Controversial: What's the Point of Gay Pride?

[dharvinia]

1 hour ago, Doctor Cadaver said:

I take a neutral stance when it comes to sexual orientation, politics and religion.  It's fine, as long as you don't try to convert me.

You cannot be converted to something you do not want to do.

You can be coerced, browbeat, strong armed, but not converted.

 

If you take a neutral stance, that is a choice, but to justify your choice with "unless"  means you have an opinion.

To have such an opinion is okay.

We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it.

Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.
 

[Cozy]

Not looking to convert anyone. o_O That's always weird when I hear it. I deleted my last post, as it became apparent where the rabbit hole was leading, and as I mentioned my initial post, I just don't have the patience, nor the stamina to go into it right now. It will be one of my old walls of text if I do, and yeahh...

 

Fauxfurry thank you for supplying that data, and I am honestly not surprised. While I really don't care about the parade one bit, and honestly see no problem with it. I am not saying there aren't problems with the LGBT+ community. I mean fuck I got called transphobic for simply stating I was born biologically male, which I was. I mean, I transitioned from male to female. I know there is a lot of BS on both sides regarding non-binary people these days, but when I am very clearly in that very same sentence encouraging others to love themselves regardless only to be canceled essentially. Just unbelievable that I was attacked like that. I am a little old school considering when I transitioned, and well I do feel out of place with the LGBT+ community these days. Too many reactionaries that are way to quick to cancel people over ridiculous reasons. Some in the younger crowd just rub me the wrong way, especially considering all I have done for the LBGT+ community in my youth. To have some kid who was a literal child when I was fighting for their rights get self righteous with me over frivolous nonsense. Rambling... Also as a disclaimer I know it's not every young person, I've met plenty of great ones. Still there are enough where someone like me has just all together given up in terms of advocacy.

 

I cannot it good conscious however fully agree with some of the sentiment in this thread, based on just life experience, working with the community for several years in my 20's, and seeing discrimination, and how far it can reach first hand. I have recently witnessed discrimination happen with a loved one on an astonishing level through systemic means. In terms of legislation there are some states that can deny you medical care based on religious reasons. So if you're LGBT with a Christian doctor they can refuse to treat you. I don't mean refuse you hormones, I mean refuse all medical treatment all together even for something that requires immediate attention. Also I am probably coming off as an out and proud type, but I'm just mostly proud. I don't shout my status as transwoman, nor as a pansexual off roof tops. It's in my mind just a one of countless components that make up of who I am. In some ways it is an important one sure, but I am a human being not a label. Something I have a lot of problems with the younger generation with is that they seem to revel in labels, which is unbelievably counter productive. (Again I know not everyone is like this.) I only mention it when I feel it is relevant to do so, and safe. For most part I just go about my business and live my life like anyone else. I am fortunate to have the passing privilege so I remain under the radar easily.

 

I used to take the same position as the OP of this thread when I was in my early 20's, but changed my tune as I got older. The way I look at it is let people do their thing so long as they are causing no one harm. There is much more I can likely say, using actual data, and anecdotes, but I rather not right now. I just don't have the stamina like I used to. So I'm clocking out.

 

Thanks for the discourse.

[killerqueen92]

14 hours ago, arkel0608 said:

Same thing can be said about everything. What's the point of it all? 

Is just your american brain talking, people will happily call you a pidor and burn any rainbow related stuff when you walk outside your country. In lots and lots of region of the world you will get stoned to death if you're ever caught with a penis up your butt hole, or burned alive, or a million other ways to die just because of who you are. Even in the more accepting area of the world, people still use who you are as an insult in daily conversations, probably by a million other 'you' who aren't bisexual. And thinking 'the majority of west' accepts homosexuality as a whole is hilarious as hell, even in your own country it's something close to 60% - 40%. Croatia, for example, banned the act of homosexuality just recently.

 

As for the rest of your post, sounds like some 14 yo antsy kid that thinks his opinion actually means anything, and wants to be edgy by being cynical, but really just ignorant. Hope you don't get on television and yell about goverment turning the friggin frogs gay when you become an adult. 

???? SAY IT LOUDER

[DoctaSax]

10 hours ago, idonotlikeusernames said:

 

See I used to think that, but then we experienced a rise in both far right sentiment in the political mainstream and radical Islam on the fringes (for now).

Fair point. Where I live, even the far right stopped trying to get any traction with putting the genie of gay and trans rights back in the bottle. So when I go 'well, the political battles have been fought and won', that's pretty much me not thinking further than my own country. And it obviously also doesn't take into account harassment on the street and what not.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, 27X said:

 

That's great that you're in a position to be annoyed by activism, but gander back to the 80s and 90s and being gay could literally get you killed, or even better get you sentenced to a long death by institutionalized neglect. What happened to harvey milk was not "annoying". Dying in a greenwich village hospital while George Bush said literally "try not being that way" was not annoying.

 

Yep current progressives who think everything needs to be dialed to 11 probably need a reality check. By the same token you're not required to pay attention in the slightest.

 

This is what happened twenty years ago.

 

this was 15 years before that.

https://itvs.org/films/screaming-queens

The video seems to be unavailable 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, 27X said:

 

this was 15 years before that.

https://itvs.org/films/screaming-queens

I guess you don't know why the police raided in the 1st place. It was because of traces of drugs and Peter Zielinski was said to be in that club that night. When the raid initially began It had NOTHING to do with the gays or transgenders. Problem is people like you take everything as an offense, you shouldn't be protesting a simple police raid in the 1st place and then escalate it to call it oppression on your favor.

 

And as for George Bush saying try not being that way, I don't see the problem in a straight mans honest advice when the law for gay people can't change overnight? Or do you not know sexual orientation can be changed either?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Beast16 said:

And as for George Bush saying try not being that way, I don't see the problem in a straight mans honest advice when the law for gay people can't change overnight? Or do you not know sexual orientation can be changed either?

Where's your evidence that gay people can be converted into straight people (let alone without causing severe harm to their mental health)? And by your logic you could tell slaves back in the day that they should just "try not being mad about it" because the law "can't change overnight".

[gregathit]

On 9/24/2019 at 7:44 PM, HotCumDrinker said:

Look, all I want is someone to justify Pride, cause it's getting annoying.

I can't justify it, but it is a natural thing folks who were oppressed, or who thought they were oppressed, to celebrate their release from oppression.  Nothing mysterious about it really.

[gregathit]

2 hours ago, Freyadiin said:

Where's your evidence that gay people can be converted into straight people (let alone without causing severe harm to their mental health)? And by your logic you could tell slaves back in the day that they should just "try not being mad about it" because the law "can't change overnight".

Conversely where is your evidence they can't be converted?  How do you prove that conversion causes severe harm?  What is the measure for mental health?   There isn't any science or biological evidence out there that I've ever seen.  Personally, I really don't much care what folks are attracted to or why.  That is up to them.  As long as they leave me alone, I leave them alone.   We can all be different and still get along fine.

 

And you can't compare this to slavery.  Slavery was physical thing.  I understand what you are trying to say, but it really isn't an apples to apples comparison in my opinion.

[27X]

6 hours ago, Beast16 said:

Problem is people like you

 

Nah, The problem with "people like you" is your lowkey bullshit from when some shit you didn't like formed the entire basis of your worldview 'cause your parents or some person you allowed to completely influence how you perceive things and then everyone around you needs to have the same worldview or your smelly moldy security blanket gets all stuck in your buttcheeks from the furious ruffling and rustling of jimmies and the like. You and BottomhoodofSteel should form a club.

 

If you actually understood the context of the incident, it's not that the police responded, it's HOW the police responded, the public and open views of the officers involved and most importantly how the city officials and greater police handled shit afterward. All I can surmise is you watched the video until you got to one of your insecurity tumors and the rest of it was just a blur that couldn't be heard over the sound of your reeing.

 

I'm straight as fuck by the way, I mean like antigay queen-kryptonite straight. So that thing where you get uncomfortably fidgety and sweaty when you see Billy Herrington getting pounded by Van Darkholme and you cross your arms and tilt your head to avoid anything moving anywhere near your crotch? Yeah that's never happened to me ever. I just see two guys fucking, one of whom isn't even gay, but that money is hella sweet, which covers about 90% of porn, so your 'you people' /pol/ level diatribe is about as relevant or topical as cherry hummus on garlic pizza.

 

 

and as for the laws changing overnight, there's been plenty of precedent for that happening for a very very long time, and again the context you're actiing like doesn't exist was Georgie Boy was allowing his religion to color and command and dictate government policy, both logistic and social. Which is, you know, illegal and unconstitutional and stuff.

[megamantaray]

On 9/24/2019 at 9:56 PM, DoctaSax said:

I think gay pride parades make better television than gaming conventions.

If you've ever been to a Smash tournament you know just about anything makes better television than a gaming convention, especially tournament-related ones.

You can smell those. Have you ever seen the signs they put outside like "HEY PLEASE SHOWER AND USE DEODORANT BEFORE COMING IN!" they're there for a reason.

This is totally off-topic but I've got nothing to add to the thread I was just reminded of nearly fainting during a local Sm4sh thing last year because someone stretched nearby.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Conversely where is your evidence they can't be converted?  How do you prove that conversion causes severe harm?  What is the measure for mental health?   There isn't any science or biological evidence out there that I've ever seen.  Personally, I really don't much care what folks are attracted to or why.  That is up to them.  As long as they leave me alone, I leave them alone.   We can all be different and still get along fine.

 

And you can't compare this to slavery.  Slavery was physical thing.  I understand what you are trying to say, but it really isn't an apples to apples comparison in my opinion.

Well, he's the one making the claim that people can just be converted, but regardless, here's just some evidence of the contrary. The first paper cites several more sources:

https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918369.2018.1538407
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688310
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814980
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24635593
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22963423

At this point in time, I'm not aware of any safe conversion therapy procedures conducted by medical professionals as opposed to religious groups.

 

Fair point, I shouldn't have compared it to slavery. I suppose what I was trying to say is that just telling people to "deal with it" and tolerate being treated unfairly in the eyes of the law is not a great thing to do.

[V The Heretic]

23 hours ago, GimmeBACON said:

Far as I can tell, the straight pride parade was meant to point out their political double standard, and to poke fun at those whom held it; and just like the "It's okay to be white" flyers, one side, guess which, completely lost their shit.

 

Edit: not to promote violence, but the alphabet soup probably makes up about 10% of the population, so the "don't start a fight you can't finish"...

Point out which political double standard? Gay pride or Straight pride? Because they are both equal in that boat.

As for don't start a fight you can't finish, rewind back. Define politically correct and you'll understand what direction I was going in. If not, I'll explain it to you if need be. Your choice. Wasn't insinuating violence or even close to implying it.

[gregathit]

1 hour ago, Freyadiin said:

Well, he's the one making the claim that people can just be converted, but regardless, here's just some evidence of the contrary.

Um.......after reading all of them, I'm not convinced of anything.  The sample sizes are tiny and are little more than a blurb summary and doesn't show any statistics or tracking.  Asking someone questions isn't science.  That's opinion polling.  Calling it a study doesn't somehow legitimize it.  The only one that was legit is the first link and if you read the abstract, it only states that it is "unlikely" to work and as to harm, it says there is "some risk" of harm.  "Some risk" is not the same as "severe harm."  It also states "the task force concluded that the population that undergoes SOCE tends to have strongly conservative religious views that lead them to seek to change their sexual orientation".  

 

I'm not saying that you are wrong or that who you were quoting is right.  My point is this is a mental thing and not a physical or biological thing.  As a mental thing, there is probably never going to be anything that "cures" folks of being straight or gay.  It is a choice that one makes with their mind.  Mental things are rarely cut and dried.  You can't measure them.  You can't isolate them. 

 

As to religious "conversions": why should we be surprised or even concerned by this.  Folks stop drinking, cussing and any number of other things due to religion.  Sexual preference change due to religion shouldn't be shocking.  As long as folks aren't forced, who cares.

 

Again, I'm not for one one side or the other.  I just don't see that someone changing their mind about what sex they are attracted to is anything to be excited about.  I didn't use to like broccoli.  Now I do.   I didn't suffer mental harm from liking it or not liking it.  Now I'm not talking here about anyone being forced or pressured.  

 

[gregathit]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:57 PM, GimmeBACON said:

but the alphabet soup probably makes up about 10% of the population.........

Here is a funny article that shows that American's constantly overestimate their numbers:  https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overestimate-gay-population.aspx

The real number is about 4.5%.  To put things into perspective, this is 3 times smaller than the number of Americans who have a disability:  https://www.bustle.com/p/how-many-americans-have-a-disability-a-new-survey-indicates-the-number-is-higher-than-you-think-74308

 

Don't you just love statistics. 

[WilerxWiler]

Attention whores need attention and people likes to make profit from it, I had this argument with a  few LGBT friends and none one there wants to be associate with the lgbt as an institution, just want to enjoy a healthy sexual life in peace but these assholes wont let it go, Do you guys remember the day when the slogan was "Nobody should care what a person does with other in their bed"? Now why everyone should care what I sleep with or not?.

Sexual orientation became a new brand, a product,a label that continues to de-humanize people with the difference that we do it by ourselves by reducing us to letters  inside of an Acronym that supposedly stands for equality and tolerance while it auto-discriminates itself by creating a new letter every time someone puts it's genitals close to anything that isn't a cisgender human.

Tl;dr: We fucked up sexuality, weaponized it and disguised it as "pride".

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, gregathit said:

As to religious "conversions": why should we be surprised or even concerned by this.  Folks stop drinking, cussing and any number of other things due to religion.  Sexual preference change due to religion shouldn't be shocking.  As long as folks aren't forced, who cares.

Again, I'm not one one side or the other.  I just don't see that someone changing their mind about what sex they are attracted to is anything to be excited about.  I didn't use to like broccoli.  Now I do.   I didn't suffer mental harm from liking it or not liking it.  Now I'm not talking here about anyone being forced or pressured.  

The issue is that sometimes religious communities do try to pressure and coerce LGBTQ+ members into undergoing conversion therapy, despite there being nothing wrong with being LGBTQ+ either legally or in just harming others. I say this as someone with a devoutly Christian family that made several attempts to convert me, and used their religion to try and demonise me.

Liking or disliking broccoli isn't outlawed, and doesn't face nearly as much social opposition as being gay does. Maybe sexual orientation can change, but I see it as immoral to outlaw or socially persecute the harmless act of having consensual sex with or marrying someone of the same gender, and attempt to pressure someone else to be converted.

[GimmeBACON]

27 minutes ago, 01010110 said:

Point out which political double standard? Gay pride or Straight pride? Because they are both equal in that boat.

As for don't start a fight you can't finish, rewind back. Define politically correct and you'll understand what direction I was going in. If not, I'll explain it to you if need be. Your choice. Wasn't insinuating violence or even close to implying it.

1.) The straight pride parade was attacked every step of the way by "progressive media", now if the tables were turned and say fox was "attacking" the gay pride parade, there'd be a whole shitstorm of bigotry and hate speech. That's the double standard.

 

2.) Fuck if I could define politically correct, all "progressive media" and the left does is brow-beat you about not being PC enough.

 

3.) I'm sure you didn't literally mean violence, regardless, if you could make "don't start a fight you can't finish" not sound like a challenge, by all means. ❤️

[gregathit]

I don't buy that narrative.  How can a religious community coerce or pressure you?  Unless you are a member of their group, why would you give a crap what they think or what they want you to do?  As to your family, I can't speak to that.  I don't know them or you.  Are they really demonizing you, or do they just care about you and want what they think is best for you.  There is a difference.  Perhaps they are just misguided and not malicious.  Again, you know better than I on this.  I'll respect your judgement on it.

 

I'm not aware of being gay being outlawed in the US.  So I don't really get that part.  As to social opposition, life sucks, deal with it.  I get that it sounds "unfair" or even harsh, but why would you think that folks who aren't gay and aren't interested in hearing, seeing or caring about what it means to be gay are going to be your cheerleaders?  You've made a choice to swim upstream.  Are you going to blame the river for flowing in one direction?  This is the part I really just don't get.  4.5% of the population doesn't get to push the others around.  You can't force 90% of the population to socially accommodate you.  That anyone tries this is nonsensical and will always result in failure. 

 

Again, I'll reiterate, I'm not for persecuting or harassment or any other form of oppression of folks for any reason.  But is is worth noting that if you choose to wear your underwear on the outside of your clothes, you are going to attract attention and some of it will be negative.  This is life.  That anyone would be shocked by it just makes me scratch my head.

 

 

[V The Heretic]

20 minutes ago, GimmeBACON said:

1.) The straight pride parade was attacked every step of the way by "progressive media", now if the tables were turned and say fox was "attacking" the gay pride parade, there'd be a whole shitstorm of bigotry and hate speech. That's the double standard.

 

2.) Fuck if I could define politically correct, all "progressive media" and the left does is brow-beat you about not being PC enough.

 

3.) I'm sure you didn't literally mean violence, regardless, if you could make "don't start a fight you can't finish" not sound like a challenge, by all means. ❤️

Ah, you picked up and answered it without realizing. It's literally the era of politically correct. In the case of what I am saying, at this point, it's not about where it starts, it's about where it finishes.

War of words. War of what is the most correct. Progressive media is the bane of everyone's existence, but that is a topic for another time. However, it's literally just people nit picking each other over the words they use, starting a pointless fight where it never ends with no winning conclusion. :3

[Darkpig]

Quote

Annoying

First world problems

Been there done that

 

[GimmeBACON]

47 minutes ago, 01010110 said:

Ah, you picked up and answered it without realizing. It's literally the era of politically correct. In the case of what I am saying, at this point, it's not about where it starts, it's about where it finishes.

War of words. War of what is the most correct. Progressive media is the bane of everyone's existence, but that is a topic for another time. However, it's literally just people nit picking each other over the words they use, starting a pointless fight where it never ends with no winning conclusion. :3

... Well, one sides playing the games, the other isn't. ?

[27X]

15 hours ago, gregathit said:

How can a religious community coerce or pressure you? 

In the american south, religious pressure is enormous and it's not passive. In africa religious pressure forms the basis of a metric shitton of society, and it sure as hell impacts gay society and sexuality, and the female clitoris is an endangered species. In Indonesia people are blowing each other up in a pretty large scale right now, and ya know the India Pakistan thing, which is kinda not even about water rights or eminent domain.

 

While those things aren't a big deal to average city going westerner, other places don't have the boon of civility and economic throughput to just be like "you do you" (or me if you signed the consent forms in triplicate and have a notary public's receipt), or they're just ignoring it outright in favor of religion setting the tone for society. (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen)

[27X]

44 minutes ago, GimmeBACON said:

... Well, one sides playing the games, the other isn't. ?

You'll find both sides are playing, which is why it keeps coming up. People are still trying to be butthurt about Dave's new special, and he just continues to completely ignore them while selling out arenas. There's a definite lesson there.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, gregathit said:

I'm not aware of being gay being outlawed in the US.  So I don't really get that part.  As to social opposition, life sucks, deal with it.  I get that it sounds "unfair" or even harsh, but why would you think that folks who aren't gay and aren't interested in hearing, seeing or caring about what it means to be gay are going to be your cheerleaders?  You've made a choice to swim upstream.  Are you going to blame the river for flowing in one direction?  This is the part I really just don't get.  4.5% of the population doesn't get to push the others around.  You can't force 90% of the population to socially accommodate you.  That anyone tries this is nonsensical and will always result in failure. 

 

Again, I'll reiterate, I'm not for persecuting or harassment or any other form of oppression of folks for any reason.  But is is worth noting that if you choose to wear your underwear on the outside of your clothes, you are going to attract attention and some of it will be negative.  This is life.  That anyone would be shocked by it just makes me scratch my head.

It might not be outlawed in the US, but that doesn't mean it isn't outlawed elsewhere in the world.

We can't force people to accommodate us, but we can resist those with less empathy and those who can't mind their own business. Pride is and has always been as much a protest as a celebration.