Devious Followers - Continued

[delgathar]

Hello,

 

Just had a thought.  The way my follower gets annoyed if I remove her armor.  It would be cool if she got annoyed if I tried to turn her into a milk maid.  "No, You're the milk maid not I." type thing.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I just noticed SLS status menu subverts DF by always displaying your debt. Is the condition where your follower will not reveal your debt simply 'Follower Lives <= 0' ?

No. It's also hidden in gold control.

 

This is the MCM check:

Spoiler

    If GoldCont.Enabled
        OID_DebtText = AddTextOption("$DF_DEBT", "$DF_IN_GOLD_CONTROL")
    ElseIf Lives.GetValue() <= 0.0
        OID_DebtText = AddTextOption("$DF_DEBT", "$DF_FOLLOWER_ANGRY")
    Else
        OID_DebtText = AddTextOption("$DF_DEBT", (Debt.GetValue() As Int))
    EndIf

 

[Lupine00]

7 minutes ago, delgathar said:

Just had a thought.  The way my follower gets annoyed if I remove her armor.  It would be cool if she got annoyed if I tried to turn her into a milk maid.  "No, You're the milk maid not I." type thing.

It would. But I'm not sure that MME has a way to easily stop a follower becoming a maid, or any way to query another mod, so it would require a patch.

[Lupine00]

17 hours ago, rangydangy said:

hey after upgrading from 2.11 to 2.12.2 i can no longer make a follower a devious follower. even with the debug option tunred on, the dialog option does not appear

See if there is anything in your log file that would suggest a whole lot of crashing from DF.

 

Given the random reliability of Skyrim, if you uninstall and revert to a pre-update save, then re-install while in a quieter cell, it may be perfectly fine.

Have you opened the MCM since the install? Did it update properly? Do the settings look OK?

 

Clearly you have an MCM, you tried the debug option.

 

Did you try some other followers?

 

DF now excludes non PotentialFollower faction members, even from the debug option.

[rjn]

1 hour ago, delgathar said:

 

Just had a thought.  The way my follower gets annoyed if I remove her armor.  It would be cool if she got annoyed if I tried to turn her into a milk maid.  "No, You're the milk maid not I." type thing.

One of the nice moments in Maria Eden 2.5.1 was if you wore a collar and recruited a follower (like Lydia):

 

You: "Follow me I could use your help."

Lydia: (50% chance reply) "What? Me follow a slave? Not likely."  (And you can't recruit her until you get the collar off.)

         (50% chance reply) "No, I have a better idea.  You will follow me."  (Then she becomes your pimp, gives you some rules to follow and insists you strip to advertise your wares)

 

You can't just spam the conversation to overcome the first reply and you get no choice in the second one.  I was impressed and surprised when I saw this the first time.   Lydia got her revenge for all the trouble I dragged her through in previous games.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, rjn said:

One of the nice moments in Maria Eden 2.5.1 was if you wore a collar and recruited a follower (like Lydia):

It loses a little of its magic when you realize that almost everyone in the game has that mechanic in ME; it's kind of fundamental to how that mod works.

The difference there is that the mechanic is entirely in ME.

 

Unfortunately, in this case, DF would have to block internal MME mechanics.

 

Having the follower becomes a milk-maid normally, then takes revenge would be feasible though.

[delgathar]

One problem I have is a situational problem that comes up from having DFC and DLS.  I'm required to have a follower to leave a city.  The city I'm in doesn't have the follower I want, so I get what is supposed to be a temp follower.  But getting rid of that follower becomes very difficult...

 

It's not a problem that needs to be fixed, just something to be aware of when playing with survival.

 

Could you explain chaos mode though.  I'm not really sure what it does.  All I get in MCM is "Chaos Mode GO GO!"

 

[audhol]

Just done quite a long DFC based playthrough and I have some thoughts,

 

Couldn't the DD's be theme linked? I ended up with pink catsuit boots a steel collar a black corset and white gloves. Surely the DF could make more money whoring out a themed P.C. than a random one? (have you seen the kziitd fetish set, that's a real money spinner) Maybe not give the choice of theme but once the first item is chosen by the DF they follow that theme. Having said that the Lozeak Json is really easy to change, no numbers just descriptions.

 

When stripped in towns, not much is stripped if using Bikini armours, I'm guessing you played safe so to not strip wigs etc but perhaps everything that doesn't have sexlabnostrip keyword could be removed? I really liked the fact that with the arms being tied the DF does not release you so you have to struggle out (decided not to bother between riverwood and whiterun)

 

If the p.c. is vibrated from a device that's part of a deal how about if it's the DF that's causing the vibration? Just text based would work "your follower smiles watching you squirm on your plug" "oh sorry I must have accidently set them off ?" It could go further in that if the vibrations cause an orgasm 1 willpower is lost as your reliant on the DF for release. The same could be true for an edge, lose 1 willpower with the line "if you had paid me on time I might have let you cum"

 

I couldn't seem to get the resistance loss from STA to work regardless of slider position however this might be an SE thing or just me being dumb and overwriting something in the wrong order.

 

I didn't find any easter eggs, I get that the point is that they are hidden but maybee the DF could give a tiny clue at least for one or two?

 

Don't you think that modular deals should be on a default of 1 because it gets real confusing with more than that and I had lots of deals that contradicted each other in that some  were in a more advanced stage than others. After restarting with it set to 1 everything flowed much smoother.

 

I hope this doesn't sound like a moan because I managed to get DFC SLS BIS MME (pretty please do some MME content) SW STA RN2 working sweetly together and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, I can't wait to see what SLAX is gonna do when there's an SE version.

[valcon767]

21 minutes ago, audhol said:

I didn't find any easter eggs, I get that the point is that they are hidden but maybee the DF could give a tiny clue at least for one or two?

 

easter eggs

the 3 i remember offhand i will list below ( i know there are more but i do not remember how to trigger them offhand).

1 - devious boots (might actually require pony) in a dungeon, might also need low (below 6) willpower and high debt (over halfway to enslavement).

2 - blindfold in a dungeon, as above for willpower and debt, it might need them but might not

3 - Jarl game, this one has a very limited setup to fire in, and it requires all conditions to be met (be in a Jarl's Longhouse/Palace, high debt, low willpower, wearing a devious collar, not be in any chastity gear, and have 5 levels of deals active).

 

[Lupine00]

One thought...

If you're discussing an entire playthrough, say up front that it's in SE.

When it comes to platform bugs in the SE version, I have no idea. I don't know if they are a "thing", and I don't do the port and I don't test SE during development.

 

My guess is that when problems arise in SE, it's probably due to an underlying mod being not quite right, such as the DD framework.

I don't think there's anything very platform specific in DF itself, apart from a few assets that are rote conversions.

The SE port is thus just a load-in-save-out exercise that ... someone ... performs, unless new assets are added, because those already got converted long ago.

The spanking mini-pack would be a case-in-point there.

  

3 hours ago, audhol said:

Couldn't the DD's be theme linked? I ended up with pink catsuit boots a steel collar a black corset and white gloves. Surely the DF could make more money whoring out a themed P.C. than a random one? (have you seen the kziitd fetish set, that's a real money spinner) Maybe not give the choice of theme but once the first item is chosen by the DF they follow that theme. Having said that the Lozeak Json is really easy to change, no numbers just descriptions.

This is not an uncommon request.

 

Unfortunately, the devices do not all come from the LDC, and some are hardcoded into fragments. There are still hundreds of fragments with hardcoded devices.

Another issue is that that hardcoded devices worked more reliably than the LDC.

 

The LDC would need a major rewrite to perform theming.

Maybe in an ideal world that would be done for other reasons, such as to make it into a global, as I originally proposed to Lozeak.

As a global it would be much quicker to add references to it in fragments and it could realistically be used by other mods.

Downside, that's boring to do - a lot of meticulous busy work classifying the devices - and offers features that are nice, but not exciting, or essential.

 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

When stripped in towns, not much is stripped if using Bikini armours, I'm guessing you played safe so to not strip wigs etc but perhaps everything that doesn't have sexlabnostrip keyword could be removed?

I doubt this was the motivation. I believe Lozeak wrote his stripping in the context of "no bikini armors". He didn't use them, or know much about them.

I just fixed what was there on stripping.

 

I asked the forum about adding multi-slot support and the interest in it was low.

Stripping more slots is trivial (if slow) but...

 

IIRC the enforcement relies on the vanilla Armor and Clothing keywords, which aren't on Bikini items ... unless you put them there, which probably breaks things, because it's always been the case those keywords were location specific.

 

It could scan for bikini keywords, particularly new extended SLAX ones, but if I put those in, its a hard dependency on SLAX, because this is CK stuff.

I could work around that but ... probably there will be a hard dependency on SLAX if I ever do that sort of thing.

For SE to work, I'd need to make sure I've ported SLAX myself in that case I think.

 

 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

If the p.c. is vibrated from a device that's part of a deal how about if it's the DF that's causing the vibration?

There is such a feature relating to piercings that DF adds. Plugs generally might generate a mod event that DF could react to. It would always be down to DD generating the vibration events though. DF can't control that unless it only uses custom plugs.

 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

I couldn't seem to get the resistance loss from STA to work regardless of slider position however this might be an SE thing or just me being dumb and overwriting something in the wrong order.

It uses a mod event and should not be LO dependent. Perhaps an SE thing... 

I have no idea if the SE version works well. DD in SE is also an unknown quantity for me.

Maybe something odd about mod events in SE? Or the port is old, or? I don't know.

 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

Don't you think that modular deals should be on a default of 1

I can't see any special reason for this.

Apart from you usually having plenty of change this if you want to, and a save/load feature for settings already existing and being constantly maintained - it's not a pretend feature - so you don't have to rely too much on defaults anyway... and why would the default not be zero? Or what it is already?

 

 

I don't know what you mean by: 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

I had lots of deals that contradicted each other in that some  were in a more advanced stage than others.

This sounds broken to me. Contradicted? What do you mean? Can you clarify this? Maybe this is some SE bug, or perhaps you have some expectation of behavior that doesn't align with how it actually works. I need to understand a bit more here.

[audhol]

8 hours ago, valcon767 said:

easter eggs

the 3 i remember offhand i will list below

Thank you, I'm gonna start a new playthrough without 3bbb cause Im fed up with things not aligning so Ill try to activate at least one.

 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If you're discussing an entire playthrough, say up front that it's in SE.

Understood yes will do from now on.

 

 

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There is such a feature relating to piercings that DF adds.

Mmmmm I never saw it trigger, I had both nipple and vaginal piercings from early on with countless orgasms caused by them and never saw any interaction with DF she just stood there watching my P.C. roll around on the floor of bleak falls barrow.

 

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The LDC would need a major rewrite to perform theming.

Like I said it's very easy for the user to manipulated the LDC and as you mentioned before there's really no need for items to have dd locking script so perhaps themed items can be new material. There are so many kinky outfits for skyrim im sure the DF can find some new ways to humiliate the P.C. and get more money from whoring her out to customers with peculiar needs.

 

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Contradicted? What do you mean? Can you clarify this?

Yeah maybee my choice of word was wrong. I cant remember exactly and I dont have the save but I had a few deals active so I was already plugged, stripped in towns and offered to merchants as barter, then when asking for a new deal the DF proposed the whore armour which is a backwards step from naked. Honestly it wasn't a big deal and I didnt mean to make it sound like a bug I just found that the whole experience made a lot more sense with only having 1 modular deal instead of the default 3. Mods like yours need to be played a lot before you find out how to set it up to your tastes perhaps other people like having multiple modular deals. I was just thinking for a new user default 1 might be less confusing.

[shiagwen]

cant you make a whip minipack ?    i am sure inte or zaira would help you with this

[shiagwen]

is your mod compatible with CL xdff rules ?

[Lupine00]

28 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

cant you make a whip minipack ?    i am sure inte or zaira would help you with this

I'm not sure there's a need, it would be more about checking for Zap.

 

The reason I was more interested in spanking is because a lot of mods already do whipping.

I'd like to have whipping, especially if I could just play it in SexLab, but ... the only animations I'm aware of for whipping in SexLab are for extreme furnitures, or not very good.

 

If you have a list of good suitable SexLab animations, that would be useful.

[Lupine00]

12 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

is your mod compatible with CL xdff rules ?

I'm guessing you mean DCL XDFF?

I'm not sure what compatibility would look like. It is blissfully unaware of them, so I'd say it isn't.

 

Due to a small oversight in the design of the base XDFF quest, their utility is significantly compromised.

Requiring DCL to use DF would be unreasonable.

So, that means it doesn't help me to implement content in them.

 

That's really the problem with XDFF. It's not some tiny standalone mod; it's built into a giant walled garden the size of Belgium.

Also, the unfortunate limitations that make it hard for each rule to handle its own selection criteria.

This means any rule controller has to be hard-wired to specific rule-sets.

It probably isn't impossible, but XDFF certainly isn't helping there.

 

And then, if I was dependent on it, probably Queen K would change the base quest and break all my stuff.

 

Arguably, DF should have been built around an XDFF-like system, but ... it wasn't.

 

There's a somewhat similar system in Pet Project, that I think has some nice features.

[shiagwen]

55 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not sure there's a need, it would be more about checking for Zap.

 

The reason I was more interested in spanking is because a lot of mods already do whipping.

I'd like to have whipping, especially if I could just play it in SexLab, but ... the only animations I'm aware of for whipping in SexLab are for extreme furnitures, or not very good.

 

If you have a list of good suitable SexLab animations, that would be useful.

you are wrong. the only mod that does whipping is prison overhaul, and that is an old way of whipping. zairas maria eden 2.01 does it good, but the mod is buggy. no other mod does whipping in a way that you can call it that. look at cursed loot for example. it is a shame.

psyche has one whipping animation in sexlab, but that one is without sounds and whipmarks.

inte once told me, he wont make a mini whip mod, because that would be too easy to do for him.

if you would make it good, your mod would be the only one who does it.

 

 

edit : Btw, it would be sensational if you could make a mcm option to disable gag talk mmmmppfff  !  there is a console command : 

set zaddialoguegagdisable to 1   but this one stops working after loading a zone or gamesave. i think tara once told me he got such an option in zazap 8 or 9.

[shiagwen]

11 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm guessing you mean DCL XDFF?

I'm not sure what compatibility would look like. It is blissfully unaware of them, so I'd say it isn't.

 

Due to a small oversight in the design of the base XDFF quest, their utility is significantly compromised.

Requiring DCL to use DF would be unreasonable.

So, that means it doesn't help me to implement content in them.

 

That's really the problem with XDFF. It's not some tiny standalone mod; it's built into a giant walled garden the size of Belgium.

Also, the unfortunate limitations that make it hard for each rule to handle its own selection criteria.

This means any rule controller has to be hard-wired to specific rule-sets.

It probably isn't impossible, but XDFF certainly isn't helping there.

 

And then, if I was dependent on it, probably Queen K would change the base quest and break all my stuff.

 

Arguably, DF should have been built around an XDFF-like system, but ... it wasn't.

 

There's a somewhat similar system in Pet Project, that I think has some nice features.

at your description page you recommended dcur. in dcur the pc can become slave of leon or leah. if i remember right, as soon as this happens they become follower. i never played dcur without xdff, so i am not sure.  without xdff the player has no control about the rules appear. what would happen if leon is follower and slave master ? if that wouuld bring trouble that would mean DF is incompatible to DCUR slavery and the player must watch not to become slave of leon or leah. or dont play with dcur and df together.

[audhol]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

IIRC the enforcement relies on the vanilla Armor and Clothing keywords, which aren't on Bikini items ... unless you put them there

Sorry me again, Bikini armor has keywords armorlight armormaterialXXXX vendoritemarmor plus the sls_bikini and eroticarmor. What keyword would I need to add to that please?

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, audhol said:

Sorry me again, Bikini armor has keywords armorlight armormaterialXXXX vendoritemarmor plus the sls_bikini and eroticarmor. What keyword would I need to add to that please?

Putting a keyword on an item will mean you can be punished for it, but it won't be stripped by the follower, because the follower only knows about slot-32.

 

The vanilla body slot keywords will likely get you punished:

 

ArmorCuirass + (ArmorLight or ArmorHeavy) 

ArmorClothing + ClothingBody

 

TBH I can't be sure about the exact conditions without opening the CK and looking at the dialogs.

But I think if you have either of those combinations you will definitely see a slot-32 item treated as strippable and punishable.

And as they are checked with WornHasFlag, it does not matter what slot you are wearing the item to have the punishment dialog fire - possibly the strip dialog too, though that only strips slot 32.

 

So, for example, by default Melodic's Reverse Bunny Suit Pasties (which aren't exactly concealing your modesty) would be stripped, and would be considered punishable because they have ArmorCuirass and ArmorLight, and they are on slot 32.

 

But Risque Pasties Black, which are from Arcane Knickers (or something) are on slot 46, and have ArmorLight but no ArmorCuirass.

I don't think they would be stripped or punished.

 

I'm not 100% sure (I'd have to check code) about something like Dark Sin Corset Xtra, which is slot-32, has ArmorHeavy, but lacks ArmorCuirass.

 

Also, if you are wearing some DD items you will probably be cut some slack. Probably anything with HeavyBondage or DeviousSuit.

 

Items with NoStrip won't be strippped anyway.

 

So, caveat, this is from memory, and my memory of such details rarely lasts more than 24-hours  

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, shiagwen said:

at your description page you recommended dcur.

Yes. But I'm not recommending the enslavement bit of it. DF is a better alternative to that.

 

XDFF is fun for a little while and then you have had enough of directionless random stuff being done and want it to end.

At which point you better hope to get lucky with that complicated combination checking mechanic.

 

The reason to use DCL is to get caught by random traps. Deviously Enchanted Chests or Devious Lore are viable alternatives.

 

There are other features in DCL you may like, such as finding random keys, combat defeat, NPCs saying creepy stuff about bondage to you, or making the PC submit to random rapes, or ... there was once ... misogyny blow-job demands. As I understand it, that's been removed. Anyway, lots of things that can give you extra reasons to rely on your DF.

 

The quest content is nice, but ... if you do the Leon quest, I suggest you do not have a DF at the time, and refuse slavery at the end.

 

Failing that, you can pause DF in the debug menu during XDFF enslavement.

Also, IIRC DF auto-pauses for enslavement via Simple Slavery - unless it's via DF itself.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, shiagwen said:

you are wrong. the only mod that does whipping is prison overhaul, and that is an old way of whipping. zairas maria eden 2.01 does it good, but the mod is buggy. no other mod does whipping in a way that you can call it that. look at cursed loot for example. it is a shame.

psyche has one whipping animation in sexlab, but that one is without sounds and whipmarks.

inte once told me, he wont make a mini whip mod, because that would be too easy to do for him.

if you would make it good, your mod would be the only one who does it.

I am wrong???

 

You don't say what I'm wrong about.

 

PoP is not the mod with whipping, which you yourself attest to, and I can assure you, Zap contains whipping functionality in its library, and I used it in my unfinished Skooma Whore replacement mod. I also used the combat behavior technique directly in my Skooma Whore replacement mod.

SD+ does whipping.

Slaverun does more whipping than every other mod put together, including PoP.

Shout Like a Version does a lot of whipping.

Pet Project does whipping.

Devious Regulations does whipping.

DCL does whipping, though you say it's not whipping, which is confusing. I suspect a language issue here.

Maria Eden does whipping, in multiple different versions of the mod.

 

Most of the mods with whipping have whip marks and sounds, but no SexLab animation can have them because that's not how SexLab works.

However the SexLab animation is useful for ... animating ... that is how DF spanking works. The sounds come from Spank that Ass, as does the red bum.

 

You might be able to find it hidden away inside the SLD code too, or perhaps not, though it definitely isn't exposed.

 

It's been a long time since PoP worked for me, so I forget what it's whipping was like, but IIRC, it used the combat behavior technique.

The question with that is whether you hate the spinning around. The Zap version avoids the spinning.

 

To do nice whipping, I would need nice whipping animations, otherwise it's not going to be any different from SD+.

There is whipping in the Cobalt pack, but it's not really usable.

 

Maybe you should talk to @audhol about this? I believe he likes to make animations.

 

6 hours ago, shiagwen said:

Btw, it would be sensational if you could make a mcm option to disable gag talk

Gag talk is nothing to do with Zap for DD gags. They rely on DD mechanics. Nothing T.ara does is going to change how DD works.

 

I forget exactly what features there are for that, but there are keywords to identify gags that are hard to speak, and probably a property you can set to make them hard, or impossible to speak through.

 

SLS offers a no-trading feature when gagged.

[audhol]

24 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Putting a keyword on an item will mean you can be punished for it, but it won't be stripped by the follower, because the follower only knows about slot-32.

Ok got it thanks. I think the follower strips shoes too though.

 

15 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

there was once ... misogyny blow-job demands.

Easily the best bit of DCL I do miss that force greet for a B.J.

[audhol]

2 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe you should talk to @audhol about this? I believe he likes to make animations.

Maybe @Lupine00 should talk to @audhol if they would like some anims for their wonderful mod.  

[shiagwen]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I am wrong???

 

You don't say what I'm wrong about.

 

PoP is not the mod with whipping, which you yourself attest to, and I can assure you, Zap contains whipping functionality in its library, and I used it in my unfinished Skooma Whore replacement mod. I also used the combat behavior technique directly in my Skooma Whore replacement mod.

SD+ does whipping.

Slaverun does more whipping than every other mod put together, including PoP.

Shout Like a Version does a lot of whipping.

Pet Project does whipping.

Devious Regulations does whipping.

DCL does whipping, though you say it's not whipping, which is confusing. I suspect a language issue here.

Maria Eden does whipping, in multiple different versions of the mod.

 

Most of the mods with whipping have whip marks and sounds, but no SexLab animation can have them because that's not how SexLab works.

However the SexLab animation is useful for ... animating ... that is how DF spanking works. The sounds come from Spank that Ass, as does the red bum.

 

You might be able to find it hidden away inside the SLD code too, or perhaps not, though it definitely isn't exposed.

 

It's been a long time since PoP worked for me, so I forget what it's whipping was like, but IIRC, it used the combat behavior technique.

The question with that is whether you hate the spinning around. The Zap version avoids the spinning.

 

To do nice whipping, I would need nice whipping animations, otherwise it's not going to be any different from SD+.

There is whipping in the Cobalt pack, but it's not really usable.

 

Maybe you should talk to @audhol about this? I believe he likes to make animations.

 

Gag talk is nothing to do with Zap for DD gags. They rely on DD mechanics. Nothing T.ara does is going to change how DD works.

 

I forget exactly what features there are for that, but there are keywords to identify gags that are hard to speak, and probably a property you can set to make them hard, or impossible to speak through.

 

SLS offers a no-trading feature when gagged.

i thought it is clear when i said you are wrong that there is a lot of whipping. the mods you listed here are not what i mean.

weather unknown to me (pet project) or not my interest ( devious regulations wearing a belt during cw ) or i did tested them and they failed my criteria to be used in a game (shout like a virgin, slaverun, omg that is no mod that is a gamekiller) or they stopped using whipping (sd+, since sl dialogues etc were  added, there was a series of mods added which made the requirement list already blow up the game) or, finally, the whipping is limited to 3 seconds (DCUR, Captured Dreams, Slaves- that fishburger mod)  i wasted very much time with those mods which sounded promising but were unplayable or unintersting to play in skyrim.  maria eden would have been the best of all mods, if it ever would run without collapsing bugs.

if you used zap library already in your unfinished mod  and have experience with it, why not build it into df ? 

 

the console command does work. it just stops working when switching zone or leaving game. however it is made, i dont want to Mmmppfff anymore.

 

btw. what about mulitple followers in your mod ? incompatible ?

 

[KyLeeKu]

Hello. I had a problem with the CTD when the whore sign was equipped. I found that the texture size for DF_SignTown was set to 499x512. Changing it to 512x512 fixed the CTD for me. Reverted back and forth a couple times just to make sure that was what was really causing the CTD. Note, I am running skyrim SE. Not sure if incorrect texture size cause same CTD issues in LE.