn and walks away. 

worse b.) they run a back a deal for new stuff...

 

Then again.. if Max1m has already backdealed him... EVERYONE SHOULD PROBABLY MAKE BACK-UPS OF EVERYTHING NOW.

 

Activision/Blizzard "OMG, the sky is falling we are losing WoW players!!!"

EA/Maxim evil laughter "Now is our time to shine Imagine. $5 for 5 poses! Micro DLCS. Then just when their Sim is about to Climax... A pop up says $10 to finish! Otherwise they get a permanent mood debuff or their characters divorce!!! Muhahahah!"

 

Then again it took creators to fight against google and youtube to get youtube-dl reinstated...

 

ffs. LL Might have backed the wrong horse here..

[FauxFurry]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:49 AM, Gambit said:

I think that past year, Sim4 LL community was more peaceful. Shit hit the fan when a blogger talked about kiddy porn mods and other fetishes.

Since Sims4 LL community went berzerk. Next stage will be maybe banning all non missonary sex position.

 

 

Yes. Those mods. The ones which will not so much as display on one's browser unless one has an account there. Were those journalists so curious as to what lay on that site as to register? Anything for the clicks, I suppose. 

[TentacleBandit]

I do agree that overall that "stealing code" in some ways is a very grey area for the Sims.  For example if you want to make a sex mod, you basically need to make the exact same code lines to play animations because thats how the game handles animations. 

 

Another great example would pregnancy system, there are tons of mods that have a variation of pregnancy in them - but they need to follow some very basic code line to work - and it will properly look exactly similar between mods for a sim to even get pregnant or the game won't recognize it.  Now if a modder makes a fertility system and it works EXACTLY like WW including checking your phone, showing the exact same info ect than thats clearly using WW assets thats clearly code theft - but its also the internet lol.

 

Also were are talking mods here, I've been in the Sim community for a loooong time and I can't tell you how many people I'v eseen leave the community because they get upset or even leave the community because somebody packed their mod into a sim lot without asking ect.  But once anything is on the net you really have no control over it, don't believe me?  Ask the movie and music industry how that worked out for them.

 

That said I do agree that taking somebody's mod and SELLING it in a pack (there is a legit website that does this cant remember the name) is pure up wrong - but again its nearly impossible to stop people from doing this if they really want to.   I'm not saying its right I'm just saying welcome to the internet, is this your first visit?

 

As for beastiality in sims 4 - I think it mostly comes down to the fact that a HUGE portion of Sim 4 players (and of that audience) are really easily offended after all a lot of them are the same twitter crowd that freak out over everything that easily offends them.  Although I think we live in an age that likes to BE offended too or find ways to be.  Gives them purpose since most people lack it now.

 

I dunno...where is Jebus?!

Edited July 8, 2021 by TentacleBandit

[Sims4Amateur]

So, as I understand it, the reason there is no beastiality/rape framework on LoversLab is because ColonelNutty was banned.

 

If the content itself is not banned, which it doesn't seem to be as animations for it are still up, does that mean that another framework could be made? And is anyone doing so?

[johnpage]

Hmm methinks if the animations are still up its not the subject matter thats the issue that means then that banning nutty is perhaps a personel attack by ?

[HornyJOJO]

Isn't DD just no longer available on LoversLab anymore (as opposed to being gone completely)?  From what I can tell you can still download/get support for it, just not here. 

 

[johnpage]

DD is available elsewhere yes, the modder continues his/her work and continues support, for obviouse reasons i cant say where but searching the net will show results easy enough

[HornyJOJO]

8 hours ago, johnpage said:

DD is available elsewhere yes, the modder continues his/her work and continues support, for obviouse reasons i cant say where but searching the net will show results easy enough

That's what I thought. I'm a bit confused as to why people are asking for an alternate framework when DD and similar mods are still available elsewhere. 

[johnpage]

People are fed Misinformation or disinformation or simply dont know where to look once the door is closed

[Khaine2000DK]

I don't know if that is the case, think there was one creator of a variation of the WW mod that allowed it, but think the removal of that person had more to do with using uncredited coding from other creators and without their permission. Then may be true some are less willing to make animations for it and things like that, but think it has more to do with patreon than loverslab , because doing said thing on patreon and getting caught doing it will mean banning according to patreons ruleset on adult stuff. So given many the animation makers are relying on support money in order to be commited to making mods on a regular basis without having extra income job, many are likely choosing not to do that kinda stuff since it would cause some issues for them. If they're dependent on some source of income in order to stay commited and put out new things on regular basis for their supporters and followers.

 

Also guessing most the stuff for Skyrim is kind of old by now, so much of it probably were made before bestiality became chastised from platforms like patreon, much like you probably still can find breeding season out there with that kinda content to be downloaded, but if content creators try doing that on places like Patreon now they will either get immediately banned if they're caught or told to get rid of it. It's one reason the breeders of the nephelym are all humaniod beasts because doing animal beast is no longer permitted there. There still some who work around it using subscribestar or itch.io to fund their stuff, but think large part the reason comes down to money. Since most creators live on fan support money in order to have making mods and animations as their full time jobs.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Khaine2000DK

[HornyJOJO]

As Ashal said, I think one of the reasons why bestiality in the Sims 4 is particularly looked down on is because it focuses on actual animals and it's more or less supposed to be a life simulator. Skyrim, meanwhile, is in this fantasy world, and has dragons and stuff - the idea of bestiality somehow seems more... natural for Skyrim, I guess?  But in the Sims 4, these are animals we keep as pets (and now with Cottage Living, livestock).  People have even made mods for animals that aren't in the game (yet?) solely for the purpose of having sexual interactions with them.  Because of the more realistic (and I use that term very loosely) setting of Sims 4, and because they're with real animals, the idea of bestiality in the Sims 4 is viewed as more shocking and unacceptable. 

 

Additionally, since people are still actively posting bestiality content for the Sims 4 on LL, it's safe to say that DD getting banned was definitely not based on its content. 

[Oops19]

TS4, the real life simulator without fantasy elements like witches, mermaids and vampires and real pets.

The initial target group for TS4 were likely kids and may they still are.

EA could make much more money if they would target the adult group which would happily spend money for better sims, mode detailed body parts and meshes.

[HornyJOJO]

19 minutes ago, Oops19 said:

TS4, the real life simulator without fantasy elements like witches, mermaids and vampires and real pets.

The initial target group for TS4 were likely kids and may they still are.

EA could make much more money if they would target the adult group which would happily spend money for better sims, mode detailed body parts and meshes.

which is why I said "more or less supposed to be a life simulator." Sure, I've seen some animations for the cowplant and strangerville mother, but those don't seem to be as popular as the animations with dogs, cats, etc. (In regards to non-human sims). 

 

 

 

 

[johnpage]

So if LL was once the site where rules were waived why is patreon dictating to modders that once relied on support of LL members who now have to pay for mods that were once free sounds like backhand manipulation to me.

Also Brinaflute out of curiosity how do you know cats and dog animations are more popular ?

Also on another note i downloaded a mod the other day which had cuddles and kisses and i am looking forward to loading that one up as it seems more of a normal human responce which leads me to my next comment that i belive cat and dog anims are downloaded out of curiosity based on that i douwnloaded for curiosity but i certainly woul'nt shag a dog cow horse etc in real life, after all sims 4 or any game is a SIMULATION with fantasy elements and not real life in my opinion, i play a modded fallout 4 where my big breasted heroine saves the world and murders the bad guys, but in real life i go out in the world to be as nice to all people i come across good or bad because at the end of the day people are allowed to be who they want to be and its not my job to judge them i can only judge myself and i try to make myself the best i can be in my opinion. sorry ii waffled on didnt i, much love to all.