Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[HexBolt8]

One item on my list is that Hair Change could be extended by allowing the owner to sometimes say "no, not yet".  The extension would probably be one day.  The chance could by driven by the under-utilized setting for owner rejects rule changes.  There would not be an option for this, other than the reject rule changes setting.  I'm assuming that anyone who hates the Hair Change would have turned it off, so this would only affect players who've left it active.  I've been thinking about this one because it would be quick to do.  Any thoughts on this?

[Talesien]

5 hours ago, Anunya said:

... which makes me almost tempted to spend some money on getting someone to animate something and make it available. I guess the main thing is to make sure that the new animation is in the right format to easily be used. Are there any animators out there who take Skyrim commissions? And if not, how complicated is it to set up to animate for Skyrim I wonder....?

I can't say for Skyrim, but I've quite a bit of experience with regular 3D programs, particularly DAZ (+ some Blender). Before you can animate you need to pose and starting from scratch (and of course depending on your level of perfectionism ^^) I found it pretty hard to come up with believable, natural looking poses. (One reason why pre-made pose packs sell pretty well.) It does get easier with more experience of course, but that's not gonna help for one or two dance animations. The usual animation programs can transition from one key frame (i.e. manually pre-made pose) to another automatically. The number of key frames needed depends on how complicated the motion is (and again your level of perfectionism). Since dances are not your every day walk, run, turn, but rather something pretty unique I expect you will need a pretty high number of key frames. All in all if you've no background in this type of things it will take a lot of time. Might turn out to be fun for you of course. ^^

Edited January 7, 2022 by Talesien

[bnub345]

As far as the dances go, there are some options. Shake It! is here and on the nexus, LE and SE. Most of the dances suffer from the same problems as the options in SLTR, but I think the belly dance is pretty on point for Lola. And whoever wanted a pole dance, one is included in ZAP. There are a couple more mods but I don't have time to look through them until tomorrow.

[Anunya]

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

I can't say for Skyrim, but I've quite a bit of experience with regular 3D programs, particularly DAZ (+ some Blender). Before you can animate you need to pose and starting from scratch (and of course depending on your level of perfectionism ^^) I found it pretty hard to come up with believable, natural looking poses. (One reason why pre-made pose packs sell pretty well.) It does get easier with more experience of course, but that's not gonna help for one or two dance animations. The usual animation programs can transition from one key frame (i.e. manually pre-made pose) to another automatically. The number of key frames needed depends on how complicated the motion is (and again your level of perfectionism). Since dances are not your every day walk, run, turn, but rather something pretty unique I expect you will need a pretty high number of key frames. All in all if you've no background in this type of things it will take a lot of time. Might turn out to be fun for you of course. ^^

 

I actually do have a bit of an animation background... quite a long time ago, and I KNOW I'm not going to animate anything in this case. Got too many other things to do with my time

 

What I meant is that I think I can probably find an animator who can animate a few dance loop animations for a reasonable-ish price, but there's the whole pipeline from whatever that animator animates in (presumably they'll need to use the right bone configuration and export it in the right format and so on). My question was more about how complex the set-up and/ or export process would be to make sure those animations are actually usable by mod authors.

[Anunya]

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Thanks.  I added this to the list

 

My pleasure

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For those who don't much care for the dancing, I'll just suggest that adding some custom music improves the experience.

 

I forget... where's the description on how to do that?

[HexBolt8]

37 minutes ago, Anunya said:

I forget... where's the description on how to do that?

MCM info text for the "Play dance music" setting.  It uses a wav file.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Wall-o'-text incoming!

  

On 12/25/2021 at 8:45 PM, HexBolt8 said:

Players can be broadly classified into two groups: Gamers, and Role Players.  Gamers tend to complete objectives as quickly & efficiently as possible.  A Gamer would probably head straight for the nearest map marker (even if that location hadn't been discovered yet on the playthrough).  Role Players tend to complete objectives in a manner that fits the character, the story, and the player's notions of fair and reasonable actions -- even if that means taking a longer route, or doing it inefficiently, or in a more challenging way. 

Such reductionist binaries never fully capture reality, but I don't disagree that this basic frame has some utility.  I can definitely occupy either role depending on the circumstances, but when it comes to SLTR, roleplaying is certainly the motivation for using the mod, and I've tried to make my comments predominantly from a roleplaying perspective.  But gameplay considerations are still important to this end, because getting frustrated with game mechanics is a good way to get pulled out of your roleplaying immersion. 

 

I'm also maybe just a weirdo, because even in everyday life, I make every effort to avoid inefficiency where possible.  I don't mind tradeoffs—for example, I'm happy to take the "scenic route" if it actually is more pleasurable—but just bald inefficiency, where I'm basically pissing away increments of time for no gain, drives me nuts.  So I do things like knowing the patterns of the traffic signals so that I can adapt my route to avoid waiting at zebra crossings for longer than necessary.  

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:45 PM, HexBolt8 said:

There are different aspects to loss of control.  Having to ask for something that you otherwise could have done yourself underscores loss of control.  The recent discussion of having to ask permission to sleep is in line with that.

I agree, but with two caveats.  First, in roleplaying terms, overreliance on requiring the player to ask for permission can make it start to feel like you're nagging your Mistress.  I don't think we're quite there yet, but it's getting a little uncomfortably close at times.  Second, in more gameplay terms, relying on asking for permission can clash with SLTR's greeting events to create frustration.  When you're just trying to talk to Mistress to complete some event, and she keeps starting new events every time you talk to her, it can make for some player irritation.  Sometimes you have two or three events you need to complete through dialogue all ready to "turn in", and then you get two or three greeting events in a row. 

 

I think it's important to think about how important it is for the player to control the precise timing of a particular event; for something like sleeping, you have a strong gameplay reason to leave that in player control, so asking for permission is necessary.  For other things, it doesn't really matter if it happens now or an hour from now, so adding it to the beckon event pool instead—with or without increased probability—can sidestep the above concerns.  

 

100 Score Event:

Spoiler

On 12/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, HexBolt8 said:

I have a note to have the PC kneel (not necessarily in the next update).  For now, the event still feels complete to me, especially considering the goal of being vague toward the owner's personality and attitude.

The moment when Mistress affixes the tag really doesn't feel anticlimactic to you?  I replayed the event a bunch of times while testing, and that moment just feels to me like you've built up so much anticipation to this crowning moment of the SLTR experience, and then you get two lines of dialogue and one animation that's just a repeat of the mainstays of the content from the rest of the mod.  It feels like something really unique should happen at this stage.  I obviously really like the idea I sketched out earlier, but maybe integrating a SlaveTats branding event and/or a marriage/elopement alternative event like has also been discussed could satisfy that end, too.  

 

As for vagueness, I think that can be a good design approach for a lot of things, but for an event with such a central narrative role as this, I think it'd be worth the investment to offer different sorts of players different paths, e.g. the "public vs. private ceremony" idea discussed previously.  

 

On 12/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, HexBolt8 said:

It could be expanded at some point, but I think I'd like to work on other things now.

Fair enough, certainly.  One can only do one thing at a time.  

 

On 12/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, HexBolt8 said:

Within that context, a tattoo could fit the mod. 

Are you familiar with the branding event that's included in the Extension?  It doesn't work very well.  And its implementation has nothing to do with the 100 submission event.  And it has almost no dialogue or narrative with it.  But it is a decent basic framework that could serve as a starting point, and you could even just make the Extension a soft dependency and use its animation.  Here's a sketch of how it might go:

Spoiler

1. You can ask for this through a dialogue branch with Mistress following the "something permanent" option in the first part of the event.  If you do so, then when the blacksmith asks if Mistress will be branding you today, too, you just answer, "Yes, sir/ma'am."  If you don't, you'll have a second opportunity to start when the blacksmith asks, leading you to answer to the effect that you're not sure and you'll have to ask Mistress about it.  The blacksmith then says s/he'll work on the tag in the mean time, so you go through the tag text decisions here, then progress through the blacksmith's dialogue is paused until you do so and return with an answer.  (This also solves the minor oddity of how the blacksmith makes the tag literally instantly in the current event.)
   • You could also offer a second chance to back out if you wanted, either when the blacksmith asks if you took the first path, or upon returning to Mistress if you took the second.  
2. If you've chosen this path from the start, then when the blacksmith asks and you confirm, instead of proceeding to give you the tag, the blacksmith makes his/her comment about these jobs being fun and tells you to go bend over the anvil.  If you had to return to Mistress first, then when you return to the blacksmith, s/he makes the comment and tells you to go bend over the anvil.  Either way, maybe interacting with the anvil is what initiates the animation.  
3. When you enter the "bend over the anvil" animation, Mistress walks to the other side of the anvil, and the blacksmith would walk behind the player.  As we were discussing previously, they'd need scripts to walk, but you'd want to include a "teleport to the spot" action before their subsequent actions in case they get stuck.  
4. Mistress kneels in front of you.  I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of animations that could work for this.  I know there's at least one suitable animation in either ZAP or vanilla—on one knee with the head looking downish—which is used in Home Sweet Home for the "Get down" pose under the "Pose for me, pretty!" dialogue. 
   Spoiler

   Matryoshka spoilers, yay!

   

   I don't remember for sure what the vanilla sneak animation looks like I've had it modded for so long, but I think it might be suitable, too.  

5. While you're all in position, you could have a brief dialogue where Mistress asks if you're scared and reassures you that she's right there with you.  
6. After the player-Mistress dialogue is concluded, the blacksmith asks if you're ready, and Mistress answers, "Yes."
7. The blacksmith plays the branding animation from the Extension.  You'd want to have something built in here to keep the blacksmith from returning to his/her routine immediately after animating in case the event takes place right before they'd otherwise close up shop—just leave him/her standing there until the player returns.
   • Note: One of the things that's broken about the Extension's version of this event is that, after walking to position, Mistress is allowed to resume her sandboxing package while the player animates getting in position, so then Mistress is no longer in position when she plays the branding animation, so she just brands some random air in the vicinity.  
8. I don't know of a suitable animation for this, but maybe someone else does, or maybe an animator wouldn't mind making something—it'd be a small job, and I could ask one or two folks.  At any rate, ideally, at this point, you'd all stand up, and Mistress would play some short caressing animation where she rubs your bum where you were just branded to sooth the pain a bit, then she tells you what a brave pet you were and asks you to go bring her the tag and present it like a good girl.  
9. The player talks to the blacksmith—this could basically be the remainder of the current dialogue, just adjusted slightly to reflect that the blacksmith made it while the player was talking to Mistress—and receives the tag, and the blacksmith is released to his/her normal AI package.  
10. The player kneels and talks to Mistress.  Mistress affixes the tag, and the event proceeds as it currently does or however it might be expanded in the future.

I don't think any of that would be especially difficult to develop, although I could be overlooking some complications.  You could make the Extension a soft dependency—which you may want to do anyway in pursuit of sleep events—and do everything with pre-existing assets.  I wouldn't think you'd have too steep a learning curve to get that minimal level of SlaveTats integration, which would still itself be optional—you could do the event without SlaveTats installed, and you just wouldn't actually get a visible brand.  Obviously having more configurability in terms of the appearance and location of the brand would be great, but it certainly wouldn't be necessary to make this a really positive addition; you could always add more configurability at some point in the future if you get the inclination to play with SlaveTats more.  

 

On 12/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, HexBolt8 said:

However, the part that's not a win is (just being candid) is my desire to work on it.

Absolutely fair enough.  You're a volunteer, after all, and anything you do is already well above and beyond the call of duty—and much appreciated!

 

On 12/26/2021 at 5:26 AM, HexBolt8 said:

I'd have to figure out how to make it work, then build and test it -- a feature that I might never use myself.  If I just don't want to work on something, I'll probably push back on even a good suggestion, usually by adding it to my list of possible future work with no promises.  I'm going to do that here and add this as a possible enhancement with no planned timeframe.

Well, my skillset is obviously a lot more limited, but if there's anything you're able to delegate to me or anything I can do to help bring this below your effort threshold, I'm happy to help.

  

On 1/2/2022 at 10:04 PM, HexBolt8 said:

New:  The hair change event has MCM settings for duration.
- Changing settings while the event is active won't change that event's duration.
- When the duration ends, the quest objective will complete to give you a more obvious notification.

Definitely much improved!  

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:04 PM, HexBolt8 said:

Changed:  Added elevation difference check to determine if owner should beckon.

Certainly helps, but maybe there should be a maximum distance, too, for similar reasons?  Mistress's voice can only carry so far, after all.  

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:04 PM, HexBolt8 said:

Changed:  At high score, you can kneel without being told to for "What I Want to Hear".

Love it.  I am very occasionally seeing the same issue as with the auto-kneeling with "Mistress?" though, breaking out of the dialogue upon kneeling, thus missing the last dialogue—which is an excellent dialogue!  It seems to be pretty rare; I'd say I've seen it about 1 out of 20 at worst, but not really a statistically significant sample.  Have we made any progress toward figuring out what's causing this glitch, though?  I don't get it.  

 

---

 

In the interim, my notes have grown lengthy again, too.  

• Stumbling upon the new dialogue for repeat prostitution customers was a nice surprise!  Feels like a big improvement with such a little tweak.
• I've encountered some problems with "Time to Relax".  This all occurred around Lakeview Manor.  I had previously been briefly over weight limit, e.g., as I mined the Quarried Stone needed to build the main hall.  Then, after visiting the cellar and coming back outside, Mistress wanted to bind my hands even though I was well below the weight limit (265/345 with 85% set as the threshold).  Then, upon going back inside, the dead-end "I've unburdened" option was there, but not the productive "We've reached a civilised area" option.  So I was just stuck.  For what it's worth, Nether's was correctly recognising that we were home—Mistress switched to her home outfit—but SLTR doesn't seem to have been.  

• I've been having some problems with SLTR interacting with Nether's Follower Framework; I'm not sure where the problems originate.  For events like "Run, Lola, Run!" where Mistress waits somewhere while you do a task—especially if it starts just outside of town, it seems—sometimes I get an NFF notification that Mistress "has been dismissed from slot 1", followed by the SLTR quest failing an objective to "not make Mistress run with you."  It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I have to reload a save, so it's always a fairly significant inconvenience.  Any ideas?  

• Can the leg cuffs for the ponygirl outfit match the rest of the outfit's colour?  I use red ponygirl gear, a red collar, and normally wear red cuffs, but the ponygirl cuffs are still black.

• When Mistress wants to force greet you immediately upon changing cells, but a quest NPC does too, the quest NPC takes precedence, then Mistress gets pissed and punishes you while the NPC is talking.  

• Masturbate → "If I must"—what's happening with adding a more enthusiastic option?  I was continuing to mull this over, and I also thought about maybe something to the effect of how you're sad/dejected that Mistress doesn't want to use you.  

• "Please, Mistress," is a rather pitiful effort at begging for a spanking.  How about expanding it a bit, "Please, Mistress!  Please give your devoted pet a spanking!  Pleeease!" or something along those lines?

• New "Aw, look how proud my pet is, prancing around with a shiny collar tag," dialogue.  I think this should really be "her collar tag"—it isn't just any old tag, it's mine!

• "Did I zap you too many times?  Oh, you're serious."  This feels like a really strange response to telling Mistress you love her, particularly at/near 100 submission.  Especially when it comes right after her speech in response to "I didn't think it was possible, but I actually like being your pet."  Really abrupt tone shift.  Maybe this should be removed from the pool of responses above a certain score?  And/Or reworded to be a bit less hurtful?  It could make sense if you tell Mistress you love her too early before you're well-trained, but at high submission, it just really hurts Antiope's feelings.  
• When Mistress asks you to get something to whip you with at home, I get the same "Interesting, so you like the riding crop, eh?" dialogue every time.  Why is Mistress always surprised?!  It's the only one I like!  Is there any way she can remember past choices to be able to make a different comment if you bring the same implement multiple times in a row?  Maybe something like, "Ah, your old favourite, the riding crop."
• What determines whether you get "With pleasure, Mistress.  I could gladly fuck the whole town!" vs. "I shall do as you say, Mistress," when accepting the prostitution event?  Antiope is quite willing to do as Mistress asks, but she's not so enthusiastic about banging strangers—she's only doing it for Mistress.  
• Is there any way we could get a lesbian-compatible version of the "Nympho, not a whore" option?  The option currently doesn't make any sense if you're not having sex with guys.  Just in general, something that's been clanging around my head for a long time is what it would take to be able to disable humiliation fetish content.  I haven't brought it up, because I know it'd be a much bigger job than toggling foot fetish or scat fetish stuff is, but it occurred to me that this might be a relatively low-hanging fruit to that end.  I know there's a lot of overlap in interest in dom/sub relationships and humiliation fetish content, but it's definitely not a one-to-one mapping; not everyone who's into submission is also into humiliation.  I don't know if you've read my roleplaying notes (linked in my signature), but Antiope is proud of who she is—she's not ashamed of her place at all.  A lot of this dichotomy is already evident during "Confessions of a slave," where some of the confessions are clearly orientated toward humiliation, but others are completely compatible with a more positive mindset.  I can expound upon this further, but I think I'll leave it at that until I get your reaction, as this post is quite long enough already!
• Maybe not worth the effort for such an infrequent occurrence, but every time I meet "revelers" on the road, it feels really weird and pulls me out of character.  What would it take to do something with this?  Maybe the simplest thing would be a mini-event follows after they give you the Honningbrew Mead where you have to give it to Mistress—or maybe even you simply can do?  But this event seems like it offers an opportunity to push it further, if there were a desire—there are plenty of ways Mistress and her pet could partake of revelry!

Edited January 7, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[BigOnes69]

20 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Edit:  Dancing for the jarls of all 9 holds to show everyone what a good pet you are might be a long-term quest.  I don't know what I could do for a reward, though, maybe just something for completionists to do.

The reward could be a sex party. Knight takes slave. Pawn takes slave. Bishop takes slave. Queen takes slave. Gangbang. Comment Hexbolt8 its good to be king or Jarl in this case.

Edited January 7, 2022 by BigOnes69

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

On 1/2/2022 at 4:04 PM, HexBolt8 said:

Changed:  Added elevation difference check to determine if owner should beckon.

Certainly helps, but maybe there should be a maximum distance, too, for similar reasons?  Mistress's voice can only carry so far, after all.  

Follower frameworks let the player vary the following distance a lot.  The mod checks whether the follower has been made to wait, so the assumption is that otherwise the distance is within beckoning range.  Mistress never shouts; that's unbecoming.  Lola is supposed to be watching for Mistress' gesture in the rear-view mirror.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Are you familiar with the branding event that's included in the Extension?

I really haven't looked through what's in there.  If I were to add voluntary tattooing, I'd just rely on SlaveTats's "working" notification to indicate the passage of time (as SLUTS does), or possibly a fade to black.  For sleeping permission, you'd just click the bed and sleep normally after asking permission, so I won't need an animation.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I am very occasionally seeing the same issue as with the auto-kneeling with "Mistress?" though, breaking out of the dialogue upon kneeling, thus missing the last dialogue—which is an excellent dialogue!  It seems to be pretty rare; I'd say I've seen it about 1 out of 20 at worst, but not really a statistically significant sample.  Have we made any progress toward figuring out what's causing this glitch, though?

No.  I can't reproduce the problem, so I've given up on it for now.  At a guess, a dialog or comments mod might be interfering, but it makes no sense to me that playing an idle would glitch dialog.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The moment when Mistress [REDACTED] really doesn't feel anticlimactic to you?

Probably a difference in expectations.  I see why you'd feel that way.  I guess I'm looking more at the whole event rather than one moment.  I'll probably revisit it at some time, but I prefer to work on enhancing repeating events, or adding something new and fun.  I've spent a lot of time working on prostitution for the next update.  I see a great deal of value to making improvements there.

[HexBolt8]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:52 AM, griffinjohn59 said:

there is another delay, during which yet again the wall of checking spells flies by.

In regard to the "checking spell" console messages, I came across an explanation in this discussion for another mod.  The answer is that it's due to having "debug mode" enabled in the SexLab MCM.  Turning that off will improve performance.

[ватман]

Возможен ли в вашей теме такой контент?

[ватман]

Just now, ватман said:

Возможен ли в вашей теме такой контент?

Как наказание, или награда, или квест основанный на жёстком унижении.

[CaptainJ03]

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I've been having some problems with SLTR interacting with Nether's Follower Framework; I'm not sure where the problems originate.  For events like "Run, Lola, Run!" where Mistress waits somewhere while you do a task—especially if it starts just outside of town, it seems—sometimes I get an NFF notification that Mistress "has been dismissed from slot 1", followed by the SLTR quest failing an objective to "not make Mistress run with you."  It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I have to reload a save, so it's always a fairly significant inconvenience.  Any ideas?  

Yup, that's NFF's weird timing. I've had the same problem after switching to NFF - you need to set "wait forever" in thad mod's MCM.

 

BTW, thank you for all your input. I feel the same about my char being lesbian, and being told to breed is odd. Mistress never does, although she is horny all the time, so why me?

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I've encountered some problems with "Time to Relax".

There's a slight disconnect in the trigger mechanism.  I'm not happy with the way this works. I'll look at changing how it triggers so that it's not on location change.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Then, upon going back inside, the dead-end "I've unburdened" option was there

Hmm, that shouldn't happen.  That line is only for towns, based on location keywords.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I've been having some problems with SLTR interacting with Nether's Follower Framework; I'm not sure where the problems originate.  For events like "Run, Lola, Run!" where Mistress waits somewhere while you do a task—especially if it starts just outside of town, it seems—sometimes I get an NFF notification that Mistress "has been dismissed from slot 1"....

I've never seen this, though I'm on NFF 2.7.6, which is a year old.  By the way, I see that NFF returned to Nexus back in September (a copy is still here on LL).  This mod simply issues the vanilla follower wait command:  SetAv("WaitingForPlayer", 1).  That should not cause the follower to be dismissed.  Are you having any problem when you order the follower to wait?  Anyway, I don't think there's anything that I can do.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Can the leg cuffs for the ponygirl outfit match the rest of the outfit's colour?  I use red ponygirl gear, a red collar, and normally wear red cuffs, but the ponygirl cuffs are still black.

It's possible, but I'm not eager to do it.  The prancing effect is on one set of cuffs, so there are two sets.  I'd have to create the colors for both sets.  I might be able to reuse some existing DD assets, but it doesn't have pink and probably not blue.  I'll put it on the list.

 

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

When Mistress wants to force greet you immediately upon changing cells, but a quest NPC does too, the quest NPC takes precedence, then Mistress gets pissed and punishes you while the NPC is talking.  

There are two possible sequences of events.  While the owner is trying to force greet, the script checks if that's practical.  The very first check is whether the dialog menu is open.  If you're already talking to someone else, the owner waits until you're done.  This mod tries to play nice with other mods.  However, if the owner's force greeting succeeds but is immediately interrupted by someone else's force greeting, then it looks to this mod as if you deliberately broke out of the conversation.  Unfortunately, some mods don't consider that you might already be talking, and they let their force greeting interrupt -- or the timing upon switching cells makes that impossible.  I don't know how to prevent that.  I did recently reduce the score penalty for breaking a conversation.  I wish the game supported a conversation resume option.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Masturbate → "If I must"—what's happening with adding a more enthusiastic option?

I think I forgot about it.  Okay, the wording is "As you wish, [Title].  Thank you!"  That seems reasonably enthusiastic.  The idea is that the owner offers to let you demean yourself to shut you up, and is a bit shocked if you actually agree (which is why you can also decline).  This seems okay.  Masturbation shouldn't be a satisfying outlet for Lola.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

New "Aw, look how proud my pet is, prancing around with a shiny collar tag," dialogue.  I think this should really be "her collar tag"—it isn't just any old tag, it's mine!

Since this is NPC speech, I can't use text substitution for pronouns, so I chose this wording to avoid having to create two topics for his and hers.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"Did I zap you too many times?  Oh, you're serious."

The owner is never going to give you much satisfaction in this area.  If it hurts your feelings, you'll stop saying useless things.  If you're feeling frustrated, you'll try harder -- and your efforts can never be quite good enough.  Maxing the score is simply maxing the measuring stick.  Mistress always wants more from you.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

When Mistress asks you to get something to whip you with at home, I get the same "Interesting, so you like the riding crop, eh?" dialogue every time.  Why is Mistress always surprised?!  It's the only one I like!  Is there any way she can remember past choices to be able to make a different comment if you bring the same implement multiple times in a row?  Maybe something like, "Ah, your old favourite, the riding crop."

Added to the list.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

What determines whether you get "With pleasure, Mistress.  I could gladly fuck the whole town!" vs. "I shall do as you say, Mistress," when accepting the prostitution event?

PC arousal at 80+ and score 50+.  The idea was that your needs are making you desperate (which also fits with masturbating being a poor release).  I never liked that response either.  I'll change it now to be less extreme, but it will still be enthusiastic.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Is there any way we could get a lesbian-compatible version of the "Nympho, not a whore" option?

It's intended for just that situation.  Lola can even say "But I don't like doing it with men!".  The intent was to justify forced prostitution when the owner isn't so interested in gold or humiliation.  I actually came close this week to restricting prostitution to male clients if the nympho option is enabled, but dropped that when I considered that some players might be mucking up male gender recognition with futa NPCs.  Players can just self-enforce that part.

 

If the main purpose is not gold or humiliation, this suggests that Mistress is inadequate as a sex partner for Lola.  That won't do.  If Lola is insatiable, Mistress might wish to enforce some discipline there, or dismissively let her masturbate, but why let her pet have sex with strangers just because Lola can't get enough action?

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

A lot of this dichotomy is already evident during "Confessions of a slave," where some of the confessions are clearly orientated toward humiliation, but others are completely compatible with a more positive mindset.

That might be due to burnout on my part as I struggled to produce interesting and varied confessions.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Just in general, something that's been clanging around my head for a long time is what it would take to be able to disable humiliation fetish content.

Spoiler section just because this is lengthy.

Spoiler

Humiliation is central to what this mod does.  Most (though not all) events involve some degree of humiliation.  This is justified by the owner's stated belief that Lola secretly wants to be humiliated.  If that's not true, and Lola loves being paraded through town naked -- not because she likes feeling naughty, not because she enjoys having her devotion tested -- none of this works.  If she likes being on public display and would do it on her accord, then forcing it is meaningless.  Hell, it's a reward.  Would she like ice cream with that, too?

 

Lola becomes a slave.  That's supposed to be humiliating.  Implicit in the premise is that Lola gets far more than she expected when she accepts a collar.  The 100 score event is the culmination of Lola's training, when she accepts her collar and slave status.  That's supposed to be at the end of a long road.  If she's proud to be a collared slave and loving every minute from day one, there's no journey.

 

The owner is constantly pushing Lola beyond the limits of what she's comfortable with.  If we remove anything with humiliation, that's a pretty tame experience.  It's just sex games with bondage gear and a few toys.  I suppose Lola could be made to wear a butt plug that's too large to be comfortable, but that's not very interesting.

 

I do try to separate humiliation from cruelty, acknowledging that it's all subjective in a mod that makes the player character a freaking slave, and a prostitute, and shocks and whips her.

 

I don't want to spoil anyone's fantasy or preferred role play, but I think the humiliation aspect is what makes the content interesting.  Probably the #1 criticized feature is sweeping.  It's submissive, but it's boring.  It's not humiliating.

 

Think about this and give some thought to what a mod can reasonably deliver.  You're probably aware of DD Helpers, which has bondage and being tied up, no humiliation.  It's a nice mod, but how exciting is it?  You might also consider what makes roleplay in a game fun for you.  I'm not all suggesting that your fantasy is somehow wrong, but might it not be more interesting if your character has to change to become a proud slave, perhaps being forced to acknowledge desires that initially shame her?  Lots to think about.

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Maybe not worth the effort for such an infrequent occurrence, but every time I meet "revelers" on the road, it feels really weird and pulls me out of character.

Because it's a vanilla event and therefore tame?  ?  SexLab Solutions offers sex with the revelers.  I'm open to suggestions, but for compatibility I won't tamper with the quest itself.  I can add dialog to revelers and probably link it to any reveler quest stages.

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Yup, that's NFF's weird timing. I've had the same problem after switching to NFF - you need to set "wait forever" in thad mod's MCM.

Thank you for this explanation.  I use "wait forever" so that's why I never see the problem.

 

1 hour ago, CaptainJ03 said:

BTW, thank you for all your input.

Seconded.  Sometimes I forget to thank people for all their thoughtful feedback.

 

1 hour ago, CaptainJ03 said:

I feel the same about my char being lesbian, and being told to breed is odd. Mistress never does, although she is horny all the time, so why me?

I can answer this one!  You're special.  I tried to convey that in the owner's remarks.  Your girl a nymphomaniac.  She has a physical need for insemination, usually referred to more delicately as breeding.  If she doesn't get it, and regularly, she gets moody -- think bipolar, manic-depressive.  Your owner hates those moods, but as a female she can't deliver what you need (and no, bottled semen isn't sufficient).  Prostitution gets you "serviced" and makes money.  The owner might have a strong sex drive, but she doesn't have your physical need.

 

I added this option to handle a lesbian pair where the owner is exceptionally caring (or possessive) and would rather not whore you out.  (This could also work for a vampiric male owner who can't or won't engage in sex.)  But as a player I want forced prostitution.  The nympho option justifies it.  If you think this is strange or silly, keep "nympho" off and use the regular dialog.  Or turn off prostitution, if you don't think it fits.  Greed and/or humiliation seem to be good justification for prostitution for other situations, but if there's another gap, I'm open to suggestions.

 

3 hours ago, ватман said:

Возможен ли в вашей теме такой контент?

[Is this content possible in your theme?]

The mod has one urination event, but I probably will not be adding others.

Edited January 7, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Pyreliter]

Fishburger's "Sex Slaves" has/had a very interesting and compelling chain of events whenever you went down the play through with Andrew. You got to experience items and scenarios while learning about him (and yourself?). There was excitement in the search and discovery while keeping in the theme of subservience through progression. Skyrim Romance incorporated a very convoluted, yet compelling chain of events that progressed the relationship between the player's character and Bishop. I feel it would be worthwhile to study the reward of similar event progressions in comparison to the time and effort required to code and test such scenarios when possibly linking the events of SL:tR with stages of submission.

Several have suggested in past and present to incorporate scenarios from other sources as Captured Dreams, Pet Project, Public Whore, Sexlab Survival, Slaverun, Wartimes, YPS Fashion. I want to wish you more than just luck as this new year at Loverslab unfolds.

Your Submissive Lola : The Resubmission seems to have become 'heir apparent' to the hopes and dreams of many who yearn to see a revisit to the events and scenarios of other mods in which the replay-ability and opportunity for new discoveries keep folks returning to Loverslab and Skyrim.

[bnub345]

I have now looked through the dance mods that I could find - Shake It, the updated Shake It Some More, and Let's Dance Again. Honestly, it was probably a waste of time. If anyone has made quality dance animations for Skyrim, I don't know where they are. If HexBolt8 wants to update the dances, Let's Dance Again is probably the best bet. Still, at least half of the anims have clipping/teleporting/static pose problems. And this is obviously subjective, but of the remaining anims without technical issues, there were maybe two that I would like seeing more than once.

[HexBolt8]

9 minutes ago, Pyreliter said:

Your Submissive Lola : The Resubmission seems to have become 'heir apparent' to the hopes and dreams of many who yearn to see a revisit to the events and scenarios of other mods in which the replay-ability and opportunity for new discoveries keep folks returning to Loverslab and Skyrim.

Okay, I won't feel any pressure or anything.  

 

18 minutes ago, Pyreliter said:

Captured Dreams

Laura's Bondage Shop is doing a great job carrying the torch forward for this classic.

 

10 minutes ago, Pyreliter said:

I feel it would be worthwhile to study the reward of similar event progressions in comparison to the time and effort required to code and test such scenarios when possibly linking the events of SL:tR with stages of submission.

The issue there would be time.  If there are progression ideas that interest people, maybe they'd be willing to summarize the ideas.  That said, the progression in this mod is mostly illusion.  It's the way the mod is built.  There's a score to measure submissiveness, and many events and some dialog options open up as it increases, but there's no story element.  Except for a single one-time event at 100 score, events randomly trigger.  Players can play along with the feeling of progression by selecting different responses over time (I often start with reluctant, then move to accepting, them enthusiastic), but the player drives that.  New progression elements would probably have to fit this model.

 

18 minutes ago, bnub345 said:

If HexBolt8 wants to update the dances, Let's Dance Again is probably the best bet.

Thank you for going out and checking.  I had looked through that one in the past.  I didn't find anything that seemed all that satisfactory.  If you have a specific animation suggestion, I can take another look, but my impression is that it's more of the same with regard to existing animations.  At one time I did carefully go through the dances posted in a thread on LL, but they either were too modern, had excessive body distortion, or had camera-in-the-sky syndrome (for which manually bringing the camera back to Earth is just not satisfactory).

[HexBolt8]

I'll add one more thing with regard to humiliation in general and prostitution in particular.  I've been making additions and changes to prostitution this week (including a new mode that probably won't interest many people, but I'll use it).  I've changed language that is derogatory and denigrating to be humiliating instead.  Rather being told that you are a sex toy, you're told you like being made to be one because that secretly excites you.  Instead of being told that you're useless except as a whore, you're told that whoring is what you're best at.  This might not seem like a big change, but if the owner is sincere, these are actually positive statements.

 

Earlier dialog was probably influenced by the Devious Followers mindset, where the follower will frequently gaslight and undermine the player's confidence.  That has a place here (it's a form of control), but it seems better to focus on humiliation and "corruption" rather than incompetence and loss of confidence.  I'm reluctant to use the term "corruption", but it suggests an evolution away from socially normal proper behavior.  Lola puts on that collar probably expecting a bit of kinky sex and being tied up, but she gets a LOT more.

 

You're repeatedly told that you secretly want everything the owner does to you, no matter how embarrassing, shameful, or taboo.  The owner reinforces that idea by telling you that it's the humiliation itself that you desire.  You want to be made to feel naughty and dirty (if it weren't humiliating, you wouldn't feel dirty, you'd be happy and proud of what you're doing).  The owner claims to be helping you, by forcing you to achieve your "true potential".  You should be grateful for all the humiliation your hard-working owner provides.  You're praised for doing sordid things, and told that you're making progress if you thank your owner for it.  The more you accept this, the more willing you become to go further.  That's what the owner wants.

 

The interpretation is entirely up to the player:

 

Spoiler

The owner is sincere, believes everything he/she says, and is right about Lola.  The human player can decide how self-aware Lola is.  Is this a big revelation, one that's hard to accept at first but gradually becomes exciting?  Did she have some idea about this, and was fascinated with the book?  Does she already know her nature, and can't wait to be pushed to go further and further?  Happy ending, or dream come true.

 

The owner is sincere, believes everything he/she says, but is mistaken about Lola.  You're forced along a path you don't want.  You can resist all the way, or give in and let yourself believe that it's true.  If the enslavement is consensual, you should end it.  Otherwise, you're in for a rough ride.  Some players eventually seek out bad endings for their characters, and this would fit.  A moment's foolishness putting on a collar, and your life is changed forever.  At best, you accept the lie.

 

The owner is insincere, simply seeking to control and toy with you, but happens to be right about Lola.  Lola will be happy, and the owner will be pleasantly surprised.  Win-win.

 

The owner is insincere, simply seeking to control and toy with Lola, and Lola is not like that.  Abusive relationship.  Lola should get out.  This is pretty dark, a nightmare ending.

 

Lola might be an aimless drifter and a blank slate.  A strong hand might be exactly what she wants.  She knows she needs direction.  She's watched the owner from afar.  She admires this person, and she's sexually attracted.  As a slave she'll have direction and be with this fascinating person who otherwise would have ignored her.  One thing a slave is certain to get is attention.

 

Perhaps Lola is a self-destructive personality who seeks out a stern master to give her the treatment she thinks she deserves.  That could go different ways, but a happy ending is possible if all the owner's talk turns out to be true, the experience awakens inner desires that Lola never knew she had, and she finds fulfillment.

 

This is all fantasy.  I hope players can interpret the language and events to fit what they're looking for.  I try to keep motives vague and certain things unexpressed to allow a wide range of interpretation.  You'll never know the owner's true intentions.  You'll never be certain whether the owner loves you or is cynically using you.  The owner is playful and likes keeping you guessing.

 

However, humiliation is a strong component of the mod, so players will have to reconcile that.  Without a personality system for the owner and the player character (and the playmate), which would be a massive undertaking, there's no way to accommodate everything.  Anyway, my intent here was to explain the direction I've been taking and what I'm trying to achieve.

[HexBolt8]

15 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I've encountered some problems with "Time to Relax".  This all occurred around Lakeview Manor.  I had previously been briefly over weight limit, e.g., as I mined the Quarried Stone needed to build the main hall.  Then, after visiting the cellar and coming back outside, Mistress wanted to bind my hands even though I was well below the weight limit (265/345 with 85% set as the threshold).

For the next update:

 

Changed:  "Time to Relax" conditions are now checked every 20 seconds, rather than immediately upon location change.
- This eliminates situations where you become burdened, remove the extra weight, then quickly change location and the owner thinks you're still overburdened.
- When you reach town and unload, the mod might be slow to notice.  Talk to your owner a second time to update the weight change.

 

Unless you're unlucky* with the update cycle, if you fast travel home right after exiting a dungeon, you should be able to get inside before "Time to Relax" starts.

 

Because the weight check has to come late in the periodic update, other events might delay the start.  If the owner decides to vibrate you, the quest waits until you've stopped twitching.  If the owner or demands sex due to extreme arousal (the owner's, not yours, slave), Time to Relax gets delayed.  You're not as much fun with your hands tied.

 

*If you're unlucky, you might see your owner beckoning just before you reach the door.  Once inside:

Owner:  "You're carrying too much.  Let me tie your hands."

Lola:  "But we're already home, baka!"

Severe beating ensues.

[HexBolt8]

Well, this is funny.  Sort of.  Prostitution has always had player response choices at the conclusion.  I just noticed that they never worked.  I'd added a fourth player choice this week, then noticed during testing that none of this was available.  D'oh!

 

I've fixed this.  The player has a choice of Defiant, Unhappy, Accepting, and Thankful responses.  If you think of it as a progression, the attitudes are anger, denial, acceptance, and happiness.

 

The Accepting responses tend to have longer owner replies.  This is the phase where the owner is pushing the idea that you actually like being made to do this work.  A Thankful response earns you a score increase.  Unhappy lets you object, without being punished.  You can guess what Defiant does.

Edited January 8, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Antiope_Apollonia]

The draft I was almost finished writing before The Crash wasn't restored.  RIP several hours of my life.

[CaptainJ03]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The draft I was almost finished writing before The Crash wasn't restored.  RIP several hours of my life.

I can feel the pain. That's the exact reason why I always write longer posts in an external editor. I'd say that every forum I'd ever been on, had problems saving my posting for the weirdest of reasons. Absolutely hated timeouts: when you needed a second longer than 30 minutes, all was lost.

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The draft I was almost finished writing before The Crash wasn't restored.  RIP several hours of my life.

Ouch, that hurts.  There's nothing quite so demoralizing as losing one's work.  Your responses tend to have some good insights, so it's a loss all around.  Sometimes I'll split longer responses into parts, and I'm in the habit of copying everything to clipboard before pressing the submit button.

[HexBolt8]

I'd hoped to get the next update out this past weekend for people to play with, but The Crash ended that.  At least I got to finish it at my leisure.  And if I'd published it then and there were problems, people wouldn't have had support for a while.  I also started work on a new project, which is well underway, so the time was productive.