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Shakx88

Devious Devices Escape Overhaul

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Hi Shakx88, awesome mod and I like it.

I fully agree with you that DD escape experience is so bad, expecting the coming update.

 

BTW, can I get your permission to translate the mod to Chinese and post it to Chinese bbs 9dmdamaomod.com?

I will declare the original link, the mod creator and your patrons link(if you had)

 

thanks.

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2 hours ago, mrc0580 said:

BTW, can I get your permission to translate the mod to Chinese and post it to Chinese bbs 9dmdamaomod.com?

I will declare the original link, the mod creator and your patrons link(if you had)

Yes, anyone is free to translate and reupload it as long as they reference this thread.

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Really great mod! One of the best new DD mods since some time in my opinion!

Brings a refreshingly new feeling to DD.

 

One important thing missing though: Can you make a "lock mcm menu while bound" option, like DD, DF, Cursed Loot, etc. have?

Takes away some fun, when you are able to tweak escape settings while escaping. :D

 

Thanks! :)

 

 

 

 

Also a question to the "difficulty" page: The difficulties (easy/normal/hard/hardcore) - do they influence escaping from this device, or for ALL devices? The description texts are a bit contradicting sometimes.

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9 hours ago, marmada said:

One important thing missing though: Can you make a "lock mcm menu while bound" option, like DD, DF, Cursed Loot, etc. have?

Takes away some fun, when you are able to tweak escape settings while escaping. :D

Not really a fun of such settings, but can do.

9 hours ago, marmada said:

Also a question to the "difficulty" page: The difficulties (easy/normal/hard/hardcore) - do they influence escaping from this device, or for ALL devices? The description texts are a bit contradicting sometimes.

This is the extra difficulty affecting escaping from ALL devices. It matters only for blindfolds and mittens though, because you can't escape from any devices apart from wrist restraints while wearing wrist restraints.

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Thanks a lot for making this.

 

I really quite like how this works and the way I can customise it.

 

The only issue I have with it is something glebbus13 pointed out on the previous page.
When you change the escape key from X to something else (I like to change it to V, for example), it works as it should. But as soon as I save and load, it automatically gets set back to X.

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48 minutes ago, Nathriel said:

When you change the escape key from X to something else (I like to change it to V, for example), it works as it should. But as soon as I save and load, it automatically gets set back to X.

I'm aware of this. There is a bug in the update sequence which causes it to run after every game load and thus the key to be reset. I figured I'd fix it with the next update, but it's taking me longer than I planned.

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0.5.0 is out. Changelog:

Spoiler

 - Added: NPCs can now remove devices from the PC.
 - Added: Options to disable/enabled ability to repair locks when wearing certain devices independently of lockpicking setting for respective devices.
 - Added: (In debug tab) Option to allow escaping from quest devices. Mainly intended to make the mod usable in scenarios when you need to struggle out of a device. Removing quest devices may break other mods.
 - Added: (In debug tab) Option to allow escaping from devices with shielded locks. Do note that it simply ignores the shield.
 - Added: Option to lock MCM while wearing devices.
 - Fixed: Key bindings should no longer reset.

 

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Will the NPC part expands in the future ?

 

For example : Pay gold to escape or npc refuse ?

 

                       Speech check difficulty ?

 

Thanks for the update, great mod !

 

 

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Hi, a couple of years ago I wrote some ideas about restraints.

Here is a part of it, you might find it relevant to what you are doing now.

 

 

Spoiler

How to escape from restraints

 

There are 3 basic methods

 

Use the Key

 

Duh.

 

 

Break the restraint/lock

 

You need the expertise, tools and ability to do it. It is not hard to cut off a leather armband, after all. An iron cuff is doable as well, you just need a good chisel and hammer (tools). It becomes more interesting, when it comes to removing a metal chastity belts or blindfold. Most restraints have higher difficulty when the player tries to remove them herself.

 

You can always ask an NPC as well to do it. All blacksmiths can break regular metal or leather restraints, it would be really a shame if they couldn't. Rare materials might require rare talent though, for example not all blacksmiths can work with dwemer metals.

 

Restrains removed this way are destroyed.

 

 

Pick the lock

 

The player can attempt to pick the lock. No penalty for accessible locks (like on the leg), penalties for the problematic ones (The ones she has hard time to reach. Not seeing is not too big problem IMO, since you don't see the insides of the lock anyway).

 

The player should use a slightly modified lockpicking minigame. The modification is that the restraint locks have generally higher difficulty level than the regular game locks and there is also a chance of jamming the lock when trying to open it with a lock pick.

 

Jamming Widget

 

There should be a widget bar indicator on the screen next to the Lockpicking Xp bar. The bar is empty at start (0). If it fills up (100), the lock is jammed. The bar can fill up for 2 reasons:

 

Broken lock pick: Each broken lockpick adds a fixed value to the bar. The value depends on the lock difficulty, it should be somewhere between 20 (easy lock) and 80 (master difficulty lock). So if someone breaks a lock pick on an easy lock, she can try it a few more times without fear of jamming it. On a master lock, there is only 1 chance to open it.

 

Over time: While the player is moving the lockpick, a timer works in the background. After a while, it will increase the Jamming bar by an amount. This feature simulates the small mechanism being manipulated by a metal tool. It gets damaged over time. (Actually it is just to compensate for the unbreakable lock picks, but whatever.) These are small increments, but they happen regularly. Like 1-3 points/second. It is important that this only happens when the player is actually working on the lock (strafe buttons).

 

If the player cancels the lockpicking, the jamming indicator stays on the last level (or resets after x hours).

 

Jammed locks can't be opened, the restraint must be destroyed to escape from it.

 

 

Lockpicking Skill

 

The Lockpicking skill becomes really important in this system, since it makes opening the locks easier. Also, there are skills which:

  • make you a copy of key for the opened lock. This is a good way to get a key for the restraint.
  • make the lock picks unbreakable. This really helps, since the jamming bar won't increase by the broken picks. However there is still the Over time stuff.

 

 

NPCs who can help the player

 

Average NPC

 

They can't open locks. They can cut off regular Leather (non-metallic) restraints. In the world of Skyrim, everyone has at least a dagger.

 

Blacksmith

 

They can't open locks, but they can destroy locks and regular restraints.

 

Specialized / Expert / Legendary Blacksmith

 

For special restraints, which are above the average level of blacksmithing, like Daedric, Dwemer, Dragon, etc.). There might be 1-2 blacksmiths who can work with any material, but most experts know only 1 (maybe 2) special materials.

 

Locksmiths

 

New NPC type. These NPCs have various skill level, but they all can easily open the regular locks. Some of them are highly regarded by their skill and hired by lords to create intricate locks for their safes and buildings.

 

Thieves

 

Depending on their level and expertise they can try to open locks. Most thieves doesn't have the required expertise to try and open very small, intricate locks. But here and there, the player can find a specialist, who can deal with these locks.

 

Mages

 

The mages specialized in Alternation school can be helpful in many ways. They can open locks for instance. Or if they lack the precision for the intricate small locks (most of them), at least they can change the material of the restraint to a lower category (or strengthen it if they are evil SOBs).

 

Enchanters may be able to disable an enchantment on the Restraint (or add more).

 

Summoners may be able to summon keys for some restraints.

 

Destruction mages might be able to destroy restraints or locks, but 99% of them doesn't like mini explosions, so they lack the precision and control to do this kind of delicate work.

 

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15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Hi, a couple of years ago I wrote some ideas about restraints.

Here is a part of it, you might find it relevant to what you are doing now.

Here is what I can say about your ideas (as a person who has worked with CK and Papyrus, not as someone judging your concepts, mostly).

Spoiler
15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

You need the expertise, tools and ability to do it. It is not hard to cut off a leather armband, after all. An iron cuff is doable as well, you just need a good chisel and hammer (tools). It becomes more interesting, when it comes to removing a metal chastity belts or blindfold. Most restraints have higher difficulty when the player tries to remove them herself.

 

You can always ask an NPC as well to do it. All blacksmiths can break regular metal or leather restraints, it would be really a shame if they couldn't. Rare materials might require rare talent though, for example not all blacksmiths can work with dwemer metals.

This is a good concept (and the one I have considered). However, DD doesn't provide any internal information regarding the material of a device. Thus, there is no reliable AND generic way of doing it (at least non that I'm aware of). I'd hate to implement something non-generic or non-reliable.

I believe same goes for NPCs (again, I may not be aware of a way to do it).

15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Restrains removed this way are destroyed.

I could make it an option.

 

15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

The player can attempt to pick the lock. No penalty for accessible locks (like on the leg), penalties for the problematic ones (The ones she has hard time to reach. Not seeing is not too big problem IMO, since you don't see the insides of the lock anyway).

Yet again, there is no reliable AND generic way of detecting how difficult it is to reach the lock. I mean, DD has per-device properties which define how difficult it is to escape from a device in a certain way (and these properties are respected), but they may not represent what the model looks like.

 

15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Broken lock pick: Each broken lockpick adds a fixed value to the bar. The value depends on the lock difficulty, it should be somewhere between 20 (easy lock) and 80 (master difficulty lock). So if someone breaks a lock pick on an easy lock, she can try it a few more times without fear of jamming it. On a master lock, there is only 1 chance to open it.

While it is a good idea (and the one which would make lockpicking minigame a tad better), there is no clean way of tracking when a lockpick breaks. The best method I can think of is running a timer and checking the amount of lockpicks the PC has.

15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Over time: While the player is moving the lockpick, a timer works in the background. After a while, it will increase the Jamming bar by an amount. This feature simulates the small mechanism being manipulated by a metal tool. It gets damaged over time. (Actually it is just to compensate for the unbreakable lock picks, but whatever.) These are small increments, but they happen regularly. Like 1-3 points/second. It is important that this only happens when the player is actually working on the lock (strafe buttons).

I don't want to deprive players of the skills they work so hard to gain. It's up to them whether to use unbreakable lockpicks or not.

15 hours ago, monsta88 said:

make you a copy of key for the opened lock. This is a good way to get a key for the restraint.

I believe that would not make much sense, since Wax Key is intended to be used to make a copy of a unique key, not a generic one. In theory, if you can make a copy of one restraints key, you can make a hundred.

 

P.S. When I say there is no generic AND reliable way, here is what I mean:

It is possible to distinguish devices in any way one needs by creating formlists with those devices. However, formlists will only consider the devices I have gone through and added to those lists. It won't be generic.

It is also possible to do so by searching for text in the name of a device (for materials) or by analyzing which slot a devices takes (for lockpicking). However, a device may not have its material specified in its name. And a slot which the device occupies may not represent how difficult it is to reach its lock. Thus, both methods are unreliable. The second also makes assumptions, which makes it non-generic.

 

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Thanks for the answers. As I mentioned, this was only a part of what I wrote, I envisioned a complete restraint system. I could do that because I had no idea of the internal workings of the CK. :)

For example I imagined that we can just lego restraints together randomly by selecting material, lock type and enchantments. So in that system you could tell if a restraint was Leather and what difficulty the lock had. In that system there was a possibility for unique keys for restraints as well, so the Wax key made more sense.

 

Anyway, I mostly posted this because I saw you are using the Lockpoick minigame. Feel free to use any of the ideas as they are or as a base for something else.

 

Oh and a suggestion/request: Please consider allowing the player use the same minigame on NPCs! For example a trap equips the DB and the follower in heavy restraints. The DB can use the minigames to free herself but currently nothing can be done with the NPC (without keys). It would be logical if the DB can free herself, she could (try to) open the Follower 's restraints too, probably more easily than she did her own ones.

 

Peace,

M

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I like the idea of the mod but I, and a lot of others, use KenMOD - Lockpick Pro, cause it gets old real quick lock-picking so if you don't mind the request if you could incorporate a way for your mod to override that for DD that would be welcome, thanks for the mod anyway.

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2 hours ago, matt66 said:

I like the idea of the mod but I, and a lot of others, use KenMOD - Lockpick Pro, cause it gets old real quick lock-picking so if you don't mind the request if you could incorporate a way for your mod to override that for DD that would be welcome, thanks for the mod anyway.

Iit should probably work fine with my mod, though you need to test it. If you care for technical details:

Spoiler

I have not reimplemented the system in any way. You are lockpicking a lock on a container in an empty cell. The script configures the lock, activates the container as PlayerRef and then uses SKSE's RegisterForMenu() to wait until the lockpicking menu is closed. As long as the mod does not break this part of SKSE, it will work just fine.

 

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Thanks for the frequent updates! Very appreciated! :)

 

By the way, what's with the "widget" in the options?

If I do escape struggle minigame, I don't see any widget. I only see messages "device weakened/tightened". Is there some widget supposed to be there? Would be great to have a visual component for sure.

 

And a question about the escape logic: So if I do a "weaken" move, the same button will for sure not be a "weaken" in the next round, right? That means, the "weaken" is for sure always one of the other 3 buttons (= 33% of chance), or are there cases, where all four buttons are "tighten" (this is what I suppose for difficult devices right now...)?

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5 hours ago, marmada said:

And a question about the escape logic: So if I do a "weaken" move, the same button will for sure not be a "weaken" in the next round, right? That means, the "weaken" is for sure always one of the other 3 buttons (= 33% of chance), or are there cases, where all four buttons are "tighten" (this is what I suppose for difficult devices right now...)?

When you weaken a device, the minigame picks a random button of the four. So the same one could still weaken it.

5 hours ago, marmada said:

By the way, what's with the "widget" in the options?

If I do escape struggle minigame, I don't see any widget. I only see messages "device weakened/tightened". Is there some widget supposed to be there? Would be great to have a visual component for sure.

The widget represents how far you've progressed in struggling out of the device. It is optional and must be enabled in the MCM.

 

Edit: I must point out that if you have the widget on and are wearing a blindfold, it won't be displayed. I'm not certain why it happens and will look into it.

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For the version 0.5.1, when I ask a NPC for help with my device. there is only one choice "broken the device", and when I choose this option, nothing happened.

How can I ask NPC help with my device with pick lock?

 

And also, can I help NPC out of device without a key on picking lock or struggling?

 

thanks.

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On 2/15/2021 at 11:20 PM, matt66 said:

I like the idea of the mod but I, and a lot of others, use KenMOD - Lockpick Pro, cause it gets old real quick lock-picking so if you don't mind the request if you could incorporate a way for your mod to override that for DD that would be welcome, thanks for the mod anyway.

 

I tried Lockpick Pro, it worked fine.

For the better experience, I suggest disable Lockpick Pro mod, or you will get out of a device so easily.

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3 hours ago, mrc0580 said:

 

I tried Lockpick Pro, it worked fine.

For the better experience, I suggest disable Lockpick Pro mod, or you will get out of a device so easily.

 

I think I was not clear in my request, I would like to continue to use lockpick pro but have this mod automaticity switch it off while using this mod to escape

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11 hours ago, matt66 said:

I think I was not clear in my request, I would like to continue to use lockpick pro but have this mod automaticity switch it off while using this mod to escape

Oh, I believe that would not be possible. It seems to replace interface files of skyrim, so there is no way around it without reimplementing lockpicking itself. And I doubt it can be done via Papyrus.

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7 hours ago, Shakx88 said:

Oh, I believe that would not be possible. It seems to replace interface files of skyrim, so there is no way around it without reimplementing lockpicking itself. And I doubt it can be done via Papyrus.

 

Thank you for the reply, worth a try asking lol.

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