Where has everyone gone? (And do I REALLY care?)

[ToJKa]

Considering how Bethesda has gotten, you probably have to buy mods in Loot Boxes in their next game ?

[Darkpig]

2 hours ago, ToJKa said:

Considering how Bethesda has gotten, you probably have to buy mods in Loot Boxes in their next game ?

Mod + Loot Boxes = Moot Boxes

 

Oh dear. Ulfric is going to have a fit.

[demack]

Well I had a computer issues and just got that fixed. I haven't been around for almost a year. The one thing that was troubling here was the fact every time I did log in, the system would go to error page (502 or something) when I clicked on anything.

[FauxFurry]

3 hours ago, demack said:

Well I had a computer issues and just got that fixed. I haven't been around for almost a year. The one thing that was troubling here was the fact every time I did log in, the system would go to error page (502 or something) when I clicked on anything.

Sometimes,if you want to avoid errors, you have to toss your cookies. 

[Psalam]

13 hours ago, FauxFurry said:

Sometimes,if you want to avoid errors, you have to toss your cookies. 

That's good for preventing some poisonings too!

[Evaloves4]

I do care if my LL friends stopped visiting Ll or contacting me via PM.  I'm here to socialize and make virtual friends. It makes me sad if someone, the person I know, left LL because of trolling or being disappointed in LL community.

[Vuulgar]

On 10/20/2019 at 10:14 PM, Kendo 2 said:

Too many Leftists on this site for it to be fun to post.

Its not without possibility to lose access to sites you like if you voice an opinion that even one person doesnt approve of and if you happen to find a virtuebating addict then the possibility your entire life could be affected stifles conversation, knowledge and awareness. Governments are not the only method of censorship, groups of narrow-minded, opinionated people can intimidate just as well if not better. 

[Psalam]

1 hour ago, Vuulgar said:

Its not without possibility to lose access to sites you like if you voice an opinion that even one person doesnt approve of and if you happen to find a virtuebating addict then the possibility your entire life could be affected stifles conversation, knowledge and awareness. Governments are not the only method of censorship, groups of narrow-minded, opinionated people can intimidate just as well if not better. 

You're quite right. This is part of what FauxFurry was alluding to when he discussed the "sweet spot" that LL's moderators seem to have found. Let some one blow off steam but don't let them get personal or dominate a thread with political (or religious) invective. If they start, then warn them. If they keep going then, what comes will be only the fault of the person who thinks rules aren't for them. 

 

As I pointed out in my blog. This is Ashal's website and we're guests, much like we were invited to his home for a party. You may smoke pot at home but, if he says there will be no pot smoking in his home you abide by his rule or go home. And, if you don't, well, don't be mad at him for throwing you out when he told you what the rules were.

[jxm]

Exactly 11 posts in and ... I remember why I try to keep my inernet activities on reddit, forums, youtube minimal...god...all that whining about oppression by femnazis, leftists, PC-Brigades, SJWS ... when did mankind became so pathetically whiney and "complainy" ? HELP! HELP! I AM BEING REPRESSED! ... yeah, sure ... whatever...

 

Guess I have to watch Star Trek TNG again, and wish we were already at THAT point...

 

Hm, or maybe I rather watch Fury Road instead ...

[27X]

9 minutes ago, jxm said:

Fury Road

 

9 minutes ago, jxm said:

Star Trek TNG

 

9 minutes ago, jxm said:

leftists

 

?

 

Might wanna do some reading cause both of these venues you like and mention as great alternatives are political as fuck, in addition to Star Trek being preachy as fuck. Difference is Roddenberry and Miller understood/stand situation and context and the difference between show and tell, and when to use either or neither, something his replacement Berman didn't understand at all, with the ratings to prove it.

[donttouchmethere]

4 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

Speaking of preachy.. a great series TBH: 

 

That one gives me the creeps!

Guess that's why I try to simulate it in Skyrim?

[BleachedFur]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:52 AM, GrimReaper said:

Discord is pretty decentralized, everyone can just make their own little private server, however the problem of powertripping and brown-nosing persists, just on a smaller scale.

Discord can suck a fat cock. Discord is its namesake - Concentrated chaos that has thoroughly depleted most forum activities.

 

On 10/21/2019 at 12:52 AM, GrimReaper said:

quite excited to see how the modding scene for TES6 and Starfield will look like if Bethesda continues supporting mods (that isn't certain imo) and how much of a trainwreck the community itself will be. Well, excited may not be the right work but it's like anticipating a crash and you just can't look away, I guess.

Bethesda has been trainwrecking since Oblivion's DLC. They've been dumbing down games because they're lazy (remember how many armor pieces in Morrowind compared to Skyrim).

[TheCaptn]

It's hilarious watching people blame "leftists" and "sjw's" for literally everything, no matter now nonsensical it is...

 

The reason that LL is getting quieter is so much simpler than people disagreeing with your dumb ideology on the intarwebs guys... Just look at the games we're dedicated to: Skyrim is 8 years old, Fallout 4 is 4 years old, The Sims 4 is 5 years old... The population here is just narrowing down, naturally, to a core of players who remain committed to these aging games; along with a few indie and B-studio titles on the sidelines.

 

Only one thing is really going to revitalize LL, and that's a major AAA (maybe even AA) title with comprehensive mod support and scope for adult modding... And unfortunately nothing like that is on the horizon. Bethesda just keep digging their own grave deeper, CDPR don't even pretend to support modding anymore, The Outer Worlds seems to be locked down based on the early reviews... What's new that we can look forward to?

 

I think we just need to prepare for and get comfortable being one of those dedicated small communities. There's no point making a membership push or generating traffic until there's something new and hopeful to found it on.

 

 

[megamantaray]

Thing is I don't think anyone mentioned politics until a certain someone popped in to do his thing and push a narrative, ironically.

 

That said I'm personally pretty happy with the site being quieter, quality over quantity, not that I do a lot around here.

[JoshQ]

Is difficult to mod something you don’t like, unless you’re doing it for money and even then. I see a lot of similarities between both Fallout 4 and The Sims 4, both are “commercial successes” (creative accounting FTW!) but the community engagement isn't there compared to their predecessors.

 

Also you have tons of drama around mods plus all what we already know so you really need to be focused on what you want, not an easy task nowadays.

 

[zax]

6 hours ago, TheCaptn said:

Just look at the games we're dedicated to: Skyrim is 8 years old, Fallout 4 is 4 years old, The Sims 4 is 5 years old...

Skyrim was at its peak when it was 4 years old. Fallout 4 is the same age now yet its adult modding scene is dead.

[TheCaptn]

1 hour ago, zax said:

Skyrim was at it's peak when it was 4 years old. Fallout 4 is the same age now yet it's adult modding scene is dead.

Yeah, I get what you're saying but I don't think it's quite that simple either... Skyrim was more of a clean slate. It took longer to peak because there wasn't really anything from the previous games that modders could use to shortcut the process... Fallout 4 peaked much quicker IMO, after only 2 years or so, because it did have that. But it also had new systems that kind of resisted modding; the same systems that we see in Skyrim SE, because by that point Bethesda were focusing on directly monetizing the modding community rather than simply letting them drive longevity for the games.

 

[Edit]

And since Fallout 4 I've had a number of other disappointments:

 

• I was hopeful for Witcher 3 modding because CDRP promised a fully featured RedKit2 after release; then backed out.
• I was hopeful for Conan Exiles until it was clear the content would be player-driven with no epic storyline to make it a mainstream hit.
• I was hopeful for Kingdom Come: Deliverance because it's on a supremely moddable engine, but it had the opposite problem from Conan; a very dense, historically-themed story and world that can be hard to approach, even for a fan and kickstarter backer (i.e. me).

[FauxFurry]

This latest move from BethSoft is not going to help any modding community to retain or to draw in any new members.

 

I won't make the claim that it is entirely on the game companies themselves, though. More open source mods would encourage new modders to build on what has come before, something aided by being able to freely look under the hood, reworking things as needed or desired for any specific mod or framework.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, JoshQ said:

Is difficult to mod something you don’t like, unless you’re doing it for money and even then. I see a lot of similarities between both Fallout 4 and The Sims 4, both are “commercial successes” (creative accounting FTW!) but the community engagement isn't there compared to their predecessors.

 

Also you have tons of drama around mods plus all what we already know so you really need to be focused on what you want, not an easy task nowadays.

 

Yea, most people having make some mods before, most only make what they wanted to get, have some fun and move on.. that's the happy and hobby modding.
After it's more a boring task, and or the modders are moving, or they continue as "paid job"..
The thing is out of the community of users the number who finally make a little interesting mod in their life is really a minority, let's say there is more modders having spent just few hundreds of hours really playing and enjoying the game but spent all their time to create new content, while those who only install mods get fun to play thousands and thousands of hours but still wait to see new modders to make something for them..

Personnaly I was bored with skyrim modding and by making mods after 3-4 months, If years after I can still make few things time to time it's simply because It's possible to be paid..
Otherwise I do not make that for fun as hobby, If I was doing things only for hobby, I rather prefer have fun by playing games and make some custom content only for my use than make mods for thousands of unknow people..
Also Keep a mod updated, manage the users, try to help people who never read the first post or what you say, deal with insults, harassing entitled people etc, it's also damn boring and very exhausting, it can really suck all your energy and fuck your mood.

Need to be rather crazy or be a very good samaritain to dedicate lot of time without nothing in exchange for modding or any communities in fact.
From my pov the goal out of big modding community is to see more users became modders, rather than see the majority of them always wait that new "good samaritan" having playing the game 10x less time than them come to make something.
People get what they deserve to get..
 

[GrimReaper]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:19 PM, Mr.Otaku said:

 

The only reason social medias are shit right now is because the companies that own them are not fully obligated to uphold free speech, so they can arbitrarily put the goal post wherever they want and shift them at a moment's notice to suit their agendas because "private company". None of this would be an issue if public law had proper effect on digital spaces but that's a whole another can of worms.

I'd like to add to that:

1.: Social media makes it convenient to maintain an extreme filterbubble - you can block all the people you disagree with until there are only people left that you agree with, eventually warping your perception to 'everyone agrees with me'. This is part of the problem why people can't have a disagreement anymore without it devolving into a screeching contest.

 

2.: Companies are interested in keeping you logged in for longer and longer for obvious reasons. Ideally they try to push you into some sort of dependancy or addiction, if you will.

 

3.: There's a dopamine spike whenever people share and like your stuff. This gives you the feeling that you did somethig when you really didn't and makes you want to have more of the same. It leads to complacency, you're doing important things - at least in your mind - and people praise you for it. It's easy to get lost in social media.

 

While I'd say that social media shares some very important similarities to a public space and should be treated as such legally, it also gives every individual user the tools to shape the very perception of their digital space as they see fit. You can't do that in the real world - in reality, you're subjected to many experiences you don't agree with or don't want. Up to a point this is healthy because you learn to get along with people even if you don't like them. Social media can regress your ability to do so to the stage a toddler is usually in, since toddlers consider themselves to be the center of the universe. They have little to no control over their urges and need to be socialized to be able to function in any given social environment.

[Psalam]

9 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

I'd like to add to that:

1.: Social media makes it convenient to maintain an extreme filterbubble - you can block all the people you disagree with until there are only people left that you agree with, eventually warping your perception to 'everyone agrees with me'. This is part of the problem why people can't have a disagreement anymore without it devolving into a screeching contest.

 

2.: Companies are interested in keeping you logged in for longer and longer for obvious reasons. Ideally they try to push you into some sort of dependancy or addiction, if you will.

 

3.: There's a dopamine spike whenever people share and like your stuff. This gives you the feeling that you did somethig when you really didn't and makes you want to have more of the same. It leads to complacency, you're doing important things - at least in your mind - and people praise you for it. It's easy to get lost in social media.

 

While I'd say that social media shares some very important similarities to a public space and should be treated as such legally, it also gives every individual user the tools to shape the very perception of their digital space as they see fit. You can't do that in the real world - in reality, you're subjected to many experiences you don't agree with or don't want. Up to a point this is healthy because you learn to get along with people even if you don't like them. Social media can regress your ability to do so to the stage a toddler is usually in, since toddlers consider themselves to be the center of the universe. They have little to no control over their urges and need to be socialized to be able to function in any given social environment.

While I think that your points are well taken I would like to add just a little perspective, specifically to #1. People tend to behave as much as possible in this manner with or without social media and I will share a well-known anecdote to make the point.

 

It is the day after the US presidential election in 1972. Richard Nixon has just won a sweeping victory over George McGovern. A writer for the New York Times was talking to an unnamed friend about the election results. His friend reportedly said, "I can't believe Nixon won. I don't know a single person who voted for him." This was well before social media. Admittedly social media can make this worse but the tendency is there regardless and it is up to us as individuals to deal with it in our own cases.

[Mr. Otaku]

43 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

...

30 minutes ago, Psalam said:

...

Excellent points, both you. I think the bottom line regarding this issue is that people tend to have in-group mentality regardless of the situation or tools at hand. While blocking somebody on social media can be helpful against spam harrasments, targetting threats or attempts at doxing, it also leaves people with the option to lose perspective of what is really happening. This leads to more polarisation because both sides can't see the full picture. What they see is what they like, and what they like is the only real thing. This is somewhat of a human nature and it's ultimately the "what you don't know scares you" concept at play.

[steelpanther24]

1 hour ago, Mr.Otaku said:

Excellent points, both you. I think the bottom line regarding this issue is that people tend to have in-group mentality regardless of the situation or tools at hand. While blocking somebody on social media can be helpful against spam harrasments, targetting threats or attempts at doxing, it also leaves people with the option to lose perspective of what is really happening. This leads to more polarisation because both sides can't see the full picture. What they see is what they like, and what they like is the only real thing. This is somewhat of a human nature and it's ultimately the "what you don't know scares you" concept at play.

Hmm..  back to the OP, though, the best answer is ............a little bit of everything said so far.     However, I have tried making mods and I know the time they take (heck my radio mod is taking months longer than I expected because.......royalty free music is hard to come by). 

 

[TheCaptn]

12 hours ago, FauxFurry said:

This latest move from BethSoft is not going to help any modding community to retain or to draw in any new members.

 

76 is such a tragically wasted opportunity... I still own it, still play it a little (I've never bought a microtransaction), and I still maintain that it's Bethesda's best world-design for the franchise so far AND IT'S ALL BEING WASTED. Ughh!

 

I really believe that they could turn that game around with two fairly straightforward changes: Private Dedicated Servers, and Server Modding/Modlists... But they'd have to give up control of the Atom Store, and they've been so thoroughly corrupted by now that I can't see it ever happening.

[JoshQ]

15 hours ago, komotor said:

Also Keep a mod updated, manage the users, try to help people who never read the first post or what you say, deal with insults, harassing entitled people etc, it's also damn boring and very exhausting, it can really suck all your energy and fuck your mood.

Sharing is nice, getting a ‘thank you’ gets you all fuzzy inside but that shouldn’t be the motor that powers your creativity. I have seen too many creators, most of them incredible talented people, getting burned because of it.

 

If modding is getting more difficult then the reward shouldn’t be what other people think or do, creation should always be selfish otherwise innovation won’t be possible.

 

And about social media and their “inhabitants”, they love to think they are important but the facts tell otherwise but as long as you give them the power to control you they will do it gladly.