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Mods and Money!?

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Pfiffy

Pfiffy

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, winny257 said:

Do you know what professionalism is, it is a mod to create without using the tools of Bethesda!
and few are able to do that, see other games (not from Beth) there modify Professional modders!
I want by no means say thereby, that yours work is bad, it's just not professional.

Well, maybe distinguish between professional and commercial modding?

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dankmemesxd

dankmemesxd

Posted
Posted

Well, when it comes to paid modding on steam... It was a joke. Steam just wanted to make more money than support creators. I don't know if you remember, but steam got like 80 or 90% of the mod price and the rest went to the author. Also do not forget that the mods there were copied/stolen from other sites.

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t.ara

t.ara

Posted
Posted

Me, I read this discussion between Pfiffy and Komotor again and my overall "solution" is the following:

 

ALL the modders/- and also those people !!! , who take care of mods, which can be ported to skyrim´s SE version have their right to decide themselves, if they want to be sponsored, or not.

It´s fairly their right to have and hold on their free will, and should not be discussed-it´s not fair to discuss a person, if (s)he want to create a patreon-account for getting sponsored.

The question, if a port of a mod is wanted or not, has to be verified by the mod-porter. If a mod is going to be ported, it takes also lot of time and lot of things have to be changed. If the mod is free for SE, so the mod can be ported without any problems. BUT THIS SORT OF WORK HAS NEVER TO BE BEHIND A PAYWALL !!!!

 

If komotor don´t like to see any of his work inside of skyrim SE, and if he wants to protect his artwork, all the work of him has to be left untouched! - Same is for other authors. This has 100% to be respected.

 

Pfiffy has my personal respect, because I would never try to port a mod into SE. For myself, it would be a terrible job to do so- I will never play with skyrim se !!

Skyrim SE makes things for modding again to be complicated (best regards to bethesda, more bad situation for modding, than before) and is not worth to switch to (my absolute opinion).

 

The work that Pfiffy did, is not more bad or "easy" or <<dumb-ass>>, than all other work. As an artist I can only be happy for the people who want to play my stuff on skyrim SE. And so I can give the permission or I let it.

 

I can understand, that some modders/authors rely/depend on some income and want to become honored by that way. I regret, if my foregoing comments were sounding harsh and I don´t like to hurt anyone´s proud.

Naturally is this theme very sensitive for all of us (because we do stuck in very different life-style-situations!!!),  especially if an income goes to become regular and is more than welcomed or going to be usual, and specially this has happened when mods go to be "legendary" and last over years, which we do have in the case of those "MAJOR-MODS" of KIMY and KOMOTOR.  

Some modder´s hands (/art-work)  will always "carry" (rely/depend) somehow on other´s, who maybe have their donate-accounts. It´s life !!-And if we can´t accept this, we should not be using this platform.

It´s also far impossible to want to have "rights" on something, that is build up on other stuff and same way working inside of other stuff.

 

We can at least share the stuff, or let it. If it is shared, we have to count with the most bad situation:...., that we are not respected and that the new created stuff gets lost onto unknown pages and is perhaps in parts being used one day by other people and games, who will make lot of money with it. 

 

I´ll let it go how it is now and hope you will not get into troubles with each other anymore - my weekend should become a productive time, also for some new modding-stuff...

 

cheers!?

 

 

 

 

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dagobaking

dagobaking

Posted
Posted
On 6/12/2018 at 1:24 PM, Ernest Lemmingway said:

The only paid mods I'm opposed to are the ones that pay to the company that produced the game. They already got their money and don't deserve a single penny more.

This x 1000.

 

The companies are already hugely profitable and are constantly trying to find ways to take more. DLC costs. Deliberately delaying sequel releases. "Microtransactions."  Making money off of third party mods. Lame.

 

On the other hand, I think that individual modders should be able to charge whatever they want and in whatever way they want. They will be subject to the same principles as anyone else. If they charge too much, nobody buys. And if they charge at all, now customers have a legitimate reason to complain if it doesn't work. So, they have to work harder to meet that expectation.

 

I think that Patreon and "early release for donors" is a good compromise. It allows many people to benefit from the additional work modders can do when they are paid.

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KoolHndLuke

KoolHndLuke

Posted
Posted

 You know, when I was a kid and played with friends in my neighborhood there was always this one kid in the group of us that was a little spoiled momma's boy that we put up with because he always had such neat toys. I remember that he would leverage his toys against us to ensure we picked him to be on a team or even let him win some games once in awhile. The minute that he felt like he wasn't being paid enough attention or getting his way, he would threaten to grab his toys and go home. The other kids would get anxious and beg him not to because they really liked playing with his toys. I- on the other hand- would tell him if that was what he wanted, then he should take his fucking toys and go.....and not to ever think about coming back and playing with us again. He would think about this for a second, stop his whining and threatening and just start playing with us again. If he did leave with his toys, we would think of other ways to have fun and find other toys to play with. Soon his toy's absence was forgotten.

 

Take from that what you will.:wink:

 

 

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Halstrom

Halstrom

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, winny257 said:

Do you know what professionalism is, it is a mod to create without using the tools of Bethesda!
and few are able to do that, see other games (not from Beth) there modify Professional modders!
I want by no means say thereby, that yours work is bad, it's just not professional.

So If I use FO4Edit its Professional but if I use the Creation Kit its not?

10 hours ago, bishlapped said:

You situation is the EXACT reason Steam had to pull the plug on it's initial paid modding program. So many mods don't belong solely to one person or group. Many people have rights to resources in so many other people's mods.

 

No the reason is thousands of users outvoting hundreds of modders had a big "want it all for free" spit and dictated to Steam that modders were not allowed to sell content on Steam and shut it down forcing modders to do the same thing using Paytron instead and some just stopped modding.

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dagobaking

dagobaking

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

What I mean is it made no difference to me whether his parents bought him those toys or he had worked tirelessly to make them. It was entirely about how he used them to try and get his way instead of just sharing with the others and having fun.

 

But, who are you claiming is doing that in this context?

 

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Vader666

Vader666

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, winny257 said:

it is a mod to create without using the tools of Bethesda!

Wait there are actual tools for modding ?!

I always just put random patterns of "0" and "1" in a .txt file and hope that the result is what i've aimed for.

 

 

But seriously, i don't get why people debate about that whole topic over and over again.

If authors of whatever stuff want to  share their work for free, its rightfully their decision.

If authors of whatever stuff want to get paid in any way, its rightfully their decision.

If the stuff you did contains work of other authors you'll need to get permission for anything you want to do with that stuff.

If you think you should get anything you want for free because... honestly why do people think they should get everything they want for free ? 

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KoolHndLuke

KoolHndLuke

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Vader666 said:

honestly why do people think they should get everything they want for free ? 

Because most people are notoriously cheap. I don't mind paying for a mod, I just worry that if more and more people go that route that the community will share less and less freely because they don't want someone else to profit from their work. Everything will become more of a business and more like transactions than just gamers sharing and enjoying mods together.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

OMG, I did not know that EMACS can be used for Papyrus. So, not a fan of N++....mostly because I can't figure out why the papyrus plugin causes an instant crash with usless event log info.

But EMACs. Dam....I recall early(er) days of Linux before Knoppix. Using EMACs in the console to configure XFree86.

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Vader666 said:

If you think you should get anything you want for free because... honestly why do people think they should get everything they want for free ? 

Because the authors that sell their stuff use everything they need for free. Do you think script extenders, frameworks and such grow on trees? It's an inherently unfair situation because a few profit from the whole community.

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dagobaking

dagobaking

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Because most people are notoriously cheap. I don't mind paying for a mod, I just worry that if more and more people go that route that the community will share less and less freely because they don't want someone else to profit from their work. Everything will become more of a business and more like transactions than just gamers sharing and enjoying mods together.

The problem with this is that it's not now and never has been gamers sharing and enjoying mods together. It's a whole bunch of people receiving something for free and a relatively small group making the entire sacrifice.

 

Real community sharing would involve everyone pitching in money that they earned doing whatever it is with their time that is valuable to someone.

5 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Because the authors that sell their stuff use everything they need for free. Do you think script extenders, frameworks and such grow on trees? It's an inherently unfair situation because a few profit from the whole community.

I think most mod authors would be happy to encourage users to also pay whatever the author of their dependencies wants. Similar to how many mod authors encourage users to donate to LL.

 

Just like anything else, if a script extender or other dependency mod wanted something unreasonable, that would deter others from relying on them to begin with.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

The problem with this is that it's not now and never has been gamers sharing and enjoying mods together. It's a whole bunch of people receiving something for free and a relatively small group making the entire sacrifice.

 

Real community sharing would involve everyone pitching in money that they earned doing whatever it is with their time that is valuable to someone.

I think most mod authors would be happy to encourage users to also pay whatever the author of their dependencies wants. Similar to how many mod authors encourage users to donate to LL.

 

Just like anything else, if a script extender or other dependency mod wanted something unreasonable, that would deter others from relying on them to begin with.

I don't know if I agree with the term "sacrifice" here. 1st, I think only a small percentage of modders have the skill, talent and desire to create the mods we all love. Look at Nexus 50plus thousand mods of shit with a few hundred or so being worth the download. Most of which all come from the same small pool of authors. While sacrifice may be a term they might apply here and there, I doubt it's an overall term they'd use to describe the hobby they have or had loved. Sharing isn't without it's rewards you know. Up until recently, it wasn't about money. But some of those modders got some serious rep. Being seriously recognized for doing something isn't all bad. Some even launched into professional careers in the gaming industry.

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dagobaking said:

I think most mod authors would be happy to encourage users to also pay whatever the author of their dependencies wants. Similar to how many mod authors encourage users to donate to LL.

 

Just like anything else, if a script extender or other dependency mod wanted something unreasonable, that would deter others from relying on them to begin with.

How extraordinarily generous.

 

The amount of mods you need to pay for may become unsustainable in the near feature. Instead of a select few sitting at the end of the chain - those that use things that are provided to them for free but want money for their time - I'm pretty sure that eventually everyone wants to be compensated for their time. Or people with the necessary skills and knowledge might decide that modding isn't worth it anymore because it's all about making mad dosh now instead of a community coming together. So at the end you'll have a bunch of people that are in it for the money and not for modding and I'm pretty sure this won't play out well for the people that are able to make money now just because the whole foundation for complex mods was already laid down for free.

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