toys Toys&Love LE & SE

[LinksSword]

The only thing that i find strange is, unlike with DD plugs it doesn't restrict what animations play in Sexlab. I find that a bit immersion breaking.

 

and i wonder if it would be possible to make this work with cum inflation mods such as Fill Her Up to prevent leaking when you are plugged with a toy.

[gregaaz]

36 minutes ago, LinksSword said:

The only thing that i find strange is, unlike with DD plugs it doesn't restrict what animations play in Sexlab. I find that a bit immersion breaking.

 

I think that's in the "feature, not a bug" category. The origins in the mod go back to DD 5.0 preventing Shout Like a Virgin from working right because of how the animation filter worked on it. 

 

36 minutes ago, LinksSword said:

and i wonder if it would be possible to make this work with cum inflation mods such as Fill Her Up to prevent leaking when you are plugged with a toy.

 

Behind the scenes, Toys uses keywords to identify the category of each toy, so if the author of Fill Her Up or any other mod that alters behavior based on Devious Devices being equipped makes their mod aware of Toys keywords, it should be a pretty easy matter to extend that functionality to Toys as well. From the few authors I've spoken to, however, it seems most are waiting till Toys is out of beta before deciding if and what extent they are going to support it.

 

Personally I am really looking forward to Devious Training supporting Toys (hopefully!) as that was a staple of many of my earlier mod lists.

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, LinksSword said:

The only thing that i find strange is, unlike with DD plugs it doesn't restrict what animations play in Sexlab. I find that a bit immersion breaking.

 

58 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

I think that's in the "feature, not a bug" category.

The method DD uses to filter animations is not a design that makes sense. This is because scenes in sexlab are between the content mod and sexlab, so neither Toys nor DD have any right to interfere with that scene, particularly where it's not optional and not wanted. 

 

But that does not mean we are not going to provide an optional alternative to getting the job done. We are! But that will be after we exit beta because its a big deal. Until we do offer such feature, there's nothing at all preventing a content mod, like SLaVE or others, from doing its own filtering, or other methods. SLaVE is already "hiding" inappropriate toys for love scenes.

 

Quote

and i wonder if it would be possible to make this work with cum inflation mods such as Fill Her Up to prevent leaking when you are plugged with a toy.

As Gregaaz said, this requires the Flll Her Up mod to update to support Toys, not the other way around.

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

20 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

The method DD uses to filter animations is not a design that makes sense. This is because scenes in sexlab are between the content mod and sexlab, so neither Toys nor DD have any right to interfere with that scene, particularly where it's not optional and not wanted. 

Just to maybe clarify the issue a bit with an example:

* DD Helpers equips on female pc: a pet collar, a blindfold, piercings and some dd boots (note: no plugs, no chastity belt, no heavy restraints)

* Pet Collar determines that a female follower wants to relieve herself

* Sexlab with OsmelMC tweaks perfectly filters the animations and finds a nice FF animation

* Pet Collar put pc into slot 0 (because it is checked in its mcm)

* DD interferes, and changes the animation to some animation that involves males and resets everything

* PC ends up in the slot 1, no strapons are equipped (probably because of the clit piercing, but I notice that changing animations and strapons don't work that well in general)

* Scene looks stupid

* Player (me) gets salty

 

20 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

But that does not mean we are not going to provide an optional alternative to getting the job done. We are!

 

Awesome! Maybe one can finally insist that gender tags are more important than other tags.

 

20 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

SLaVE is already "hiding" inappropriate toys for love scenes.

I was asking myself whether this shouldn't be a Toys Framework feature, but I'd guess that the animation tags aren't good enough for that.

[VirginMarie]

56 minutes ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

Just to maybe clarify the issue a bit with an example:

Yes there are many examples where DD filter just plain breaks things. In the case of something like the Love Shout for SLaVE where its in combat and thus fast paced, last thing you want is the extra time delay DD creates.

 

58 minutes ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

I was asking myself whether this shouldn't be a Toys Framework feature, but I'd guess that the animation tags aren't good enough for that.

HideToys() is already a Toys feature. That's what SLaVE is using. It's just not auto-tied to Sexlab tags.

 

First we have to sort out our plans with Sexlab. Right now Toys dependency on Sexlab is close to nil, and really only there because it makes sense to share arousal across mods, so the Toys dependency comes from SLA which in turn is tied to Sexlab. But we might want to become "sex animation framework agnostic". There's others. And a whole world called Nexus. And then another approach is to play our own animations. And yet another is to use Sexlab but only its registry and settings, with Toys playing the scene itself. There's lots of approaches that can achieve a better and faster scene.

 

[Black714]

It's "Spontaneous Orgasm" Work for generic or some costume Devious Belt/Plug to? 

I Love Unexpected Non-Consensual Animation from DD but only 5 Animation in total since beginning.

[VirginMarie]

11 minutes ago, Black714 said:

It's "Spontaneous Orgasm" Work for generic or some costume Devious Belt/Plug to? 

I Love Unexpected Non-Consensual Animation from DD but only 5 Animation in total since beginning.

 

I don't understand the question very well.

 

Spontaneous orgasm is triggered by your arousal level. Settings are in MCM, including level, chance, and you can also make arousal increase faster.

 

Since arousal is influenced by other mods, spontaneous orgasm is effected by anything changing arousal, including Toys toys, and DDs. Spontaneous Orgasm can also occur shortly after an orgasm in a sexlab scene.

 

If you want more animations, you need a Toys content mod, like Shout Like a Virgin, not just Toys alone.

 

 

[Black714]

2 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

I don't understand the question very well.

 

Spontaneous orgasm is triggered by your arousal level. Settings are in MCM, including level, chance, and you can also make arousal increase faster.

 

Since arousal is influenced by other mods, spontaneous orgasm is effected by anything changing arousal, including Toys toys, and DDs. Spontaneous Orgasm can also occur shortly after an orgasm in a sexlab scene.

 

If you want more animations, you need a Toys content mod, like Shout Like a Virgin, not just Toys alone.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. I thought it’s triggered by Some specification of device. Or just for toy mod only.
Sorry, English is not my native language ?

[Rubbermatt]

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

There's others. And a whole world called Nexus. And then another approach is to play our own animations. And yet another is to use Sexlab but only its registry and settings, with Toys playing the scene itself. There's lots of approaches that can achieve a better and faster scene.

 

 

For instance the Ostim framework, arousal & defeat modules should be coming in the not too distant future.

[MysticDaedra]

What slots are used by Toys? I'm having a conflict with TAWOBA Remastered... equipping the top bikini part makes the chastity belt disappear, although it is still equipped.

[VirginMarie]

7 minutes ago, MysticDaedra said:

What slots are used by Toys? I'm having a conflict with TAWOBA Remastered... equipping the top bikini part makes the chastity belt disappear, although it is still equipped.

 

The slots are the community standard, set by ZAP/DD from way back. No differences.

 

Try turning off the DD Device Hider if its on and you have DD. Top of the DD MCM tab for that.

 

This is from the Features post under "Making Toys / Handling Toys / API"

 

 

 

[gregaaz]

11 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

What slots are used by Toys? I'm having a conflict with TAWOBA Remastered... equipping the top bikini part makes the chastity belt disappear, although it is still equipped.

 

You may want to ensure that you have one of the versions of TAWOBA that are compatible with Sexlab Survival. The "vanilla" TAWOBA uses its own system of slot assignments for the armor pieces, whereas the SLS compatible versions us the same slots as Toys and Devious Devices.

[MysticDaedra]

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

 

You may want to ensure that you have one of the versions of TAWOBA that are compatible with Sexlab Survival. The "vanilla" TAWOBA uses its own system of slot assignments for the armor pieces, whereas the SLS compatible versions us the same slots as Toys and Devious Devices.

Yes, I'm using the version linked to on the SL survival page. @VirginMarie thanks for that image, that's what I thought but I wanted to be sure. It does look like a TAWOBA Remastered issue, which is strange, given that it is linked-to by the SL Survival author. Let the troubleshooting commence!

 

In the meantime, huge kudos to @VirginMarie. This is superb, very excited to see the future updates and integrations!

[VirginMarie]

Minor Bodyslide Update Released

 

The Bodyslide package, for Toys LE CBBE only, has been updated to v0.7.1. Pulsating Toys - The visual effect you will see on the Scanty Belt and Bitch Boots, was missing for this body. Fixed now

 

Pulsating Toy:

[VirginMarie]

Teaser Videos

 

The next release will be the last beta. Then we exit beta with v1. Here's a few of the new features finishing it off...

 

Gag Signing... No tedious menu clicking. Instead you use sign language.

 

 

 

Blind Falling... Blindfolds already give the blind movement animations. Now there's the consequence of falling when you least expect it.

Chance settings in MCM for running and sprinting, with sprint falling must more frequent.

 

 

[VirginMarie]

Guide - How To Make A Toy Box

 

 

I've added a guide to the Toy Boxes post.

 

No scripting needed, if you'd like to make your own toy box. This could be for personal use, or to publish. 

 

 

[LeRoiDuCaca]

the toy story quest doesnt start even though im on a new save i have all the requirements. Any ideas ?

Or just the name of the quest so that i can force start it. There is only toysframework and toysmcm in the mod quests rn (that i can find at least)

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Lekefeno said:

the toy story quest doesnt start even though im on a new save i have all the requirements. Any ideas ?

Or just the name of the quest so that i can force start it. There is only toysframework and toysmcm in the mod quests rn (that i can find at least)

1. Sounds like Toy Story is not loading at all. You sure it's installed?
2. Do you see Toy Story in the MCM? It should appear as a separate mod.
3. Have you ran the "installation test" in the Toys Setup tab? Does it succeed?

If the answer is yes to all of those, let me see your papyrus log. Need the log for a new game, so just start up the game fresh, new game, let things run for 3min, confirm that Toy Story's quest did not start again, then shut down and grab the log for that. There's a "how to get the log" in the FAQs if you need info on that.

 

[Nazzzgul666]

I didn't really start anything yet, only a new game with toys & story installed... already found a typo though.^^ The journal entry says i should visit Helgan, it should be Helgen though. Except it's refering to another place i'm unaware of?

[VirginMarie]

9 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I didn't really start anything yet, only a new game with toys & story installed... already found a typo though.^^ The journal entry says i should visit Helgan, it should be Helgen though. Except it's refering to another place i'm unaware of?

 

It's now already fixed for next release, smarty pants

 

thanks. Oh and the post you "liked", that feature is done in the next release too (MCM option to turn stripping off for spontaneous orgasm)

[VirginMarie]

Balance Feedback Needed

 

Next release is gong to be the last Beta. In fact I'm tempted to skip that and go directly to an exit from beta, so next release might even be V1. Depends.

 

But either way, I'd love to get some "balancing" type feedback... Are features in the "Goldilocks zone"?... not to hot, not to cold, bust just right?

1. Arousal increase / decrease
2. Frequency of Spontaneous Orgasm - this ties to Arousal, so without it, arousal would be significantly different
3. Frequency of exhausted
4. Time it takes for toy transformation caused by hits in battle
5. Frequency of hardcore bindings - was lowered significantly - please set it to new default if you upgraded before commenting
6. Chance/frequency for Crawl / Blind / Strip
7. Health and Stamina harm, amount and frequency

All of these things can be adjusted in the MCM and I've not mentioned some of them. Really I'm looking for 2 things....

• are they the right defaults?
• do they let you change it up enough?

There will be very different preferences, that's a given, but I still want to hear your thoughts. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

I don't have any balancing feedback, but I fiddled around with creating a toy box for 

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/11270-kziitdfeitshset-bdsmmaid/, I figured you might be interested in feedback for that as well.

 

The most challenging part was to not make minor mistakes, and I failed by putting a wrist toy in the arm FormList,

and I had the body toy proclaim to use slot 32 instead of 58.

These issues were quite hard to pin-point, so I'd like to suggest to add an integrity check functionality for ToyBoxes in the MCM checking

whether Toys are in the wrong FormList or lack the correct slot mask.

 

Aside from that, a non-blocking version of WaitToysLoad would be nice, a CheckToysLoad if you will, for Mod authors to use in their MCM as well.

[VirginMarie]

7 hours ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

I don't have any balancing feedback, but I fiddled around with creating a toy box for 

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/11270-kziitdfeitshset-bdsmmaid/, I figured you might be interested in feedback for that as well.

 

Absolutely! Feedback for anything.

 

Is your toy box going be something you publish?

 

Quote

The most challenging part was to not make minor mistakes, and I failed by putting a wrist toy in the arm FormList,

and I had the body toy proclaim to use slot 32 instead of 58.

These issues were quite hard to pin-point, so I'd like to suggest to add an integrity check functionality for ToyBoxes in the MCM checking

whether Toys are in the wrong FormList or lack the correct slot mask.

 

I admit to making these same mistakes often enough myself, particularly the "wrong slot in the nif" one. But once its bitten you once you tend not to forget its the first thing to check if that toy is showing up invisible.

 

I'd love to be able to do an integrity check but I don't think its possible. There's no papyrus function to look into the nif for your toy and see the partition (slot used). The reason you place your toys in FormLists for each type, is to tell Toys where they belong, and also if you want them exposed to the user. It can't know this on its own, thus it can't integrity check it. Such integrity check would have to check also the armor item, and the armoraddon, both of which cannot be accessed by papyrus.

 

What I CAN do is start building a troubleshooting section. I've already added this to the guide.

 

Quote

Aside from that, a non-blocking version of WaitToysLoad would be nice, a CheckToysLoad if you will, for Mod authors to use in their MCM as well.

 

By not blocking, do you mean return value of true/false, instead of a wait? Easy to include. I'm curious though, to know your use case, so I can make sure I'm understanding and get this right. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by VirginMarie

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

5 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Is your toy box going be something you publish?

 

When it is finished, and if Kziidt gives permission, I'll do so. I'm playing on SE with 3BAv2 and for getting to play around with toyboxes, I took some shortcuts, with some parts of the original SE conversion, fixes in the support thread, used the DD render devices as a starting stone etc.

Then there are bodyslide related issue: I had to fix the clipping of the gloves, I also want to split the piercings from the body to make them their own toys.

All my bodyslide knowledge comes from Sun's excellent tutorials https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZa3v-a_gOrARmZNk7Bo_ntPUZCLVPnSX but unfortunately, I think I would need her to release more episodes for some of the more advanced things. That said, per  coincidence, https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/17865-kziitdfeitshset-bdsm-maid-3ba-bodyslide-conversion/ was just released, so maybe all these issues have been solved there.

 

And then there is the issue of the Gags: Kziidt provided custom DD scripts for the Gags and I haven't gotten around looking into their actual purpose. I fear, the scripts are there to do some MFG-related things, so Toys' MouthOpen Keyword might just no cut it. And my knowledge of MFG is basically that it's bugged on SE and makes characters have stupid facial expressions.

Given the astonishing quality of the whole set, and since I'd probably only support 3BAv2, I'd really like to sort these issues out before asking an artist for their permission: If I was an artist, and somebody would request permissions for a half-assed conversion, I would get angry.

Long story short, I am not satisfied with the current quality and made the ToyBox for another mod I am currently working on, so unfortunately, I don't think solving these issues will be my primary modding focus.

 

Also as a general side-note, I am beyond confused by mod related drama/conflict and appalled by the destructive irrationality displayed in some cases.

While I'd argue that it turned out to be a good thing in the case of Devious Daedra since there is Toys now, the City Bondage debacle just resulted with two mods less on LL, and I'd would like avoid these issues, if were to publish mods.

 

Quote

 

I admit to making these same mistakes often enough myself, particularly the "wrong slot in the nif" one. But once its bitten you once you tend not to forget its the first thing to check if that toy is showing up invisible.

I actually made this mistake only once, because I forgot that I had to change the partition for every mesh in bodyslide. However, since I was aware of the issue in general from back in my Fallout 4 days, I found it rather obvious to conclude what caused the rendering error. The issue that was hard to find, it that I misclicked in xEdit and had the wrong slot in the ARMO entry. Unfortunately, I don't have the logs anymore, so I can't exactly tell you how the framework broke. But since everything works now, I am pretty sure that everything was my fault, and I am happy to tell you that your log entries have been very helpful to pin-point the issues.

 

Quote

 

I'd love to be able to do an integrity check but I don't think its possible. There's no papyrus function to look into the nif for your toy and see the partition (slot used). The reason you place your toys in FormLists for each type, is to tell Toys where they belong, and also if you want them exposed to the user. It can't know this on its own, thus it can't integrity check it. Such integrity check would have to check also the armor item, and the armoraddon, both of which cannot be accessed by papyrus.

 

Maybe that's an SKSE vs. SKEE thing and maybe my code isn't robust, but in the other mod I mentioned above, I did this to track the items that were unequipped by Toys:

Armor toy = Toys.GetToy(modShort, toyType, box)

if toy 

  int slotMask = toy.GetSlotMask()

  form willBeReplaced = PlayerRef.GetWornForm(slotMask)

  int errorCode = Toys.HandleToy(modShort, PlayerRef, toy)

  if errorCode == 1

      ; Note down toy for later removal

      ; Note down old form for re-equipping afterwards

My suggestion is, to iterate over the FormLists and verify that that the result of GetSlotMask matches with the FormList and the Keywords from Toys.

 

Quote

By not blocking, do you mean return value of true/false, instead of a wait? Easy to include. I'm curious though, to know your use case, so I can make sure I'm understanding and get this right. 

Yes, I mean the boolean. The use case is: In my MCM you can select your favorite ToyBox ("box" above), and I would have liked to grey-out/replaced the menu option while Toys is not done with registration.

Thinking about it, I think one could argue, that this setting would be nice to have in the Toys MCM instead, but maybe someone prefers different boxes for different mods.

Edited May 28, 2021 by (\x.x x) (\x.x x)
Typos, formatting, grammar

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

I just remembered, that I wanted to complement you for your efforts on documenting the framework and for the continuously high quality of your code: It was really pleasant to work with it, even the internal ToyLibs was an easy read.

And because everything went so smoothly, I kept on expanding my mod without giving you feedback until, I ran into something, where I suspected you might be able to do better.

Basically, I am sorry: I should've lauded your framework earlier. ?