Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls [WIP]

[HannoJojo]

5 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Version 2.3.3 is out. With the verbose/numerical hotkey option and two more keywords. See the mod description on how to use them:

 

Note for developers:

 

DoM is aware of the following keywords, include them in your clothing mod or use KID to propagate them to your favorite mods,

• ClothingPoor: this is a Skyrim keyword describing degrading clothes used on laborer slaves.
• ClothingRich: this is a Skyrim keyword describing clothes used on favorite loyal slaves.
• ClothingShame: this is a DoM keyword describing degrading clothes used on sex slaves.
• ClothingSexy: this is a DoM keyword describing fancy clothes used on sex slaves. Well training slaves will consider this positive, while others might consider them degrading.

Thank you for adding the option, however it won't show up for me after updating (I was on 2.3.2 before)

I reloaded the MCM several times and also tried following this https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/gzoxp3/psa_i_figured_out_how_to_bring_back_lost_mcm/ guide, hoping it would help to update the menu to no avail.

Is there anything else I could try? When I updated the mod before (although the previous version was alot older and featured only 1 subpage in your mcm) it would show up properly after using the reload MCM version.

EDIT:
The date of the MCM.pex also seems kinda "old", so perhaps you forgot to recompile it? (Just trying to figure out why the new option might not be showing up for me)


EDIT 2:
Probably rather related to me updating this mod & PAHE mid-game before, but I'm not able to restrain as punishment anymore. I can choose the option and the dialogue would work as usual, but the animation nerver plays and the state doesn't change too (Can try to restrain again, option to remove restraints not showing up)
If I use the Bondage Tie-up option tying up does work, but again I can't remove the restraints afterwards.

Do you have any idea what I could do to resolve this?

Edited December 19, 2021 by HannoJojo

[InsanityFactor]

7 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Doesn't Sexlab or Zaz already has those keywords? Like Clothing Sexy or ClothingBDSM. I will check later.

I don't know too much about that but I know SLA has a keyword for 'revealing' or something like that. 

[TrollAutokill]

2 hours ago, HannoJojo said:

Thank you for adding the option, however it won't show up for me after updating (I was on 2.3.2 before)

I reloaded the MCM several times and also tried following this https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/gzoxp3/psa_i_figured_out_how_to_bring_back_lost_mcm/ guide, hoping it would help to update the menu to no avail.

Is there anything else I could try? When I updated the mod before (although the previous version was alot older and featured only 1 subpage in your mcm) it would show up properly after using the reload MCM version.

EDIT:
The date of the MCM.pex also seems kinda "old", so perhaps you forgot to recompile it? (Just trying to figure out why the new option might not be showing up for me)


EDIT 2:
Probably rather related to me updating this mod & PAHE mid-game before, but I'm not able to restrain as punishment anymore. I can choose the option and the dialogue would work as usual, but the animation nerver plays and the state doesn't change too (Can try to restrain again, option to remove restraints not showing up)
If I use the Bondage Tie-up option tying up does work, but again I can't remove the restraints afterwards.

Do you have any idea what I could do to resolve this?

Argh I forgot to copy the new pex files to the archive. So yes 2.3.3 is currently 2.3.2 with two added keywords...

 

Sorry about that, will update correctly as soon as I get back to my computer.

Edited December 19, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[Orlando53]

  On 12/15/2021 at 11:33 PM, Orlando53 said:

Hi, great mod. Can someone give me a clue how the thugs system is working. How far the training should be, that there is a possibility to generate a thug?

Maybe something is not working correct in my system.

Thanks

You need to have close to 100% in all stats and the slave mood should be loyal or in love. You can also hire friendly NPCs if they have a low honesty and low open minded.

 

But be aware that this part of the mod is still full of glitches and incomplete.

 

 

Thanks a lot

[Nonseen]

6 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Version 2.3.3 is out. With the verbose/numerical hotkey option and two more keywords. See the mod description on how to use them:

 

Note for developers:

 

DoM is aware of the following keywords, include them in your clothing mod or use KID to propagate them to your favorite mods,

• ClothingPoor: this is a Skyrim keyword describing degrading clothes used on laborer slaves.
• ClothingRich: this is a Skyrim keyword describing clothes used on favorite loyal slaves.
• ClothingShame: this is a DoM keyword describing degrading clothes used on sex slaves.
• ClothingSexy: this is a DoM keyword describing fancy clothes used on sex slaves. Well training slaves will consider this positive, while others might consider them degrading.

 

i created a tester tool for this update:

NonSeenDOMKeywordTester.esp

 

i plan soon as possible merge with the ZAZ mod. so we can test out zaz effects as well!

 

xedit cleared, ussep comaptible, no script, only add new items based on exisiting ones.

best of my knowlage comaptyble anything exept things that remove/change the riverwood trader/blacsmith inventory.

 

How to use:

start new game or wiat next inventory refresh

go riverwood trader and look item name start NSDKT all of them cost 1 gold.

the item names let you know what keyword active on it.

 

if one lose wepons the blacskmith alvor has backup keyworded weapons and sihelds

yes it is a 5 item keyworded set.  my next update contain rings and ammulets too!

 

Reason for weapon and siheld keywording:

A crazy moder(like me)/by mistake some one. put wrong keyword to siheld and wepon so this way we can chek out this how effect.

[InsanityFactor]

Does anyone have any idea how the mod interacts with custom races? I just set up a monstergirl modlist and they seem to get enslaved properly (for the most part) but I haven't tried training or anything in depth yet. Has anyone else done this? @TrollAutokill Any idea how the personality system is gonna react to those?

[Nonseen]

11 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Doesn't Sexlab or Zaz already has those keywords? Like Clothing Sexy or ClothingBDSM. I will check later.

i know its to late.

 

SL Arused has a keywrod in it:

EroticArmor [KYWD:0308C7F6]

 

one use found in ck:

Quest: slaNakedNPC

this linked to slaNakedScript

 

 found no more data about it or its uses.

 

i know SL Arused give option in MCM:  player can set up current armor as revealing.

I think this keyword in use this case.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

14 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

• ClothingPoor: this is a Skyrim keyword describing degrading clothes used on laborer slaves.
• ClothingRich: this is a Skyrim keyword describing clothes used on favorite loyal slaves.

How does vanilla Skyrim use these keywords?  If I were to make a patch that applies these keywords to various clothing items, would there be any side effects?  What if vanilla NPCs wear the keyworded clothes?

[TrollAutokill]

7 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Does anyone have any idea how the mod interacts with custom races? I just set up a monstergirl modlist and they seem to get enslaved properly (for the most part) but I haven't tried training or anything in depth yet. Has anyone else done this? @TrollAutokill Any idea how the personality system is gonna react to those?

It will not recognize the new race if it doesn't have the basic race name in it. The way races are recognized is done using the race name string and looking for race names into it.

 

For example "Monster Nord Girl"  or "zNord" would be recognised as "Nord". "zWood Elf" would be recognised as "Wood Elf" but "Wood zElf" would not be recognised at all.

 

If you ask nicely and provide traits bonus/malus I can just add your string of choice to be recognised.

Edited December 20, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[TrollAutokill]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

How does vanilla Skyrim use these keywords?  If I were to make a patch that applies these keywords to various clothing items, would there be any side effects?  What if vanilla NPCs wear the keyworded clothes?

I think the clothing poor and rich keywords are used for random dialogues in base game. Nothing much.

 

New keywords would be ignored by the base game.

 

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Wall-o'-Text(TM)!

  

On 12/18/2021 at 9:15 AM, Nonseen said:

Thug system not tested

This seems like as good of an excuse as any to bring up something that has been percolating in my mind for a while.  For my part, I know I haven't really contributed much of anything to testing the thug system.  Because there are two things about the current implementation that really put me off of using it.  

 

The first is quite superficial, but also quite central: I just really hate the name "thug".  For one, it doesn't work at all as an honorific—you'd never say something like, "Yes, Thug Jolie," or "Thank you, Thug Marelle."  And it just feels really out of place thematically.  "Thug" evokes associations with street gangs and drug dealers, not fantasy worlds and sexual slavery.  I know from private conversations that I'm not the only person put off by this label, although I wouldn't be shocked if I'm unique in quite the extent to which it bothers me.  After giving it a good deal of consideration, the best alternative I have to propose would be "overseer".  This works much better as an honorific and indeed has precedent as such—"Yes, Overseer Jolie," and "Thank you, Overseer Marelle."  And it fits much better thematically, often having been used in the contexts of slavery in particular and of manual labour in general.  

 

The other issue is one I've raised before, which is that I just really dislike the impact of conducting training on the trainer's personality stats.  (I've been putting off posting more about this for a while, telling myself I'm going to do so when I have the time to include citations for the empirical points, but what the hell, here it is.)  For one, it just isn't realistic.  Human personalities simply don't have that degree of plasticity.  This issue affects a few areas in DoM, but taken together, it's not implausible to end up with a long-serving slave who has half of her stats at 1 or 100.  No human has ever existed with such an extreme personality.  To be realistic, DoM personality shifts would need to be much rarer/more difficult, and they would need to get progressively more rare/difficult still as they approach the extremes, such that a slave that starts with +3σ value one stat would literally never get to the point where they reach the -3σ range, or vice versa.  I completely understand wanting slaves to get better at tasks over time, but that's what training stats are for.  Orgasms don't need to make the slave more open; we have Sex Training for that.  Maybe we should have a Leadership training stat?  It could even be kept hidden for slaves that aren't yet eligible to become Thugs/Overseers or who have never been Thugs/Overssers.  There are problems with the "brain as computer" metaphor, but it has its uses; you can think of the psychometric personality traits as being like the firmware of the mind, whilst the training stats would be the software.  

 

I also just think you're empirically wrong about what stats contribute to being a realistic good leader.  All of the research I've seen on this topic suggests the most important trait should be high conscientiousness, which is by far the best predictor of performance in almost any structured job—Thugs/Overseers are basically middle management.  And higher openness is certainly better than lower.  Lower openness essentially means you're worse at problem solving, which is hardly advantageous.  The evolutionary advantage of lower openness that keeps the trait stable is basically risk aversion.  In the real world, the evidence suggests that higher agreeableness is also more conducive to better performance in leadership/managerial roles—"'You catch more flies with honey' is a sound managerial principle"—but I understand the fantasy world assumptions you have in mind run the other direction on this, and fantasy worlds are famously impervious to evidence. ? I've already spoken at length about honesty in this context, so I won't rehash it all here.

 

Note by the way that, if it weren't for the personality shifts, I wouldn't care so much to argue about this latter aspect—my main issue here is the combined effect of these two systems, which results in my favourite slaves getting worse, from my perspective, over time if I let them serve as Thugs/Overseers.  I still think the easiest placation would be an MCM toggle to make personalities static/unchangeable.  But I would certainly love to see a more robust resolution if it were forthcoming.  

 

---

 

TL;DR

Maybe "thugs" should be called "overseers".

Maybe there should be a "Leadership" training stat.

Maybe the personality traits of a good leader should be different, emphasising high Conscientiousness.

And maybe we should have an MCM toggle to make personalities static/unchangeable.  

[TrollAutokill]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Wall-o'-Text(TM)!

  

This seems like as good of an excuse as any to bring up something that has been percolating in my mind for a while.  For my part, I know I haven't really contributed much of anything to testing the thug system.  Because there are two things about the current implementation that really put me off of using it.  

 

The first is quite superficial, but also quite central: I just really hate the name "thug".  For one, it doesn't work at all as an honorific—you'd never say something like, "Yes, Thug Jolie," or "Thank you, Thug Marelle."  And it just feels really out of place thematically.  "Thug" evokes associations with street gangs and drug dealers, not fantasy worlds and sexual slavery.  I know from private conversations that I'm not the only person put off by this label, although I wouldn't be shocked if I'm unique in quite the extent to which it bothers me.  After giving it a good deal of consideration, the best alternative I have to propose would be "overseer".  This works much better as an honorific and indeed has precedent as such—"Yes, Overseer Jolie," and "Thank you, Overseer Marelle."  And it fits much better thematically, often having been used in the contexts of slavery in particular and of manual labour in general.  

 

The other issue is one I've raised before, which is that I just really dislike the impact of conducting training on the trainer's personality stats.  (I've been putting off posting more about this for a while, telling myself I'm going to do so when I have the time to include citations for the empirical points, but what the hell, here it is.)  For one, it just isn't realistic.  Human personalities simply don't have that degree of plasticity.  This issue affects a few areas in DoM, but taken together, it's not implausible to end up with a long-serving slave who has half of her stats at 1 or 100.  No human has ever existed with such an extreme personality.  To be realistic, DoM personality shifts would need to be much rarer/more difficult, and they would need to get progressively more rare/difficult still as they approach the extremes, such that a slave that starts with +3σ value one stat would literally never get to the point where they reach the -3σ range, or vice versa.  I completely understand wanting slaves to get better at tasks over time, but that's what training stats are for.  Orgasms don't need to make the slave more open; we have Sex Training for that.  Maybe we should have a Leadership training stat?  It could even be kept hidden for slaves that aren't yet eligible to become Thugs/Overseers or who have never been Thugs/Overssers.  There are problems with the "brain as computer" metaphor, but it has its uses; you can think of the psychometric personality traits as being like the firmware of the mind, whilst the training stats would be the software.  

 

I also just think you're empirically wrong about what stats contribute to being a realistic good leader.  All of the research I've seen on this topic suggests the most important trait should be high conscientiousness, which is by far the best predictor of performance in almost any structured job—Thugs/Overseers are basically middle management.  And higher openness is certainly better than lower.  Lower openness essentially means you're worse at problem solving, which is hardly advantageous.  The evolutionary advantage of lower openness that keeps the trait stable is basically risk aversion.  In the real world, the evidence suggests that higher agreeableness is also more conducive to better performance in leadership/managerial roles—"'You catch more flies with honey' is a sound managerial principle"—but I understand the fantasy world assumptions you have in mind run the other direction on this, and fantasy worlds are famously impervious to evidence. ? I've already spoken at length about honesty in this context, so I won't rehash it all here.

 

Note by the way that, if it weren't for the personality shifts, I wouldn't care so much to argue about this latter aspect—my main issue here is the combined effect of these two systems, which results in my favourite slaves getting worse, from my perspective, over time if I let them serve as Thugs/Overseers.  I still think the easiest placation would be an MCM toggle to make personalities static/unchangeable.  But I would certainly love to see a more robust resolution if it were forthcoming.  

 

---

 

TL;DR

Maybe "thugs" should be called "overseers".

Maybe there should be a "Leadership" training stat.

Maybe the personality traits of a good leader should be different, emphasising high Conscientiousness.

And maybe we should have an MCM toggle to make personalities static/unchangeable.  

I don't like the thug term neither, but overseer sounds way out of place to me. Since this is just cosmetic, what about something in the line of Sire/Lady or Master/Mistress but not those ones since they are reserved for the player. I already changed notifications to "slavers" rather than "thugs" for next version.

 

Leadership training stats is not coming soon.

 

Personality traits of good leader is based on research on bullies and their leaders: low honesty and low openness. Other traits for leaders to be considered are agreeable and conscientiousness and the corresponding facets are wilful, smart, dominant and bold. This can be discussed. I am not against swapping agreeable for conscientiousness. For the moment the only facet in is smart (linked to openness) which means machiavelian (calculative and conservative).

 

The toggle will be in the MCM debug page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[pinky6225]

Pimp/Madam might work for the thug name although both are more associated with prostitution

 

If you wanted to go roman you could go with Vilicus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilicus

 

Although as you have to free them (each time i used it) maybe libertus / feminine liberta as apparently that was the term for a slave that had been freed

[Antiope_Apollonia]

3 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

I don't like the thug term neither, but overseer sounds way out of place to me.

How so?  Definition #1: (historical) The manager of a plantation of slaves.  Including the quotation, "It is often deemed advisable to knock a man slave down, in order to tie him, but it is considered cowardly and inexcusable, in an overseer, thus to deal with a woman."

Further, notice the most frequent topic associated with "overseer" in the iWeb English Corups,

Spoiler

Or browse the concordance lines from the Corpus of Historical American English for numerous examples:

Spoiler

If you don't like "overseer", okay, but it's definitely not out of place.  I can't come up with any other word that's more thematically appropriate in the English language, and I've been ruminating on this for a while now.  You could use loanwords like Vilicus, but most people simply won't recognise them (plus that'll create gender issues).  

 

3 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Personality traits of good leader is based on research on bullies and their leaders

Not familiar with literature on leadership among bullies—do you have a particular paper(s) to point to?—but setting aside that I can't imagine that to be an extensive body of research, using childhood bullies as a model for slave trainers is a massive stretch at best.  Without even seeing the studies, I can also say there's quite likely a strong sampling effect there, too, in that you're looking for leaders among a very specific subdemographic that will have a very atypical distribution of personality traits to begin with.  

 

It'd be much more apropos to look at the research on leadership among construction foremen, middle management type jobs, etc., and there, it's clear that low openness is definitely not an asset.  I'd be happy to challenge your fondness for Machiavelli, too, but just granting that Machiavellian is a good model for the moment, when you think about the traits of a Machiavellian character, they're also definitely not low-openness.  Creativity/craftiness and problem solving are strongly associated with high openness.  Slaves with low openness would be good for repetitive manual tasks like mining or field labour or the like—basically because they wouldn't get bored or distracted as easily—but you'd still want to put moderate- to high-openness slaves in charge of the mines or fields.  

 

3 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

The toggle will be in the MCM debug page.

Looking forward to it! ?

Edited December 20, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[TrollAutokill]

Version 2.3.4 is out. It should have been 2.3.3 if I had copied the right scripts.

 

 - MCM debug menu to deactivate personality drift with PTSD, orgasms and training.

 - Zaz and SL aroused keywords recognized as ClothingShame and ClothingSexy.

 - Dialogues to clean factions or force clone save for corresponding debug options.

 

[HannoJojo]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

Version 2.3.4 is out. It should have been 2.3.3 if I had copied the right scripts.

 

 - MCM debug menu to deactivate personality drift with PTSD, orgasms and training.

 - Zaz and SL aroused keywords recognized as ClothingShame and ClothingSexy.

 - Dialogues to clean factions or force clone save for corresponding debug options.

 

Thank you for the quick follow-up update. Not of the biggest importance, just wanted to mention that the version in the installer is still 2.3.2. Obviously that shouldn't really affect anyone, but just noticed it during the installation.

MCM is working as intended now too.

Edited December 20, 2021 by HannoJojo

[TrollAutokill]

Version 2.4.0 is out

 

 - Same as 2.3.4 but for PAHE 8.0.6

 

[TrollAutokill]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

 

It'd be much more apropos to look at the research on leadership among construction foremen, middle management type jobs, etc., and there, it's clear that low openness is definitely not an asset.  I'd be happy to challenge your fondness for Machiavelli, too, but just granting that Machiavellian is a good model for the moment, when you think about the traits of a Machiavellian character, they're also definitely not low-openness.  Creativity/craftiness and problem solving are strongly associated with high openness.  Slaves with low openness would be good for repetitive manual tasks like mining or field labour or the like—basically because they wouldn't get bored or distracted as easily—but you'd still want to put moderate- to high-openness slaves in charge of the mines or fields.  

 

Looking forward to it! ?

Low openness it is and this is the kind of leaders we want for this mod. Slavers, not construction managers. But you can make your own version of the scripts it's in pahslave.psc and DOMGenerator.psc look for getDefaultMasterModifier()

 

And here is an example on how to compile,

 

"Papyrus Compiler\PapyrusCompiler.exe" "X:\MO2\mods\Diary Of Mine\scripts\source\pahslave.psc" -f="Papyrus Compiler\TESV_Papyrus_Flags.flg" -i="Data\scripts\Source;" -o="X:\\MO2\mods\Diary Of Mine\scripts\Compiled"

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[Kalysto]

I don't know if it's common knowledge by now, but I believe I just figured out why Zaz animations were played in SL, when I had specifically excluded them from the pool.

 

It seems that if the slave has zaz cuffs or other zaz equipment, then SL will only start zaz animations (which are outdated and glitchy). So I think finally I figured out why that happened, that was extremelly annoying to me so I wanted to share that finding in case is useful for anyone else.

 

On another note, regarding to DoM:

 

- Loving Slaves: I think they fall inlove too fast, it may be better (for playability) if they could only fall inlove after their submission and resignation stats are over 80 at least. And since love is a fickle emotion, it tastes better when happens rarely.

[Gukahn]

19 minutes ago, Kalysto said:

It seems that if the slave has zaz cuffs or other zaz equipment, then SL will only start zaz animations (which are outdated and glitchy). So I think finally I figured out why that happened, that was extremelly annoying to me so I wanted to share that finding in case is useful for anyone else.

 

... Over a year since i do skyrim again and now someone tells me that? ? So i either have to use DD or i just conjure me some Armbinder if a scene starts ? In Either case, thank you, now i know ^^

[pinky6225]

Moved to DoM 2.4.0 from 2.3.3 but i'm getting PAHSlave SexlabAnimatingFaction detected as None pop up every few seconds

 

[TrollAutokill]

59 minutes ago, Kalysto said:

I don't know if it's common knowledge by now, but I believe I just figured out why Zaz animations were played in SL, when I had specifically excluded them from the pool.

 

It seems that if the slave has zaz cuffs or other zaz equipment, then SL will only start zaz animations (which are outdated and glitchy). So I think finally I figured out why that happened, that was extremelly annoying to me so I wanted to share that finding in case is useful for anyone else.

 

On another note, regarding to DoM:

 

- Loving Slaves: I think they fall inlove too fast, it may be better (for playability) if they could only fall inlove after their submission and resignation stats are over 80 at least. And since love is a fickle emotion, it tastes better when happens rarely.

I agree it's a bit too fast right now.

[Nonseen]

25 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

Moved to DoM 2.4.0 from 2.3.3 but i'm getting PAHSlave SexlabAnimatingFaction detected as None pop up every few seconds

as i started my testrun in PAHE 8.0.6 ige simimal message in my case no dom installed or any other pahe mod.

[pinky6225]

3 minutes ago, Nonseen said:

as i started my testrun in PAHE 8.0.6 ige simimal message in my case no dom installed or any other pahe mod.

 

Weird since i have 8.0.6 PAH and putting 2.3.3 DoM back in the message goes away, was only with 2.40 DoM that it appears

[Nonseen]

18 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

Weird since i have 8.0.6 PAH and putting 2.3.3 DoM back in the message goes away, was only with 2.40 DoM that it appears

intresting.

hmm you too using SL Anim loader?
i thinking maybe this one has anime faction. tand some how think linked togedher. if you not installed on your test SL anim loader i not have to do testrun not using it.