Devious Devices, Luxury Collection & Bikini Armors Patches for Vanilla and Various Mods

[donttouchmethere]

3 hours ago, Corsec said:

Honestly I've never actually tried to take DDs off an NPC because...why the hell would I want to do that?!? I put them in DDs for a reason!

I only needed to do that once as test and if HSG DD patched wear incompatible devices, like a hobble skirt + pet suit I removed the conflicting device.

 

At any other time I'm with you!

Why would you want to remove those DDs from NPC? ?

[Ripstop]

20 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

At any other time I'm with you!

Why would you want to remove those DDs from NPC? ?

I have 'uniforms' that they wear depending on where they are housed. After a long night of mead and debauchery, it helps me identify where the hell I ended up.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Ripstop said:

I have 'uniforms' that they wear depending on where they are housed. After a long night of mead and debauchery, it helps me identify where the hell I ended up.

??cheers!

[Corsec]

So I have some bad new about these patches...

 

DDs assigned to an NPCs inventory have scripts associated with them which are used to place the wearable items on an NPC ingame. Adding DDs to NPCs causes these scripts to run when you enter an area. When you have a lot of NPCs in DDs, the script load becomes very high. For example, when entering Whiterun for the first time in my game, it takes at least 3 minutes for all the scripts to run and finish. This is causing bugs because the script load can be large enough to prevent other scripts from running, or at least delay them. Consequently this can results in other scripts not running correctly or not at all and resulting in bugs in your game, breaking your savegame.

 

I have found in my test saves that there can be hundreds of scripts attempting to run at the same time, with hundreds more suspended stacks (failed scripts). I've even found in a savegame 8-9 hours old that there can be thousands of active scripts, as well as thousands of suspended stacks.

 

You can tell if you have had this problem if you find NPCs wearing mismatched items with different colours. Items added by these patches are colour matched as much as possible. I think that the mismatched items are because the DD scripts attempt to run but fail, and then run a second time or more. This causes multiple outfits to be assigned to an NPC, hence the mismatched outfits. I've seen NPCs wearing items from half a dozen items so this can happen a lot.

 

You can test how bad the problem is by opening your savegames with fallrimtools. Once you open your savegame then look at the number of active scripts and suspended stacks. The higher the number, the worse the problem is. You will get a clearer idea of the severity of the problem if you open a savegame that was made when entering a busy area for the first time. For example, enter Whiterun and stand in place without doing anything, and make a series of saves over the next few minutes. Then open those saves with fallrimtools to see how bad the problem is for you. If the number of suspended stacks is above zero then you might consider removing some of my DD patches.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5031

 

This is all extremely problematic, and I'm not sure what the safe limit for the number of NPCs you can have wearing DDs in an area. I've decided to recommend that users limit the number of patches that they use at the same time. I've also decided to make a series of patches which use unscripted DDs which should mostly avoid the problem.

Sorry to anyone who's game I broke...

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

You can tell if you have had this problem if you find NPCs wearing mismatched items with different colours. Items added by these patches are colour matched as much as possible. I think that the mismatched items are because the DD scripts attempt to run but fail, and then run a second time or more. This causes multiple outfits to be assigned to an NPC, hence the mismatched outfits. I've seen NPCs wearing items from half a dozen items so this can happen a lot.

?

 

But this is still hypothetical right? RIGHT?

[Corsec]

19 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

?

 

But this is still hypothetical right? RIGHT?

 

LOL did you not read that part of the PM I sent you last night? I've checked my patches many times too see if there are errors in the levelled lists that could be causing mismatched items. I didn't find any such errors, so I think it's due to scripting overload. Not hypothetical, but practical.

 

You have almost as many NPCs in DDs ingame as I have, you would have almost as many scripts running. There's a script for every DD item, and each outit will have maybe 4-8 items per NPC. That adds up to a lot of scripts. I get about 100 active scripts before the suspended stacks start building up, probably long before that. That means that the scripts will overload for me at maybe 12-25 NPCs wearing DDs in an area. Most cities and towns have more than this. You can test this by waiting for 10 days for cell reset, then enter Whiterun and make a series of saves over the next few minutes. Check them all for the script count, especially the suspended stacks.

 

And with all those DD scripts attempting to run at the same time, non-DD scripts will not have the chance to run properly.

 

Maybe all along it was actually me who who broke your game.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

did you not read that part of the PM I sent you last night?

I'm still skeptical, because you are using SRR ?

(DT3 struggles with some of the SRR modified DDs added to unique SRR slaves. Means it is constantly re-registering them. Maybe you can make a patch that overwrites all the SRR added DDs?)

 

I use your patches too (maybe not as many DD patches), but I don't get that crazy active scripts that you talked about.

The only time I got those was after opening a container while DDs got added to NPC via your patch.

 

In 175 hours I saw double equipping of DDs to NPC 3 times.

(I must admit I wasn't much in cities tho)

 

I'm sure adding so many DDs on NPC can be troublesome. I'm just not sure if it isn't a bug in DDi that causes issues with DDs on NPC.

 

What I mean is: I don't find it conclusive yet to assert that your patch is the cause. I rather think it reveals a shortcoming of DDi.

[thesteve812]

2 hours ago, Corsec said:

For example, when entering Whiterun for the first time in my game, it takes at least 3 minutes for all the scripts to run and finish.

Is this why I get lag in Whiterun until they all settle down?

Or, is it waiting for the director to yell "action".

I'm still enjoying this added enjoyment.

[Corsec]

6 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

I'm still skeptical, because you are using SRR ?

 

I use your patches too (maybe not as many DD patches), but I don't get that crazy active scripts that you talked about.

The only time I got those was after opening a container while DDs got added to NPC via your patch.

 

In 175 hours I saw double equipping of DDs to NPC 3 times.

(I must admit I wasn't much in cities tho)

 

I'm sure adding so many DDs on NPC can be troublesome. I'm just not sure if it isn't a bug in DDi that causes issues with DDs on NPC.

 

What I mean is: I don't find it conclusive yet to assert that your patch is the cause. I rather think it reveals a shortcoming of DDi.

 

I'm not using the SRR Enforcer, it's switched off. So I doubt it could be that, but I will make a test save to see what a non-SRR game is like.

 

If it's a shortcoming in DDi, that gets magnified according to how many NPCs are wearing DDs. So, yes, technically my patch isn't the ultimate cause, but it will make it far worse than it would have been and push it to the point where it breaks savegames.

[Corsec]

10 minutes ago, thesteve812 said:

Is this why I get lag in Whiterun until they all settle down?

Or, is it waiting for the director to yell "action".

I'm still enjoying this added enjoyment.

 

Yes, the scripts for DDs start running when you enter a new area and if there are lots of those scripts it will cause lag. You can check this by saving during the lag and opening the save in fallrimtools to see how many active scripts there are.

[donttouchmethere]

1 minute ago, Corsec said:

I'm not using the SRR Enforcer, it's switched off.

It's not the enforcer it's this:

22 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

(DT3 struggles with some of the SRR modified DDs added to unique SRR slaves. Means it is constantly re-registering them. Maybe you can make a patch that overwrites all the SRR added DDs?)

 

If you check some SRR DDs are even flagged as normal clothing with DD effects.

 

[Corsec]

14 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

It's not the enforcer it's this:

 

If you check some SRR DDs are even flagged as normal clothing with DD effects.

 

 

SRR only adds 2 DD items, both of them plugs. SRR only add regular DDs to NPCs. There aren't enough SRR NPCs walking aorund in the cities to cause this script overload.

 

I tried a new game without SRR and found the same results with hundreds of active scripts. It's not SRR.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

SRR only add regular DDs to NPCs

Not true on unique slaves, something is off there.

Check the DDs collected form the quest slave that dies during the starter quest (bandit cave).

DT3 needs to re-register the unique SRR slaves (like the one outside of Whiterun, Diamond the anal slave?^^), so there might be more issues.

 

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

I tried a new game without SRR and found the same results with hundreds of active scripts. It's not SRR.

There could be still another conflict.

 

Then again I don't have nearly as many DD patches for NPC installed as you^^

 

All I can say, I check my saves everytime I leave the game and I can't see many active scripts from DD.

 

[donttouchmethere]

I stand corrected!

Corsec is right, if too many NPC get DDs equipped at the same time it causes massive suspended stacks.

Scripts from other mods that start in that time might also end as suspended stack or get terminated.

 

I just saw it now, because I saved while DDs got equipped.

But I also only saw that issue in cities o.o

 

But the reason might be DD NPC Support and not the Corsec DD patches

[Whollupwhozit]

Might want to replace the Armbinders and Yokes from Non-DD masterlist to Zaz because non-DD no longer change the animation for NPCs.

[Corsec]

4 hours ago, BenstonAnvil said:

Might want to replace the Armbinders and Yokes from Non-DD masterlist to Zaz because non-DD no longer change the animation for NPCs.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems to work fine in my games.

 

Here's some screenshots of the NPC in my game using armbinders. The clipping on the armbinder is because of my custom bodyslide preset being a bit too big.

 

Spoiler

 

[Ripstop]

Corsec:

 

I had found SRR as well as Captured Dreams and Mias Lair to be too script heavy to begin with. I've stopped using them a while ago. I do have mods like MME and Pahe/PAH_Home Sweet Home that run continuously. I constantly get notifications of events from those mods no matter where I am in the game world.

 

I've checked a few save games and although one has 4 suspended stacks, it also has 200 active scripts running. In that save, I picked up the Shimmermist quest in Whiterun. A city guard walked past me and gave it to me. The next save has 325 active scripts and 1 suspended stack.  In all this, I haven't had a save that I couldn't load up and continue on from.

 

Keep in mind that I still have DD for the masses 3. I also had DD NPC support in my load order before these saves but I deleted(!) that esp and the four scripts. For the most part the DD items equipped are colour matched but I have seen combo's that make my eyes bleed. That may be from FTM3 trying to help out.

 

I know that what I do to torture my game files is horrendous and worthy of a double face palm, maybe even a lynching. I'm sure my game is wounded to begin with but not fatally yet. Keep in mind that this is a 90 Gb install with 251 plugins. There are multiple instances of DD and Heretic Resource files present because different mods have their own requirements. I'm almost ready to do a fresh reinstall with what I've learned, a mod organizer and bashed patches rather than manual installs and XEditing a lot.

 

I'm not sure your patches are the demise of saved games that you think it is.

[bubba999]

14 minutes ago, Corsec said:

 

I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems to work fine in my games.

 

Here's some screenshots of the NPC in my game using armbinders. The clipping on the armbinder is because of my custom bodyslide preset being a bit too big.

 

  Hide contents

 

Nice and thicc!

[Corsec]

9 minutes ago, Ripstop said:

Corsec:

 

I had found SRR as well as Captured Dreams and Mias Lair to be too script heavy to begin with. I've stopped using them a while ago. I do have mods like MME and Pahe/PAH_Home Sweet Home that run continuously. I constantly get notifications of events from those mods no matter where I am in the game world.

 

I've checked a few save games and although one has 4 suspended stacks, it also has 200 active scripts running. In that save, I picked up the Shimmermist quest in Whiterun. A city guard walked past me and gave it to me. The next save has 325 active scripts and 1 suspended stack.  In all this, I haven't had a save that I couldn't load up and continue on from.

 

Keep in mind that I still have DD for the masses 3. I also had DD NPC support in my load order before these saves but I deleted(!) that esp and the four scripts. For the most part the DD items equipped are colour matched but I have seen combo's that make my eyes bleed. That may be from FTM3 trying to help out.

 

I know that what I do to torture my game files is horrendous and worthy of a double face palm, maybe even a lynching. I'm sure my game is wounded to begin with but not fatally yet. Keep in mind that this is a 90 Gb install with 251 plugins. There are multiple instances of DD and Heretic Resource files present because different mods have their own requirements. I'm almost ready to do a fresh reinstall with what I've learned, a mod organizer and bashed patches rather than manual installs and XEditing a lot.

 

I'm not sure your patches are the demise of saved games that you think it is.

 

SRR isn't so script heavy if you don't run the Enforcer. With my patches you can get most females into DDs or non-DDs so it achieves the same effect of the SRR Enforcer outfit changes. For the public sex that SRR Enforcer provides you can instead use Pet Collar mod and enable the pet collar effect for NPCs. I added the keywords to the non-DD collars so they should be compatible with Pet Collar now. Pet Collar is also less likely to disrupt other events in the game so I'd recommend that rather than the SRR Enforcer for public sex.

 

The basic problem is that more DDs mean more active scripts and at some threshold it overloads the scripting engine and delays/prevents other scripts from running. Hundreds of active scripts in your savegames is definitely not a good thing and you will be getting suspended stacks during the first few minutes after entering a new cell. You might not notice the problems in your savegame, but things can still go wrong without you noticing them and eventually this can create a real and noticeable problem that requires reloading an earlier save.

 

If you see NPCs wearing mismatched DDs then it means that you recently had a script overload resulting in suspended stacks.

 

It's true that if you use just a small number of my patches then the savegame may still be stable, without script overloads and be playable for hundreds of hours. Any problems might be minor and/or repairable. Since I don't know what the safety threshold is then I can't reasonably tell people that my DD patches are safe, even if they are actually safe in small doses.

 

If users still want the DD patches then that's fine, I have left them available for download. Just so long as they know the risks, they are responsible for their own games. I'm switching my newer patches over to the non-DDs though, although I might add small numbers of DDs to the masterlists in the future if I feel it is safe to do so.

 

I recommend that you disable FTM3 because it's just buggy and won't interact well with my patches.

[Corsec]

21 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

Nice and thicc!

 

LOL yeah. It's a custom preset I adapted from the Amame follower's preset-

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/33194

 

I shrunk the breasts down to merely gigantic rather than immobilising and also made some cosmetic improvements.

 

I don't know how people can play with tiny, skinny presets. I'm looking at you DTMT. Women shouldn't look like pre-pubescent teenage boys lol.

[donttouchmethere]

9 minutes ago, Corsec said:

I don't know how people can play with tiny, skinny presets. I'm looking at you DTMT. Women shouldn't look like pre-pubescent teenage boys lol.

It's just a matter of circumstances? ?

Spoiler

 

[Corsec]

3 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

It's just a matter of circumstances? ?

  Hide contents

 

 

LOL that just makes her look like a fat pre-pubescent teenage boy.

[donttouchmethere]

3 hours ago, Corsec said:

LOL that just makes her look like a fat pre-pubescent teenage boy.

?

poor PC, someone got some fire salts? ???

[Whollupwhozit]

Huh. Guess it's just that specific save suffering from too many scripts running at once. (other profiles work just fine as you said)

 

Skinny preset is preferable when you have mods that may alter the size depending on circumstances.

[Ripstop]

5 hours ago, Corsec said:

 

LOL yeah. It's a custom preset I adapted from the Amame follower's preset

 

Interesting...

I'm using the second one with the Cosio body and a custom hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP file and get no clipping from mods without bodyslide support. I'm still working on the hdt file for collision but the jiggle is awesome. Collision is difficult without a standalone coordinate graph to base it from.

BelindaAmane.xml BelindaWench2.0.xml