Switching from Vortex to MO2... A short rant.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

27 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Seriously, why are you doing that with MO active?

doing what? failing at creating .fuz files? 1 time I tried with going though MO. I do everything else through MO,why not try?

 

 

34 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

create a mod from the overwrite

I never create new mods with overwrite folder content?Unless it is literally a new mod. I always put contents with parent mod, parent mod is separate inside MO.Mods folder and all contents for specific mod will go into parent mods MO/Mods folder. I have heard users say leave all contents inside overwrite folder, what about when you uninstall a mod with contents inside overwrite folder?You go through and find that content and remove it? Almost the same with creating a new mod,why? Just drag and drop into parent mod,quicker and easier. I use computer that allows me to drag and drop,it's so easy.

 

 

37 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

very fact that you can futz with the data (database) and it not completely loose it's shit is a testimony that MO2 is solid and better.

MO rules! 

 

You still have to futz with data to do some things with in CK,regardless to whether or not your launching ck from with in MO, create back ups even if you think you know what your doing, so easy. 

39 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

can recover from tomfoolery like that is fucking amazing.

I have done little tomfoolery with my data, and I have pristine backups on drive,no doubt. Right now my data(MO User)is not pristine, i have various scripts in my scripts folder from SL,Racemenu,skse scripts. There is no harm with how I have my data currently, thankfully if I felt my data was compromised I have the backups. 

 

 

 

Maybe you thought I was attacking MO? I stopped attacking NMM in forums because it was rude and people didn't like it, and nothing has changed on my end with MO, still love it. 

[RitualClarity]

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

doing what? failing at creating .fuz files? 1 time I tried with going though MO. I do everything else through MO,why not try?

No.. the thing I was getting at was making changes to the files folders and moving them while MO was still on or active. Nothing to do with .fuz.. I was stating that in place of the other F Word.. lol

 

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

 

I never create new mods with overwrite folder content?Unless it is literally a new mod. I always put contents with parent mod, parent mod is separate inside MO.Mods folder and all contents for specific mod will go into parent mods MO/Mods folder. I have heard users say leave all contents inside overwrite folder, what about when you uninstall a mod with contents inside overwrite folder?You go through and find that content and remove it? Almost the same with creating a new mod,why? Just drag and drop into parent mod,quicker and easier. I use computer that allows me to drag and drop,it's so easy.

I move to the parent mod as well.. except I do so with MO off... not active. I do it with the files folders in MO and have zero issues. I agree with this by theyway..

Also you should keep Overwrites folder clean.

 

Drag and drop into the parent mod is quicker and easier and exactly the way I do it. The point was do it while MO is off accessing the files folders and just move them around as you desire then start MO. That would solve all your problems. Early on I had a glitch once or twice where I lost the file and it ended up in the data folder because MO froze.. (longer than you experience. MO has come so long since now.. so I am confident in moving files while MO is active but .. why?  I don't see it as necessary. At least for me.

 

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

 

MO rules! 

Yes it does. I tried Vortex and hated it. It was too convoluted to do the same things I can to in MO with a few clicks. (active or not)

 

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

 

You still have to futz with data to do some things with in CK,regardless to whether or not your launching ck from with in MO, create back ups even if you think you know what your doing, so easy. 

Sorry, didn't realize it was using CK through MO. I don't understand why you have to use MO active if not launching CK from MO. It seems as if you would just be doing CK normally and then create a mod from the resulting files from CK then drop them into MO (inactive still) but I will be honest, I have limited if any experience with CK some with gECK but only some and a long time ago. I will take your word on it.

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

I have done little tomfoolery with my data, and I have pristine backups on drive,no doubt. Right now my data(MO User)is not pristine, i have various scripts in my scripts folder from SL,Racemenu,skse scripts. There is no harm with how I have my data currently, thankfully if I felt my data was compromised I have the backups. 

Who hasn't done some (many times lots ) of tomfoolery with game data... LOL. I was trying to point out that you might want to deacvate MO whenever possible so that that error wouldn't happen. Not that it is  a big deal and as I mentioned before, doubt it will drop files and such when it freezes now. But if it isn't necessary, Why?  However, if it is absolutely necessary.. then like you said. Just a bit of an issue. Not even worth really mentioning (except not to freak out someone new when that happens )

4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Maybe you thought I was attacking MO? I stopped attacking NMM in forums because it was rude and people didn't like it, and nothing has changed on my end with MO, still love it. 

I didn't think you were attacking MO at all. Just trying to give you a pointer as I just couldn't understand why someone would do that while MO was active.. didn't take into account the CK through MO issue. 

Attacking MO is rude but fine in my book. Some will and some will always do so.  Nothing different than someone attacking or going after Vortex when a debate comes up between Vortex and MO.

 

I also still love MO and can't see anything else coming along which will change my mind.

 

[RitualClarity]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:14 AM, Grey Cloud said:

 

It's funny how the same people who tell us how wonderful MO is and how bad Vortex is never mention that Tannin was the chief designer of both.

I tell people how wonderful MO is and give examples... and yes, I many times in the past stated that Tannin worked on both. It doesn't matter. Tanning had instructions to do things a particular way and he was working with the NMM dev team so of course the final product will be different.

 

I also state if Vortex is great for you and you understand it and get great results.. please keep with Vortex.  NMM however, is now in open source and lagging behind in development and even the dedicated thread here discussing NMM reports issues and problems with the current versions. It isn't reliable now as a prime time mod manager. Hopefully someone will be able to bring it up to standard where it works properly and can handle some of the more complex mods in Fallout 4 (specifically) that have been shown to fail randomly in NMM. Once that is stable as MO or Vortex then I will be happy to tell people to continue to use NMM until then.. I can't when giving support.

 

[27X]

6 hours ago, worik said:

I've never noticed that. And I was using MO1 for 5+X years before I switched to MO2

Again. ? I think I tried that once in 2018 and I can't remember anything special.

Do you know more details?

Would that affect MO2, too?

 

Never had either happen because nothing gaming or content creation related ever touches program files or program files x86.

[Tlam99]

A question to move files to parent folder.

The way I do it right now, I create an empty mod named after the char/pc and put all the overwrite into it.

So I can activte the proper part for each char. 

Is there a better way to handle this ? Moving the files into parent, will you then not loose the control ?

Just want to understand it right to get ahead on my learning curve.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

1 hour ago, RitualClarity said:

That would solve all your problem

When did I start having "All" my problems?  I said it only happens every once and awhile? Only last a few seconds.

 

And my rule of thumb is if I do any work that changes any info I do a fresh start with MO. So after sometimes numerous drag and drops for usually multiple mods I do 1 xedit launch to sort masters and or other things and I shut down and reload MO. 

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

34 minutes ago, 27X said:

Never had either happen because nothing gaming or content creation related ever touches program files or program files x86.

What? Never had that happen when making mods? Really?

 

 

MO freezing for a second when transfering from overwrite to parent mod with MO active? doesnt touch program files? Okay? What would you even know anyways. I remember you clearly telling another user to keep stuff in overwrite. If your not dragging and dropping,and it never happened for you?

 

And what does failing to create .fuz files in CK when launched through MO have to do program files x86?  Never had that happen huh?

[RitualClarity]

31 minutes ago, T-lam said:

A question to move files to parent folder.

The way I do it right now, I create an empty mod named after the char/pc and put all the overwrite into it.

So I can activte the proper part for each char. 

Is there a better way to handle this ? Moving the files into parent, will you then not loose the control ?

Just want to understand it right to get ahead on my learning curve.

MO is fliexible. You can create folders outside of it and put all your mods files into it and drop the new folder into Mods folder in MO and it would work (provided you have proper folder structure. You can do like @Heroine of the Night does and drag the files into the parent folder from the overwrite folder. (I never really did that.) Or like I do and work the files inside MO's Mod Folder drag and drop them around until they are in the folders that I want them to be in.  So many choices. The only key thing is to 1. make sure you have a proper folder structure. 2. that you do as Heroine stated above .. do a fresh start of MO.  You should be perfectly find then. The overwrite folder is designed to 1. take all files that MO doesn't know what to do with and 2. be used to create mods (and indirectly move files to the parent folder if needed)

 

[27X]

30 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

What? Never had that happen when making mods? Really?

 

 

MO freezing for a second when transfering from overwrite to parent mod with MO active? doesnt touch program files? Okay? What would you even know anyways. I remember you clearly telling another user to keep stuff in overwrite. If your not dragging and dropping,and it never happened for you?

 

And what does failing to create .fuz files in CK when launched through MO have to do program files x86?  Never had that happen huh?

You haven't the faintest idea how virtualization actually works or how windows treats virtual links and files is why and second you keep mods in the process of being updated with live and continual patches in the overwrite until such time as the patches or updates are deemed to be pristine against the rest of the load order because that's what the overwrite folder is for.

[Tlam99]

1 hour ago, RitualClarity said:

and indirectly move files to the parent folder if needed)

Ok, then I will just leave it the way it is.

I see then no advantage then to move the files to the parent. 

Have a mod for each char makes it for me more transparent.

Like I do with bodyslide builds, allows to change the build on the fly by just activating a mod or set parts of it to hidden.

 

Just need to do an update of the mod with the ov before changing the pc.

The big advantage of the virtuell filesystem, allows to do what best suits you.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

9 hours ago, 27X said:

faintest idea how virtualization actually works or how windows treats virtual links

nonsense

 

[swords and sandals]

Interesting discussion. I drag and drop files from Overwrite into the parent mods all the time, with MO active and running, and never experience any freezes or slowdown of any sort. For example, usually when building an outfit's meshes in BodySlide the tri files will end up in overwrite. I drag and drop them into the outfit mod after closing BodySlide. If an ini file is created by a mod while playing, I drag and drop it into the parent mod after playing. It's always been instant and seamless. The only thing I've noticed is that if I expand the file tree in overwrite to see what's in there I can no longer drag and drop it at all until I close and then reopen overwrite. I've got used to that and barely even notice it any more.

 

In general, it's a shame that topics like this - no matter how well-intentioned they are - always seem to end up with champions of one manager insulting champions of another, and vice versa. It reminds me of the Xbox vs PlayStation console "wars." Personally, I swear by MO (and these days, MO2.) I had a look at Vortex when it came out, knowing full-well that it was developed by Tannin, but there was too much about it I didn't like, and the things I did like I could already do - in simpler ways that I was already familiar with - with MO2. So, MO2 is the best option out of those available for me. That does not mean it's the best option for everyone else, or that anyone who doesn't like it or simply prefers an alternative manager is wrong and deserves to be mocked for it. Whichever manager a player is happiest and most comfortable using is the right choice.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

20 minutes ago, merManc said:

I drag and drop files from Overwrite into the parent mods all the time, with MO active and running, and never experience any freezes or slowdown

Curious, do you keep steam in offline mode? I do, in addition I keep everything in steam folders. On my ending some tools will choke sometimes(3-4 times a year) Try to launch skse or xedit,last time it was ck(it wouldnt load) I suspect maybe same thing in play? The solution is always for me to clear dl cashe in steam,something most users seem to never have to do. I think those steam updates chokes us users that keep steam in offline mode? I had one of the good moderators at nexus tip me off on this though they mentioned nothing about steam updates it was presented as something that helps some users(Steamworkshop mods dont do good with process)

 

You guys can marvel at why I get burned for 5 extra seconds every 1 out 25 times I drag and drop,its so funny. If you guys are like MO is so perfect,"It cant be", Im with you! Unless you keep files in your overwrites folders,no good. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, merManc said:

it's a shame that topics like this - no matter how well-intentioned they are - always seem to end up with champions of one manager insulting champions of another, and vice versa.

 

You can do some things with NMM that is harder to do with MO. I think more so the opposite but apples and oranges if you got a strong set up. 

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

43 minutes ago, merManc said:

noticed is that if I expand the file tree in overwrite to see what's in there I can no longer drag and drop it at all until I close and then reopen overwrite

Me too. Sucks so bad!  

 

The worst thing a MO user can ever do, is accidently/unknowingly open groups tab and change from no groups. I did this one time,somehow on accident,and holy smokes,the worst. 

 

 

 

 

[spoiler/]

[swords and sandals]

42 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Curious, do you keep steam in offline mode? I do, in addition I keep everything in steam folders.

 

I log into Steam before playing (and if I ever forget, MO2 prompts me to log in before launching the game or any tool.) I close the Steam window after logging in. Honestly, I'm not sure if that means offline mode or not. I have in-game overlay and notifications disabled, and all the social/messaging stuff off as well. I basically fire and forget as far as Steam is concerned.

 

MO2 itself has its own folder on the same drive as Steam, but not in any of the Steam folders. I have an MO2 folder containing a sub-folder for each game I use it with (currently only Skyrim LE and Fallout 4) and each of those folders contains the entire MO2 installation for that game.

[worik]

1 hour ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Curious, do you keep steam in offline mode?

I do.

And I make use of the many options in MO2 to have things in various places all over my disks.

Only my vailla Skyrim install is in a somewhat "default" steam-ish location.

All else is MO2's job to fetch whatever stuff the current profile needs

 

24 minutes ago, merManc said:

(currently only Skyrim LE and Fallout 4) and each of those folders contains the entire MO2 installation for that game.

I did that the same way with MO1, will probaby think about it for MO2 but LE is currently the only game I have to bother with.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

2 hours ago, merManc said:

Honestly, I'm not sure if that means offline mode or not.

sounds like online mode to me. I only play skyrim through steam so I keep offline. 

 

2 hours ago, merManc said:

MO2 itself has its own folder on the same drive as Steam, but not in any of the Steam folders.

I keep my MO1 in steam/steamapps/common/skyrim folder. I use to keep it on same drive as Steam but at some time I moved it. Don't recall ever hearing either way is bad with MO1. 

[pinky6225]

4 hours ago, merManc said:

 

I log into Steam before playing (and if I ever forget, MO2 prompts me to log in before launching the game or any tool.) I close the Steam window after logging in. Honestly, I'm not sure if that means offline mode or not. I have in-game overlay and notifications disabled, and all the social/messaging stuff off as well. I basically fire and forget as far as Steam is concerned.

 

MO2 itself has its own folder on the same drive as Steam, but not in any of the Steam folders. I have an MO2 folder containing a sub-folder for each game I use it with (currently only Skyrim LE and Fallout 4) and each of those folders contains the entire MO2 installation for that game.

You have to go to the Steam option in steam and say restart in offline mode and then next time you open it will keep asking if you wanna go online or stay in offline mode but if your playing skyrim LE it prolly doesnt matter as it hasn't been updated recently as far as i know, SE keeps getting updates still which have a tendacy to break stuff so i stay in offline mode for that

 

Why steam removed the option of "don't update" i don't get as the available options are a variety of yes do an update which tends to break mods until they are updated to whatever the latest version is, i had the same issue with fallout 4 although havent played that in ages so they might have finished support for it by now

[BufusTurbo]

My experience with vortex after years of happy NMM usage:

 

Downloaded it, installed, launched. Looked at it.


Uttered "What the fucking hell is this and who's the great gangly fuck-knuckled twat that came up with it?!"

Uninstalled. Never looked at it again.

[swords and sandals]

1 hour ago, pinky6225 said:

You have to go to the Steam option in steam and say restart in offline mode and then next time you open it will keep asking if you wanna go online or stay in offline mode but if your playing skyrim LE it prolly doesnt matter as it hasn't been updated recently as far as i know, SE keeps getting updates still which have a tendacy to break stuff so i stay in offline mode for that

 

Why steam removed the option of "don't update" i don't get as the available options are a variety of yes do an update which tends to break mods until they are updated to whatever the latest version is, i had the same issue with fallout 4 although havent played that in ages so they might have finished support for it by now

 

Hmm. From the sounds of that, it might be an idea if I check if something has changed. It's been a long time since I fiddled with the Steam options, but I think I set them to only update a game when I launch it (which technically never happens with games I mod, because I always launch them through MO) and to only auto-update games at something like 3-4 in the morning (when my PC is almost never on.) I can't remember if those settings were for all games or specific games, but it always allowed me to avoid updates until I and any mods were ready for them.

[RitualClarity]

18 hours ago, 27X said:

You haven't the faintest idea how virtualization actually works or how windows treats virtual links and files is why and second you keep mods in the process of being updated with live and continual patches in the overwrite until such time as the patches or updates are deemed to be pristine against the rest of the load order because that's what the overwrite folder is for.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP GIVING WRONG INFO!

Normally I have you blocked but seeing some posts after yours I had to check.

 

Do whatever you want in your MO system. That is the beauty of this, however, don't give the wrong info as a fact.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/473728-mod-organizer/page-235#entry7250952

 

Tannin himself states

Quote

The Overwrite-mod was never intended to be permanent place for files, stuff that ends in overwrite should be moved back to a mod,

There are abundant Step and other guides, post and such that have the info that Overwrite is a TEMPORARY  file for things that need a home.  Only exception is any files that are constantly being destroyed and recreated each start of a game. 

 

I have the capture, the quote from the capture and gave the link to the page on Nexus where Tannin states this.  I have used MO back in the early Beta stages and it has always used Overwrite as a "catch all" folder to keep files from dropping into the data folder if there isn't a proper home for them. The intent is you create a mod or move those files to proper location.

 

More info on Bashed Patches from S.T.E.P.S

Quote

he Bashed Patch is In Overwrite to enable user to Save separate ones for each Profile even though You can't use like other Mods Its easier than making new ones, this applies for FNIS and SkyProc Mods.
The User must Manually organize Profile Specific Versions
Until such time as a better method is found these advanced features will cause the same problems for all multi-profile Mod Managers
 
Just to repeat
 
When Overwrite warning is received move the files immediately back to original location that's why the warning is given
 
Overwrite will stay empty for next use and Mods will have the correct Precedence not be last because they were left in Overwrite

 

 

[RitualClarity]

17 hours ago, T-lam said:

Ok, then I will just leave it the way it is.

I see then no advantage then to move the files to the parent. 

Have a mod for each char makes it for me more transparent.

Like I do with bodyslide builds, allows to change the build on the fly by just activating a mod or set parts of it to hidden.

 

Just need to do an update of the mod with the ov before changing the pc.

The big advantage of the virtuell filesystem, allows to do what best suits you.

The goal is to have a mod created from the Overwrite for the different profiles. However, If you don't have different profiles and no need of that special effect you shouldn't have a problem with files there. However, new files and such will be dropped there and you will eventually end up with a mess there. That is the reason there is a warning given for files in the Overwrite. It is intended to be empty before you start playing the game.
 

To be honest sometimes I was lazy and left some files there instead of creating a proper mod or as @Heroine of the Night does .. move the file to the proper (parent) mod.  However, I did have issues many times with something not working properly and it ended up being my messy Overwrites folder. Overwriting all the mods and messing something up for me.

 

that is the beauty of MO you can do what you want to do provided you understand the underlying tech and what will possibly happen. Very flexible.

[Reap3r6]

Im to terrified to try any mod organizer after reading around a little. I just tell my self screw it, then I try another one to how it feels lol. Its personal experience really.

[RitualClarity]

1 minute ago, Reap3r6 said:

Im to terrified to try any mod organizer after reading around a little. I just tell my self screw it, then I try another one to how it feels lol. Its personal experience really.

Watch Gophers or GamerPoets videos first .. then make an judgement. It seems harder than it actually is. Finally there are many here that use the mod manager .. Many are actual Mod Authors (as it gives some nice features for those users) so if you run into a question.. there are plenty that can help

[Grey Cloud]

As the above. Plus: once you make your choice, stick with and learn the, shall we say, various foibles of that manager.