SexoutBrutalRapers

[KainsChylde]

An idea inspired by KingOwens suggestion.

 

Would it be possible to, instead of making random NPCs assault people, add a new class of NPC that spawns randomly? Add them to a "rapist" faction or something so they can assault the player before rape, trigger aggro from other NPCs without breaking the game, and allow vengeance after rape without pissing off everyone in the vicinity?

 

Criminal factions like the Fiends, Powder Gangers, and Legion would still rape and stalk like normal (perhaps with the assault option added), jst add the Rapers faction to "civiized" areas like towns and the strip.

[prideslayer]

Imagine you're in freeside.. what happens if you shoot a King that's running towards you to rape you? You lose karma, and all the other kings and bystanders join in on gangbanging (figuratively. With lead pipes.) you.

 

Now, replace that king with one of the hostile psychos that randomly run up and attack you. Half the time, before they even get to you, the friendlies on the street are gunning them down.

 

As much as people want to fight back, this is a role playing game, at least in theory, which means that if you (the player) can click a button fast enough, or can manipulate your mouse with pinpoint accuracy, you still should not 'win' encounters you would otherwise lose. Now the FPS aspect takes away from that somewhat, but that's the basic idea.

 

So... lest you think I'm just being a debbie downer, there is a "correct", non-game-breaking way to solve this issue, that can be implemented within the confines of the engine, but it requires effort that has not yet been put forward due to that always lopsided interaction of modder skill, time, and desire.

 

1. Struggle animations to be played before sex. This would at least make it "look like" you're actually fighting back.

 

2. Outcome predetermined by "die roll" based on stats, equipment, and whatever else we can toss into the mix to make it more dynamic, of both the rapist and the victim.

 

3. Possible outcomes:

- Victory. You win the struggle and can choose to execute the attacker or possibly take other actions, up to the mod author.

- Loss. You gonna get raped. Fade to black after, and when you wake up, the rapist is 'gone' / you don't know who it was.

- Escape. Struggle animation ends, rapist gets ragdolled away, and resumes the chase hostile to you (you can shoot now).

 

The win and escape options would require that important NPCs are excluded from being stalkers in order to avoid breaking the game.

 

There was a thread with some serious discussion about this kind of stuff a few months ago, going so far as to have the players chance of successfully resisting rising or dropping over time if they keep winning (or losing) such encounters, possibly even to the point that either nobody even tries it any more, or you completely stop resisting.

 

Without the struggle animations it can still be done, but a pop-up message saying what just happened wouldn't be nearly as immersive.

[KainsChylde]

Something I've noticed in-game that I was curious about. (Not trying to continue an argument or anything, a seperate idea).

 

NPCs will usually be neutral toward the player until you commit a crime. Stealing, assault or murder, etc., with their response being commensurate to the crime.

 

Has anyone ever seen an NPC commit a crime provoking a response from other NPCs?

 

I only bring this up as an idea for a "simple" fix (I know, I know, nothing a non-modder ever suggest is ever as simple as we think it is). Is there a way to add rape to the crime list?

[prideslayer]

NPCs are never criminals. They never steal (except for scripted exceptions like confiscating your stuff), and they are never violent towards friendlies or neutrals -- only towards enemies -- and there is no easy way to fix this shortcoming of the engine.

 

There is no "simple fix." If there were, we would've put it in place months (or years) ago.

[KainsChylde]

I figured as much, just thought I'd throw it out there. Setting rape as a crime might be useful for mods that make the player a rapist but this is the wrong thread for that idea...

[prideslayer]

You can't just "set rape as a crime". Without implementing an entire crime and punishment system as I tried to give an example of, which would be outside the rudimentary support for such things in the engine itself, there is basically nothing that can be done.

[KainsChylde]

Ah. Did not know that. Sorry.

[prideslayer]

If you look through the geck for the 'crime' support it has, you'll get depressed. Fast.

 

Stealing is a crime, but stealing isn't even an action. That 'crime' is registered by simply taking anything that has an owner assigned to it.

 

The only other kind of crime in the game comes from weapons, and can be either major (default) or minor. The only difference between the two is a minor crime only pisses off the victim (like using a stungun or something), while a major crime pisses off bystanders too. By 'pisses off' I mean they try to kill you.

 

So, in FONV, all crime only has one punishment: execution. The only difference between them is how many executioners are going to come see you.

[Some_Maj]

Actually, I think we could all agree on a script that if you're blocking (With your fists, melee, whatever), the other NPC fails and gets knocked down. I remember there was a mod in oblivion which had this script.

[zippy57]

If I remember the old conversation correctly, the best idea ended up being removing the stalker from all factions as soon as they started stalking the player. This would allow the player to initiate combat with them without everyone else going hostile, but would not make that NPC hostile to the player. I think the problem was A) putting them back into their factions afterwards and deciding when that should happen.

[prideslayer]

That would probably work fine, coupled with adding several NPCs to the restricted list so they aren't valid for use as stalkers or as victims. Putting them back in their factions is definitely a little tricky, but I could whip something up in NX to help with that.

 

As I recall the problem is not knowing which faction(s) they're in, especially if you're using addon mods that add or change factions that you can't test for without setting those mods as masters.

 

I could do something in NX like ref.saveFactions and ref.restoreFactions that could store all the faction data internally, if the data has been mapped out in the NVSE classes.

[prideslayer]

Actually' date=' I think we could all agree on a script that if you're blocking (With your fists, melee, whatever), the other NPC fails and gets knocked down. I remember there was a mod in oblivion which had this script.

[/quote']

 

That would be easy enough, but it doesn't help you if you have a gun equipped. Maybe stalkers just shouldn't stalk you if you have a weapon out or holstered.

 

FWIW I'm just tossing ideas out there. I've never been a fan of rapers/stalkers/joburg mods to be honest, so it doesn't bother me too much how people decide to handle them.

 

If the mod were really well done I'd have a lot more interest in it.. if the stalkers were 'sneakier', only approaching when unseen and sandboxing (not just standing there crouched) otherwise, only attacked if you're both unseen by other people around, and so on.

 

One day I'll have time to actually write some of this stuff.. but sexout core still needs attention for a while longer.

[Nel]

I have to agree with Prideslayer about the stalkers needing to be 'sneakier'. I personally disabled the stalker ability because I found it to be more of an annoyance than an actual enhancement to the game world. I really only use brutal rapers in its current form for combat rape, and sometimes for sleep/wait rape if I feel like it, because to me, they are the only two that make any sense.

 

I don't feel like it makes sense for easy pete to get up from his chair in front of the saloon and rape my character 4 or 5 times before I do the quest to help goodsprings, or for the random goodsprings settler to rape my character when I'm trying to fix the damn radio. I also don't think it makes any sense to become immediately hostile to the entire town if I try to retaliate against the guy who just freakin' raped me.

 

The stalker portion would need a lot more work to make it more realistic and 'shocking' rather than every guy getting super horny at night and deciding they should rape you with no consequences coming their way for their actions (yes I know there are options to edit the amount this stuff occurs, but the idea of it alone is what I find to be silly and a real deal breaker for me as far as the stalker framework goes).

 

Combat rape works well because your character gets weakened and vulnerable and the enemy takes advantage of you, yet you had the chance to fight back, and can still get revenge when the rape ends. Sleep/wake could use the faction thing you guys were discussing so you could exact revenge, but it is more believable to be raped by someone who sees you sleeping, than it is to be raped by some random guy when your walking through a town with a missile launcher equipped.

[jbezorg]

Well, I was going to test a modification to this but I keep getting the following when checking for errors in FNVedit.

 

[00:00] Checking for Errors in [03] SexoutBrutalRapers.esp

[00:00] DATA - Flags ->

[00:00] Above errors were found in :WastelandNV "Mojave Wasteland" [WRLD:000DA726]

[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Top "WRLD"

[00:00] SCRO - Global Reference -> [0100FA3B]

[00:00] Above errors were found in :References

[00:00] Above errors were found in :00SexoutRapersInitQuestScript [sCPT:0300BFBD]

[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Top "SCPT"

[00:00] Above errors were found in :[03] SexoutBrutalRapers.esp

 

 

So I will post the proposed modification here.

 

In the "SexoutRapersStalkerBase" base effect script "00SexoutRapersStalker" in the scan loop starting at line 127 and ending at 244 just before line 226 comment ";printC "%n: %.0f" scan score" add the following.

 

if ( scan.GetLOS raper && raper.GetIsCreature == 0 )

set score to score - 350 ;;or maybe higher

endif

 

A stalker will most likely not choose a victim if the victim is looking at them.

[jbezorg]

Also on line 288 same script

 

if ((0 == hasPushed) && (0 == SexoutRapers.useStalkers)) || (0 > chaseTimer) || ( victim.GetLOS raper && raper.GetIsCreature == 0 )

 

Anyway. I'm using the latest SCR and the error I found was in the sex smells with the addition of male and female scents replacing the generic gender neutral scents around line 180

 

if (scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagHumanMale || scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagHumanFemale) && (0 != raper.GetIsCreature)

set score to score + 50

elseif (scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagCoyote) && (raper.GetInFaction VCrCoyoteFaction)

set score to score + 50

elseif (scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagDog) && (raper.GetInFaction dogFaction)

set score to score + 50

elseif (scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagGhoulMale || scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagGhoulFemale) && (0 != raper.GetIsCreatureType 5)

set score to score + 50

elseif (scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagSuperMutantMale || scan.IsSpellTarget SexoutSEFFCumVagSuperMutantFemale) && (0 != raper.GetIsCreatureType 4)

set score to score + 50

endif

[iron_jack]

So I figured I may as well throw some thoughts in as well:

 

 

 

 

I agree that the current stalker system is quite silly in terms of realism. I've been imagining an overhaul, but bear in mind I'm a crappy modder and have no idea how much of this is feasible.

 

• Rapists should only stalk when it is night or there is no one else around, except for certain pre-determined cells (hostile/dangerous territory).
  
• Rapists should prefer to approach from out of sight (behind the player), and rapists in sight (beyond a minimum distance) should attempt to move behind the player/out of sight
  
• In relation to the previous, I was wondering if perhaps the cover system used in combat could be used to make a rapist "hide in wait" until the player moved to within a certain distance or turned away.
  
• When attacked, the player should have a choice (message box?) whether to struggle or give up. If struggle is chosen, stats are compared (maybe the average of STR, AGI, and END? Or melee scores?). If the rapist attacked from the front it is a straight comparison, if attacked from behind the rapist gets a +x bonus to his score.
  
• Rapist NPCs could either be randomly generated, or pulled from the existing population. If pulled from existing NPCs, perhaps the rapist could be made to wear a mask of some sort (any face-covering helmet/hat/scarf from vanilla or modified vanilla, preferably), so that not only does the PC not "know" who it was, the player him or herself may not even know. I feel this would add to the immersion. After rape, fade-to-black and either disable the randgen'd NPC, or reset the NPC's AI to send them back to their usual routine as if nothing happened. NPCs who have heavily script/package dependent behavior that could easily be screwed up, NPCs that would never realistically stalk and rape a woman (either for moral or other reasons, e.g. Caesar wouldn't need to stalk anyone as he could just demand a woman be brought to him), or NPCs covered elswhere (e.g. any of the Tryout factions, SS_C NPCs, etc) could be excluded.
  

 

 

 

Again, just spitballing, not demanding anyone do it.

[Pals]

Do I only get cunnilingus when raped by female enemies or are there more positions?

[KingOwen]

very interesting. Thanks for replying. So, there's almost no real way to add a kind of realism to it? That's the sense that I'm getting here.

[prideslayer]

very interesting. Thanks for replying. So' date=' there's almost no real way to add a kind of realism to it? That's the sense that I'm getting here.

[/quote']

 

There is, I outlined one way, it's just not the way you want it to be it seems.

[emo877]

I think, getThreatRatio better suits for purpose to make some stalkers be more canny, than plain raper\victim av-calculations. Also, there's unused ai-pack at BR, "SexoutRapersHuntPlayerSneak" (and the same "SexoutRapersHuntMarkerSneak*"), after removing check "sneak" it looks like HookUps approach. Tested them instead "running" pattern for conditions such as {populated area (from scan counters in 00SexoutRapersQuestScript), strong victim \ weak stalker}. Planned to use LOS and\or 'getdetected' to not allow them simply jump on victim, and add "undressing" stage after push ("cannibal" animation).. but last mounth i had too much rl-distractions to continue. ):

 

ps. glad to see live in this thread.

[ambientspoon]

Oh no! Stalkers are broken? I updated NG and BrutalRapers today and now stalkers don't fuck, they just knock their victims to the ground and walk off, combat rape still works though. I really hope I'm not wasting space and time with this post but I can't check known issues because trying to get to the first page just brings up a picture of a baby smoking a pipe and I have a heart condition which prevents me from reading any posts that are longer than 3 lines. The first part of that sentence is actually true.

[x22]

I've also been having the same problem. I read that using the override animations option can fix it. It doesn't work for me(maybe I'm doing something else wrong all tho I don't know what). Might work for you if not maybe it's a problem with the plugin it's self.

[prideslayer]

That override option was removed from sexout monthsago unless you're talking about some option I'm unaware of in brutalrapers itself. It was only for non-NG mod compatibility, and was designed to let them use the old animations and stuff, rather than silently 'converting' them to NG animations. That conversion always happens though now.

 

One change in the datapack was removing the old sexout animations.. I wonder if brutalrapers was directly referencing them (naughty naughty!). I'll look into it.

[prideslayer]

I'm looking over this code right now.. I don't know what this override thing is supposed to be doing, but it looks hella broken in the script. I recommend you do not enable it. Stuff like "set Sexout.anim to 1001 + anim / 50" makes no sense and is just going to fail or play the wrong animation.

 

I'm testing a fix right now (that also removes that override stuff except from MCM -- MCM will remain but do nothing, as I don't feel like breaking MCM right now) and if it works, will attach.

[Bravo34]

I apologize for being a lazy git here,(Please feel free to verbally curbstomp me and tell me to actually look for it)but whats the deal with the 3 cells that come up as "restricted" BR loads?They're "The Tops Sex Theater","Vault 19 Dungeon"(I think) and something else that I can't remember.thanks in advance.