devious skyrim Unforgiving Devices

[ihatemykite]

6 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

stopquest zadquest
resetquest zadquest
I believe similar papyrus functions can be called to do the same job, something like libs.stop() and libs.reset() since libs is zadquest itself. - Yes there is but I think that would create problems, because calling it while the quest is not ready yet may create some problem.

Peculiar sight though, before(left) and after(right). But workaround definitely works with minor quirks. - Did you start a new game with UD? Because there should certainly be the patched scripts like the ones I showed. Or try to place UD on the end of the mod order.

 

[BreadDain]

24 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Yes there is but I think that would create problems, because calling it while the quest is not ready yet may create some problem.

They are bool functions as far I can see. But that's none of my concern already, hope it would be possible to fix midgame install
 

26 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Did you start a new game with UD? Because there should certainly be the patched scripts like the ones I showed. Or try to place UD on the end of the mod order.

No, started it without it, then installed one (bug happened) and made a save. Then - reset quest and saved again, and posted both save files in the same screenshot. Patched scripts are there in both screenshots (did you miss them?), just in different position. UD is always at the end of my LO. My point is that scripts are there in both situations, the difference is only in Form size (it got compacted?) and memory pointers.

[ihatemykite]

1 hour ago, BreadDain said:

No, started it without it, then installed one (bug happened) and made a save. Then - reset quest and saved again, and posted both save files in the same screenshot. Patched scripts are there in both screenshots (did you miss them?), just in different position. UD is always at the end of my LO. My point is that scripts are there in both situations, the difference is only in Form size (it got compacted?) and memory pointers.

Sorry, I overlooked it. Anyway, the reason why there are 2 kinds of script is because there are instances attached to this script. For that reason, it had to keep it. Any new instances will use the patched script.

[shiftbitlogic]

I just wanted to come here and say that I am very impressed with the progress of this mod. It is a lot of fun and very immersive in terms of making the restraints something a player genuinely has to work around, rather than just immediately scramble to get them off, or be stuck.

 

If I may be so bold as to ask for a feature, I would love to see the ability to select a device that you want to struggle against, examine or otherwise interact with. (Rather than leaving the action key be forced to decide which one you should be struggling against.) I ask for this because right now, I seem to be having a hard time getting the mod to recognize devices that were added to my player. (The action key isn't working. >.> and the options in the inventory seem to be the standard DD options, so this might be a load order thing, I am investigating.)
 

EDIT: Definitely a load order issue. The action button not responding has been resolved.

Edited March 23, 2022 by shiftbitlogic

[BreadDain]

37 minutes ago, shiftbitlogic said:

I just wanted to come here and say that I am very impressed with the progress of this mod. It is a lot of fun and very immersive in terms of making the restraints something a player genuinely has to work around, rather than just immediately scramble to get them off, or be stuck.

 

If I may be so bold as to ask for a feature, I would love to see the ability to select a device that you want to struggle against, examine or otherwise interact with. (Rather than leaving the action key be forced to decide which one you should be struggling against.) I ask for this because right now, I seem to be having a hard time getting the mod to recognize devices that were added to my player. (The action key isn't working. >.> and the options in the inventory seem to be the standard DD options, so this might be a load order thing, I am investigating.)

If you click any device from your inventory the mod will remember it for a hotkey use. It is not forced, it always uses previously selected device unless you had none and were equipped with arm restraints, then it will pick them instead.

[ihatemykite]

19 hours ago, shiftbitlogic said:

I just wanted to come here and say that I am very impressed with the progress of this mod. It is a lot of fun and very immersive in terms of making the restraints something a player genuinely has to work around, rather than just immediately scramble to get them off, or be stuck.

 

If I may be so bold as to ask for a feature, I would love to see the ability to select a device that you want to struggle against, examine or otherwise interact with. (Rather than leaving the action key be forced to decide which one you should be struggling against.) I ask for this because right now, I seem to be having a hard time getting the mod to recognize devices that were added to my player. (The action key isn't working. >.> and the options in the inventory seem to be the standard DD options, so this might be a load order thing, I am investigating.)
 

EDIT: Definitely a load order issue. The action button not responding has been resolved.

You most likely place the patch before the main mode in load order. Also, you said that action button problem was solved, but does everything else work fine?

[Clockwinding]

Good news, updating to 206b solved my arousal time rate problem somehow.

Bad news, the "shiny rare armbinder" is completely fucked up -> inventory item rendered, script item rendered, but no idle+i can still act as if hands were unbound (equip weapon or spells and hit/cast them). It's one of the rare restraints that can pop up when eating regular goo.

[BreadDain]

1 minute ago, Clockwinding said:

Good news, updating to 206b solved my arousal time rate problem somehow.

Bad news, the "shiny rare armbinder" is completely fucked up -> inventory item rendered, script item rendered, but no idle+i can still act as if hands were unbound (equip weapon or spells and hit/cast them). It's one of the rare restraints that can pop up when eating regular goo.

It is probably the same issue I've described above, midgame beta 6 update breaks animations. Try to execute stopquest zadquest and then resetquest zadquest commands in console. Might get a little quirky but should work otherwise, preferably get rid of all equipped devices first since it restarts DD framework.

[Clockwinding]

34 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

It is probably the same issue I've described above, midgame beta 6 update breaks animations. Try to execute stopquest zadquest and then resetquest zadquest commands in console. Might get a little quirky but should work otherwise, preferably get rid of all equipped devices first since it restarts DD framework.

I'll try that, but i'm not sure that's the issue because other devices work just fine. I always make a brand new game when UD updates too. Also, that particular device was already broken in the previous version when something was changed on it (wasn't broken in 204).

Edited March 24, 2022 by Clockwinding

[ihatemykite]

12 minutes ago, Clockwinding said:

I'll try that, but i'm not sure that's the issue because other devices work just fine. I always make a brand new game when UD updates too. Also, that particular device was already broken in the previous version when something was changed on it (wasn't broken in 204).

So other hand restrain work? Shiny armbinder is the same as every other device. I also didn't edit it. I only changed its texture to make it blue. Otherwise, it should work the same. I think I'm going to disable the bound animation check. It's too buggy. And it's only the second part of the whole check, so it should technically still work but less buggy.

[shiftbitlogic]

6 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

You most likely place the patch before the main mode in load order. Also, you said that action button problem was solved, but does everything else work fine?

So far, it seems to... although, I would have to double check the "active effects" on various restraints... I was having some trouble with the effect not falling off when the device was removed. I will update if it becomes a reproducible problem.

 

That said, having the ability to select a device to struggle out of with the "action key" would be insanely helpful... rather than having to open the inventory every time.

[Clockwinding]

2 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

So other hand restrain work? Shiny armbinder is the same as every other device. I also didn't edit it. I only changed its texture to make it blue. Otherwise, it should work the same. I think I'm going to disable the bound animation check. It's too buggy. And it's only the second part of the whole check, so it should technically still work but less buggy.

Wait, you said blue? from the goo, all devices are ok except:

weak abadon yoke -> inventory device is iron yoke, rendered device is steel yoke. 

shiny armbinder -> not working properly, and shiny black (not blue)

[shiftbitlogic]

2 hours ago, shiftbitlogic said:

So far, it seems to... although, I would have to double check the "active effects" on various restraints... I was having some trouble with the effect not falling off when the device was removed. I will update if it becomes a reproducible problem.

 

That said, having the ability to select a device to struggle out of with the "action key" would be insanely helpful... rather than having to open the inventory every time.

 

 

So, one thing concerns me... I got restrained in High Security Irons and Shackles... with no way out but to get the key or a Blacksmith, which is fine... But these particular devices, were not Sentient, yet, they kept tying me up.... Like I would literally struggle and finally get them untied, and less than a minute later they tied me again. Are they supposed to be THAT aggressive? Especially given that they are not sentient?

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by shiftbitlogic

[itami_no_hana]

The new update has introduced the option of some rope devices to tie up the player and I don't think it's working for some reason.

My character was equipped with rope arm cuffs (unattached) which started to tie up player (I had notification of that) but the animation didn't change. I can't equip clothes because I have a message that my arms are tied but I can use fists in combat state with no restrictions. Repatching and reactivating the device didn't do anything. Does this feature bug only in my setup or it's a common issue?

[ihatemykite]

15 hours ago, shiftbitlogic said:

That said, having the ability to select a device to struggle out of with the "action key" would be insanely helpful... rather than having to open the inventory every time.

What do you mean? Like some UI which shows only devices?

14 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

Wait, you said blue? from the goo, all devices are ok except:

weak abadon yoke -> inventory device is iron yoke, rendered device is steel yoke. 

shiny armbinder -> not working properly, and shiny black (not blue)

I changed the yoke from steel to iron. I have no idea how it shows steel yoke to you. Shiny armbinder texture should be blue, but its possible that it shows other color on different graphic setting (maybe i forgot again to generate mipmaps). But yoke should have iron yoke model. I even downloaded the b6 to test it and it work for me. Do you possible have some mod which changes the model?

Also, regarding the idle state. This looks like the same issue which people mentioned earlier. I have disabled it for now so hopefully the issue should be no more.

13 hours ago, shiftbitlogic said:

 

 

So, one thing concerns me... I got restrained in High Security Irons and Shackles... with no way out but to get the key or a Blacksmith, which is fine... But these particular devices, were not Sentient, yet, they kept tying me up.... Like I would literally struggle and finally get them untied, and less than a minute later they tied me again. Are they supposed to be THAT aggressive? Especially given that they are not sentient?

 

I forgot to change their cooldown, so they were too overpowered. I have greatly increased it and also added cooldown check, so they should activate only after 50% of cooldown pass. I also forget to add cooldown reset on them so if you untie them the cooldown will not reset, which means it can instantly tie the actor again.

6 hours ago, itami_no_hana said:

The new update has introduced the option of some rope devices to tie up the player and I don't think it's working for some reason.

My character was equipped with rope arm cuffs (unattached) which started to tie up player (I had notification of that) but the animation didn't change. I can't equip clothes because I have a message that my arms are tied but I can use fists in combat state with no restrictions. Repatching and reactivating the device didn't do anything. Does this feature bug only in my setup or it's a common issue?

Same issue as mention few times earlier. Should be fixed in next update. I will also add the bound animation to debug fix, so the user can reset it manually.

[Clockwinding]

38 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

 

I changed the yoke from steel to iron. I have no idea how it shows steel yoke to you. Shiny armbinder texture should be blue, but its possible that it shows other color on different graphic setting (maybe i forgot again to generate mipmaps). But yoke should have iron yoke model. I even downloaded the b6 to test it and it work for me. Do you possible have some mod which changes the model?

Also, regarding the idle state. This looks like the same issue which people mentioned earlier. I have disabled it for now so hopefully the issue should be no more.

Here are some screencaps to show the yoke thing and the wrong armbinder color.

Although, when i added a rare shiny armbinder to my inventory with additem and equipped it manually, i didn't get the problem and it functioned properly as an armbinder. Only happened to me when it was equipped by black goo.

 

Spoiler

edit:  the regular abadon yoke has the same issue as the weak one, exact same overrides from UD DD patch.

For the color, looks like the "default" texture references a texture set that's tied to the regular black ebonite diffuse map, instead of your blue one.

 

Note that i'm using the latest version of your mod out of the box, nothing except its own included patches overwrite it.

Spoiler

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Clockwinding

[ihatemykite]

1 hour ago, Clockwinding said:

Here are some screencaps to show the yoke thing and the wrong armbinder color.

Although, when i added a rare shiny armbinder to my inventory with additem and equipped it manually, i didn't get the problem and it functioned properly as an armbinder. Only happened to me when it was equipped by black goo.

 

  Hide contents

 

Which patch do you use??

Edit: Found the issue. All BRRF Patches except for one had the yoke set wrong. But because the iron yoke doesn't have BRRF variant, I just removed it.

Also fixed the issue with blue armbinder. As you said, it was using wrong texture.

Edited March 25, 2022 by ihatemykite

[shiftbitlogic]

4 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

What do you mean? Like some UI which shows only devices?

 

Devious Lore actually did this, which is where I got the idea. When in game, pressing the action key does a quick scan of the restraints that are on the player, (I do not know how it was implemented, but seeing as you already keep track of them... perhaps you can use that list?)

It then divides them up into their categories. (Head, Body, Arm, Leg)

Finally, it allows you to select the device you want to work with. (cuffs, collar, gag, blindfold, etc.)

 

The menu could proceed in this manner:
"Select the device you wish to interact with..." --> ["Head" / "Body" / "Arms" / "Legs" / "Cancel" / Etc.] --> "Which Head device did you wish to interact with?" --> ["Hood" / "Blindfold" / "Gag" / "Collar" / "Go Back"] --> "How would you like to interact with this device?" --> ["Struggle (Uselessly)" / "Special" / "Examine" / "Go Back" / Etc.]

 

Devious Lore also took into consideration that certain devices could not be removed until others had been removed... e.g. You cannot remove a blindfold if you have a hood on, or cannot struggle with your gloves while wearing an armbinder, etc.

 

These "layers" could be achieved with a priority system such as assigning each type of restraint a priority and location. Hood -> 2H , Gag -> 1H, so you cannot remove a 1H until all 2H are removed. This could even then be expanded at a later date to simulate the idea of layering devices.... DD does not support that as only one item is permitted per slot, but it could be simulated through the use of an outside source like papyrus. (Store the order restraints were applied and as they are removed, re-apply the one "under" them, until there are no more to remove and the player is free.)

 

I know this is a lot, but hopefully it will give you some ideas for future features. Keep up the good work!

[ihatemykite]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:19 PM, shiftbitlogic said:

 

Devious Lore actually did this, which is where I got the idea. When in game, pressing the action key does a quick scan of the restraints that are on the player, (I do not know how it was implemented, but seeing as you already keep track of them... perhaps you can use that list?)

It then divides them up into their categories. (Head, Body, Arm, Leg)

Finally, it allows you to select the device you want to work with. (cuffs, collar, gag, blindfold, etc.)

 

The menu could proceed in this manner:
"Select the device you wish to interact with..." --> ["Head" / "Body" / "Arms" / "Legs" / "Cancel" / Etc.] --> "Which Head device did you wish to interact with?" --> ["Hood" / "Blindfold" / "Gag" / "Collar" / "Go Back"] --> "How would you like to interact with this device?" --> ["Struggle (Uselessly)" / "Special" / "Examine" / "Go Back" / Etc.]

I see. That can be done, but the question is if it really will be faster than opening inventory. I think I would prefer to use UIExtensions to add new list menu. It would be nicer than clicking through a bunch of menus.

On 3/25/2022 at 8:19 PM, shiftbitlogic said:

Devious Lore also took into consideration that certain devices could not be removed until others had been removed... e.g. You cannot remove a blindfold if you have a hood on, or cannot struggle with your gloves while wearing an armbinder, etc.

 

These "layers" could be achieved with a priority system such as assigning each type of restraint a priority and location. Hood -> 2H , Gag -> 1H, so you cannot remove a 1H until all 2H are removed. This could even then be expanded at a later date to simulate the idea of layering devices.... DD does not support that as only one item is permitted per slot, but it could be simulated through the use of an outside source like papyrus. (Store the order restraints were applied and as they are removed, re-apply the one "under" them, until there are no more to remove and the player is free.)

 

I know this is a lot, but hopefully it will give you some ideas for future features. Keep up the good work!

I implemented something similar in b6. Every device have accessibility. This accessibility change with different devices. Example: Gags have reduced accessibility when wearing hoods, catsuit have reduced accessibility when wearing cuffs and collar. Mittens reduce accessibility of devices. And heavy bondage always have accessibility 100% because your hands are always in contact with them. Of course, I could make it more extreme by making the devices unstruggable, but I think that would be boring. I want to allow users to choose how they want to progress. If they want to struggle from gag while hooded, even thought it's less effective, it's their choice. And it may also be the only choice if the hood is inescapable.

[shiftbitlogic]

16 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

I see. That can be done, but the question is if it really will be faster than opening inventory. I think I would prefer to use UIExtensions to add new list menu. It would be nicer than clicking through a bunch of menus.

Thanks for the prompt reply! I am honestly not sure I would recognize the differences of UIE if I saw it. But yea I agree, one drawback was the constant clicking through of the menus, it works, but it can be tedious, especially if each menu requires a search of the devices in question. It would be significantly more efficient to get that information a different way or store it somewhere, so that it can be readily recalled. Even better if that functionality could translate to reading the devices that other mods place on the player.

 

If I knew more about how Skyrim interacted with Papyrus or FISSes, I would look into keeping that list of active devices (and their meta data) stored there. I mean realistically, devices do not get added and removed in rapid succession except during pre-defined scripted events, like quest start or completion. ( I am at least pretty sure any array or stack style data structure could store the information necessary to implement layering. (You just wouldn't ever be able to see the devices on the player at the same time, given there aren't textures for such things.)

 

16 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

I implemented something similar in b6. Every device have accessibility. This accessibility change with different devices. Example: Gags have reduced accessibility when wearing hoods, catsuit have reduced accessibility when wearing cuffs and collar. Mittens reduce accessibility of devices. And heavy bondage always have accessibility 100% because your hands are always in contact with them. Of course, I could make it more extreme by making the devices unstruggable, but I think that would be boring. I want to allow users to choose how they want to progress. If they want to struggle from gag while hooded, even thought it's less effective, it's their choice. And it may also be the only choice if the hood is inescapable.

I do enjoy the freedom that is afforded to the player to attempt to struggle, even if the effort is effectively futile.

 

One thing that I noticed regarding the crits... (and the struggle games generally) ... They seem to be heavily affected by script load. Consequently, some crits can trigger out of sync with the indicator flash, leading to a window for success so small that they are essentially more detrimental than beneficial. (My only thought would be, to prevent a crit from firing before the game has "started" would it make sense to offer a struggle dialog? "You start to <action> against <device>" --> [OK] (That might give the UI some time to load up properly.)

[ihatemykite]

20 minutes ago, shiftbitlogic said:

If I knew more about how Skyrim interacted with Papyrus or FISSes, I would look into keeping that list of active devices (and their meta data) stored there. I mean realistically, devices do not get added and removed in rapid succession except during pre-defined scripted events, like quest start or completion. ( I am at least pretty sure any array or stack style data structure could store the information necessary to implement layering. (You just wouldn't ever be able to see the devices on the player at the same time, given there aren't textures for such things.)

This is exactly how my mod registers devices. Every NPC slot have array of size 25. Every time a device is locked, it gets saved in the array. BUT this only works if the NPC is also registered, and so the amount is limited. So getting the devices to show them would be the smaller problem. Bigger problem is how it should be shown.

 

22 minutes ago, shiftbitlogic said:

One thing that I noticed regarding the crits... (and the struggle games generally) ... They seem to be heavily affected by script load. Consequently, some crits can trigger out of sync with the indicator flash, leading to a window for success so small that they are essentially more detrimental than beneficial. (My only thought would be, to prevent a crit from firing before the game has "started" would it make sense to offer a struggle dialog? "You start to <action> against <device>" --> [OK] (That might give the UI some time to load up properly.)

I can already hear someone complaining that they don't want the option to be removed because they don't wanna to click it. I can add some delay before the crit loop starts to process the crits (like 1s should be enough time) so everything is loaded properly. Regarding the UI, there is not really much to do. The way the UI is implemented in the game is making me go insane, and I don't ever want to tough that again. It would be easier to just add 3 new widgets and use them instead of vanilla HUD bars. Also there is auto crit option if you don't know. This makes the crits to trigger automatically with some chance which you can set in MCM (default is 80%, so there is 80% chance that crit will be successful when it appears).

[BreadDain]

(Minor) Forcing follower to pick up Abadon plug (and making her compel) produces player-related message, not target related.
Hitting critical during lockpicking struggle minigame, when helping follower, does nothing. Critical is registered and only affects failure to hit in timegap.

Spoiler

Callstack goes brrrr

 

Selecting Abadon plug from follower inventory always produces initial equip message. (wait I actually was managed to snatch and equip inventory device somehow)
Plug "Charge" functionality doesn't work on followers, menu closes before soulgem selection.

That's as far as I could go with follower before breaking game. Prolly lockpicking screwed me over, but UD/game became unresponsive
Attempt 2:

Follower cannot resist orgasm animation while crouching, it also bugs her idle/state to be constantly animating orgasm, can't procees struggling from any other devices after that (game tells "She is doing something") EDIT: state glitch applicable for both PC and NPC, resisting orgasm with crouching doesn't allow struggling for PC either.
Gagged NPCs still talk and don't "Mmmmph"? Not sure if it is on UD and not on DD in general.
Device hider also doesn't work on NPCs, but again, not sure if it is on UD.
MCM save settings function doesn't store Abadon Plug category and partially - Custom devices category, widget related and update time stuff.
Abadon Yoke appearance (render/inventory) model still differs.
Not sure what was going on, but when I tried damaging harness with help of hostile werewolf, it didn't even scratch any of devices, although managed to bring me down in 2 hits.
Poor mod response time/delay during plug struggle/cutting minigames, where player need to spam special button. Worse than in beta 5. Sometimes it takes long enough that even Health/magicka bars fade out during minigame.

Cutting tool calculation is incorrect (Valdr's dagger is the best):

Spoiler

QOL suggestions:
follower key allows quick access to her inventory
add short effect of faint glow to character body respective to health/magicka/stamina critical triggers, so player is not always forced to stare into ui and can observe the beauty of her body struggling while able to play minigame properly at the same time. Something like Imperious mod AV buffs for Imperial race (green glow, stamina boost):

Spoiler

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by BreadDain

[itami_no_hana]

New update 2.0b7 seems to break things. After updating the MCM menu for UD doesn't load (it's blank) and any DD device I try to equip doesn't work - equips only in inventory, no visible animation or item, no device options.

Before updating I disabled previous version in MO and cleaned save with Falrim Tools. Saving and loading doesn't make any difference 

[Clockwinding]

37 minutes ago, itami_no_hana said:

New update 2.0b7 seems to break things. After updating the MCM menu for UD doesn't load (it's blank) and any DD device I try to equip doesn't work - equips only in inventory, no visible animation or item, no device options.

Before updating I disabled previous version in MO and cleaned save with Falrim Tools. Saving and loading doesn't make any difference 

You should keep your previous file on 20b6, and make a fresh file for 20b7. the mod isn't really update friendly with its active development.

[shiftbitlogic]

3 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

This is exactly how my mod registers devices. Every NPC slot have array of size 25. Every time a device is locked, it gets saved in the array. BUT this only works if the NPC is also registered, and so the amount is limited. So getting the devices to show them would be the smaller problem. Bigger problem is how it should be shown.

Honestly, I am not sure you would be able to because of the way skyrim is set up. It only shows the item in that slot, and only allows one item per slot. (Unfortunately, there is no such mechanism that can "accept multiple items, and then dynamically and effectively convert them into a single item with a single mesh". Which would mean that for every combination of items, you would have to have a dedicated mesh.) I believe when DD was first created Kimy played around with the corset/belt displaying a unified mesh, but ultimately abandoned the idea because it was too much of a headache. (I could be wrong about the specifics there.)

 

3 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

I can already hear someone complaining that they don't want the option to be removed because they don't wanna to click it. I can add some delay before the crit loop starts to process the crits (like 1s should be enough time) so everything is loaded properly. Regarding the UI, there is not really much to do. The way the UI is implemented in the game is making me go insane, and I don't ever want to tough that again. It would be easier to just add 3 new widgets and use them instead of vanilla HUD bars. Also there is auto crit option if you don't know. This makes the crits to trigger automatically with some chance which you can set in MCM (default is 80%, so there is 80% chance that crit will be successful when it appears).

Yea, there is always going to be someone complaining. I do hope that you have not perceived my comments as such. I have seen the auto crit, and while I appreciate the idea, I enjoy the mod because it removes that "random chance" in favor of something more interactive.

 

 

On an unrelated note... is the mod supposed to consume keys if they are used to unlock a device, or so many locks?
Or is there a chance to break them?
Because it seems like my latest run is getting a single key for each slot and unlocking 5 locks without effort, essentially meaning that keys are extremely powerful. (This is fine, I can adjust the other settings to make them rarer than hell, and not be consumed, but I just wanted to know what I was dealing with.) 

EDIT:  Turns out I have just been stupid lucky. They break as intended.

Edited March 27, 2022 by shiftbitlogic