toys Toys&Love LE & SE

[DayTri]

21 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

If we were doing it for real, I'd be able to dump out the text. Thing is, that loses context so you still need to be familiar with what's happening in game. For Toy Story mercplatypus it taking care of text/story so I don't think you will be finding much, its all ready well taken care of. SLaVE is probably imperfect and would be a huge job. Toys I've not had any scrutiny on but it also does not do quest stuff so its text is limited to the pop up tips, notifications, and the big thing is all the descriptions on the toys. So of all the things, its those toy descriptions, which are also in Classic Toy Box.

 

 

Right now arousal notifications (most notifications really) are very utilitarian. I'm not sure how to give it some lore-ish feel. The thing with notifications is that if you make the text go beyond very short phrases, it becomes that stupid tiny font that is un-readable for many. Right now it just says this...

 

Arousal <increased/decreased> by <99> to <99>

 

Bet you can't make it better!

Oh ya, and you can turn it off in the MCM.

 

You know, I think one reason to avoid a generic parameterized string like that is the way the Skyrim string table works. In my understanding, every string created by a script is put in a table, there is a limit of 65535 such strings. Just with "arousal increased/decreased by X to Y", there are 9,900 possibilities. A player playing long enough could see most of them. That is 15% of total available strings just for arousal increase/decrease, will be more if you add more such messages. Making single detailed strings per device, or only one parameter per string could improve usage a lot.

[VirginMarie]

9 minutes ago, DayTri said:

 

You know, I think one reason to avoid a generic parameterized string like that is the way the Skyrim string table works. In my understanding, every string created by a script is put in a table, there is a limit of 65535 such strings. Just with "arousal increased/decreased by X to Y", there are 9,900 possibilities. A player playing long enough could see most of them. That is 15% of total available strings just for arousal increase/decrease, will be more if you add more such messages. Making single detailed strings per device, or only one parameter per string could improve usage a lot.

 

Really? Could you help me understand this? What is this table? I don't think it would ever be storing a string permanently anyplace. Here's the code...

 

ToysNotify("Arousal " + ArousalChangeType + " by " + ArousalAdj as Int + " to " + Arousal as Int, 1)

Function ToysNotify(String Msg, Int Category=0)
	If Category == 0 || (Category == 1 && MCM.ToysArousalNotify) || (Category == 2 && MCM.ToysEffectNotify) || (Category == 3 && MCM.ToysProtectNotify) 
		Debug.Notification(Msg)
	EndIf
EndFunction

 

[DayTri]

45 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Really? Could you help me understand this? What is this table? I don't think it would ever be storing a string permanently anyplace. Here's the code...

 

ToysNotify("Arousal " + ArousalChangeType + " by " + ArousalAdj as Int + " to " + Arousal as Int, 1)

Function ToysNotify(String Msg, Int Category=0)
	If Category == 0 || (Category == 1 && MCM.ToysArousalNotify) || (Category == 2 && MCM.ToysEffectNotify) || (Category == 3 && MCM.ToysProtectNotify) 
		Debug.Notification(Msg)
	EndIf
EndFunction

 

 

As far as I know, and I could be wrong, this is internal to Papyrus and Skyrim. Basically strings take up a lot of space. Keeping "Bandit" in memory everywhere something is named "Bandit" uses too much RAM. So Skyrim just stores the string as a row in a table, and uses a pointer to check which row contains the string that should be displayed. Every new string created during gameplay will be entered in the table. I believe it is called "string interning", and for Skyrim in particularly you can search "Skyrim String Table Bug", there's an old topic here:

 

So I could be wrong, but my understanding is that ToysNotify will add to this table whenever it is called with new ArousalAdj and Arousal values. Maybe certain strings generated in scripts are not added to the table and it will actually be OK, I am not an expert. But I do know the string table increases in size over time in a save game, so it makes sense that certain strings generated in-game are added to the table.

 

[markdf]

16 minutes ago, DayTri said:

 

As far as I know, and I could be wrong, this is internal to Papyrus and Skyrim. Basically strings take up a lot of space. Keeping "Bandit" in memory everywhere something is named "Bandit" uses too much RAM. So Skyrim just stores the string as a row in a table, and uses a pointer to check which row contains the string that should be displayed. Every new string created during gameplay will be entered in the table. I believe it is called "string interning", and for Skyrim in particularly you can search "Skyrim String Table Bug", there's an old topic here:

 

So I could be wrong, but my understanding is that ToysNotify will add to this table whenever it is called with new ArousalAdj and Arousal values. Maybe certain strings generated in scripts are not added to the table and it will actually be OK, I am not an expert. But I do know the string table increases in size over time in a save game, so it makes sense that certain strings generated in-game are added to the table.

 

 

SaveFile expert here. String values are only stored in the savefile if they are still in use somewhere -- that is, if some string variable somewhere is pointing to that string value.

 

Also, the string table limit doesn't exist in SSE.

 

Also, even in LE, if you have Meh321's CrashFixes mod installed (and you absolutely should), the string table limit also doesn't exist.

Edited June 1, 2021 by markdf

[VirginMarie]

@DayTri and @markdf thank you both. I've learned things that could be useful in the future.

[Nazzzgul666]

As markdfs guide describes, Crash fixes extends that limit nicely and in my experience, above anything mods would reach easily. I use it since years and ever since all my crashes were for three reasons. Stack dumps, me beeing stupid by having wrong load/install order, and Microsoft Visual c++ errors. I wouldn't worry about string limits really, it hasn't been a thing anymore since years.

*EDit: That said, back to the cum stacks... a chastity belt should not and does not block cum from flowing out in FHU because it only does so for plugs. You can wear a belt without plugs and push it out fine. Differentiate between the two (as well as piercings) should be a thing imho. I don't agree that block_vaginal is enough.
Also the other way around - as your item description says you're not able to touch the plug, just feel it, it wouldn't sound too crazy to be able to have sex while wearing a plug. The dick might just go through a ghostly mass. Sure, that would depend on the creator but the framework should provide the infrastructure to set something up like this. From your answers i'm not entirely sure if it does currently.

*Edit2: And once it is possible to differ, custom messages shouldn't be too hard anymore... I mean, about how much options are we talking here really? I can only see three so far - plug, belt, piercing. With these three as keywords you can combine them and cover everything necessary i can imagine. And by asking for the combination you can write messages that are pretty specific and still fitting.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Nazzzgul666

[VirginMarie]

4 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

As markdfs guide describes, Crash fixes extends that limit nicely and in my experience, above anything mods would reach easily. I use it since years and ever since all my crashes were for three reasons. Stack dumps, me beeing stupid by having wrong load/install order, and Microsoft Visual c++ errors. I wouldn't worry about string limits really, it hasn't been a thing anymore since years.

 

You and I together shall spam the world with immersive context sensitive lore!

 

As a starter sample for me to do, hopefully as text center bottom, that can be as long as a dialog line, what should I display when Spontaneous Orgasm starts? 

[VirginMarie]

57 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

You can wear a belt without plugs and push it out fine. Differentiate between the two (as well as piercings) should be a thing imho. I don't agree that block_vaginal is enough.

 

Knowing the Slot is for stuff like Chasity belts is enough to known then, that the flow can flow. And we have that.

It must be enough because that's all mods have now to work with if its DD. That's all that Fill Her Up has to work with. When it comes to knowing the slots, and knowing what's blocked, Toys is fully compatible with DD.

 

57 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Also the other way around - as your item description says you're not able to touch the plug, just feel it, it wouldn't sound too crazy to be able to have sex while wearing a plug. The dick might just go through a ghostly mass. Sure, that would depend on the creator but the framework should provide the infrastructure to set something up like this. From your answers i'm not entirely sure if it does currently.

I think id does currently. At least I'm not yet seeing a hole, and no I don't mean those holes.

 

Toy that should not protect lost virginity = don't use block keyword. 

 

57 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

plug, belt, piercing. With these three as keywords you can combine them and cover everything necessary i can imagine.

 

The system needs to think bigger picture here. If there's a new set of keyword to categorize toys in a different manner, its not just categorizing the pelvic region of the body. But in this case its not about body parts/slots or blocking holes. Its about terminology used to name things. You can't pigeon hole that. So I say we use the name of the toy. 

 

The belt rubs on you. 

NO!

 

The Virgin Chastity Piercing rubs on me.

The Classic Chastity Belt rubs on me.

Edited June 1, 2021 by VirginMarie
fixed to put the examples in Aud's POV

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, audhol said:

From my point of view descriptive messages add a lot to the immersion but  I think with how toys approaches the relationship between player and PC any messages should be first person, like the character is telling the player how they are reacting to the toys. "That spiky ball on the end of my clit piercing is driving me crazy" for example.

 

This is a key point. We've taken the POV that the player is separate from the PC.

 

For example the blindfold does not cause your screen to be blacked out or difficult to see in a fog, instead, only the PC in blind, and animates like s/he is blinded (wait till you see what's coming with the stumbling and falling!  ).

 

The gag means use sign language to get to the dialog (also coming next release), instead of clicking through stuff.

 

We we want our messages in that context, like Aud's example above.

Edited June 1, 2021 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

@Nazzzgul666 Its actually rather difficult to do this when its not involving another actor... but.. like this...

 

 

I need to test if I can stick changing parameters in that text, like the orgasm increase example we had. I think I can but need to confirm. EDIT: na, you can't, skyrim limitation. But you can do the mechanics in the notification, and this immersive message at the same time.

 

This would still be on/off controlled by user in MCM. Messages that are immersive would be bottom center. Others just stay as notifications.

Edited June 3, 2021 by VirginMarie

[Nazzzgul666]

10 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Knowing the Slot is for stuff like Chasity belts is enough to known then, that the flow can flow. And we have that.

 

I totally forgot about slots, yes. That would be an obvious solution. I don't really mind if it's first or third person, matter of taste i guess and i'd be fine with either.

[VirginMarie]

 

On 6/2/2021 at 12:48 AM, Nazzzgul666 said:

I don't really mind if it's first or third person, matter of taste i guess and i'd be fine with either.

and....
 To Anyone interested in contributing to some immersive writing!... 

 

A combination of your thoughts, and some other projects in the works, inspired me to build a Toys feature, and its now in the next release, ready to be exploited.  I'm calling the feature "Voice In My Head". 

 

;.......... Say Topic - "Voice In My Head"
;Say a topic, with no actor, like a line of dialogue. Alternative to a notification, good for immersive and random text
;TopicRef - topic to say / Time - seconds to say the say / Freecam - set true if during a scene with freecam
;Only use Freecam if the message will end at least a few seconds before the scene. The scene must end the freecam
Function SayTopic(Topic TopicRef, Int Time=8, Bool FreeCam=False)

It lets a mod use a dialogue topic, but without an actor. In the CK/XEdit, you condition it on ToysVoiceInMyHead instead of an actor.

 

The result is text displayed bottom center, never reduced in font size, because its a dialogue line. You can control its duration. You can supply multiple lines for randomization. And if you really want to, you could even voice it. It can be skipped early with space bar (the Toys Advance hot key which can be changed in MCM). The MCM has a "Voice in My Head Chance Slider" so you can reduce the frequency of this happening.

 

We will put this to use for Toy Story and SLaVE, but first, I'm making Toys itself use it. Here's all the "events" that need it. I've got some lines written, but many need improvement, and alternates for randomizing...

 

"Voice In My Head" Events:

Spoiler

 

Spontaneous Orgasm starts:

• Suddenly, I lose control of myself, as a spontaneous orgasm erupts!
• I feel the pressure of orgasmic energy build-up, suddenly burst!
• My eyeballs roll up, as my body convulses, giving way to a massive release!

Periodic Arousal Increase (has mechanical notifications, giving amounts):

• I feel increased arousal due to the toys I wear.
• A toy stimulates and drives my arousal up.
• The toys I wear are stirring orgasmic energies deep within.

OrgasmFallOff Effect, upon orgasm a toy is blown off:

• I unleash a mighty orgasm, sending a toy flying off my body!
• A toy is knocked off, due to the sheer force of my orgasmic energies!

Strip Effect, forces your armor off:

• A toy forces my armor off

You've stumbled and fallen due to the Blind effect:

• I've tripped and fallen on my ass, while trying to run blinded

Exhausted Effect, you start squirming on the ground after some combat with an exhausting toy:

• I'm exhausted and have collapsed on the ground

Harm Effect, Toy causes periodic bleed (harm to hp) - Not certain if we want a voice in your head for this

• A toy is making me bleed!

Stamina Loss Effect: Toy causes periodic stamina loss - Not certain if we want a voice in your head for this

• A toy is draining my stamina.

Toy Transformation Effects. Due to Arousal Level or being hit enough times in battle

• I feel a toy on my body change in form.

HitFallOff Effect, a toy his hit in battle, causing it to fall off

• I feel a toy struck and break, falling to the ground.

A toy is temporarily hidden (usually for a scene where the toy is inappropriate for the scene, like an armbinder)

• I feel some toys on my body phase into Oblivion

Manual toy removal attempts. (these have mechanical notifications, naming the toy)

• I remove a keyless toy.
• I unlock and remove a toy.
• I try to remove a toy, but fail. It must be locked or something.
• My attempt to remove a toy has jammed the lock!

 

 

[Nazzzgul666]

17 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

A combination of your thoughts, and some other projects in the works, inspired me to build a Toys feature, and its now in the next release, ready to be exploited.  I'm calling the feature "Voice In My Head". 

 

Sounds good, i'll definitly think about some lines.  While i think just generally using "a toy" is pretty clever, i still think more specific descriptions would be hotter... but if we can't have specific messages for plugs, there are keywords for vaginal/anal/breast regions?
Something like "Something in my nether rgeions shifted, raising my arousal" would still be nice to have.

Meanwhile, i thought about your question about arousal balance and i think... you definitly should add sliders for arousal gain and loss, i think you'll need something like an option to put both somewhere between 10 and... 1000%? Might be better with absolute numbers but i don't really see a chance to balance it otherwise. There is a shitton of mods fiddling with arousal which means every playthrough is quite unique in that regard and a lot of mods doing stuff when it's high... not to mention different settings for SLA itself and some mods need NPCs with decent arousal to work properly so some might have to increase the general gain.

I honestly don't think you'd be able to reach anything even remotly balanced for a noteworthy amount of players with fixed settings.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Nazzzgul666

[VirginMarie]

4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

While i think just generally using "a toy" is pretty clever, i still think more specific descriptions would be hotter... but if we can't have specific messages for plugs, there are keywords for vaginal/anal/breast regions?
Something like "Something in my nether rgeions shifted, raising my arousal" would still be nice to have.

 

Voice in my Head, cannot support variables (text that gets inserted). It's using Skyrim Dialogue Topics which only let you do that in the menu text of dialogue. So no "Something in my <insert region here> region shifted".

 

However it can be conditional (displays the whole thing, or not at all), so we can write full lines that are conditioned on a keyword, or a custom variable.

 

It's a lot of messing around to do this, and I think that effort should be put into alt text that can be used generically instead. More bang for the effort. However there's maybe cases for it where it's wanted like we could have messages that only occur if your arousal is higher than X. Messages that only happen if you are crawling, wrists are bound, you are in combat, you are swimming, and a certain slot is "toyed" of course. Its endless.

 

Note also that we can still have notifications at the same time. So right now, when arousal changes, I still have those mechanical notifications with the amounts, plus the Voice In My Head. In the MCM you can independently control each. Good example is when a toy is blown off by your orgasm, it's using one of 3 generic messages, while the notification tells you which toy fell off.

 

4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

you definitly should add sliders for arousal gain and loss

 

MCM already has this. Weighting (multiplier) sliders for arousal increase and decrease. Make it increase 1.2 times faster, for example.

[Nazzzgul666]

Not sure if i get it. I thought about the "Something between my legs shifted". as some kind of generic message as it doesn't matter if it's a plug, a belt, or well... vaginal piercing at least. Anything that has a vaginal keyword can trigger the message without needing a message that tells specificly what it was. It would make a difference if you're wearing only nipple piercings though.^^ Generally i'd say for messages, more is better. It might be nice to have a couple of quite generic (not necessarily dynamic ) messages in combination with quite specific ones. Eventually they'll all become familiar but imho... it still makes quite a difference if you have like 5 or 20 or 50 how used you get to them and if it becomes boring.

Anyways, sounds good to me so far, but i'll need some time to come up with actual lines. Ideally playing SlaVE i guess but i'm afraid that will have to wait a while. I dunno if you're playing yourself at all, but SL Survival + Wartimes (semi incest start scenario) + Troubles of Heroine alone could probably keep me busy for months. It's a combination i can at least very much recommend to your husband if he's still playing.  

[VirginMarie]

49 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Not sure if i get it. 

 

You are getting it. Can do pretty much anything. Its balance of if it's worth the time. If your lines get my innocent imagination, becoming not so innocent, I'd find a way! Not going to add more keywords forcing mod authors to use them when they are only for messages. So far nothing you have wanted needs additional keywords. Also not going to take the quantity of messages to a Apropos level, but if I'm not the one writing them all we can do 5-10, where as I'd only do 2-3 per event on my own as my mind is too innocent to write the juicy stuff.

 

Best thing to do is, once you've started, share it so we can see if we are on the same page and its doable, before you go too far. Often a slight approach change can achieve almost the same thing, but save the technical bit of implementing it a huge amount. You might want to join our Discord as it can be a nicer format for project work, but whatever turns you on.

 

49 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Anyways, sounds good to me so far, but i'll need some time to come up with actual lines. Ideally playing SlaVE i guess

SLaVE is going to be begging for this Voice In My Head, but first its about getting Toys done.

 

If you are not ready to jump into SLaVE, you can easily focus on Toys just by installing it with Toyful Temptations so you get toys and keys, and Classic Toy Box, plus maybe go through the short Toy Story quest if it's installed (its only the intro there so far). 

 

49 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

 

but i'm afraid that will have to wait a while. I dunno if you're playing yourself at all, but SL Survival + Wartimes (semi incest start scenario) + Troubles of Heroine alone could probably keep me busy for months. It's a combination i can at least very much recommend to your husband if he's still playing.  

 

I'd love feed back on Toys in combo with those 3 mods. I do play myself but its for play through testing of the too many thing's I'm trying to get done. I want to try Toys in combo with each of those mods, and see if there's anything I can do to make synergy, and what ideas they inspire. I think mostly it's the other way around though, where those mods need to become "Toys aware" which might not take much.

 

The dirty minded husband is still playing with a much larger load order than me, mainly so that when he's helping me test, his includes the "stress test".

[Nazzzgul666]

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I'd love feed back on Toys in combo with those 3 mods. I do play myself but its for play through testing of the too many thing's I'm trying to get done. I want to try Toys in combo with each of those mods, and see if there's anything I can do to make synergy, and what ideas they inspire. I think mostly it's the other way around though, where those mods need to become "Toys aware" which might not take much.

 

I actually just made a save and made a speed run through toy story. Not 100% sure if i saw everything, i reloaded after i left that... lake base. Mentioning that, i'd also like some messages there, i think Voice in my Head would be great there. For example, why you just drop on your knees to fuck that shrine. At least that was one point where i thought "Well... my char wouldn't have done that rn just like that." 

Otherwise... yes... possibly. Monoman and Lupine seemed open to add support for toys, although not really eager, and they both don't lack things on their to-do lists. Similar for Laura btw which i did poke.  For ToH... with all respect, he doesn't seem much into... technical stuff, really. Which can be a good thing actually, and i'm kinda glad his mod proved that. For example... you did a very impressive work re-adjusting animations to new situations and that's great, but you don't always need such a solution to create an immersive story. He just added some pop-ups with text describing what happens instead when there was no solution ready by his few dependencies (i think it's only zaz, Sexlab and Fuz-do-roh)
He doesn't even use force greets 99.99% of the time (i think there are like 2 in the entire mod). Most of his followers story-wise expect you to speak to them regularly but when or even if you do is up to you, and i have to admit i really like it. Devious followers and Submissive Lola have definitly something, but i tend to... make plans what i want to do next in my game and they kept getting in my way with their requests which can become annoying^^.

Long story short, i would not expect him to really support toys other than trying not to get in the way, which kinda is given by, well... generally not enforcing things. A couple of NPCs will try to equip Zaz collars but they don't freak out when you don't wear them for example. They'll just try it and assume you wear them afterwards.

[VirginMarie]

18 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

lake base.

 

Do you mean, the "Location that shall not be named?"  There's only one way in game to see its name, so I'd not expect that you know it.

 

19 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

For example, why you just drop on your knees to fuck that shrine.

 

Well duh, I totally made Voice In My Head for mods like Toy Story to use, not just Toys itself! But make love to what shrine? Do you mean the Phasing stone? In that case, its so you can gain intimate knowledge of course!

[Nazzzgul666]

9 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Do you mean, the "Location that shall not be named?"  There's only one way in game to see its name, so I'd not expect that you know it.

 

 

Well duh, I totally made Voice In My Head for mods like Toy Story to use, not just Toys itself! But make love to what shrine? Do you mean the Phasing stone? In that case, its so you can gain intimate knowledge of course!

I simply can't remember the name of that damn lake xD

And yes, the phasing stone... thing is, my char was a virgin without children to raise them as such and i don't think she'd give that fucking a stone. Not witohut an explanation at least.

[VirginMarie]

7 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I simply can't remember the name of that damn lake xD

And yes, the phasing stone... thing is, my char was a virgin without children to raise them as such and i don't think she'd give that fucking a stone. Not witohut an explanation at least.

 

Don't care about the name of the damn lake! The Phasing Stone takes you to the Location That Shall Not Be Named!

 

 

Do you mean like this?

(Merc might improve it but that's gonna be in next release of Toy Story)

 

 

And this feature, that someone made a bargain with me for, is done. Can you spot it there?

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

Teaser

 

This is the upcoming stumble and fall, when you wear a blindfold. Ample control in MCM of course.

 

[SleepyMonster]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:17 PM, VirginMarie said:

Guide - How To Make A Toy Box:

Thank you for the detailed Guides to create new Toys ?

Edited June 5, 2021 by SleepyMonster

[VirginMarie]

50 minutes ago, SleepyMonster said:

Thank you for the detailed Guides to create new Toys ?

You are very welcome. Did you successfully make a toy box? Gonna publish it?

[SleepyMonster]

19 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

You are very welcome. Did you successfully make a toy box? Gonna publish it?

Lol, noooo, I'm not that fast, I just started to play around with the goal to add toy effects to armors or amulets.

Without the guide I wouldn't even try

[Nazzzgul666]

5 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Do you mean like this?

 

And this feature, that someone made a bargain with me for, is done. Can you spot it there?

 

<3. Yes, Definitly like this. Maybe start with something like "I feel a heavy weight pulling (pushing?), forcing me on my knees."

And a general thought... I'm not sure if that's possible for the voice in my head but i'm 99% sure it would be for notifications... having them in a .json file that can easily be edited would allow users to add and share messages, and you could just pick those you like the most for the next official release. No idea if there'd be many doing so, but having the option would be a plus imho.