Controversial: What's the Point of Gay Pride?

[HotCumDrinker]

Speaking as a member of the LGBT community (I cringed just typing that), I find the whole Pride scene kinda annoying. I assume it picked up as a way to destigmatize not being straight and to tell people not to feel bad about and to do just that, be proud. Except there's not really any stigma around LGBT anymore, at least not in the US or the majority of the west, unless you've got very strong religious views or something, but pride's not going to change that. Also, I'm not proud to be Bi. The idea of being proud to be the way you are is just silly, because its no accomplishment. Same thing with self esteem, but I can talk about that in my next controversial post. 

 

Look, all I want is someone to justify Pride, cause it's getting annoying.

[Cg0779]

Publicity as well as people wanting to feel superior to others even though they don't have a single significant difference. (Just my personal view, I don't want my inbox clogged with triggered comments)

[KiraxSkyrim]

Same thing can be said about everything. What's the point of it all? 

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Except there's not really any stigma around LGBT anymore

Is just your american brain talking, people will happily call you a pidor and burn any rainbow related stuff when you walk outside your country. In lots and lots of region of the world you will get stoned to death if you're ever caught with a penis up your butt hole, or burned alive, or a million other ways to die just because of who you are. Even in the more accepting area of the world, people still use who you are as an insult in daily conversations, probably by a million other 'you' who aren't bisexual. And thinking 'the majority of west' accepts homosexuality as a whole is hilarious as hell, even in your own country it's something close to 60% - 40%. Croatia, for example, banned the act of homosexuality just recently.

 

As for the rest of your post, sounds like some 14 yo antsy kid that thinks his opinion actually means anything, and wants to be edgy by being cynical, but really just ignorant. Hope you don't get on television and yell about goverment turning the friggin frogs gay when you become an adult. 

[27X]

Humans form tribes, tribes have customs, rules, markings, and ritualized behavior to compare and contrast them from and to other tribes. There will always be those that want their tribe to be THE tribe, that's how the human brain works. It's a literal prioritizing and sorting engine, and it's never going to go away, and neither is the behavior.

[DoctaSax]

People celebrate a bunch of things. At this point, gay pride is just another excuse to have a party. Which is fine, no?

[HotCumDrinker]

@Cg0779, That's sorta what I've always thought, but there must be a less cynical reason, surely.

 

@arkel0608, I believe you mistook me and my genuine (if bluntly put) question for, as you put it, a 14 yo antsy kid. If that's the case, I would encourage you to actually take a shot at the question. Let's simplify it to something like "what is the goal of Pride, do their various organizations actually effectively work towards that goal, and what is the result of that?"

 

@27X, yes, but there's no (real) Straight Pride organization, so there must be something keeping it together except mutual familiarity, right?

 

@DoctaSax, that's probably a big part of it, but other things like massive music festivals and gaming conventions don't get much media coverage like Pride parades always do (at least not just "omg this thing is happening, it's such big news"). Why does this big "party group" constantly appear on news programs, posters, and clothes and stickers and buttons and everything?

[DoctaSax]

I think gay pride parades make better television than gaming conventions.

[GimmeBACON]

[27X]

35 minutes ago, HotCumDrinker said:

 

@27X, yes, but there's no (real) Straight Pride organization, so there must be something keeping it together except mutual familiarity, right?

Is that a joke?

 

 

Tribes are how we survived. Humans have S tier memories and sorting, everything else humans have on the tier chart is hot garbage except endurance and sweating; if you think that built in behavior and all the bullshit and fluff and absurd customs surrounding it is coincidental you seriously need to read a book or 12. or 30.

[azoth1267]

Ignoring every other post and not really even caring much about the topic, ill post my rather pointless uh... point.

 

The point as it were is very simple, in the "modern" incarnation of it, gay pride is political posturing.

[V The Heretic]

Gay pride is whatever you want it to be. I'm lesbian and cringe at the thought of anything LGBTQ+ at this point.

Think of it like this. Gay pride started as say, pointing out those whom have made a difference in the world like Black History Month and etc. It was literally that. Now a days, gay pride isn't just political posturing, but it's a party for a bunch of people to get together, party and circle jerk each other till it's over. Jokes aside, today, it's lost it's meaning due to the people who have given the LGBTQ a bad rep.

27x isn't far off though, it went from "celebrating" and "remembering" those whom strive to make a difference, to a tribal cesspool of people from trying to do the right thing to over abundance of entitled political correctness. Mind you, the few that are trying to do the right thing are drowned out by those whom do bad.

As for straight pride? Why is it needed? By technicality, straight is apart of the LGBTQ+ last time I recall, just drowned out. Plus, why have a straight pride anything, plenty of people whom are straight have their celebration days that doesn't need to conflict with something that has it's own meaning. It's sounding more like a pissing contest and insecurity to me than having real meaning.

If they want to have their pride party, go for it. Don't involve me and don't start a fight you can't finish. (Too late to say that.) But, yeah, the point of it was to celebrate those whom have done good deeds and made a difference.

[GimmeBACON]

34 minutes ago, 01010110 said:

As for straight pride? Why is it needed? By technicality, straight is apart of the LGBTQ+ last time I recall, just drowned out. Plus, why have a straight pride anything, plenty of people whom are straight have their celebration days that doesn't need to conflict with something that has it's own meaning. It's sounding more like a pissing contest and insecurity to me than having real meaning.

If they want to have their pride party, go for it. Don't involve me and don't start a fight you can't finish. (Too late to say that.) But, yeah, the point of it was to celebrate those whom have done good deeds and made a difference.

Far as I can tell, the straight pride parade was meant to point out their political double standard, and to poke fun at those whom held it; and just like the "It's okay to be white" flyers, one side, guess which, completely lost their shit.

 

Edit: not to promote violence, but the alphabet soup probably makes up about 10% of the population, so the "don't start a fight you can't finish"...

[idonotlikeusernames]

3 hours ago, DoctaSax said:

People celebrate a bunch of things. At this point, gay pride is just another excuse to have a party. Which is fine, no?

 

See I used to think that, but then we experienced a rise in both far right sentiment in the political mainstream and radical Islam on the fringes (for now). So in addition to the party I now see it doubles as a protest too it signals to the polticians that we're out there, that we have intention of going back into the closet and that we cannot be totally ignored anymore.

I'm not the most extroverted guy by nature, but these last two years I have taken part for the above reasons and maybe that is tribal of me, but no more than joining a political party of finding religion. Unfortunately we have still got to fight for what is granted to heterosexual people, or at least heterosexual men by default, the right to enjoy your life, including your sexuality in peace.

Not that the party can't be nice too.

[HotCumDrinker]

@01010110, I appreciate the time you took to type out that essay, and I think you make a lot of good points. I'd like to clarify that I don't think straight Pride should be a thing, because I don't think any kind of Pride should be a thing, especially now that they've shifted so far from their original purpose.

 

I think @azoth1267 is right and that it's become almost a lobbying group, except it uses mass media coverage, celebrity endorsement, and word of mouth to lobby instead of money. Frankly, I'd rather they just did the latter. I think it's fair to say that, day to day, Pride can be a lot more annoying than the NRA.

[27X]

Quote

annoying.

 

That's great that you're in a position to be annoyed by activism, but gander back to the 80s and 90s and being gay could literally get you killed, or even better get you sentenced to a long death by institutionalized neglect. What happened to harvey milk was not "annoying". Dying in a greenwich village hospital while George Bush said literally "try not being that way" was not annoying.

 

Yep current progressives who think everything needs to be dialed to 11 probably need a reality check. By the same token you're not required to pay attention in the slightest.

 

This is what happened twenty years ago.

 

this was 15 years before that.

https://itvs.org/films/screaming-queens

[Guest]

Homophobia and transphobia run rampant even today, in 2019, and all over the world. Pride is good because it

1) Lets LGBTQ+ people say "fuck it" for a day and just be free to celebrate a part of themselves they've often had to hide/been attacked for other days of the year

2) Is a reminder to others that LGBTQ+ people exist, no matter how much some wish we didn't. Bear in mind the first Pride was a protest

3) Gets people who understand firsthand what it means to be LGBTQ+ and the struggles associated together. It's very different having supportive, but straight and cis friends (not to devalue how important such friends are) vs having people who've lived through what you're going through

[Cozy]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

 

That's great that you're in a position to be annoyed by activism, but gander back to the 80s and 90s and being gay could literally get you killed, or even better get you sentenced to a long death by institutionalized neglect. What happened to harvey milk was not "annoying". Dying in a greenwich village hospital while George Bush said literally "try not being that way" was not annoying.

 

Yep current progressives who think everything needs to be dialed to 11 probably need a reality check. By the same token you're not required to pay attention in the slightest.

This is what happened twenty years ago.

Spoiler

 

this was 15 years before that.

https://itvs.org/films/screaming-queens

 

I noticed this thread earlier this evening, and while I was tempted to chime in. I just don't have the patience I used to have. However thank you. A lot of younger folks don't even know what Stonewall was about these days. I transitioned in the late 90's and even then it was not easy being different. Stealth was pretty much the only way to go for me, for a long time. ehhh I just am too tired to get into detail, but I will try to relay this much. Pride in the LGBTQ context for many seems to be subjective. For me it is absence of shame. However the marches exist to remind people LGBTQ people exist. It does have it's significance culturally in giving us a voice. Can some of these parades be gawdy, and cringe worthy as hell? Sure, but so are a lot of parades. Fights breaking out in The Saint Patty's day parade, while people vomit green beer is also pretty cringe worthy. For me though it's simply this, I am proud of who I am despite being trans or pan. I am proud of myself as the human being, and won't let others bring me down by isolating, and attacking aspects of me that they can label such as my gender or sexuality. I'm not just trans, I am a human being who happens to be trans. I am proud to be that person while accepting that being trans is a facet of my character, but doesn't define it. Okay I am exhausted, and looping a bit.

[FauxFurry]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

 

That's great that you're in a position to be annoyed by activism, but gander back to the 80s and 90s and being gay could literally get you killed, or even better get you sentenced to a long death by institutionalized neglect. What happened to harvey milk was not "annoying". Dying in a greenwich village hospital while George Bush said literally "try not being that way" was not annoying.

 

Yep current progressives who think everything needs to be dialed to 11 probably need a reality check. By the same token you're not required to pay attention in the slightest.

 

This is what happened twenty years ago.

 

this was 15 years before that.

https://itvs.org/films/screaming-queens

Just to avoid having you set yourself up for a seemingly obvious counter if you use that line of argumentation elsewhere, I can also point out that America was at war with the Taliban less than 20 years ago so America should occasionally bomb Afghanistan to remind them to never do it again.

Likewise, one could compare it to dousing a new house which stands where another house which was consumed by a raging inferno once stood.

 

If a specific problem is solved, then there is little need continually draw attention to said problem save for historical remembrance. Of course, humans have problems letting go of traditions even when they no longer serve their original societal function, even membership in problem solving organizations who have succeeded in their original aims.

 

As for the claim for need to remind people of the existence of the LGBT+ community, not only are modern Pride Parades hardly accurate representations of the LGBT+ community (thankfully, wider American society seems to understand that), with all of the powerful advocacy groups around now and the endless insertion of LGBT+ themes into nearly every facet of popular culture, even for those few people who don't personally know anyone from the LGBT+ community somehow, there is no chance at anyone forgetting that anyone who isn't specifically a Kinsey 0 exist at this point.

That reason can still fly in nations where one can not express one's sexuality out side of the bonds of matrimony openly regardless of where one lies on the spectrum (an adulterer or fornicator is just as condemned to die as anyone who 'lies with another man as man would lie with a woman' in any orthodox Abrahamic religious society) though it may also end with those giving said reminder to go flying off of a rooftop right afterward.

 

A more inclusive alternative might be called for at this point, a sex positivity festival where no sexuality which doesn't involve intentional direct non-consensual harm to another person (or animal) or sexual orientation is treated as debased or demeaning, covering the whole spectrum equally for the sake of equality.

That or just ignore what everyone else does with anyone else's protuberances or orifices.

Either is fair.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

If a specific problem is solved, then there is little need continually draw attention to said problem save for historical remembrance. Of course, humans have problems letting go of traditions even when they no longer serve their original societal function, even membership in problem solving organizations who have succeeded in their original aims.

What makes you believe the problems are solved?

[Cozy]

4 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

Just to avoid having you set yourself up for a seemingly obvious counter if you use that line of argumentation elsewhere, I can also point out that America was at war with the Taliban less than 20 years ago so America should occasionally bomb Afghanistan to remind them to never do it again.

Likewise, one could compare it to dousing a new house which stands where another house which was consumed by a raging inferno once stood.

I'm sorry but this is logical fallacy. You are comparing a massive act of aggression and violence, to people marching. 2+2=5? Nope... Second people still congregate, and march in remembrance of those lost on 9/11.

 

Quote

 

If a specific problem is solved, then there is little need continually draw attention to said problem save for historical remembrance. Of course, humans have problems letting go of traditions even when they no longer serve their original societal function, even membership in problem solving organizations who have succeeded in their original aims.

 

Problem solved? Really?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/28/anti-gay-hate-crimes-rise-fbi-says-and-they-likely-undercount/1582614001/

https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-fbi-statistics-show-alarming-increase-in-number-of-reported-hate-crimes

 

Dealers choice with a simple google search.

 

Secondly knowing history is kind of important so it doesn't repeat.

 

[FauxFurry]

3 minutes ago, Cozy said:

I'm sorry but this is logical fallacy. You are comparing a massive act of aggression and violence, to people marching. 2+2=5? Nope... Second people still congregate, and march in remembrance of those lost on 9/11.

 

Problem solved? Really?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/28/anti-gay-hate-crimes-rise-fbi-says-and-they-likely-undercount/1582614001/

https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-fbi-statistics-show-alarming-increase-in-number-of-reported-hate-crimes

 

Dealers choice with a simple google search.

 

Secondly knowing history is kind of important so it doesn't repeat.

 

You misunderstood the comparison here. I was comparing anti-LGBT violence in America to terrorist attacks. 

 

Also, increase in reported hate crimes does not equal an increase in hate crimes. More districts are reporting than before and people are more willing to report hate crimes or what they perceive to be hate crimes (including mistaken or fabricated incidents). 

 

[FauxFurry]

19 minutes ago, Freyadiin said:

What makes you believe the problems are solved?

The problem was a lack of equal rights under the law, not complete total societal acceptance as no group has that anywhere in the entire world.

 

Most of those increased reported Hate Crimes are not reported as having anything to do with the against the LGBT+ community but against the Black community, Jewish people or even in quite a few cases, against white people and none of the legitimate cases are being treated with any less severity under the eyes of the law so yes, that problem is solved. 

 

As long as there is more than one living thing in any social order, there will always be murder and no amount of pageantry will change that.

[FauxFurry]

1 hour ago, Cozy said:

 

How does this in anyway mean the problem is solved? Even if I were to humor your position here how does equate a solved problem? Furthermore can you provide statistical data regarding these fabrications you mentioned?

 

EDIT: Missed this,

 

 

Of course, what's your point?

It is difficult to compile hate crime statistics in general, let alone false hate crimes as all that one has in most instances is going to be a report. If the case isn't given a True Bill in a grand jury, it might just drop off the face of the earth.

 

Following the antics of Quanell X is a good way to see a few false hate crime charges being formed in real time, though. He tried to turn a deadly domestic violence incident into a hate crime because the father was a Muslim, assuming that it was an honor killing.   

It is even harder to point one to such things when certain key words turn up a set of priority search results. It could take hours to circumvent irrelevant search results even for local news sometimes.

All one can really do is go to records of proven hoaxes. 

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

 

This is missing the fact that the definition of Hate Crime has been expanded somewhat in states across the union. You might notice that many of the recorded hoaxes are not violence incidents at all but harassment either in person or through leaving around symbols which could be considered distressing. The 'It's Okay to be White' signs would likely count since they could be perceived as threatening in someway despite their being specifically aimed to be as much of a tepid statement as possible.

 

As for the last bit, I did go for the most obvious statement about the most severe form of crime, hate or otherwise, seeing as it being self evident but I suppose that I could go a bit further into it.

Said most severe crime is unaffected by Pride Parades either in the West or in nations where non-generative sexuality in general is outlawed so it doesn't actually fix anything. These days, it is a fun party for the community which provides bad optics to many of today's youth, something which could legitimately lead to trouble down the line.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/06/28/lgbt-activists-could-be-to-blame-for-falling-lgbt-acceptance/

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FauxFurry said:

The problem was a lack of equal rights under the law, not complete total societal acceptance as no group has that anywhere in the entire world.

What makes you believe that Pride isn't about fighting against those who would oppose LGBTQ+ people socially too?

[Happysparkles]

Well the good news is you don't have to participate in said events or even contribute to the community. That's OK - just be you.

I will say though..Ok…I hate to say it but just gonna say it…I being a right winged trans girl, my cringe is more at the expected idea that we have to all be liberal and support the same things or if I don’t vote for the same candidate as everyone else, I am not worthy of being their friend and thus, I’m a 'traitor'. So I can relate to your sentiment there. Whilst I do not agree with some of the typical methodology that the LGBTQ community uses, I still support their right to their own veiw and their fight. Though there is more to pride than just that. (OMG I am so gonna sound all activist like in 3...2...1...)

 

 

As for the scene, I have mixed feelings. I can say for sure a lot of the time the parade itself, like many parades, has lost touch with the roots of the parade which was a protest (I am sure this was mentioned a few times before I sent this ha).  For the most part the 50^th anniversary was only acknowledged this year since it’s a milestone since the time LGBTQ  members at Stonewall said "enough is enough" and stood up for themselves. However, it can be argued that the parade lost sight of the roots for sure but honestly, it is a rather open gathering for LGBTQ members and allies alike to be free and enjoy the fight of LGBTQ members before and after us. Have pride/show their pride?

 

 

Actually, we have plenty of reason to celebrate. A lot has been accomplished over the years for sure but the fights far from over. I don’t think anyone needs to be loud and proud about it if they don’t want to though. Some prefer to not be open and do nothing for LGBTQ rights and that’s again fine - their choice. I personally am loud and proud about being trans even if I don't fit the cookie cutter mold.  The sad thing is, there are still issues. Even I can confess this. As a part black trans woman, I fall into a rather alarming statistic of trans woman murdered for just being that. I am not gonna speculate on if the reports are talking about it now specifically to further polarize the left and the right, but it is a fact that a lot of black trans women get murdered and quite often. This is part of the ongoing fight along with a bunch of other stuff. Keep in mind btw it's not always those who hate us killing trans (imho) it is sometimes the bi-curious people who are afraid of their truth coming out.  (Pardon the trans reference but figured it hits home to me so used it).

 

 

If people think “oh you cannot be shot dead (legally) or arrested from holding hand with your same sex partner (legally) anymore”, all is good but its's not. It most certainly doesn’t mean the issues are resolved. A lot of people are stuck in old mindsets or uneducated about LGBTQ people, mind sets - take it upon themselves to do such or show bigotry towards LGBTQ members or even harm them sometimes, too. There is still an ignorance towards the LGBTQ community; there is still discrimination. The issues still persist. I mention this often but people don’t talk to each other anymore. I’ve seen this a lot these days. people either cut you off for having different views (especially political), or they try to force you to think their way instead of try to understand why others may feel a certain way. This goes for both sides. And honestly, often times that rejection will drive the rejected person further into the other (opposing) side.

 

 

Whilst, there is no convincing some, this is true,  there is always going to be a fight for equality so long as discrimination exists. Which is one of the reasons for this parade. It’s a celebration to say “We won gay marriage – but there is still much to do”. I think it’s perfectly fine to have it. And hell, LGBTQ members have every right to take a day to celebrate.