noplacetorun Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I've decided to share my very recent experience about thugs and Mistwatch. Here we go. Yesterday my character was enslaved by thugs and got to Mistwatch, it was the first visit to Mistwatch for my character, so the drawbridge and some doors were locked, that caused lots of troubles obviously, but the bandits who won't stop attacking me were the most troublesome. So today I've loaded an old savegame and went to the Mistwatch by myself to turn the drawbridge and get the key to open all locked doors. I've also toggled "god mode", so no one could kill me while I do that. I did what I came for and then left everyone intact. Some time later I've got enslaved by thugs and they led me to Mistwatch (had to reload couple of times, because they won't take you to Mistwatch everytime, but that's ok). I was quite surprised when bandits at the Mistwatch were neutral to me and my thug-master(s). So this time there were no issues with thugs nor drawbridge nor even doors. But I've noticed some other issues this time. First of all, when you enter the tower, if you enter after your master it will probably (I say probably because I only tried it twice) glitch and you'll end up running ahead of your master so when you come to your new master, she (is it always a girl?) won't take you as her slave while the thug-master is releasing you so you are free from that point. So what you need to do is enter the tower before your master, that way thug will be ahead and scene will work properly. Also in tower you cant control yourself until you got sold to a new master, and sometimes you can stuck on footsteps for 1-5 seconds or longer even, you can use "End" to unstuck of course, however, it will stop you from further movement, so you'll need to repeatedly mash an "End" button to catch up with your master until you got sold. And one last thing. it seems like your new master at the tower sometimes wants to lock you up in some small cage, but when she opens up the cage it takes control of your character and tries to make you walk in, but instead you bumping into the wall of that cage and after some time, if you are lucky, you'll glitch into the cage and master will close the door, But sometimes, if you are unlucky,you'll  just stop bumping into it and your master glitch into it instead of you and then she will take a nap there (or maybe it is not a bug at all?). There is also a moment, when you can try to enter the cage by yourself, but there is like invisible wall or something behind the door.
Iroha Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 it seems like your new master at the tower sometimes wants to lock you up in some small cage, but when she opens up the cage it takes control of your character and tries to make you walk in, but instead you bumping into the wall of that cage and after some time, if you are lucky, you'll glitch into the cage and master will close the door, But sumetimes, if you are unlucky,you'll  just stop bumping into it and your master glitch into it instead of you and then she will take a nap there (or maybe it is not a bug at all?). There is also a moment, when you can try to enter the cage by yourself, but there is like invisible wall or something behind the door. :Dlaughed to tearsÂ
bjornk Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013   What about having the thugs "knock out" the player and just teleport them to their destination, where they get introduced to their new master? Enslavement works pretty well, it's getting from A to B that causes the problems. Teleport would also mean the player wakes up without knowing where the heck they are or exactly how to get out!  Good idea, maybe it's possible to choose between teleport and classic way to the thug master.  For the knock out option, I wonder if there is a console command for that (I mean, the ragdoll animation, that we can see after each SD sex scene, for exemple.), because I'm trying to create a mod with a storyline, and I would like to start the script quest with the female PCbeing knocked down (visible scene), and then black screen, and wake up in the fisrt zone of my mod.   I was saving this for SD2 discussions but anyway, I think something like this would be cool: First of all, with the installation of SD the PC is always set to essential (can not die) and all defeats end with an SD scenario, which is either an ordinary enslavement or a randomly chosen scenario, which can include enslavement, but not always.  Here are the stages: PC gets defeated -> bleedout animation starts -> screen fades out (fades to black) -> a scenario gets chosen -> PC changes location -> screen fades in -> the chosen scenario starts to runIt would be better if the bleedout animation can be replaced with a rag doll fall, to make it look like vanilla death animation, but it's okay if that's not possible. The important part is the scenario selection. If the aggressor belongs to an enslaving faction then ordinary enslavement gets started. Otherwise, we choose a random scenario. The randomly chosen scenario can be an enslavement by a random hostile NPC, but can also be a "rescue" by a neutral/friendly NPC (like Mjoll rescued by Aerin). We basically assume that a random NPC (friendly/neutral/unfriendly) found your unconscious body and brought it to his/her place, either to cure your wounds or for some evil purpose. The range of random scenarios can always be expanded. Any random scenario can be a quest with some objectives that you must complete in order to continue with the game. So what's different than the current state of SD?  1. PC is always essential. 2. All defeats are handled, which turns SD into a true alternative to death. 3. A range of expandable random scenarios. Anything can be added, it's up to your imagination. Forced mining, forced prostitution, forced thieving, all kinds of other forced work, forced marriage, loss of skills, perks etc. Or, nothing at all, if you're lucky, you can be saved by a friendly NPC and simply continue playing as if nothing has happened.
Guest Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Just imagining my Stormcloak character waking up and being escorted on a cart, or better yet escorted with 3 guards on foot, to Solitude where the axeman awaits... Â "We have you now, Stormblade!"
testarossa Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013  I've got to say, having the thugs walk the player to the destination is cool for the first ten minutes of the first try, but in my level 24 game it's flat out impossible for them to ever survive to their destination.The other stuff, I'm working on. But, regarding this point, let the thugs get killed and escape.   Well, of course that works IF I can actually survive the enemies that just killed the thugs (usually not), but it also prevents me from ever actually seeing the quest. I don't feel like trying, even for testing purposes, it if it could involve 20+ minutes of tedious walking just to end with a random encounter.  Right now, if the thugs are killed in combat I'm also usually stuck auto-following master even after he's dead and the "paypack's a bitch" quest has ended. It's really random, sometimes I get the escape timer instantly when an enemy attacks, sometimes I never get it.  EDIT: I don't think this is a script lag issue because I can get stuck on autofollow even with "sgtm 0.5" (I'm assuming running the game at half speed reduces lag).  One time it went like this: - sgtm 0.5 - Bears attack master - I instantly get the 5 minutes to escape notice - I run away and get a fair ways, but am autofollowed back - Before I arrive back at master, he dies. Somehow I am then floating in midair on my back, walking, as if I'm trying to walk straight up. I get several messages that 1000 gold has been subtracted.    Â
testarossa Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 So what's different than the current state of SD?  1. PC is always essential. 2. All defeats are handled, which turns SD into a true alternative to death. 3. A range of expandable random scenarios. Anything can be added, it's up to your imagination. Forced mining, forced prostitution, forced thieving, all kinds of other forced work, forced marriage, loss of skills, perks etc. Or, nothing at all, if you're lucky, you can be saved by a friendly NPC and simply continue playing as if nothing has happened.   This sounds like it would make things easier to debug and expand (even by other people). There would only have to be one "defeat" script, one big list of possible defeat outcomes, and then one teleport + startup script for each outcome.  I also really like the idea of waking up in some slavery situation, not even knowing where you are at first.
Guest Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I think you guys are on the right track, thematically speaking. I've never liked the idea of autoreturn. Half the people who enslave you don't have any magic abilities and it just seems to jarr. So if the collar was overtly magical and punished you till you voluntarily returned, that would be great. Though  not my favourite option.  I'd rather like there to be an Escape Stage to the Mod:  One where you'd always feel hunted, even though you were free from you previous Master.  Once you escaped you weren't viewed as some poor schmuck for the guards or some passing stranger to free... but rather as very valuable piece of merchandise. Just wandering around.... waiting to be claimed! I'd like it if there was a very real risk that you'd be re-enslaved by whomever found you. And there was no way of knowing what their reaction would be beforehand.  Or perhaps certain characters whom if they spotted you would autogreet you and claim you as their prize.  I'd also like to see some kind of Hidden Slave Market - where you could be put up for auction before a crowd and sold.  But now I'm starting to ramble on...    "For example, you could just have the slave sent out with a totally non-removable, cursed collar. After a certain period of time they are hit with some debuff that is annoying enough to make the player choose to return. Maybe regularly getting staggered or something". you sir, are brilliant. That's a fukin ace idea. keep shouting it at jbezorg until he makes it !  praps huge reduction in carrying capacity, and increasing over time, so as to encourage the slave back to their master.  There are lots of details you can add, I'm just trying to come up with something really simple to implement. Call it a shock collar. After time away from master, the collar starts to shock you more and more regularly. If shocks produce a stagger effect or drain stamina or something like that, it'll be really annoying but won't prevent you from getting back alive.  There are some complications with this:  1. Even a high level character with a ton of gear shouldn't be able to just get rid of the collar. I suggest that it only comes off if master removes it in dialog. If master dies, kill the player as well (they'd better know to reload anyway).  2. If someone with a control collar gets enslaved by a new master, they're stuck with the old collar. The collar can be a quest which is entirely distinct from slavery, so you can be enslaved by one master and collared by another.  3. Money required to pay off indentured servitude should probably increase according to the player's level. Â
Guest Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Hi there,  I've just been trying out the latest version of SD and noticed some things.  No matter if I set the wait time before I can progress to tasks to Zero, I can't get any.  The only dialogue options I can get with my Master are to be fed food or drink, or to insult him, or to get some clothes.  There's never any "What can I do to please you?" option to win points and gain his favour - which used to be the prelude to indentured servitude.  Is there an obvious mistake I'm making? I've got Coveted (and that other option next to Coveted) turned on. Does that make a difference?
testarossa Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I think you guys are on the right track, thematically speaking. I've never liked the idea of autoreturn. Half the people who enslave you don't have any magic abilities and it just seems to jarr. So if the collar was overtly magical and punished you till you voluntarily returned, that would be great. Though  not my favourite option.  I'd rather like there to be an Escape Stage to the Mod:  One where you'd always feel hunted, even though you were free from you previous Master.  Once you escaped you weren't viewed as some poor schmuck for the guards or some passing stranger to free... but rather as very valuable piece of merchandise. Just wandering around.... waiting to be claimed! I'd like it if there was a very real risk that you'd be re-enslaved by whomever found you. And there was no way of knowing what their reaction would be beforehand.  Hm, well right now the autoreturn-based enslavement quest is very "escape focused". I'm not obeying, just waiting for an opportunity to get away, and for a good pickpocket it's pretty easy. A collar could create the need for obedience.  For example slavery could have multiple stages:  1. New slaves get a shock collar in addition to their shackles. Shackles are worse than now - you can't pickpocket, you get a sneak penalty as if you're wearing heavy armor, and maybe you're locked in place while master sleeps.  The shock collar replaces the need for autofollow. If you've been out of master's sight for N seconds or you equip anything at all, you get a massive debuff (like nerfing magicka and stamina and getting randomly staggered), and soon the slaver faction goes hostile.  Shackles might come off in various ways but the collar requires a full smithy. Escape should be really hard, unless you can jump off a cliff or something.  2. Obey and the shackles come off, so escape is now possible. However, the collar will still give you a debuff that makes it harder to run or fight. You need to make it all the way to a smith to take it off.  Escaped slaves shouldn't have a pleasant time. If master is in a crime faction there should be a bounty on you. Many people should view you as a walking pile of money that can be cashed in by beating you down.  3. Obey more and you can start indentured servitude. You get a more expensive collar which can no longer be removed by a smith, so you can roam free but have to return periodically. How long you can stay away grows over time.
jbezorg Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) PSA. You do not need SD_Imortal_Fix.esp. Get rid of it and reinstall SD if you have. That should only be used if you find that your character is immortal after uninstalling SD permanently ( and shouldn't be necessary at all if you follow the uninstall procedure ). Edited April 17, 2013 by jbezorg
jbezorg Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013  What about having the thugs "knock out" the player and just teleport them to their destination, where they get introduced to their new master? Enslavement works pretty well, it's getting from A to B that causes the problems. Teleport would also mean the player wakes up without knowing where the heck they are or exactly how to get out!   Good idea, maybe it's possible to choose between teleport and classic way to the thug master.  For the knock out option, I wonder if there is a console command for that (I mean, the ragdoll animation, that we can see after each SD sex scene, for exemple.), because I'm trying to create a mod with a storyline, and I would like to start the script quest with the female PCbeing knocked down (visible scene), and then black screen, and wake up in the fisrt zone of my mod.  Thanks in advance!  (Maybe it exists somewhere on the forum a thread about scripts commands, and how to use Creation Kit?)  If the player is teleported then there is no chance to escape along the way.  Sanguine's Debauchery is an enslavement as an alternative to death mod for the player. Where enslavement provides for a continuous narrative rather than death.  You'll get more out of SD if you try to fight against the enslavement and/or try to find imaginative ways to get the master killed.  As for the knock down, you can use PushActorAway. Or you can force an actor into the bleedout animation with  Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, "bleedOutStart")  And take them out of bleedout with  Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, "bleedOutStop")
jbezorg Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Or perhaps certain characters whom if they spotted you would autogreet you and claim you as their prize.Put SD into hardcore mode and try asking some NPCs for help when you escape with bindings on by running away ( e.g. when the thugs engage in combat along the road and, while they are occupied, you run ). Or when you sneak away. Possible if you can break LOS to the master and keep LOS broken until you make it to the escape radius. Some, like guards, will free you. Others, not so much.
jbezorg Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Hi there,  I've just been trying out the latest version of SD and noticed some things.  No matter if I set the wait time before I can progress to tasks to Zero, I can't get any.  The only dialogue options I can get with my Master are to be fed food or drink, or to insult him, or to get some clothes.  There's never any "What can I do to please you?" option to win points and gain his favour - which used to be the prelude to indentured servitude.  Is there an obvious mistake I'm making? I've got Coveted (and that other option next to Coveted) turned on. Does that make a difference? ( Passive ) or ( aggressive ) responses are semi random. The longer the player is enslaved, the less often the aggressive responses will appear until they are no longer an option. Also, are you demerits at or below 0?
jbezorg Posted April 18, 2013 Author Posted April 18, 2013 Well, of course that works IF I can actually survive the enemies that just killed the thugs (usually not), but it also prevents me from ever actually seeing the quest. I don't feel like trying, even for testing purposes, it if it could involve 20+ minutes of tedious walking just to end with a random encounter.  Right now, if the thugs are killed in combat I'm also usually stuck auto-following master even after he's dead and the "paypack's a bitch" quest has ended. It's really random, sometimes I get the escape timer instantly when an enemy attacks, sometimes I never get it.  EDIT: I don't think this is a script lag issue because I can get stuck on autofollow even with "sgtm 0.5" (I'm assuming running the game at half speed reduces lag).  One time it went like this: - sgtm 0.5 - Bears attack master - I instantly get the 5 minutes to escape notice - I run away and get a fair ways, but am autofollowed back - Before I arrive back at master, he dies. Somehow I am then floating in midair on my back, walking, as if I'm trying to walk straight up. I get several messages that 1000 gold has been subtracted. First question ( and this is always the first question ) was this a clean install or did you drop a copy of SD on top of a already running copy? sgtm 0.5 may mess with script timing even though the game may be running at half speed, the scripts won't be. Run the game at full speed and then I can help debug.  Also, Maybe PC Exclusive animations?  I can guess like this all day but the problem is this: #1, This is not a problem that's consistent with everyone ( e.g. the bridge and locked door in Mistwatch ) but to the specific system and combination of mods. #2, I do not experience the problems you are having so I can't reproduce or even simulate it to see what is going on and where the problem may be. #3, I have absolutely no knowledge about your system. It's a mystery. A black box.
jbezorg Posted April 18, 2013 Author Posted April 18, 2013 I can't try this myself today. I hope it will help. addtofaction <faction ID> <faction rank> Valid numbers for the faction rank vary, but 0 will always add the actor with the lowest possible faction rank and -1 will remove the actor from the faction. 000E0CD9 Bandit Ally Faction   Mistwatch bandits are not in the bandit faction but in dunMistwatchFaction. Thugs an player are added to / removed from that faction in the next update during the "Payback's a Bitch" quest along with the bridge and door issues ( it qualifies as "game-breaking" if the player is getting attacked on auto-follow )
WaxenFigure Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013   What about having the thugs "knock out" the player and just teleport them to their destination, where they get introduced to their new master? Enslavement works pretty well, it's getting from A to B that causes the problems. Teleport would also mean the player wakes up without knowing where the heck they are or exactly how to get out!  Good idea, maybe it's possible to choose between teleport and classic way to the thug master.  For the knock out option, I wonder if there is a console command for that (I mean, the ragdoll animation, that we can see after each SD sex scene, for exemple.), because I'm trying to create a mod with a storyline, and I would like to start the script quest with the female PCbeing knocked down (visible scene), and then black screen, and wake up in the fisrt zone of my mod.  Thanks in advance!  (Maybe it exists somewhere on the forum a thread about scripts commands, and how to use Creation Kit?)   http://www.creationkit.com/Main_Page - Creation kit wiki with tutorials http://skse.silverlock.org/ - SKSE -- make sure you install the SOURCE files for scripts if you do any scripting  http://mod.gib.me/skyrim/functions.html - Reference material
testarossa Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013  Well, of course that works IF I can actually survive the enemies that just killed the thugs (usually not), but it also prevents me from ever actually seeing the quest. I don't feel like trying, even for testing purposes, it if it could involve 20+ minutes of tedious walking just to end with a random encounter.  Right now, if the thugs are killed in combat I'm also usually stuck auto-following master even after he's dead and the "paypack's a bitch" quest has ended. It's really random, sometimes I get the escape timer instantly when an enemy attacks, sometimes I never get it.  EDIT: I don't think this is a script lag issue because I can get stuck on autofollow even with "sgtm 0.5" (I'm assuming running the game at half speed reduces lag).  One time it went like this: - sgtm 0.5 - Bears attack master - I instantly get the 5 minutes to escape notice - I run away and get a fair ways, but am autofollowed back - Before I arrive back at master, he dies. Somehow I am then floating in midair on my back, walking, as if I'm trying to walk straight up. I get several messages that 1000 gold has been subtracted. First question ( and this is always the first question ) was this a clean install or did you drop a copy of SD on top of a already running copy? sgtm 0.5 may mess with script timing even though the game may be running at half speed, the scripts won't be. Run the game at full speed and then I can help debug.  Also, Maybe PC Exclusive animations?  I can guess like this all day but the problem is this: #1, This is not a problem that's consistent with everyone ( e.g. the bridge and locked door in Mistwatch ) but to the specific system and combination of mods. #2, I do not experience the problems you are having so I can't reproduce or even simulate it to see what is going on and where the problem may be. #3, I have absolutely no knowledge about your system. It's a mystery. A black box.  I have been doing clean installs throughout testing this mod (I tried an overwrite once, and posted that it didn't work).  I only used sgtm 0.5 to see if it would affect the "autofollow dead master" bug, I don't normally play at half speed.  My mods are from STEM except for SD.  I am not using PCEA or any other mod on the "not compatible" list. The only animations I have are the packages required for SD. Please note that the weird "walking into the air" bug only happened once, in general the bug was simply that autofollow often continued after master died.  I just put in a lot of effort to test your mod and to report issues as precisely as I could. The glitches I'm seeing all involve the fact that ending slavery involves ending a lot of different things, and sometimes they don't all actually end. I and other people have seen that the enslavement quest itself sometimes doesn't end when you're free, requiring an uninstall of SD. The only thing I'm reporting that I haven't seen anyone else mention is that sometimes autofollow won't shut off when master dies.   Anyway, you're telling me you don't want to do anything with my bug reports, so I'm not going to take more time to do testing.
Regcod Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Hi guys, Â somebody can explain to me how to remove shackles please? I ask because I freed me stealing the master key, but I can't remove in any way the shackles also after defeating the master. Â Thank you
Runico Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013   What about having the thugs "knock out" the player and just teleport them to their destination, where they get introduced to their new master? Enslavement works pretty well, it's getting from A to B that causes the problems. Teleport would also mean the player wakes up without knowing where the heck they are or exactly how to get out!   Good idea, maybe it's possible to choose between teleport and classic way to the thug master.  For the knock out option, I wonder if there is a console command for that (I mean, the ragdoll animation, that we can see after each SD sex scene, for exemple.), because I'm trying to create a mod with a storyline, and I would like to start the script quest with the female PCbeing knocked down (visible scene), and then black screen, and wake up in the fisrt zone of my mod.  Thanks in advance!  (Maybe it exists somewhere on the forum a thread about scripts commands, and how to use Creation Kit?)  If the player is teleported then there is no chance to escape along the way.  Sanguine's Debauchery is an enslavement as an alternative to death mod for the player. Where enslavement provides for a continuous narrative rather than death.  You'll get more out of SD if you try to fight against the enslavement and/or try to find imaginative ways to get the master killed.  As for the knock down, you can use PushActorAway. Or you can force an actor into the bleedout animation with  Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, "bleedOutStart")  And take them out of bleedout with  Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, "bleedOutStop") My char got away (Master came in fort) I run away, and run a lot and was hidden in a hollow tree, till the time go ... then went up to a village for help (because my hands still tied),  and the guy enslaved me again, after a while he slept and I stole the key, and the guards arrested me for theft, it was me to prison, after serving my time sleeping (P overhall not worked) went up to the village and killed the bastard, I am now a fugitive, looking for a band (master bandid) to be able to join the band, or not.
whatto51 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Hi guys,  somebody can explain to me how to remove shackles please? I ask because I freed me stealing the master key, but I can't remove in any way the shackles also after defeating the master.  Thank you   You can ask people for help, some will do, some will not. Or you can use forge.
whatto51 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Don't know if this can be suitable for SD2, but I'd like to see interrogation instead of just items removal. Background idea is it's not plausible you keep "on" yourself 10 pieces of armor, weapons, pack of gold etc. So let's presume you hide your things before you enter dangerous situations. So you're master will try to force you to give up your things until you reach a fixed/random value. Every time you give up (something similar to indentured procedure) an item, you receive sex/punishment (depending on item value?) and your health (or whatever) goes down a bit . If you reach requested amount you're free, but if your health reach zero before that you are: 1. enslaved like usual 2. sold to another slaver 3. left behind beaten and bound Just an idea
khazuma Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 I'm having some major issues with the animations. Most times they don't play(my character stays kneeling, her captor just stands behind her and the sound effects play), and the times they do play, she clips into the ground when it's a position with her laying on the ground. I followed the instructions for installing, have all the required mods(CBBE and Skulltyrant's skeleton mods were my choices for their respective categories), and set it up through SkyUI properly. The only conflicting mod I have is Dance of Death, but I turned on player immunity like was suggested in the first post. Is there anything I might have missed?
jbezorg Posted April 19, 2013 Author Posted April 19, 2013 I'm having some major issues with the animations. Most times they don't play(my character stays kneeling, her captor just stands behind her and the sound effects play), and the times they do play, she clips into the ground when it's a position with her laying on the ground. I followed the instructions for installing, have all the required mods(CBBE and Skulltyrant's skeleton mods were my choices for their respective categories), and set it up through SkyUI properly. The only conflicting mod I have is Dance of Death, but I turned on player immunity like was suggested in the first post. Is there anything I might have missed?Run GenerateFNISforUsers?
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