Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[xiwowangyi]

您好，一旦我戴上项圈开始对话，就会提示任务失败。无论是我还是主动出击的追随者，都会失败。原因是什么？

[Hex Bolt]

22 minutes ago, xiwowangyi said:

Hello, as soon as I put on the collar and start a conversation, it will prompt the task failed. Both I and the followers who took the initiative will fail. What is the reason?

The usual cause is that Zaz Animation Pack (ZAP) is not installed, or that it is not working correctly.

[MikeCobalt]

Hey  very good mod, I keep getting an Error message the scene is stuck in a Pet related scene. One thing I noticed is at first there was sweeping (others too I think) but the last days none of those have been prompted. Is there a way to fix this?

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, MikeCobalt said:

I keep getting an Error message the scene is stuck in a Pet related scene.

I would need to know more about the error message and the specific scene to understand what's happening.

[MikeCobalt]

1 hour ago, Hex Bolt said:

I would need to know more about the error message and the specific scene to understand what's happening.

 The message read "Game Problem, one of us is stuck in a scene."

a few moments later, it asked if I wanted to move on or stay in the scene; I didn't have time to write it all exactly.

I think it read "Pet Tricks"...

Edited March 8, 2025 by MikeCobalt

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, MikeCobalt said:

The message read "Game Problem, one of us is stuck in a scene."

a few moments later, it asked if I wanted to move on or stay in the scene; I didn't have time to write it all exactly.

I think it read "Pet Tricks"...

That shouldn't happen with Pet Tricks, so it's okay to select the option to end the scene.  After that, if this keeps occurring, let me know and I can look for a problem in the mod.

[MikeCobalt]

15 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

That shouldn't happen with Pet Tricks, so it's okay to select the option to end the scene.  After that, if this keeps occurring, let me know and I can look for a problem in the mod.

It's very likely this is from my PC also, if nobody else/very few have mentioned this also than its more likely on my side

[belegost]

Getting back to topic of keywords and nudity. I re-checked both earrings and nails.

Both use ArmorJewelry and then earrings use ClothingHead and fingernails use ClothingHands keywords. Yet since wearing them apparently constitutes violation of nudity rules, I can only deduce that ClothingXXX keywords must be a violation as well, not just ArmorLight or ArmorHeavy. Am I correct in this assumption?

 

Follow up question: are Baka keywords taken into account at all?

 

EDIT:

Third question: does the collar need to be from DD or zaz?

I would like to use a TAWOBA collar (mostly for armor rating and because it fits with rest of the set she's wearing), but I really don't want to go through the whole editing process to turn it into a Devious Device, especiallt since SPID may distribute it to an NPC and I don't want that. Can I just add a keyword to an existing collar and have it count for the purposes of this mod?

Edited March 8, 2025 by belegost

[Hex Bolt]

8 hours ago, belegost said:

Getting back to topic of keywords and nudity. I re-checked both earrings and nails.

Both use ArmorJewelry and then earrings use ClothingHead and fingernails use ClothingHands keywords. Yet since wearing them apparently constitutes violation of nudity rules, I can only deduce that ClothingXXX keywords must be a violation as well, not just ArmorLight or ArmorHeavy. Am I correct in this assumption?

No, only some.  ClothingBody, ClothingHands, and ClothingHead are normally used for things that cover those areas to a large degree.  Covering yourself is not allowed when you're supposed to be naked.  Unarmored foot covering is allowed so you don't hurt your feet (for mods that penalize being barefoot) or to allow high heel shoes.

 

Jewelry should not use these keywords.  Jewelry has separate ones:  ArmorRing, ClothingCirclet, and ClothingNecklace (yes, it's odd that one uses "armor" but the others use "clothing").  Nonstandard jewelry that isn't a ring, circlet, or necklace should have no keyword other than ArmorJewelry (and VendorItemJewelry if a vendor would reasonably buy it).  A lot of mod creators don't understand Skyrim's conventions and just force fit keywords onto accessories ("Earrings are on part of the head, so they must be head clothing!") or they copy & paste from a vanilla item and don't clean up the keywords.

 

8 hours ago, belegost said:

Follow up question: are Baka keywords taken into account at all?

No.

 

8 hours ago, belegost said:

Third question: does the collar need to be from DD or zaz?

Yes, either of those.

 

8 hours ago, belegost said:

I would like to use a TAWOBA collar (mostly for armor rating and because it fits with rest of the set she's wearing), but I really don't want to go through the whole editing process to turn it into a Devious Device, especiallt since SPID may distribute it to an NPC and I don't want that. Can I just add a keyword to an existing collar and have it count for the purposes of this mod?

You're in luck.  SLTR's custom collar option does most of the work for exactly this situation.  Look in the Meshes\Devious\Lola folder and you'll see text files that explain how to add a custom collar, gag, or whip.  The custom collar is unique to SLTR, so NPCs won't have it (not unless you're distributing all of SLTR's equippable items).

 

The text files are there for your reference, but you just have to copy the mesh for the TAWOBA collar (and its "go" mesh if you want it to look right in your inventory) into Meshes\Devious\Lola and rename them to CustomCollar_1.nif and CustomCollar_go.nif, replacing the placeholder files.  A key point is that the collar mesh must use slot 45 (the collar the slot for Devious Devices), or it will be invisible.  I believe that bikini collars do use slot 45, but if they don't, it's easy to edit the mesh to change it (I can explain the process if you need to do that.)

 

Do NOT add a DD or ZAP keyword to items.  The early days of SLTR experimented with that.  DD and ZAP will see the "collar" in your inventory and problems will ensue.  I had to abandon that experiment because it caused so much trouble.

 

 

EDIT:  I had overlooked your desire to keep the armor rating on the collar.  Like all DD items, SLTR's custom collar has no armor value.  You could edit SLTR to add that to vkjCollarCustom_Rendered, though I've seen reports elsewhere saying that adding armor to DD items caused problems (most likely because those mods also added armor keywords to the DD items).  Another option would be to add the lost armor rating to a different armor piece that you usually equip.

Edited March 8, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[belegost]

31 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

Jewelry should not use these keywords.

Debatable. There are mods that add pieces where it would make sense. I use them mostly for the purpose of SunHelm calculating Warmth Rating. Yes, I do use some ear pieces where that DOES make sense (like earmuffs). Yes, my characters run in bikinis in blizzard, but hey, at least their ears are warm!

 

31 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

You're in luck.  SLTR's custom collar option does most of the work for exactly this situation.  Look in the Meshes\Devious\Lola folder and you'll see text files that explain how to add a custom collar, gag, or whip.  The custom collar is unique to SLTR, so NPCs won't have it (not unless you're distributing all of SLTR's equippable items).

 

The text files are there for your reference, but you just have to copy the mesh for the TAWOBA collar (and its "go" mesh if you want it to look right in your inventory) into Meshes\Devious\Lola and rename them to CustomCollar_1.nif and CustomCollar_go.nif, replacing the placeholder files.  A key point is that the collar mesh must use slot 45 (the collar the slot for Devious Devices), or it will be invisible.  I believe that bikini collars do use slot 45, but if they don't, it's easy to edit the mesh to change it (I can explain the process if you need to do that.)

 

 

That's not exactly what I want. If I understood you correctly this would still be a "regular" zaz/DD collar just with custom mesh. I'm not interested in just custom mesh, I want to use an actual TAWOBA collar which has armor value and can be tempered. I guess that means I'd have to edit the whole damn thing to be an actual Devious Device. Which is not that complicated, but it's tedious work, and I was looking for a lazy shortcut.

Edited March 8, 2025 by belegost

[Hex Bolt]

On 3/6/2025 at 7:37 PM, chopeks said:

I did spend some time messing around, reading logs and disabling some mods one by one and found out it's SOS - Grower Extended 2.3 SE. After removing that one it seems to be working properly. So I guess some skeleton issues or something along this line, but completely unrelated to Lola. I wonder where the conflict was though.

I'm glad that you got things working, but I really don't think that SOS mod is the cause of the blocked dialog problem.

 

I took a quick look at that mod.  There isn't much to it, just one quest, a script for its MCM, and script to do the scaling.  Nothing in it has dialog or anything would affect dialog.  The most likely cause is removing another mod earlier in your game.  Removing a mod with running scripts is always risky.  My guess is that created a problem that interferes with SLTR dialog.  Removing the SOS mod moved things around internally in your game and hid the problem.  That's fine for now, but it's very likely still lurking in there.  I would clean the current save file and hope for the best, and try to resist removing any other mods (just turn off their features).

[Hex Bolt]

28 minutes ago, belegost said:

That's not exactly what I want. If I understood you correctly this would still be a "regular" zaz/DD collar just with custom mesh. I'm not interested in just custom mesh, I want to use an actual TAWOBA collar which has armor value and can be tempered. I guess that means I'd have to edit the whole damn thing to be an actual Devious Device. Which is not that complicated, but it's tedious work, and I was looking for a lazy shortcut.

Right, you would have to do that to have an armored collar that can be tempered.  Remember that your armored collar must not have armor keywords or it will trigger nudity violations.  The lack of those keywords might keep the game from letting you temper it, so this could be an impossible situation.  The best that you might be able to achieve is a collar with an armor rating that cannot be tempered.

Edited March 8, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[SkyAddiction]

4 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Right, you would have to do that to have an armored collar that can be tempered.  Remember that your armored collar must not have armor keywords or it will trigger nudity violations.  The lack of those keywords might keep the game from letting you temper it, so this could be an impossible situation.  The best that you might be able to achieve is a collar with an armor rating that cannot be tempered.

 

It might not be relevant, depending on mods used, but it's much safer to add armor to DDs via enchantment. Directly armoring DDs can cause some pretty negative interactions with some mods that expect DDs to be unarmored. DCL is an obvious example.

[Roggvir]

Any known issues with the dialogue related to Lola's prostitution?
(using SLTR v2.1.11)

When i ask some NPCs "Hey, looking for a good time?", the dialogue gets stuck and i have to close it by pressing TAB.

It happens 100% time with the guard leaning next to Belethor's shop, also with Mikael in Bannered Mare, and i suspect there will be others.
I am not saying it is a problem with SLTR, but maybe some of you already know what could be causing this?

EDIT: same happens with Belethor, Anoriath, Jon Battle-Born, Heimskr, Danica Pure-Spring, Olfina Gray-Mane, Ysolda, ...more to be added i guess

Edited March 9, 2025 by Roggvir

[Roggvir]

Also curious... Lola can't offer herself to the innkeepers?
I am going through Whiterun, testign the NPCs one by one to find some pattern for the stuck dialogue problem, and i noticed i don't even get the option when talking to Hulda in Bannered Mare.
Is that normal? by design? or some option maybe blocking it?

[Roggvir]

SUGGESTION: for Whipping scenes

Add OAR animation replacement for attack animations.
So if the actor is using a cane or crop (or whatever the other options are), OAR will picks from a set of allowed attack animations.

(even if it would be just the simple vanilla one-handed attack anims, as long as it prevents the nonsensical pirouette attack anim to play)

Reason:

I often see the owner (which is Jenassa right now, in case that somehow matters) to perform the ridiculous pirouette attack animations when whipping Lola.
It is utterly ridiculous.

[Hex Bolt]

6 hours ago, Roggvir said:

When i ask some NPCs "Hey, looking for a good time?", the dialogue gets stuck and i have to close it by pressing TAB.

It happens 100% time with the guard leaning next to Belethor's shop, also with Mikael in Bannered Mare, and i suspect there will be others.
I am not saying it is a problem with SLTR, but maybe some of you already know what could be causing this?

It's possibly related to this change in 2.1.10 (published January 17):  "For compatibility with SexLab Arousal replacers that neglect to set NPC arousal faction, this mod now does that when you solicit a client during basic prostitution."  It just calls GetActorArousal in SL Aroused and sets the faction, nothing that should interfere.  No one else reported a problem so far.

 

6 hours ago, Roggvir said:

Also curious... Lola can't offer herself to the innkeepers?

Correct.  According to the owner, the innkeeper receives a cut of the earnings for serving as a middleman (associate madame?) for the prostitution.  There's a prostutution setting that can require you to offer sex to the innkeeper for free if innkeeper's sex is your preferred type.

 

5 hours ago, Roggvir said:

SUGGESTION: for Whipping scenes

Add OAR animation replacement for attack animations.

If you use DAR or OAR, you should be able to set that up on your own with a condition for the equipped weapon (zbfWeaponCane).  Alternatively, you might be able to suppress the spinning attack animation in your game if you don't like it; I haven't seen it used for anything else.

Edited March 9, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[Roggvir]

51 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

 

6 hours ago, Roggvir said:

SUGGESTION: for Whipping scenes

Add OAR animation replacement for attack animations.

If you use DAR or OAR, you should be able to set that up on your own with a condition for the equipped weapon (zbfWeaponCane).  Alternatively, you might be able to suppress the spinning attack animation in your game if you don't like it; I haven't seen it used for anything else.

Unfortunately, that isn't enough.
It mostly solves the problem of using silly types of attack animations (not 100%, but that may be my fault), but even when it works, it still looks bad due to how ZAP whipping works.
Problem is that ZAP uses a package that makes the actor spam attacks like there is no tomorrow, which still makes it look weird.

And there is still the issue with the actor getting pushed away, out of weapon range.

I am now working on a custom rewrite of the whipping scene.
If it ends up working better, i will post the code so you can have a look and decide whether you'd want to use it or not.

[Roggvir]

1 hour ago, Hex Bolt said:

7 hours ago, Roggvir said:

When i ask some NPCs "Hey, looking for a good time?", the dialogue gets stuck and i have to close it by pressing TAB.

It happens 100% time with the guard leaning next to Belethor's shop, also with Mikael in Bannered Mare, and i suspect there will be others.
I am not saying it is a problem with SLTR, but maybe some of you already know what could be causing this?

It's possibly related to this change in 2.1.10 (published January 17):  "For compatibility with SexLab Arousal replacers that neglect to set NPC arousal faction, this mod now does that when you solicit a client during basic prostitution."  It just calls GetActorArousal in SL Aroused and sets the faction, nothing that should interfere.  No one else reported a problem so far.

Hmmm, i am using OSL Aroused, so maybe there is some problem.
But i don't see any related papyrus errors, and i don't see how this could make the dialogue stuck - can you elaborate please?
I do get the option to say "Hey, looking for a good time?", after which this choice gets faded/greyed out as is normal for selected dialog choices, and it gets stuck like that - there is no NPC response, and the dialogue doesn't close unless i force it closed by pressing TAB.

[Hex Bolt]

10 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

Problem is that ZAP uses a package that makes the actor spam attacks like there is no tomorrow, which still makes it look weird.

And there is still the issue with the actor getting pushed away, out of weapon range.

The whipping speed setting can slow that down if it seems too fast.  I slow it a little, but I like seeing a vigorous punishment whipping, so the scene looks good to me.  Preference, I suppose.

 

I've never had a character get pushed away during whipping.  ZAP does a good job of pinning the actors in place.  Maybe some tweak that you did at some point has changed how it works for you?  I've just never seen that.

 

9 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

But i don't see any related papyrus errors, and i don't see how this could make the dialogue stuck - can you elaborate please?
I do get the option to say "Hey, looking for a good time?", after which this choice gets faded/greyed out as is normal for selected dialog choices, and it gets stuck like that - there is no NPC response, and the dialogue doesn't close unless i force it closed by pressing TAB.

I don't think the change is a problem (no one else has reported one).  I just mentioned it since it was a fairly recent change.  In the past, I know you liked to tinker with dialog.  Maybe a change conflicted with this update.  Just a starting point for something to look at.

[Roggvir]

17 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

36 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

Problem is that ZAP uses a package that makes the actor spam attacks like there is no tomorrow, which still makes it look weird.

And there is still the issue with the actor getting pushed away, out of weapon range.

The whipping speed setting can slow that down if it seems too fast.  I slow it a little, but I like seeing a vigorous punishment whipping, so the scene looks good to me.  Preference, I suppose.

The main issue i see is no pause whatsoever between strikes - slowing attack speed just slows the attack speed, nothing else, it won't add a pause.
I don't mind the attack speed - that is the "vigorous whipping" IMO, and that is ok, but the immediate attacks without pause make it still look a bit silly.

Adding a slight pause between the strikes makes it look much more natural, and also harder or more "vigorous", as if the actor really tries to hit hard.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

I've never had a character get pushed away during whipping.  ZAP does a good job of pinning the actors in place.  Maybe some tweak that you did at some point has changed how it works for you?  I've just never seen that.

This was always a problem, since i remember using the mod.
I just tried my best to ignore it, thinking surely everyone sees it and therefore it will be surely fixed at some point.
It happens much more often with the "silly" attack animations. Especially with power attacks or even the "walk forward and attack" types.
Maybe it depends on who the owner is - what combat style they use - maybe what i see with Jenassa is not the same you see with whoever.
Using the OAR replacement solves ~90% of these issues, but not 100%, it still happens.
And then... then the ZAP indeed makes a good job pinning the actors in place, not allowing the owner to walk close enough to Lola to hit her again 🙂

 

Hopefully, i am going to fix all these issues once and for all, hopefully.

[Roggvir]

39 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

I don't think the change is a problem (no one else has reported one).  I just mentioned it since it was a fairly recent change.  In the past, I know you liked to tinker with dialog.

Not exactly... i tinkered with the dialog only to export the voice lines so i can generate the voice audio using xVA Synth.
I never changed anything related to dialog in the SLTR plugin i play with.
But i will get to the bottom of this - seeing as the NPCs with whom it happens are always the same, it shouldn't be hard to find the pattern and then the cause.

[Hex Bolt]

8 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

This was always a problem, since i remember using the mod.
I just tried my best to ignore it, thinking surely everyone sees it and therefore it will be surely fixed at some point.
It happens much more often with the "silly" attack animations. Especially with power attacks or even the "walk forward and attack" types.

Possibly a difference with game physics for power attacks.  I do know how to prevent the owner from using power attacks; I do that for Counting Is Fun because the number of hits might be confusing with the spinning attack.  If it would help, I could add an option to prevent power attacks for all whippings.

[Roggvir]

2 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Possibly a difference with game physics for power attacks.  I do know how to prevent the owner from using power attacks; I do that for Counting Is Fun because the number of hits might be confusing with the spinning attack.  If it would help, I could add an option to prevent power attacks for all whippings.

A good way to prevent Power Attacks is to just script the attacks using sae "AttackStart", which will perform normal, basic attack.
But if you script it that way, then you obviously can't use ZAP whipping scenes which use UseWeapon procedure in a package.

I'd say don't worry about it, unless other people start nagging you too.

I made a prototype of a custom completely scripted whipping scene, i just need to polish a few things, then i can send it to you - if you like it, you use it, if you don't like it, then i keep it as my private modification, so i will be happy either way

Main differences of my scene are:

• Control which attack anims are used, using Debug.SAE.
  That means basically just the one basic animation (depending on taste), but you can change it or add variations via OAR (optional).
• Player movement is not restricted (optional).
  Free player movement is helpful if the scene starts in a weird place, or inconvenient heading.
  The owner will simply walk into correct position every time player moves.
  Requires OAR to replace player's idle standing animation with whichever pose anim is to be used, so it would be optional in case there are still one or two people in the world who wouldn't be using OAR regardless.
• You have precise control over the number of strikes and their frequency, and other things.
  Obviously, because it is completely scripted, it will be whatever you make it to be.

But i imagine, if you don't find the current ZAP scenes lacking, then there is no need to change anything.

OH, I JUST REALIZED!
I am using Zaz Anim Pack 7.0 rev1
So maybe the whipping scenes in the newer ZAPs are better?

[Hex Bolt]

33 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

Requires OAR to replace player's idle standing animation with whichever pose anim is to be used, so it would be optional in case there are still one or two people in the world who wouldn't be using OAR regardless.

Since I'm on LE, I use DAR, which is available for LE and SE.  I won't be making use of OAR with this mod, but of course players can use whatever they like.

 

36 minutes ago, Roggvir said:

OH, I JUST REALIZED!
I am using Zaz Anim Pack 7.0 rev1
So maybe the whipping scenes in the newer ZAPs are better?

Heh, yes, that might make a difference.  SLTR does work with ZAP 7, but 8 might well have improvements.  ZAP 8 also has the dance animations (their quality isn't great, but not many dance alternatives are available).